"Social Distancing" at the Lake

[Major]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I'm with you on it being an opinion.

But it is an opinion shared by virtually every medical and political leader in the entire world. This would include Donald Trump, and what I would assume is your favorite TV source, Fox News. Here's an overview of how their opinions have evolved over the past few weeks. You can skip the editorial if you'd like to avoid bias, but the video clips are all facts (i.e. it's a fact that certain people said certain things at certain times).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video...8c0_video.html

I look forward to your opinion on their more recent statements

Unfortunately, our president had no choice. The media and social media has whipped us up into such a frenzy that politically he could not take more metered actions to avoid destroying what otherwise was a booming economy. I'm not sure he really believes it. However, he has to politically.

I am not impressed by the so-called experts, who for the most part are government employees who have a vested interest in making a mountain out of a molehill. I've made the comparison before, but there are so-called experts who say that manmade climate change is an existential threat.

I've asked this many times with absolutely no response. Where was all of the hand waving and hysteria for the much worse H1N1 virus? Don't tell me the Chinese coronavirus is worse, the comparative numbers do not bear it out. Where are the Forum threads demanding that we destroy our economy to save lives.

As stated before by many others, I think we've exhausted this topic. I have my opinion, everyone else has theirs. I am as resolute if not more so than before just as others are with their views. The one good thing from this is that the President's approval rating is skyrocketing, which given the press against him, is a pretty good result. Even political rivals are praising him. I think history will treat him well on this.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Major

Unfortunately, our president had no choice. The media and social media has whipped us up into such a frenzy that politically he could not take more metered actions to avoid destroying what otherwise was a booming economy. I'm not sure he really believes it. However, he has to politically.

I am not impressed by the so-called experts, who for the most part are government employees who have a vested interest in making a mountain out of a molehill. I've made the comparison before, but there are so-called experts who say that manmade climate change is an existential threat.

I've asked this many times with absolutely no response. Where was all of the hand waving and hysteria for the much worse H1N1 virus? Don't tell me the Chinese coronavirus is worse, the comparative numbers do not bear it out. Where are the Forum threads demanding that we destroy our economy to save lives.

As stated before by many others, I think we've exhausted this topic. I have my opinion, everyone else has theirs. I am as resolute if not more so than before just as others are with their views. The one good thing from this is that the President's approval rating is skyrocketing, which given the press against him, is a pretty good result. Even political rivals are praising him. I think history will treat him well on this.

Once again you have evaded the central question of a post that disagrees with you. The link has a series of quotes from Fox news--an organization that has evolved remarkably as new information has come in. I hope you will let us know if you agree with their recent opinions.

[Major]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Once again you have evaded the central question of a post that disagrees with you. The link has a series of quotes from Fox news--an organization that has evolved remarkably as new information has come in. I hope you will let us know if you agree with their recent opinions.

No I don't. There's a lot of money involved in hyping the Chinese coronavirus. They are jumping on the bandwagon.

Now answer my question, where were you and everyone else for the much worse H1N1 virus? Did the fact that we had a savior as president and a complicit press have anything to do with it?

[coolyourjets]

Originally Posted by Major

No I don't. There's a lot of money involved in hyping the Chinese coronavirus. They are jumping on the bandwagon.

Now answer my question, where were you and everyone else for the much worse H1N1 virus? Did the fact that we had a savior as president and a complicit press have anything to do with it?

https://www.livescience.com/covid-19...swine-flu.html

It's science. And yes the dinosaurs existed and no, the earth is not flat.

[Major]

Originally Posted by coolyourjets

https://www.livescience.com/covid-19...swine-flu.html

It's science. And yes the dinosaurs existed and no, the earth is not flat.

The article proves my point, as of TODAY, the raw numbers for H1N1 was much worse. I know science and I know math. I went to college for engineering.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Major

The article proves my point, as of TODAY, the raw numbers for H1N1 was much worse. I know science and I know math. I went to college for engineering.

Well, I know science and I know math, too, and I know you can’t compare numbers for a pandemic which has run its course, and one that is still developing. You also can’t ignore everything that you don’t like or agree with. That’s not very scientific.


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[Major]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Well, I know science and I know math, too, and I know you can’t compare numbers for a pandemic which has run its course, and one that is still developing. You also can’t ignore everything that you don’t like or agree with. That’s not very scientific.


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You are right you cannot compare numbers for H1N1 and the Chinese coronavirus until the Chinese coronavirus has run its course. Here are the FACTS to date:

H1N1
Estimated cases worldwide -- 700,000,000 to 1,400,000,000
Deaths worldwide -- 151,700 to 575,400
Estimated cases U.S. -- 1,000,000
Deaths U.S. -- 7,070 to 13,930

Chinese coronavirus
Estimated cases worldwide -- 287,125
Deaths worldwide -- 11,890
Estimated cases U.S. -- 19,823
Deaths U.S. -- 276

These numbers clearly support the notion that perhaps the Chinese coronavirus is not as severe as the H1N1 virus. Perhaps our response was excessive and an overreaction.

Anyway, I ran into a small business owner who had to lay off her entire staff and is looking for loans to keep her business afloat. The toll on small businesses is astronomical. I don't understand why it is such heresy to consider, perhaps, there may have been a better, more metered approach.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Major

You are right you cannot compare numbers for H1N1 and the Chinese coronavirus until the Chinese coronavirus has run its course. Here are the FACTS to date:

H1N1
Estimated cases worldwide -- 700,000,000 to 1,400,000,000
Deaths worldwide -- 151,700 to 575,400
Estimated cases U.S. -- 1,000,000
Deaths U.S. -- 7,070 to 13,930

Chinese coronavirus
Estimated cases worldwide -- 287,125
Deaths worldwide -- 11,890
Estimated cases U.S. -- 19,823
Deaths U.S. -- 276

These numbers clearly support the notion that perhaps the Chinese coronavirus is not as severe as the H1N1 virus. Perhaps our response was excessive and an overreaction.

