LACONIA Tax Increases

[kjkam]

Looks like the property valuations have gone up from 15-35% from 2016 to 2017, wonder what 2018 has in store. What is the city doing with all that extra cash?

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by kjkam

Looks like the property valuations have gone up from 15-35% from 2016 to 2017, wonder what 2018 has in store. What is the city doing with all that extra cash?

My 2nd half tax bill in Laconia actually went down slightly.

[TiltonBB]

My assessed value on a Laconia waterfront property went up about 21%. The tax rate in Laconia declined from $22.20 in 2015 and 2016 to 21.03 in 2017. The net result was still an increase of several thousand dollars per year in real estate taxes on this one property.

The assessors office said that they were aware that waterfront sales amounts were substantially higher than what the city had them assessed for so they made the changes. Non waterfront values did not change much at all.

They use a process called equalization. Equalization is a process carried out annually by Municipal Assessing Jurisdictions and the New Hampshire Department of Revenue Administration which ensures that common property tax burdens are apportioned fairly and equitably among taxpayers.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

My assessed value on a Laconia waterfront property went up about 21%. The tax rate in Laconia declined from $22.20 in 2015 and 2016 to 21.03 in 2017. The net result was still an increase of several thousand dollars per year in real estate taxes on this one property.

The assessors office said that they were aware that waterfront sales amounts were substantially higher than what the city had them assessed for so they made the changes. Non waterfront values did not change much at all.

They use a process called equalization. Equalization is a process carried out annually by Municipal Assessing Jurisdictions and the New Hampshire Department of Revenue Administration which ensures that common property tax burdens are apportioned fairly and equitably among taxpayers.

So you became more equal than everyone else. I don't know how we ended up with property taxes for local government. A head tax would be more fair and assure everyone had skin in the game.

[fatlazyless]

Here's what seems like a good way for Laconia to be spending: 4.3-mil dollars; Oct 2016 to May 2017 rebuild project, Lakeside Ave infrastructure improvement; the new and improved Lakeside Ave is now looking very good .... your Laconia tax money was very well spent here!

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...vement-project

Would be nice for Weirs Beach to be a year 'round venue, maybe with a go-to play facility like an indoor water park. Some facility similar to the www.kahunalaguna.com water park up in North Conway. Maybe that corner lot that used to be home to a volcano, summer outdoor water park could be a good location?

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Here's what seems like a good way for Laconia to be spending: 4.3-mil dollars; Oct 2016 to May 2017 rebuild project, Lakeside Ave infrastructure improvement; the new and improved Lakeside Ave is now looking very good .... your Laconia tax money was very well spent here!

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...vement-project

Would be nice for Weirs Beach to be a year 'round venue, maybe with a go-to play facility like an indoor water park. Some facility similar to the www.kahunalaguna.com water park up in North Conway. Maybe that corner lot that used to be home to a volcano, summer outdoor water park could be a good location?

You're day dreaming again.

[Water Camper]

My assessed value in Laconia went up by $11,200, but my December tax bill went down by $36.

Now our assessed value here in Pembroke went up by $200, but our December tax bill went up by $900.

Go figure,
Bill

[kjkam]

The gripe I've always had with the assessments is that a property on a private road, with no city services (trash pickup, plowing, road maintenance) is valued by the assessors office same as properties with town services. Wouldn't it make sense that a property that has to pay for those services in addition to the standard tax bill be worth less than ones that didn't? This is true when it comes to selling the property, but not is the eyes of the assessor....

[tis]

Again, don't forget the first tax bill that you get in June is half of what the total tax was from the year before. It is estimated. So when the actual tax rates come out the amount you still owe for the year(after what you paid in June) is on that bill.

[8gv]

Originally Posted by kjkam

The gripe I've always had with the assessments is that a property on a private road, with no city services (trash pickup, plowing, road maintenance) is valued by the assessors office same as properties with town services. Wouldn't it make sense that a property that has to pay for those services in addition to the standard tax bill be worth less than ones that didn't? This is true when it comes to selling the property, but not is the eyes of the assessor....

In South Down / Long Bay the city doesn’t maintain or plow the roads or provide trash pick up.

I don’t see any adjustment downward in our taxes for that either.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by 8gv

In South Down / Long Bay the city doesn’t maintain or plow the roads or provide trash pick up.

I don’t see any adjustment downward in our taxes for that either.

You are correct and there is also no regular police patrols (obviously if the are called or dispatched through 911 they respond)in SD/LB any longer but if I can see the lake from my window although I have no direct access my rate is higher. The tax structure in Laconia is completely hap hazzard and random.

[trackeer]

LMAO,

Was wondering when someone would post comments about the thievery Laconia just pulled off.

We own in Pickerel Cove, sure it's waterfront but limited access to the BIG lake as well were on a private road, with little to no city contribution. Was a major undertaking and over 2 years for the City to fix the dilapidated city road we pass to get to our road.

I'd say many of us got screwed, 232 to 298 want to see the city drop it that much in less than 1/2 year.

Anyway, maybe I missed the assessment notification they surely sent out prior to raising property values, excessively.

[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by kjkam

The gripe I've always had with the assessments is that a property on a private road, with no city services (trash pickup, plowing, road maintenance) is valued by the assessors office same as properties with town services. Wouldn't it make sense that a property that has to pay for those services in addition to the standard tax bill be worth less than ones that didn't? This is true when it comes to selling the property, but not is the eyes of the assessor....

Who then pays the town to plow & maintain the street your driveway connects to?

[Woodsy]

There are lots of "private" streets that the city has no responsibility for. This includes most of the condo developments.

The tax rate went down because the assessed values went up.... pretty simple!

Woodsy

[garysanfran]

Why is the cost of running a town connected to the value of the residences?

If a property's value increases, the cost of running the town doesn't go up. I see Meredith is spending their windfall on a new DPW building. That is certainly going to enhance my life.

[tummyman]

Most lakefront owners get screwed, as prices keep moving up. If you don't sell your property, you still get hit. However, the place to express your issues and concerns is at the Board of Select person's or what ever your town calls them. All that is going on is that more taxes are being paid by lakefront owners than others, and the lakefront people by and large cannot vote for anything as many are non residents. After all, they spend the money on wish list items because they can...... Lots of waste. But they respond to the voters and screw others.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by kjkam

The gripe I've always had with the assessments is that a property on a private road, with no city services (trash pickup, plowing, road maintenance) is valued by the assessors office same as properties with town services. Wouldn't it make sense that a property that has to pay for those services in addition to the standard tax bill be worth less than ones that didn't? This is true when it comes to selling the property, but not is the eyes of the assessor....

The assessed value has nothing to do with what town services you use and what town services are, or are not, provided to you. The value is based on only one thing: What they feel your house is worth if you were to sell it. If you feel your house is worth less than what the town has it assessed for then by all means appeal your assessment. If there are other homes that you can cite that would provide examples of why the value placed on your home is incorrect you may win.

To answer another post: There was no advance notice of the value change from Laconia. I thought that they would or should send something out in advance but that did not happen.

[kjkam]

If you look at the assessments around lagua bay there are some significant discrepancies. It really comes down to the have and have nots. Those that have a vote seemed to have faired better than those that don’t have a vote (or those areas that are previewed to have the least voting residents), for the most part. And if the city is just now figuring that their assessment of waterfront property was 30% too low, who was asleep at the switch on that? And remember they didn’t change the assessment on the structures for the most part, just the land. Look at real estate comps, they didn’t go up by 30% this year.
And yes the value of my property is tied to the amount of services that are received from the city, because in addition to all the maintenance, trash, snow removal the taxes are still the same as others, so someone looking to purchase the property has to factor in all those costs

[nhcatrider]

Originally Posted by Water Camper

My assessed value in Laconia went up by $11,200, but my December tax bill went down by $36.

Now our assessed value here in Pembroke went up by $200, but our December tax bill went up by $900.

Go figure,
Bill

Thank the Pembroke schools for that tax hike. $1 million short due mostly to lower enrollment in the high school. The next few budget meetings are going to be uglier and uglier.

[greeleyhill]

Here are some helpful links to see how your assessed value may have differed from say, your neighbors and others in Laconia. Some increases were very large while others actually went down slightly. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason - it all seems arbitrary to me especially when I compare land value and improvement value. The old to new report shows the increase year over year.

https://www.laconianh.gov/160/Assessing

...and this link gives you more detail on your assessed value but you can also look up others if you have the address:

http://gis.vgsi.com/laconianh/Search.aspx

You may be inspired to file for an abatement but if any of their information is inaccurate (which much of it will be) then they can reassess you property for an even higher value (for example, if the square footage or acreage reported is less than what it actually is).

