Paddle boarder struck by pontoon boat

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by ITD

All those situations you list are just an everyday part of boating.

Do you just whip out from a parking spot in your car when your view is blocked by an object and hope that you won't hit something? I doubt it, but that is what you are saying above that you do in a boat.

Move no faster when in close to an object than you would want to be moving if you hit it. Take those words to heart, that is how you should be operating your boat, it removes almost all fear from boating. You keep saying "constant power", I don't know what boat you have, but in my boat, that gets me going too fast in close, and my experience this is true with almost all recreational boats.

I'm telling you that you need to work on maneuvering your boat slowly, I can tell from how you post, you are afraid and you don't need to be. Start by going to an area that is not busy, throw a life jacket in the water, move a few hundred feet away, then approach it slowly. Keep it in sight and bring to spot a few feet away where you can see it, then keep it in that spot for a minute or two. Then find a dock, bring the bow of the nose just up to the dock, but don't touch, try to hold it there. Back off and do it again. Figure out how to angle the boat based on conditions so you can hold it there without moving more than a foot or two. Nudge the power as you need to keep the boat under control. Being able to do this will make paddle boarders no big deal regardless of where they are. It will also make your feeling that you have be going a certain speed to maintain control go away.

Finally, find a u shaped dock, and back into it, that is the real test of boat control.

Being able to do these things will help you realize that maintaining boat control is not a function of maintaining a certain power level. Power actually has nothing to do with it. I've said that I go no faster in close than I want to be going if I hit something. Which is probably a very slow walk speed. The amount of power I need to MAINTAIN THAT SPEED is not a constant. On a windless, waveless day it may be a short nudge that moves me 100 feet at that slow walk speed. On a day when the wind is howling it may be constant power to MAINTAIN THAT SPEED. The danger is not a random paddle boarder near a dock for a few minutes, the danger is boaters who do not know how to drive their boats. If you are in fear, or worried about driving your boat or operating your boat in close quarters, find someone to help you learn, read a book on how to handle a boat and get out and practice. The point is maintaining that slow speed and control. Not maintaining a power level.

The only thing I really fear while boating is someone who doesn't know how to operate their boat getting all puckered up near me, thinking they need more power and running me over.

It is all to apparent that we are way off topic, and making zero progress.

Clearly our perspectives are too different to resolve and in reality representative of the spectrum people boating.

You speak about recreational boaters as if they are (or should be) on par with commercial mariners in an industrial setting, where as my observation is that most recreational boaters cant tell port from starboard, can barely operate their boats, and have never seen a spark plug let alone changed one on their own boat or even understand how most of it works.

You seem to be promoting the notion that boaters must measure up to the standards you expect (backing into a u-shaped dock - not getting puckered up - etc) great ideas in a perfect world, but not even close to reality for a reasonable expectation. Sorry it just is not going to happen.

I except that I will be surrounded by constant problems from novice boaters and paddle board renters and people with kayaks who seem oblivious about the situations they sometime put themselves in, and that I must adjust and adapt to the errors of many others. As well as all the potential errors I make! (let he who is without sin cast the first stone!)

I believe you will not change the makeup of the recreational boaters nor their abilities, and there is no way to educate day visitor/vacationers who rent powerful fiberglass boats, bulky and challenging to operate around dock pontoon boats, and paddle boards where I have seen novices kneeling down on the boards and hugging dock hoping to build their skill but wanting the perceived safety of a lower position and close proximity to a dock, all the while placing themselves in harms way from the novice AND aggressive boaters.

As such I believe we must all adapt to the lowest common denominator(s) among us.

So again we will have to agree to disagree on all this and more.

I will accept you are entitled to your opinion and I will continue to practice what has served me well all my years of boating on Winnipesaukee and elsewhere, dating back to when the steering on our boats looked like clothesline rope.

ATB

[ITD]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

It is all to apparent that we are way off topic, and making zero progress.

Clearly our perspectives are too different to resolve and in reality representative of the spectrum people boating.

You speak about recreational boaters as if they are (or should be) on par with commercial mariners in an industrial setting, where as my observation is that most recreational boaters cant tell port from starboard, can barely operate their boats, and have never seen a spark plug let alone changed one on their own boat or even understand how most of it works.

You seem to be promoting the notion that boaters must measure up to the standards you expect (backing into a u-shaped dock - not getting puckered up - etc) great ideas in a perfect world, but not even close to reality for a reasonable expectation. Sorry it just is not going to happen.

I except that I will be surrounded by constant problems from novice boaters and paddle board renters and people with kayaks who seem oblivious about the situations they sometime put themselves in, and that I must adjust and adapt to the errors of many others. As well as all the potential errors I make! (let he who is without sin cast the first stone!)

I believe you will not change the makeup of the recreational boaters nor their abilities, and there is no way to educate day visitor/vacationers who rent powerful fiberglass boats, bulky and challenging to operate around dock pontoon boats, and paddle boards where I have seen novices kneeling down on the boards and hugging dock hoping to build their skill but wanting the perceived safety of a lower position and close proximity to a dock, all the while placing themselves in harms way from the novice AND aggressive boaters.

As such I believe we must all adapt to the lowest common denominator(s) among us.

So again we will have to agree to disagree on all this and more.

I will accept you are entitled to your opinion and I will continue to practice what has served me well all my years of boating on Winnipesaukee and elsewhere, dating back to when the steering on our boats looked like clothesline rope.