Anyway, I ran into a small business owner who had to lay off her entire staff and is looking for loans to keep her business afloat. The toll on small businesses is astronomical. I don't understand why it is such heresy to consider, perhaps, there may have been a better, more metered approach.

Well, I won’t compare numbers until the Coronavirus has run its course. You have to remember that testing in many countries is still limited, so the estimates are likely very low.

My heart breaks for all the small businesses and people who are seriously financially affected by this. My niece thinks student loans should be forgiven at this point. Mind you, she’s still getting paid while working remotely. If I were up north, I’d smack her in her self-absorbed face.


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[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

My niece thinks student loans should be forgiven at this point. Mind you, she’s still getting paid while working remotely. If I were up north, I’d smack her in her self-absorbed face.

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Ask your niece if they should forgive mortgages and car loans too. I would be all in!

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Ask your niece if they should forgive mortgages and car loans too. I would be all in!

My sister sarcastically asked about her car loan, and her son reemed her a new one. Needless to say, he got a phone call from me.

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[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by Major

You are right you cannot compare numbers for H1N1 and the coronavirus until the coronavirus has run its course. Here are the FACTS to date:

coronavirus
Estimated cases worldwide -- 287,125
Deaths worldwide -- 11,890
Estimated cases U.S. -- 19,823
Deaths U.S. -- 276

The Major’s post got me interested in doing some research. The CDC has a great archive article on the N1H1 flu. https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/cdcresponse.htm.

There are significant differences in the H1N1 pandemic of 2009 and the Covid-19 cases of 2020.

With N1H1, several effective anti-viral drugs that were quickly identified, greatly reducing the fear and need to shut down the economy. About a third of people over 60 were immune, having been exposed to similar viruses along the way. Finally, the government response was quick. Masks and anti-viral drugs were shipping from stockpiles within 10 days of the virus identification. There was more confidence and understanding of how to deal with it, so less panic. Within 5 months, there was a vaccine and by the end of the year, most of the people at greatest risk were protected.

This Covid-19 epidemic is still out of control. No antiviral drugs approved for treatment, shortage of protective gear and testing kits and no known groups with immunity. At this point, it could just vanish, or maybe the scientific community will some up with some solutions, but it seems likely that things will get worse for at least the next month or so. Let’s hope we can reboot the economy soon.

In just eight hours after the Major’s post of Covid-19 global numbers, things are different. Instead of 287,125 global cases, there are 303,816. 16,691 more, or 5.8% more. Instead of 11,890 global deaths, there are 12,996. 1106, or 9% more. In eight hours.

[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by Major

Unfortunately, our president had no choice. The media and social media has whipped us up into such a frenzy that politically he could not take more metered actions to avoid destroying what otherwise was a booming economy. I'm not sure he really believes it. However, he has to politically.

I am not impressed by the so-called experts, who for the most part are government employees who have a vested interest in making a mountain out of a molehill. I've made the comparison before, but there are so-called experts who say that manmade climate change is an existential threat.

I've asked this many times with absolutely no response. Where was all of the hand waving and hysteria for the much worse H1N1 virus? Don't tell me the Chinese coronavirus is worse, the comparative numbers do not bear it out. Where are the Forum threads demanding that we destroy our economy to save lives.

As stated before by many others, I think we've exhausted this topic. I have my opinion, everyone else has theirs. I am as resolute if not more so than before just as others are with their views. The one good thing from this is that the President's approval rating is skyrocketing, which given the press against him, is a pretty good result. Even political rivals are praising him. I think history will treat him well on this.

So, what you are saying is, we WAIT until covid-19 actually becomes worse than H1N1, THEN we do something about it?

I think this will be what history remembers about Trump...

February 26th, 2020. President Trump: “When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.”

March 20th, 2020. Confirmed cases in the United States rise to 16,064.

[Major]

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

So, what you are saying is, we WAIT until covid-19 actually becomes worse than H1N1, THEN we do something about it?

I think this will be what history remembers about Trump...

February 26th, 2020. President Trump: “When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.”

March 20th, 2020. Confirmed cases in the United States rise to 16,064.

So the only option we had was to destroy a thriving economy? There was no intermediate, or metered option? I'm no genius, but 16,064 seems to be a lot less than over 1,000,000. Is there any potential that the Chinese coronavirus may be less of a crisis than the H1N1 crisis?

[erick26]

Originally Posted by Major

So the only option we had was to destroy a thriving economy? There was no intermediate, or metered option? I'm no genius, but 16,064 seems to be a lot less than over 1,000,000. Is there any potential that the Chinese coronavirus may be less of a crisis than the H1N1 crisis?

Or that the numbers are lower because most people obeyed the social distancing and reduced the spread. Chicken and egg here as people that think we are over reacting will push the case further based on the reduction and we will never know how bad it would have been if we did nothing. Chill for a couple of weeks and keep your distance and let this thing play out. The longer people keep doing their everyday thing the longer it will drag out and the worse the repercussions will be. If they had just shut everything down for 2 weeks in the beginning we would be mostly through this and starting to get back to normal but instead we are stuck in the middle and just pointing fingers at each other. It sucks for everyone - do what you really feel is right as long as you can sleep better at night. I’m taking one for the team and I hope in the long term it’s the right decision.


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