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

Why is the cost of running a town connected to the value of the residences?

If a property's value increases, the cost of running the town doesn't go up. I see Meredith is spending their windfall on a new DPW building. That is certainly going to enhance my life.

The cost of running the town has no connection to the values of the residences or services individual residents receive. The value of the residences IS associated with the assumed ability to pay tax (people who can afford an expensive house can afford to pay a higher portion of the taxes) and tax is apportioned on THAT basis.

You can argue for and against the current form of tax apportionment just as you can argue for and against about any form of tax; sales, income, fees, business, etc. At some point the elected legislature decided how to apportion taxes to get the bills paid and THAT is how it works in NH.

I personally think the reasoning about ability to pay tax relating to the value of your property is pretty fair. In addition, I like to keep the taxes close at hand, in the town, where you have much more power to impact spending decisions. Most other forms of taxes end up being collected by the state which is far less accountable to individual citizens and keeps escalating spending as long as they already have their hands in your pocket. Further, lobbyists can lobby the state to spend easier. It is pretty impractical to lobby individual towns to spend money for a cause. Since the state doesn't have a spigot of money, they have to say no to lobbyists.

Finally, there is the history of almost every other state. They all bought into income and sales taxes to provide relief from property taxes. Over time, the property taxes increased again. Now they have it all, income, sales, and property taxes and an overall bigger spending/tax bill.

Again, this is my opinion. Your milage may vary.

[trackeer]

As usual there is lot's of pros and cons about taxation.
I think it was a politically charged subject back in the early day's in simpler times.
Paying Taxes and receiving something for the money gives one the feeling they have tangible interest in their payments.
We fought long and hard to get the City of Laconia to fix Hilliard Road as it was literally falling apart, they removed the pavement and made it dirt, lol.
This is the same City that post signs around town "Beware of Potholes" because they can't afford to fix the roads.
We own in the fine city of Laconia, but we have no voting rights, we're Nashua residents, so much for our voice in the process.
Simply put, it's amazing a small city with a wealth of Taxation around several Bodies of water has No money.
For those who have interest there is a property valuation comparison at the Assessors area of the Cities Web-Site, around Pickerel Cove most of the Homes have property values increase between 50K and 114K the average being around 60K.
Sadly some folks got hit pretty hard, I'm sure based on the wild fluctuations in Property Values based on a flurry of Real-Estate sales over the past few years. Another surprising thing is there is no cap, sure the tax rate didn't increase but they sure took a uptick market and shoved it up folks assess.
Laconia is a pathetic city, selling is now more about just getting out of dodge than paying the extra grand in taxes.

[garysanfran]

"The cost of running the town has no connection to the values of the residences or services individual residents receive. The value of the residences IS associated with the assumed ability to pay tax (people who can afford an expensive house can afford to pay a higher portion of the taxes) and tax is apportioned on THAT basis."

Not necessarily true. I have seen many neighbors who can no longer afford their property tax and have had to sell their property and move. You can't pay your taxes with equity, unless you go into debt by borrowing against it. Lots of people are paper rich and cash-flow poor.

[ITD]

The assessed value only decides what percentage of the amount of money the town decided to spend you have to pay. Increases in your assessment due to market improving generally doesn't increase your taxes UNLESS for some reason your property increases more in value than others. The increase in your taxes is due to the town spending more money. This could be town elected officials spending more money or it's decided by town meeting depending on where you live. Politicians love it when people blame increasing property values for their deeds, it lets them off the hook. Don't be fooled.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

...

Not necessarily true. I have seen many neighbors who can no longer afford their property tax and have had to sell their property and move. You can't pay your taxes with equity, unless you go into debt by borrowing against it. Lots of people are paper rich and cash-flow poor.

Yes, they will sell, pocket a nice profit and move to a house they CAN afford the taxes on. I have friends who did exactly that. I did exactly that as well. The house sale funded my retirement. My friends are happy and I am happy.

Someone else who CAN afford to pay the taxes AND the higher value to purchase the house will buy the house.

Again, I'm not saying it's a perfect tax structure but it is the one we have lived with for quite a while. Anyone that owns property should know that they have to pay property tax and that tax is likely to grow over time. If you are lucky enough to have a valuable (high tax) property that doesn't excuse your responsibility for paying taxes on it any more than you having to repair the roof or paint it or put a new septic system in. It's a known cost of ownership and all the other costs increase over time as well.

[FlyingScot]

If you're worried about your lake tax bill know, keep your fingers crossed, and write to your Congressmen to urge him to vote NO on the current Republican tax plan. if it passes, property taxes will no longer be fully deductible on your federal return.

The details are still being hammered out, but most reports say that only the first $10,000 will be deductible. So if your primary residence has $10,000 or more in taxes, and your lake house has another $10,000, you will lose $10,000 in deductions. It will have the same cash impact as your lake taxes increasing by $3,300 (assuming a 33% tax bracket).

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by kjkam

Looks like the property valuations have gone up from 15-35% from 2016 to 2017, wonder what 2018 has in store. What is the city doing with all that extra cash?

Interesting question as to extra cash. I once had a former selectman ask me the same question when Alton valuations had gone up. As with most taxpayers, he did not understand the basic concept of how it works. No extra cash would be collected due only to increased valuations!

After a spending budget is passed by a town meeting or city council, only that approved $$ amount minus other expected revenues can be collected by property tax. (There is a minor "overlay" amount added to hedge for abatement's and deadbeats).

If the net valuation (sum of all valuations) goes up then the tax rate goes down so that only the approved amount is collected. Individual assessments serve only to divide up the overall cost of running the town or city. It is you against your neighbors once the budget is approved.

The focus on limiting property taxes needs to be on limiting the approved budgets. That involves things like getting involved and also voting.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by PeterG

If you're worried about your lake tax bill know, keep your fingers crossed, and write to your Congressmen to urge him to vote NO on the current Republican tax plan. if it passes, property taxes will no longer be fully deductible on your federal return.

The details are still being hammered out, but most reports say that only the first $10,000 will be deductible. So if your primary residence has $10,000 or more in taxes, and your lake house has another $10,000, you will lose $10,000 in deductions. It will have the same cash impact as your lake taxes increasing by $3,300 (assuming a 33% tax bracket).

When you get to a certain point your deductions go away now, just saying.

[trackeer]

Regardless if the all things remain the same and they re-evaluate properties the end result is a higher tax bill if the property values increase, regardless if the town spends or intends to spend the money to be collected.
The only thing they can say, is, See we didn't raise the Tax Rate, but did one better and re-evaluated the property values to reflect recent sales, 25-35 percent is a pretty big hit if your property happens to be one of those they decided to increase.
The long and short of it, Laconia jammed the taxpayers that have the least over all impact on the cities services, Schools etc., and better those who live in Association Controlled Properties, talk about your cake and ice-cream., and even better most aren't voting residents.......

[rsmlp]

Originally Posted by PeterG

If you're worried about your lake tax bill know, keep your fingers crossed, and write to your Congressmen to urge him to vote NO on the current Republican tax plan. if it passes, property taxes will no longer be fully deductible on your federal return.

The details are still being hammered out, but most reports say that only the first $10,000 will be deductible. So if your primary residence has $10,000 or more in taxes, and your lake house has another $10,000, you will lose $10,000 in deductions. It will have the same cash impact as your lake taxes increasing by $3,300 (assuming a 33% tax bracket).

This response is misleading. The counter point is that marginal tax rates will go DOWN so that your overall tax bill will be lower. The people is really whacks are from high income tax states-certainly NOT NH.

[Woodsy]

Trackeer.....

Laconia didn't jam anyone.... The real estate market for the lake has low inventory and high demand, especially for the waterfront homes.

If you want to blame somebody for an increase in your assessment... blame the flatlander out of state buyer who is willing to pay the 20%-30% premium over and above the assessed value to own waterfront property. It is not people working and living in Laconia that are buying these houses.

Woodsy

[rsmlp]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Trackeer.....

Laconia didn't jam anyone.... The real estate market for the lake has low inventory and high demand, especially for the waterfront homes.

If you want to blame somebody for an increase in your assessment... blame the flatlander out of state buyer who is willing to pay the 20%-30% premium over and above the assessed value to own waterfront property. It is not people working and living in Laconia that are buying these houses.

Woodsy

Assessed value does not necessarily equal MARKET value. And anyways Lakes Region RE hasn't been an easy mover recently from what my RE friends say.

[Woodsy]

RSMLP...

Sorry if my post was unclear...

You are right.... assessed value doesn't equal market value. But the post that started this was about an increase of 15%-35%+ jump of assessed value. (with waterfront homes taking the bigger percentage of the hit). The only reason the assessed value jumped is because the waterfront homes that have sold (market is tight, high demand and not a lot for sale), have consistently sold for 20%-30% higher than what they were assessed for.


Woodsy

[kjkam]

Perfect example of the tom foolery going on

Barton's Motel, 4.2 acres of water front property had it's assesment just for the value of the property go down from $726k to $531K.

Margate hotel, 4.8 acres assessed value of just the property again went down from $1.3M to $1M

How are those properties valued at $126k to$208K per acre, but residential property on the other side of the lake, had their valuations increase as much as 42% with an average value of $1.5M per acre of land?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

This response is misleading. The counter point is that marginal tax rates will go DOWN so that your overall tax bill will be lower. The people is really whacks are from high income tax states-certainly NOT NH.

My post is not misleading, and it is critical to the property tax discussion--over 30% of NH filers claim the property tax deduction.

It is true that some people will see their marginal rates go down as the brackets are reduced, but others will see their marginal rates go up. See link below to find out where you stand.

The details are still being hashed out to reconcile House and Senate plans, but all sides agree that many people, especially those with high salaries and high property taxes, will see their payments to the IRS increase.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tax-b...arison-2017-11

[Woodsy]

Commercial vs. Residential.... 2 totally different things! You need to compare apples to apples.

Woodsy

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by kjkam

Perfect example of the tom foolery going on

Barton's Motel, 4.2 acres of water front property had it's assesment just for the value of the property go down from $726k to $531K.

Margate hotel, 4.8 acres assessed value of just the property again went down from $1.3M to $1M

How are those properties valued at $126k to$208K per acre, but residential property on the other side of the lake, had their valuations increase as much as 42% with an average value of $1.5M per acre of land?

For many reasons you cannot compare residential to commercial for assessed values. Much of the assessed commercial value is determined by zoning and permitted use of the property, it is not based solely on size of the land and the structures on it.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

Assessed value does not necessarily equal MARKET value. And anyways Lakes Region RE hasn't been an easy mover recently from what my RE friends say.

Lakes region waterfront RE has been strong lately. If you're not on the water then it's not quite as good.
It just goes to show that the top earners are still going strong and will only get stronger under this administration. The gap continues to get wider between middle class and the very rich.

[kjkam]

The land values of anyone on pagus bay on a residential road saw in increase of 41.9% across the board, only exceptions
Wiers Boulevard, residential saw a 6-10% increase (most were 6.2%)
Union Ave Residential (not many) still got the 41.9% increase

The big winners, Commercial land values took some big hits (most also saw reductions in the value of the improvements as well)
Margate 76 Lake St -24%
Margate 84 Lake St -9%
Bartons -27%
Lazy E -10%
Naswa -31%
Lakehouse Cottages -28%
Old Gas Station/ motel next to bridge -33%

Commercial seems to have some variability, where residential was a flat 41.9% across the board

[DickR]

Originally Posted by kjkam

......
How are those properties valued at $126k to$208K per acre, but residential property on the other side of the lake, had their valuations increase as much as 42% with an average value of $1.5M per acre of land?

For residential waterfront property, the biggest bite comes just from having that lake frontage. There is another bump from extra frontage (eg. 150' vs 100') or from extra land area, but on a per-acre basis that bump divides out to be less. Thus larger residential parcels typically would be seen as having a lower per-acre assessment than smaller ones. Just being on the lake is most important to those with the ability to buy such a property.

A good number of long-time lakefront property owners couldn't afford to buy their own properties at today's prices. The idea that the value of a property reflects ability to pay a tax on it is severely flawed. While it may be somewhat true at the time of purchase, it becomes less so as time passes. Even just retiring on a fixed income changes that. Inheriting a property bought long ago by parents and trying to keep it in the family can be rather difficult. Since high valuations of lakefront property are driven by sales to those who want it and can afford to pay, your own property tax is thus one you pay on the basis of someone else's buying power, not your own. If we were starting over in deciding how to assess taxes, and you proposed paying your share according to how much buying power someone else had, you'd be laughed out of the room.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by PeterG

If you're worried about your lake tax bill know, keep your fingers crossed, and write to your Congressmen to urge him to vote NO on the current Republican tax plan. if it passes, property taxes will no longer be fully deductible on your federal return.

The details are still being hammered out, but most reports say that only the first $10,000 will be deductible. So if your primary residence has $10,000 or more in taxes, and your lake house has another $10,000, you will lose $10,000 in deductions. It will have the same cash impact as your lake taxes increasing by $3,300 (assuming a 33% tax bracket).

While this may be true I don't like the concept of capping deductions of any local state taxes being paid...as this results in double taxation. If you look at this nationally, NH represents a very small percentage of the population and also has if not the highest, one of the highest property tax rates in the country. I give the congress credit for doing their best to target tax cuts where they will do the most good, but no plan is perfect either.

Furthermore - it's quite possible that this turns into a wash - while you may not be able to write off as much property tax, the tax relief elsewhere may offset that and then some. As you say the devil is in the details.

[trackeer]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Trackeer.....

Laconia didn't jam anyone.... The real estate market for the lake has low inventory and high demand, especially for the waterfront homes.

If you want to blame somebody for an increase in your assessment... blame the flatlander out of state buyer who is willing to pay the 20%-30% premium over and above the assessed value to own waterfront property. It is not people working and living in Laconia that are buying these houses.

Woodsy

Ha!!!
I blame no one for the property value increase, I simply state that the City essentially did a money grab based on a unsustainable real-estate market. This is a City that operates apparently Hand to Mouth, I have had many conversations with the cities head of Roads etc., his comments leave me to believe there is no money for him to operate his department properly.
As for flatlanders etc., that is a story older than my time here in NH, a second HA!!!! yes I didn't expect Laconites to be buying Lake Front in Laconia, thankfully for the Flatlanders the Laconia folks have them to help support their obviously financial screwed up City.

[Major]

Originally Posted by trackeer

Ha!!!
I blame no one for the property value increase, I simply state that the City essentially did a money grab based on a unsustainable real-estate market. This is a City that operates apparently Hand to Mouth, I have had many conversations with the cities head of Roads etc., his comments leave me to believe there is no money for him to operate his department properly.
As for flatlanders etc., that is a story older than my time here in NH, a second HA!!!! yes I didn't expect Laconites to be buying Lake Front in Laconia, thankfully for the Flatlanders the Laconia folks have them to help support their obviously financial screwed up City.

I blame the City Council and the Laconia Planning Board. For better or worse, Laconia has decided to pursue federal tax dollars through building section 8 housing. The people who take advantage of this type of housing require services and the infrastructure needed to address the issues they cause. We built a palace at the County Complex on North Main Street ($8,000,000) to help address these issues, after building palaces for the fire department, the middle school and the police station. We are spending $17,000,000 on the Colonial theater. For what, for the section 8 people who live downtown? I doubt they are interested in the theater.

Laconia would have been better served by following Meredith's model and by not investing in section 8 housing. You get what you subsidize.

I grew up in Laconia, and unfortunately regret building our home there.

[fatlazyless]

NH tax factoid:

1937

Did you know that in 1937, 80-years ago, the New Hampshire legislature came close to passing a 3% state income tax, and a 2% state sales tax, but it failed to pass the vote.

May God bless our local property tax, and live free or die, buddy!

Back in 1937, the legislative thinking was a property tax gets a lot of out-of-state folks who own vacation homes to help pay for local government.

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by Major

I blame the City Council and the Laconia Planning Board. For better or worse, Laconia has decided to pursue federal tax dollars through building section 8 housing. The people who take advantage of this type of housing require services and the infrastructure needed to address the issues they cause. We built a palace at the County Complex on North Main Street ($8,000,000) to help address these issues, after building palaces for the fire department, the middle school and the police station. We are spending $17,000,000 on the Colonial theater. For what, for the section 8 people who live downtown? I doubt they are interested in the theater.

Laconia would have been better served by following Meredith's model and by not investing in section 8 housing. You get what you subsidize.

I grew up in Laconia, and unfortunately regret building our home there.

....and over $400k for the WOW Trail to date.

[trackeer]

Originally Posted by Major

I blame the City Council and the Laconia Planning Board. For better or worse, Laconia has decided to pursue federal tax dollars through building section 8 housing. The people who take advantage of this type of housing require services and the infrastructure needed to address the issues they cause. We built a palace at the County Complex on North Main Street ($8,000,000) to help address these issues, after building palaces for the fire department, the middle school and the police station. We are spending $17,000,000 on the Colonial theater. For what, for the section 8 people who live downtown? I doubt they are interested in the theater.

Laconia would have been better served by following Meredith's model and by not investing in section 8 housing. You get what you subsidize.

I grew up in Laconia, and unfortunately regret building our home there.

Let me be clear, I am NOT advocating all folks from Laconia are the dredge we see in Downtown, I've been at the lake for the better part of 30 Years and in NH almost my whole life and have many friends in Laconia.
My conversations with folks at the City clearly indicates to me the lack of cohesive management, a PT Mayor and City Administrator who seems impossible to connect with, at least the Cities Road person makes himself available even if the conversation is almost pointless.
Like you I am so sorry I purchased my little home in Pickerel Cove, yes I did say little, 900sf of living space, hardly Governors Island property and now a tax bill of 6600 bucks a year on a private road.
Perhaps it's time those who receive the least from the city consider the proposition suggested sometime back, The Weirs in NH, or maybe move my property line over a mile or so and be in Meredith.
You are absolutely correct, the Theater by the way I just discovered the place this year, had never been over there, very nice, yep but can't afford to fix the cities streets, Laconia is a Joke....

[trackeer]

Originally Posted by Major

I blame the City Council and the Laconia Planning Board. For better or worse, Laconia has decided to pursue federal tax dollars through building section 8 housing. The people who take advantage of this type of housing require services and the infrastructure needed to address the issues they cause. We built a palace at the County Complex on North Main Street ($8,000,000) to help address these issues, after building palaces for the fire department, the middle school and the police station. We are spending $17,000,000 on the Colonial theater. For what, for the section 8 people who live downtown? I doubt they are interested in the theater.

Laconia would have been better served by following Meredith's model and by not investing in section 8 housing. You get what you subsidize.

I grew up in Laconia, and unfortunately regret building our home there.

BTW, from one Army member to another, Thank You!!!!

[kjkam]

Does anybody remember sometime in the 90s about the north side of Pagus Bay and Wiers Beach forming their own town?

[Major]

Originally Posted by trackeer

BTW, from one Army member to another, Thank You!!!!

Same to you trackeer! When I was a kid (13-15), I used to take my 14 foot Glastron with a giant (oversized) 40 horse Johnson motor to Pickerel Cove to waterski when Paugus Bay was too rough. The boat could barely fit through the culvert.

Obviously, most residents of Laconia are good, hardworking people. However, as you recognize, there is an element downtown that detracts from the City's ability to attract businesses. Presently, "there are 14 low income housing apartment complexes which contain 619 affordable apartments for rent in Laconia." (affordablehousingonline.com) My wife, who isn't timid, called me the other day from Church Street. She was picking up a prescription for her mother from Genesis, and was being followed by a tweaker with a backpack. She was genuinely scared, and called me just in case. Unfortunately, that is all too common an experience downtown.

And jetskier, I am glad you mentioned the WOW trail. I read in the Daily Sun about an incident (some sort of crime, robbery maybe) in which the perpetrator got away on the WOW trail. That is what our $400,000 paid for!

We need a comprehensive plan to eliminate section 8 housing from downtown in an effort to attract businesses. Unfortunately, I am afraid improvement is impossible until this happens.

[Woodsy]

Trackeer....

How do you figure it was a "money grab" by the city? The state law indicates at what percentage of valuation a city or town must maintain. The city has no control over the real estate market nor do they have any influence on the contractor Vision Appraisal and the values they come up with. If your property appraised 15%-40% higher... that's because some of your neighbors sold out and cashed out. Vision has to have the comps to back up their appraisals. You can always file for an abatement if you feel its appraised too high.

It doesn't matter if you believe the real estate market to be sustainable or not. It traditionally rises & falls in a cycle. The corresponding appraisals will also rise & fall accordingly (although there is a year or two lag time). The City will raise and lower the tax rate as the cycle dictates. The current tax rate has dropped...

I am happy you are able to own waterfront property... however, I do not have much sympathy for you when it comes to taxes. The big fish gobble the little fish, and this is especially true when it comes to desirable real estate like waterfront property. Your property value has risen thanks to the bigger out of state fish gobbling up the property owned by the smaller out of state fish. Supply & demand drive the marketplace... and waterfront property is in HUGE demand.

Woodsy

[Redbarn]

Just to throw my experience in. My value went up by over 30 percent, from ~280 - to over 400k. Not water front, no water access, partial water view. Obviously I don't agree with the numbers, but my opinion doesn't matter.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Redbarn

Just to throw my experience in. My value went up by over 30 percent, from ~280 - to over 400k. Not water front, no water access, partial water view. Obviously I don't agree with the numbers, but my opinion doesn't matter.

That's a pretty big hike with no waterfront or water access! I would be surprised if the value really went up that high. Do you think it would sell for this value and do you think that the increase will have a negative affect on Laconia home values?
I know when I was looking to buy 4 years ago I wouldn't look at anything in Laconia because of the taxes.

[Woodsy]

Redbarn..... if you feel you are valued wrong... you should ask for an abatement! make them show you where they got that valuation!

Woodsy

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by Major

Same to you trackeer! When I was a kid (13-15), I used to take my 14 foot Glastron with a giant (oversized) 40 horse Johnson motor to Pickerel Cove to waterski when Paugus Bay was too rough. The boat could barely fit through the culvert.

Obviously, most residents of Laconia are good, hardworking people. However, as you recognize, there is an element downtown that detracts from the City's ability to attract businesses. Presently, "there are 14 low income housing apartment complexes which contain 619 affordable apartments for rent in Laconia." (affordablehousingonline.com) My wife, who isn't timid, called me the other day from Church Street. She was picking up a prescription for her mother from Genesis, and was being followed by a tweaker with a backpack. She was genuinely scared, and called me just in case. Unfortunately, that is all too common an experience downtown.

And jetskier, I am glad you mentioned the WOW trail. I read in the Daily Sun about an incident (some sort of crime, robbery maybe) in which the perpetrator got away on the WOW trail. That is what our $400,000 paid for!

We need a comprehensive plan to eliminate section 8 housing from downtown in an effort to attract businesses. Unfortunately, I am afraid improvement is impossible until this happens.

Hi Major,

That is exactly the problem...I spent some time discussing this with a Council member. You can't put high end businesses in with Section 8...it does not work and will never work.

My wife had a great idea...buy the church (ex: Holy Grail) and convert it to performing arts....it would be a fraction of the cost of the current Colonial Theater project and it is in a better location.

You look at the garage falling down, the potholes, taxes going up (via assessments) and you have to wonder about the priorities in the town. Personally, I could not believe that the mayor still wants to spend $10k to study removing the tracks for the WOW trail when the state has indicated that will never happen. That is another waste of money.

I don't mind paying taxes when it goes to good use, but....

Just my 2 cents.

Jetskier

[Redbarn]

I called. They said I can ask for an abatement but she would require access to the house right now she "is using photos from homeaway". I was pretty surprised they go that far to see the inside of your house.

And it definitely did go up that much.

[Biggd]

Sanbornton has really high taxes also. My inlaws passed away a few years ago and had a place in Sanbornton with no water rights but within walking distance of the town beach on Winnisquam. I could have bought it off the estate fairly cheap. I chose to buy a much bigger and nicer place in Meredith on Waukewaun with water rights and a dock space for twice the price mainly because the taxes were $1500 cheaper and it was close to the town center.
One of the other siblings bought the Sanbornton house and he complains about the taxes at every family function. He also said that his insurance has almost doubled because he is so far away from the fire station.
It's been 3 years now and my taxes have gone up $300 per year and his has gone up $600. It will affect home values at some point if they keep increasing taxes more than the surrounding towns.

[trackeer]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Trackeer....

How do you figure it was a "money grab" by the city? The state law indicates at what percentage of valuation a city or town must maintain. The city has no control over the real estate market nor do they have any influence on the contractor Vision Appraisal and the values they come up with. If your property appraised 15%-40% higher... that's because some of your neighbors sold out and cashed out. Vision has to have the comps to back up their appraisals. You can always file for an abatement if you feel its appraised too high.

It doesn't matter if you believe the real estate market to be sustainable or not. It traditionally rises & falls in a cycle. The corresponding appraisals will also rise & fall accordingly (although there is a year or two lag time). The City will raise and lower the tax rate as the cycle dictates. The current tax rate has dropped...

I am happy you are able to own waterfront property... however, I do not have much sympathy for you when it comes to taxes. The big fish gobble the little fish, and this is especially true when it comes to desirable real estate like waterfront property. Your property value has risen thanks to the bigger out of state fish gobbling up the property owned by the smaller out of state fish. Supply & demand drive the marketplace... and waterfront property is in HUGE demand.

Woodsy

I believe the Tax rate is regulated not so sure about the property values, as for BIG fish gobbling little fish, it would seem your of the old school and mentality. Success shouldn't be rewarded with paying more because it happens you can, we've worked very hard for our money, because we worked hard and bought a small house on the water makes us more liable than those who own homes off the water??? Move our house off the water and it's lucky it's worth 150K.
As for an Abatement, lmao, really, I wouldn't let that woman that runs the accessors department into my house. It was bad enough several months after we bought she went over to the house and looked in the windows, that conversation didn't go to well. Otherwise the burden for abatement falls on the owner.
Otherwise Woodsy, you should count your blessings that the there are those who can afford to help support your community, without them Laconia would have bigger problems than they do now.
Otherwise there was a push at one point to make the Weirs a Self Supporting Community back many moons ago, folks felt they were paying big bucks and getting nothing back from the city, doesn't look like much has changed huh, Woodsy.........

[trackeer]

Originally Posted by Major

Same to you trackeer! When I was a kid (13-15), I used to take my 14 foot Glastron with a giant (oversized) 40 horse Johnson motor to Pickerel Cove to waterski when Paugus Bay was too rough. The boat could barely fit through the culvert.

Obviously, most residents of Laconia are good, hardworking people. However, as you recognize, there is an element downtown that detracts from the City's ability to attract businesses. Presently, "there are 14 low income housing apartment complexes which contain 619 affordable apartments for rent in Laconia." (affordablehousingonline.com) My wife, who isn't timid, called me the other day from Church Street. She was picking up a prescription for her mother from Genesis, and was being followed by a tweaker with a backpack. She was genuinely scared, and called me just in case. Unfortunately, that is all too common an experience downtown.

And jetskier, I am glad you mentioned the WOW trail. I read in the Daily Sun about an incident (some sort of crime, robbery maybe) in which the perpetrator got away on the WOW trail. That is what our $400,000 paid for!

We need a comprehensive plan to eliminate section 8 housing from downtown in an effort to attract businesses. Unfortunately, I am afraid improvement is impossible until this happens.

And sadly, folks on that little cove are contributing another 60K+ to the cities coffers for nothing in return......

[trackeer]

Originally Posted by Redbarn

I called. They said I can ask for an abatement but she would require access to the house right now she "is using photos from homeaway". I was pretty surprised they go that far to see the inside of your house.

And it definitely did go up that much.

Hey, That woman would go to most any length to see into your house, we bought and several months later, she had gone to the property and left a card they we're there. In a following phone call she slipped up and was pretty clear she was looking in windows.....so don't be surprised how they will go.

[Woodsy]

Trackeer...

It is not that I think you should be punished for being successful. I certainly do not think that. Its great that anyone is successful enough to be able to afford waterfront property.

Nobody.. wants to pay taxes. Especially when there seems to be very little return. Police/Fire/Plowing

But... because the property you bought is on the water... and as they don't seem to making any new waterfront, it becomes a highly desirable property. This increases your property value exponentially. (market driven factor) You get to reap the reward of the increase when you decide to sell. But you can't have it both ways... you cannot reap the reward of an exponential increase in property value without the corresponding increase in taxes.

The City of Laconia does pretty good keeping the budget under the tax cap of 2.5%.

Woodsy

[FlyingScot]

If you accept the general idea that people with more valuable homes should pay more in property taxes, then you should not be surprised that waterfront homes get socked. As Woodsy points out, they're not making more waterfront... Also, you should accept the assessor visiting the inside of your home. She needs to confirm that you have not added a $100K kitchen, just for example.

If you don't accept the general idea that the rich should pay more, then--at least for communities like Laconia where there is a huge gulf between waterfront and non-waterfront properties--your implied solution would cause a complete collapse in local government funding as less fortunate non waterfront owners would not be able to cover the increased burden of per capita taxation. But maybe that's your goal?

[kjkam]

How do you defend that the waterfront property that is commercial has seen significant reductions, where residential has seen increases, same issue of valuable property that they aren't making more of, 4 acres of commercial water front able to house an income producing business is worth less than a .75 acre lot with a single home on it?????

[Woodsy]

Supply and demand.... There is a HIGH demand for residential waterfront. There is almost no demand for commercial waterfront. Especially "seasonal" commercial waterfront.

Woodsy

[trackeer]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Supply and demand.... There is a HIGH demand for residential waterfront. There is almost no demand for commercial waterfront. Especially "seasonal" commercial waterfront.

Woodsy

I guess folks we can argue the fairness of Taxation as long as your not the one on the side of the increases, that said seems a mentality based on the Have's and Have's Not.

I for one have no issue paying my fair share as long as my fair share includes the services that come with the taxation, hardly seems fair the City chooses to raise the taxes around our little cove but chooses to ignore the basic needs of road repair that belongs to the city, police patrols, etc etc

As for letting the cities accessor into my home, why, she looks in windows and walks private property as well access's a private road to get there. She should learn to fly a drone and peak in windows all around the lake.

I like Live Free or Die, apparently some folks prefer the Bernie Sanders approach, "If I don't have it why should you, and if you do, your gonna pay and wish your Didn't"

[Woodsy]

Trackeer...

Your logic is flawed and anger misplaced... It is not about the haves vs. have nots. I pay the same $21.03 per thousand (a little less than 1/2 of your tax bill) on my 1000ft2 condo. I get the same lack of service from the city you do. My condo is worth a lot less than your waterfront home and it will not appreciate in value nearly as much as your waterfront home... because its just not that desirable.I have no waterfront, no dock & no view. (I knew this going in) Your home value and thus tax bill is driven by your peers and what they have paid for similar properties.

If you are going to be twisted.. be upset at the people who drive the property values up...

Woodsy

[ITD]

Don't be asking for stuff in return because if that happens your taxes will really go through the roof. Personally I like to complain about prop taxes to whoever will listen, but it really is a rich person's problem and people really don't care.

[garysanfran]

That anyone thinks it's OK for the government to tax one out of their home...Just incredible class warfare I see on this forum at times. Always wanting to punish the successful.

How about this...If you come from nothing, get rich and employ more than 10 employees, you pay nothing in taxes. In fact, society will recognize you as someone who contributes to the greater good...Watch the response to this!!!

[Major]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

That anyone thinks it's OK for the government to tax one out of their home...Just incredible class warfare I see on this forum at times. Always wanting to punish the successful.

How about this...If you come from nothing, get rich and employ more than 10 employees, you pay nothing in taxes. In fact, society will recognize you as someone who contributes to the greater good...Watch the response to this!!!

You have my support! I would qualify, except for the "rich" part!

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

That anyone thinks it's OK for the government to tax one out of their home...Just incredible class warfare I see on this forum at times. Always wanting to punish the successful.

How about this...If you come from nothing, get rich and employ more than 10 employees, you pay nothing in taxes. In fact, society will recognize you as someone who contributes to the greater good...Watch the response to this!!!

Um I will amend your suggestion just a tad but I like it.... that being you are allowed to deduct what you pay in taxes for employees up to 100% of your business tax burden. If you employ 10 people paying them scrap wages you shouldn't necessarily get a free pass, think of it as incentive to employ as many as you can an pay that as much as possible to get the most amount of business tax write offs to become tax free. Anything above and beyond are issued in tax credits that can be used to pay for further investment into the business or can be issued to employees as annual tax free bonuses. Owners would only be able to issue themselves a maximum of 25% of the total pot of annual bonus money handed out which would be reportable to the IRS.

Part time and 1099 employees don't count, this way it incentivizes businesses to actually hire people full time.

This way you are rewarding successful businesses that contribute, not the individual owners per say.

[Woodsy]

Class warfare? Are you for real? Punishing?? How is it punishing? Every property owner in Laconia pays the same $21.03 per thousand/value. If you happen to own a more valuable property, it taxed accordingly. This isn't a punishment. It is the same in all 50 states. Your property tax is based on the assessed value of your home.

The difference is New Hampshire has voted time and time again not to raise money by levying an income tax or a sales tax. This works in favor of NH residents, not so much for out of state flatlander 2nd home property owners who are paying an income tax and a sales tax in their home state.

I have no sympathy for the poor guy who whines about his taxes on his 2nd home... #1stworldproblems

Woodsy

PS: If you want to adjust the business tax rate as an incentive to hire more employees... I am all ears!

[kjkam]

Back in 1991 when Wiers beach was looking to secede, Wiers accounted for 30% of the tax revenue and 8% of the services, Wonder what that number would look like today?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

How about this...If you come from nothing, get rich and employ more than 10 employees, you pay nothing in taxes. In fact, society will recognize you as someone who contributes to the greater good...Watch the response to this!!!

Actually, that's kind of the way our federal tax system works today, or at least we're halfway there. Capital gains on the business you've implied are only 24%, and way less than that if it's QSBS eligible. That's why Warren Buffet pays a lower tax rate than his secretary.

I leave it to others to opine on whether this is appropriate.

[trackeer]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Trackeer...

Your logic is flawed and anger misplaced... It is not about the haves vs. have nots. I pay the same $21.03 per thousand (a little less than 1/2 of your tax bill) on my 1000ft2 condo. I get the same lack of service from the city you do. My condo is worth a lot less than your waterfront home and it will not appreciate in value nearly as much as your waterfront home... because its just not that desirable.I have no waterfront, no dock & no view. (I knew this going in) Your home value and thus tax bill is driven by your peers and what they have paid for similar properties.

If you are going to be twisted.. be upset at the people who drive the property values up...

Woodsy

Sorry Woodsy,

I'm not twisted, I'm a realist, anger I'm not, but perhaps that is something you should consider as your reference to those outside your boundaries as flatlanders, that happen to be ones supporting the Laconia System.
I have no problem with property Increases, forget the lame comment about Tax Rates, in this case it means Nothing, in the three years we've owned our Waterfront Estate it's held fairly steady, now the City decides to come along and revalue it at 30+ percent more than the previous year, hmmmmmm.
I believe in this case you make the case that the rich or better off than you can afford to pay more, sounds like serious Socialist at work there.

[trackeer]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Class warfare? Are you for real? Punishing?? How is it punishing? Every property owner in Laconia pays the same $21.03 per thousand/value. If you happen to own a more valuable property, it taxed accordingly. This isn't a punishment. It is the same in all 50 states. Your property tax is based on the assessed value of your home.

The difference is New Hampshire has voted time and time again not to raise money by levying an income tax or a sales tax. This works in favor of NH residents, not so much for out of state flatlander 2nd home property owners who are paying an income tax and a sales tax in their home state.

I have no sympathy for the poor guy who whines about his taxes on his 2nd home... #1stworldproblems

Woodsy

Woodsy,

Your beating the dead horse, it's not about the Tax rate, nodda to do with the extreme increase in Home Values which in turn will drive our Tax Bill, geesh.
It's called Merry Christmas from Laconia, 60K in home increase based on your logic I'm gonna hit a gold mine and in the mean time if I don't sell I'll be paying more than my fair share for basically nothing, sounds like a plan.
Simple Math.

Higher value pay More, didn't they teach that at the Bernie Sanders school of Socialism.

[Major]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Actually, that's kind of the way our federal tax system works today, or at least we're halfway there. Capital gains on the business you've implied are only 24%, and way less than that if it's QSBS eligible. That's why Warren Buffet pays a lower tax rate than his secretary.

I leave it to others to opine on whether this is appropriate.

Unfortunately, the capital gains tax rate doesn't apply to LLPs, where income passes through to the partners. I wish it did. To answer your question, I think it's appropriate. In my business, my capital is used to create income (and jobs). In exchange for this risk, a lower tax rate seems appropriate. Earning a profit isn't a given outcome. I could lose my capital. In exchange for the risk of investing capital, a lower tax rate seems reasonable.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Major

Unfortunately, the capital gains tax rate doesn't apply to LLPs, where income passes through to the partners. I wish it did. To answer your question, I think it's appropriate. In my business, my capital is used to create income (and jobs). In exchange for this risk, a lower tax rate seems appropriate. Earning a profit isn't a given outcome. I could lose my capital. In exchange for the risk of investing capital, a lower tax rate seems reasonable.

You are absolutely correct. Those who have not owned their own business cannot understand the financial responsibilities, pressure and stress with the ups and downs of particular industries and the economy. A lower tax rate is without a doubt reasonable to help keep you going and your employees working. Many many many times I had to reinvest and or borrow money corporately and personally to keep my people working during downturns and seasonal swings.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[trackeer]

FYI,

For those NH residents and their Primary residence as a veteran, any veteran, can now apply for some tax exception, this is new this year for all veterans and is $400 towards your 2018 Tax bill, again this is for your primary residence only and for Veterans in NH at their primary residence, it will or I was told it will go up every year and match any veteran benefit in place now.

As for a Business owner, which we are ones, if not for some Tax Incentives being in business would hardly be worth the effort, as a small biz goes. I guess that saying goes, if it was so easy everyone would do it.
Tax incentives are flung around this time every year, buy a new truck, invest in equipment, take a huge write down for your 17 taxes, one way the wheels keep spinning and biz's invest and grow.

[Major]

Originally Posted by joey2665

You are absolutely correct. Those who have not owned their own business cannot understand the financial responsibilities, pressure and stress with the ups and downs of particular industries and the economy. A lower tax rate is without a doubt reasonable to help keep you going and your employees working. Many many many times I had to reinvest and or borrow money corporately and personally to keep my people working during downturns and seasonal swings.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

My brother, who owns a small business in the Lakes Region, and who employs anywhere from 5-20 people, stays awake at night worrying about keeping his employees going through the winter. I know he makes less money to keep a greater number of employees going through the winter. A lower tax structure would make this easier.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Major

My brother, who owns a small business in the Lakes Region, and who employs anywhere from 5-20 people, stays awake at night worrying about keeping his employees going through the winter. I know he makes less money to keep a greater number of employees going through the winter. A lower tax structure would make this easier.

Oh yes. Many sleepless nights and stress eating lead me to become a type 2 diabetic. In remission now, thankfully. But you are not just responsible for the employees but there families. My 50 employees equated to over 300 including children and spouses. It’s a lot to have on your shoulders


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Major]

Originally Posted by trackeer

FYI,

For those NH residents and their Primary residence as a veteran, any veteran, can now apply for some tax exception, this is new this year for all veterans and is $400 towards your 2018 Tax bill, again this is for your primary residence only and for Veterans in NH at their primary residence, it will or I was told it will go up every year and match any veteran benefit in place now.

Although I served 24 years in the Reserves and National Guard, I did not qualify for the Veterans Tax Credit. The Laconia City Council opened this up for me and others who like me served but did not qualify. I reached out the Assessor's Office for clarification, and here is their response --

"The State of New Hampshire has added RSA 72:28b to the statutes. It now makes opportunity for municipalities to provide the tax credit to those veterans who did not serve during a qualifying wartime. That means if you were honorably discharged and your DD-214 states that, you can qualify for the credit. The City has adopted the statute and the option to phase in the credit. Therefore, if you qualify, you would receive an initial credit of $150 for April 1, 2018, $300 for April 1, 2019 and the $500 in April 1, 2020.

You may come into the office anytime between now and April 15, 2018, to apply for the veteran’s credit. It will be effective on April 1, 2018."

Good luck to those who qualify.

[trackeer]

Originally Posted by Major

Although I served 24 years in the Reserves and National Guard, I did not qualify for the Veterans Tax Credit. The Laconia City Council opened this up for me and others who like me served but did not qualify. I reached out the Assessor's Office for clarification, and here is their response --

"The State of New Hampshire has added RSA 72:28b to the statutes. It now makes opportunity for municipalities to provide the tax credit to those veterans who did not serve during a qualifying wartime. That means if you were honorably discharged and your DD-214 states that, you can qualify for the credit. The City has adopted the statute and the option to phase in the credit. Therefore, if you qualify, you would receive an initial credit of $150 for April 1, 2018, $300 for April 1, 2019 and the $500 in April 1, 2020.

You may come into the office anytime between now and April 15, 2018, to apply for the veteran’s credit. It will be effective on April 1, 2018."

Good luck to those who qualify.

Wow,

I thought it read as long you served at least 90 days you could qualify, hmmmmmm.
Anyway it's now available in Nashua and for me I decided to take advantage, I consider my self a Veteran but not in the true sense of the word. If you can qualify and live in Laconia and own an Estate on the water what the hell, Woodsy says it's a good thing.....lol

[Woodsy]

Trackeer...

The Bernie Sanders school of Socialism? Hardly! There is not a state in the Union that doesn't have a property tax.... every single one of those taxes is assessed on $xx/1000 of valuation. The more your property is worth, the more your individual tax bill may be. But everyone in the municipality pays the same $xx/1000 rate. I don't know why you think you should pay the same property tax as someone whose house is only valued at $150K....

I am sorry Vision Appraisal upped the value on your investment by $60K and increased your tax bill by $1260... If you feel you are so wronged, and the value nowhere near fair market value, you should appeal it. I would. I truly and sincerely hope you win.

The city by law has to stay above 90%+ valuation... as such, Vision usually looks/visits at every property in the city on a 5 year cycle... if your value has held steady for 3 years, and your comments about the Appraiser trying to get into the house... it seems to me like you just got whacked by the 5 year visit.

Woodsy


Woodsy

[kjkam]

If they visited each property it would be unlikely that each would have seen the exact same 41.9% increase. I’m in no way debating that waterfront property is not worth more than non water front, but for almost every waterfront owner to see such an increase (with a few curious exceptions) is crazy. There is only so much people can afford, increase them too much and the value of the properties will decrease. Owners around Pagus bay and Wiers Beach should take a long hard look at seceeding from a city that provides so little value, yet consumes so much.

[Woodsy]

It is entirely possible that there were enough waterfront comps that they could justify the 41% across the board.... either way, if you don't think the new appraisals are close to fair market value... appeal the appraisal!

Woodsy

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by joey2665

Oh yes. Many sleepless nights and stress eating lead me to become a type 2 diabetic. In remission now, thankfully. But you are not just responsible for the employees but there families. My 50 employees equated to over 300 including children and spouses. It’s a lot to have on your shoulders
[/url]

I feel you--I'm a serial entrepreneur who has suffered through many sleepless nights, revenue swings and cash squeezes. No diabetes, but plenty of GERD.

But nevertheless, when all is said and done, I think it's extraordinary that virtually all of the wealth created in our country over the past ten years or so has gone to the top 1%. We need to use the tax code to nudge this to something a bit more sustainable and fair

[trackeer]

Originally Posted by kjkam

If they visited each property it would be unlikely that each would have seen the exact same 41.9% increase. I’m in no way debating that waterfront property is not worth more than non water front, but for almost every waterfront owner to see such an increase (with a few curious exceptions) is crazy. There is only so much people can afford, increase them too much and the value of the properties will decrease. Owners around Pagus bay and Wiers Beach should take a long hard look at seceeding from a city that provides so little value, yet consumes so much.

I concur with your comment 100%, raising the taxes on a market fluctuation and to the tune of 35+ percent is a pretty substantial increase. Is waterfront more valuable, well Woodsy Duh, but on the flip side I paid 210K about three years ago, the city claimed a 232K value, I let it slide and figured the process for abatement way to involved for the free time I have and I still feel that way today. No I won't fight the increase, I'll do what I'm sure others will do and consider my options and perhaps sell, we get nothing, let me be clear nothing from the city of laconia, nothing changed except they increased my property taxes and will still give me nothing.
Here here to succession, would sure make me happy, the Town of Weirs, nice.
Let's see if the city adjust accordingly when and if the market tanks, to the tune of 40 Percent.........

[Doobs41378]

Originally Posted by trackeer

I concur with your comment 100%, raising the taxes on a market fluctuation and to the tune of 35+ percent is a pretty substantial increase. Is waterfront more valuable, well Woodsy Duh, but on the flip side I paid 210K about three years ago, the city claimed a 232K value, I let it slide and figured the process for abatement way to involved for the free time I have and I still feel that way today. No I won't fight the increase, I'll do what I'm sure others will do and consider my options and perhaps sell, we get nothing, let me be clear nothing from the city of laconia, nothing changed except they increased my property taxes and will still give me nothing.

Here here to succession, would sure make me happy, the Town of Weirs, nice.

Let's see if the city adjust accordingly when and if the market tanks, to the tune of 40 Percent.........

Who comes if you call the fire police or ambulance? The city will get their money. If you sell somebody else will just pay it. Doesn’t make it right but they know this.


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[ITD]

Originally Posted by PeterG

I feel you--I'm a serial entrepreneur who has suffered through many sleepless nights, revenue swings and cash squeezes. No diabetes, but plenty of GERD.

But nevertheless, when all is said and done, I think it's extraordinary that virtually all of the wealth created in our country over the past ten years or so has gone to the top 1%. We need to use the tax code to nudge this to something a bit more sustainable and fair

That never, never works Peter, wealth redistribution. Work smarter, not harder. If you are a serial entrepreneur and not making tons of money you are not doing it right.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by trackeer

I concur with your comment 100%, raising the taxes on a market fluctuation and to the tune of 35+ percent is a pretty substantial increase. Is waterfront more valuable, well Woodsy Duh, but on the flip side I paid 210K about three years ago, the city claimed a 232K value, I let it slide and figured the process for abatement way to involved for the free time I have and I still feel that way today. No I won't fight the increase, I'll do what I'm sure others will do and consider my options and perhaps sell, we get nothing, let me be clear nothing from the city of laconia, nothing changed except they increased my property taxes and will still give me nothing.
Here here to succession, would sure make me happy, the Town of Weirs, nice.
Let's see if the city adjust accordingly when and if the market tanks, to the tune of 40 Percent.........

Well, you do get services from the city.... you get fire/police/ambulance. Hilliard Rd gets plowed by the city as well. Is it worth what you pay in taxes? not by a long shot. But that is just the way it is. I get very little from the city for my $2800 too. When the market tanks, the city will adjust to the devaluation... the tax rate will rise but the property value will drop.

If you choose not to apply for a tax abatement, well that's on you. The process is in place for just such an occurrence. If you choose to sell ( I hope it doesn't come to that) I hope you get more than the current assessed value.

Woodsy

[trackeer]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Well, you do get services from the city.... you get fire/police/ambulance. Hilliard Rd gets plowed by the city as well. Is it worth what you pay in taxes? not by a long shot. But that is just the way it is. I get very little from the city for my $2800 too. When the market tanks, the city will adjust to the devaluation... the tax rate will rise but the property value will drop.

If you choose not to apply for a tax abatement, well that's on you. The process is in place for just such an occurrence. If you choose to sell ( I hope it doesn't come to that) I hope you get more than the current assessed value.

Woodsy

Well,

We used the Ambulance (1)One time, they were great and the experience for the wife was great. Now, did we get a bill or did the insurance pay the bill included with the emergency room and the stay over???
Called the police once to check on a notice my lock set had been tampered with, was told I get one free visit???

Sure they Plow Hilliard, I have absolutely no problem with the fact I own a private road, new that going in, but over the past 3 years the end of Hilliard was literally disintegrating, took a act of congress to get it fixed, they took out the pavement and left it dirt, a few months back BTW????

Wes's comments was it'll be easier to maintain, we wondered if they were going to do the same to the other roads in Laconia???

Anyway, we love the Lake, it has been part of our ritual for over 30 years, sadly Laconia sucks, but on the flip side, doubt we'd find waterfront even on the lake elsewhere 210K.

But, thanks for the stimulation, it feels great to let the steam off and vent frustration with something that obviously is resonating around Laconia especially those who got a BIG tax bill at Xmas and some much worse than others.

[jeffk]

While I agree that if an appraisal sees a significant jump you should review it and possibly challenge it, it may have nothing to do with YOUR property.

The first part of the appraisal is an evaluation of the property. Square footage, number of bedrooms, amount of waterfront (if any), and special features that matter to the appraisal (I am always amused at what does and doesn't count). This should be a pretty cut and dried process. You either have 3 bedrooms or 4. You have 100 ft. or no waterfront. You have hardwood floors (if that counts) or vinyl. It's an accurate physical description of your house. Frankly, my opinion is, refusing to let the appraiser into your house is raising the likelihood that the appraisal will not be accurate. Also, trying to hide the hardwood floors you put in 2 years ago is cheating, IMO. I know some people just don't want the government in their homes. OK, I get it. The appraisers have the right to walk around your property (as far as I know) and it's their job. Are they "peeking in windows" or just trying to accurately ascertain the condition of the exterior? Who knows? They are human beings and some of us are more nosey than we ought to be.

I challenged an appraisal and won because they had described two porch areas as heated living space. They got the physical description wrong.

But the other aspect of the appraisal has more to do with your neighbors than you. You know how communities brag how they won "Best place to live ..." awards? Well, guess what, when others read that, THEY want to live here too. If your school won an award for education, the town becomes a magnet for families with kids. Maybe you live in a low tax RATE town which is also appealing. The people attracted to YOUR community bid up the prices on homes because they find them desirable. The appraisal company looks at recent sales in YOUR area with similar features and values your house accordingly. So when your neighbor brags he just make a fortune on the sale of HIS house, YOUR appraised value and your proportion of the property tax just increased. You got no more services provided and YOU did nothing to increase your property value. That's just the way it works. It's also just about impossible to challenge what the sales prices of comparable houses in your area were.

Say you work in a state with income taxes. After proving your worth to your employer, they give you a nice raise. However it bumps up your tax bracket. You pay MORE tax (proportionately) on the new earnings than you did on the old earnings. Not fair? That's the way the system is.

Of course, the best way to keep taxes down for everyone is to control spending. Good luck with that. There are a lot of people, usually residents and voters, constantly clamoring for services. There are fewer high value property owners and most (?) of them are not voting residents. Where do you think the pressure pushes the town officials?

I solved my tax problem. I sold my high valued, high taxed property and moved into a "lower valued" property. Now I have 3 times the housing space and 5 times the land. I pay half the taxes and my appraisal even went down a bit this year. So for all you highly valued property owners paying "more" than your share of taxes, THANKS for your contribution! I was one of you. Now I'm happy to say I'm not.

[Biggd]

Taxes are always a hot button topic. Everyone loves to see the value of their property go up but no one wants to see their taxes go up to match it. If we went by NH's moniker, live free or die" we would all be dead.

[rsmlp]

"I solved my tax problem. I sold my high valued, high taxed property and moved into a "lower valued" property. Now I have 3 times the housing space and 5 times the land. I pay half the taxes and my appraisal even went down a bit this year. So for all you highly valued property owners paying "more" than your share of taxes, THANKS for your contribution! I was one of you. Now I'm happy to say I'm not."

So the answer to higher property tax is to move into a less valuable property? Personally, I want MORE as I get older not less. I thought that's what we work for.

My property tax in Moultonboro has more than doubled over the past 20 years as has the value of my property. Good! My standard of living is improving.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

"I solved my tax problem. I sold my high valued, high taxed property and moved into a "lower valued" property. Now I have 3 times the housing space and 5 times the land. I pay half the taxes and my appraisal even went down a bit this year. So for all you highly valued property owners paying "more" than your share of taxes, THANKS for your contribution! I was one of you. Now I'm happy to say I'm not."

So the answer to higher property tax is to move into a less valuable property? Personally, I want MORE as I get older not less. I thought that's what we work for.

My property tax in Moultonboro has more than doubled over the past 20 years as has the value of my property. Good! My standard of living is improving.

I don't know how old you are but I'm 63 and I need less as I get older. Material things just don't mean as much anymore. Friends and family are more important than ever now. Having more just complicates life.
I have the funds to buy what ever I want but now I only buy what I need. I find I have too much now and want to get rid of things. That's my goal over the next few years as I move into retirement mode. A different mind set comes with getting older. I'm done with the accumulation faze. I see my children going through that now. They have sooo much crap they can't move!
That's why storage facilities are popping up everywhere.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I don't know how old you are but I'm 63 and I need less as I get older. Material things just don't mean as much anymore. Friends and family are more important than ever now. Having more just complicates life.
I have the funds to buy what ever I want but now I only buy what I need. I find I have too much now and want to get rid of things. That's my goal over the next few years as I move into retirement mode. A different mind set comes with getting older. I'm done with the accumulation faze. I see my children going through that now. They have sooo much crap they can't move!
That's why storage facilities are popping up everywhere.

Same page again. I just downsized my primary residence in NY and in the process got rid of most that I do not need and I'm 52. Family and friends do come first and my goal now is to make sure I am amply taking care of my childrens financial future.

[kjkam]

The idea that the valuation is equal to fair market value is always a farce, in almost every case the "fair market value" used to determine taxes is a fraction of actual value. Example Channel (Winni marine) "fair market value" $1.423M for tax purposes, actually sold for $3.4M. So actual value was 2.4 times the assesed "fair market value" By that math a water front home assessed at $775K should sell in today's market for $1.8M. Reality is that home sold for $900k this year, so the actual multiplier from actual value to assessed value is 1.16x of the assessed value. Looking at residential property non water front the actual values are running in the 1.4-1.5 times the assessed value.

Everyone has to pay taxes, and taxing on assessed value may be fair, but what this shows is that assessments of residential waterfront property are set much closer to the actual value than on non water front or commercial property. The math does not lie, leave that to the politicians.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by joey2665

Same page again. I just downsized my primary residence in NY and in the process got rid of most that I do not need and I'm 52. Family and friends do come first and my goal now is to make sure I am amply taking care of my childrens financial future.

Thankfully my children don't need my financial help. They all work hard and make more money than me now.
I started down sizing around 52 also. I had a bigger business operation which I sold off and now I have 2 commercial properties and just one employee, much less headaches. I had 3 homes and now I'm down to 2. My goal is to get rid of everything except the lake house within the next few years. It's time for my wife and I to take care of ourselves now instead of everyone else. All I have to do is get my wife to cooperate, LOL!

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Thankfully my children don't need my financial help. They all work hard and make more money than me now.
I started down sizing around 52 also. I had a bigger business operation which I sold off and now I have 2 commercial properties and just one employee, much less headaches. I had 3 homes and now I'm down to 2. My goal is to get rid of everything except the lake house within the next few years. It's time for my wife and I to take care of ourselves now instead of everyone else. All I have to do is get my wife to cooperate, LOL!

That is funny and the parallels are amazing. I sold my business and now have commercial properties also, however my children are much younger than yours 11 and 16 so I have a way to go before they are financially independent.

[AC2717]

couple of thoughts to this topic:

Budget - the town needs to reel in spending (every town does) but what amazing me is the tax rate is adjusted one way and the market controls your value another way- fact of the matter is your property is only worth what someone is willing to pay at that particular point in time. One day my place could be worth $50k another day it could be worth $200k. By the town using market value are they willing to buy your place for that amount of money?
when Town needs (wants) more money only way to get it is taxes - for some reason its the only "business" that can afford to operate at a loss repeatedly and stay in business.

Very few towns even in MA have high property values with high taxes, The City of Boston has an extremely low property tax and values are high and it still has a number of services, you still don't even have to pay extra to put your trash out and they take everything, and I mean everything. It is very rare that market values are not impacted by the property taxes on them. Go to any town and look at the asking or selling price of a property and then look at the taxes - in my town for example home prices are relatively cheaper than average in MA, but the tax rate is in the top 5 in the state. 1700 sqft home on a 1/4arce will hit you with $6,600 in taxes and a purchase value of mid $300k, or $550 a month. Now add that to the mortgage of about $2,200 or so and you are now looking at $2,750 a month and then utilities, repairs, insurance, and other life expenses. - We actually choose to rent in our town because it is way cheaper annually to live at this point in time (spare me the you don't own it speech and I will spare you look at the total amount you are paying for your property over time speech)- the days of buying a property for $300k and selling it for $600k in less than 20 years are over.
take the same property with a lower tax rate, and the seller could get more for the house - which translates to them spending more in the economy generating more income all around instead of money just going to the town and it disappearing.

now take the 2nd home market that is a topic in this thread - in Laconia and Belknap county. - 2nd home - if not buying cash - loans are very hard to obtain and at a much higher rate - a ding against the market value, if in a condo or cottage association (we own in a cottage association in Laconia)depending on when it was formed the County makes you put a provision in your bylaws that say it cannot be used as your primary residence, and in turn are "not supposed" to occupy year round and therefore rent it year round to one person you could not make it your primary residence even if you wanted to - so now we are paying taxes on services that we cannot use, cannot vote in the town and again a ding to the market value, and if you are an out of state person you are treated like one even though you pay your "Fare Share" of local taxes - ding on market value. - All the way trying to better yourself and they punish you at every turn, I do not need to be rewarded from others for me trying to have success in my life, but I should not be hit harder because I chose to work 3 jobs my whole life to get where I am today, and everyone else can choose to do this as well.

"taxation without representation"
Why am I not able to vote in local elections? Voiced concerns actually heard(opinion)? I understand national elections like Presidential, US Senate and Congress races, but for local and state level there should be no reason that you should not be able to partake especially because you pay taxes and what is done has a direct affect on your property, its value and your own well being. One town has nothing to do with another town when it comes to operation. Yes I chose to purchase the property and all these issues that come with it, I am not debating that fact - when Laconia was operating with town meetings the tide was a very different one from today with balloting -

Long and Short - Every town, especially Laconia, should be held by their constituents to a standard of a realistic budget much like people have to run their households, but when they are un-checked by voting - and all these "waterfront" properties that non-Laconia residents own, you pit the residences of the town against the non residents and with the residents being the only ones with a voice, it is forcing the burden on the non residents, and will continue to do so because the residents are left alone, unaffected by the town decisions monetarily, this will not change, at the end of the day it boils down to your pocket your hand vs your pocket town's hand.

Simple Economic fact that cannot be disputed - less taxation generates more spending and savings wealth, and that spending is real estate, goods and services, you name it, all which benefits the community as a whole (from banks, to dunkin donuts, to the 15 year old mowing lawns). Savings wealth is used at a later date for a "rainy day" or passed to generations to use, and most likely put into savings plans that hopefully generate future wealth that is then taxed accordingly and generates more.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by joey2665

That is funny and the parallels are amazing. I sold my business and now have commercial properties also, however my children are much younger than yours 11 and 16 so I have a way to go before they are financially independent.

Great minds think alike. You will be amazed at the changes in your mind set that will guide you over the next 10 years. More is no longer better and slightly used is just as good as new.