ATB

Yeah, I'm not going to get through to you, that is unfortunate. There will always be things in your way while boating. If any legislation comes of this it should focus on those who choose not gain the skill to deal with those things rather than banning those things from certain areas.

I detest legislating more rules, but I'm starting to feel that it may be time for some type of boating test requirement where people are required to prove they can safely operate a boat, especially in close quarters.

I hope it doesn't come to that and that people are smart enough to understand that if they get "puckered" up with certain operations they need more training. But I fear we are only a few more accidents away from legislators deciding they need to do something and force boaters to competent.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by ITD

Yeah, I'm not going to get through to you, that is unfortunate.

100% agreed, and no apology.

Best of luck to you and your expectations for others and the world around you.

Hope you never find yourself in a situation that doesnt work as you expect, it will be quite disappointing.

ATB

[ITD]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

100% agreed, and no apology.

Best of luck to you and your expectations for others and the world around you.

Hope you never find yourself in a situation that doesnt work as you expect, it will be quite disappointing.

ATB

Trust me, from what you write, I know I am 100 times more equipped to deal with situations that don't "work as you expect" and am confident I will not be disappointed. Are you?

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by ITD

Trust me, from what you write, I know I am 100 times more equipped to deal with situations that don't "work as you expect" and am confident I will not be disappointed. Are you?

ABSOLUTELY NOT. No chance, no way, NOT.

The world is always throwing things at me I did not expect, have never seen, have not reference about how to deal with. I adapt and adjust based on what I have learned and experienced and do my best of my abilities, and that is my expectation for myself and others.

I have no expectation things will work for me OR you as expected, so I exercise as much reasonable caution as I think needed.

Generally I hope not to meet people who are confident things will never go wrong or they will not "disappoint", or who do not have a healthy of fear and caution. Because when they do finally face that situation where things do go wrong, they are usually ill equipped to address those situations.

Where there are humans, there WILL be human error.

How you deal with that error is just as important as the error.

Arrogance and unyielding confidence in ones self does nothing to prevent accidents and usually makes for a poor response plan when something goes wrong. If it works for you so be it.

[JEEPONLY]

"You clinking, clattering collection of caliginous junk!

[ITD]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

ABSOLUTELY NOT. No chance, no way, NOT.

The world is always throwing things at me I did not expect, have never seen, have not reference about how to deal with. I adapt and adjust based on what I have learned and experienced and do my best of my abilities, and that is my expectation for myself and others.

I have no expectation things will work for me OR you as expected, so I exercise as much reasonable caution as I think needed.

Generally I hope not to meet people who are confident things will never go wrong or they will not "disappoint", or who do not have a healthy of fear and caution. Because when they do finally face that situation where things do go wrong, they are usually ill equipped to address those situations.

Where there are humans, there WILL be human error.

How you deal with that error is just as important as the error.

Arrogance and unyielding confidence in ones self does nothing to prevent accidents and usually makes for a poor response plan when something goes wrong. If it works for you so be it.

Holy cow, how about not setting yourself up for the error in the first place?

Lol, how you can so mistake my words and comments is telling, have a good one.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but does anyone else here notice great quantities of testosterone zinging across this thread?

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Correct me if I’m wrong, but does anyone else here notice great quantities of testosterone zinging across this thread?

No doubt you are correct says one of the offenders ;-)

No sense being dishonest about it, it wont make it any better,,,

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Correct me if I’m wrong, but does anyone else here notice great quantities of testosterone zinging across this thread?

Sue, I see only one way to settle this. A good old fashioned wild west duel. Here's how it will work. At high noon ITD and XCR show up at the Meredith docks in their boat of choice. Ten forum members are on the dock with 1 to 10 flash cards to flash their scores. Each boater shows their skill at holding a spot, docking, leaving the dock, and obstacle avoidance. I'll be on my paddle board and when they least expect it I'll dart out from behind the dock into their path. Winning score wins the thread argument.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

Sue, I see only one way to settle this. A good old fashioned wild west duel. Here's how it will work. At high noon ITD and XCR show up at the Meredith docks in their boat of choice. Ten forum members are on the dock with 1 to 10 flash cards to flash their scores. Each boater shows their skill at holding a spot, docking, leaving the dock, and obstacle avoidance. I'll be on my paddle board and when they least expect it I'll dart out from behind the dock into their path. Winning score wins the thread argument.

Please,,, And in reality thats counter to my point that such skills do not exist in the common boater.

If you are serious then lets get serious,,,

I propose Spitballs at 10 paces using the big plastic straws from Sawyers (non-biodegradable)

The first to grimace is the loser!

The loser must then stand at the end of a Meredith dock holding a sign with the opponents position for 15 minutes at high noon without a hat or sunglasses and no one can bring him water for the entire time!

The signs would read: Safe for Paddle Boarders OR Paddle Boarders Please Stay Back 20 feet

The battle would continue until someone loses, or either or both run out of spit.

In the event of a draw, the parties will paddle board blindfolded in front of the Meredith docks at their choice of zero feet or 20' distance until someone has an unsafe encounter with a boat, at which time a victor will be declared, or until such time as either party concedes the other is right; no buffer needed, or some buffer is safer.

Admission can be charged for spectators and donations accepted to fund an injured paddle boarder recovery trust.

All in favor of this plan can signify by clicking thanks for this singular post.

And with this I think we have said more than enough (I hope)

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

And with this I think we have said more than enough (I hope)

Or maybe we could ask FLL to jump in and help us out by inserting noodles into the duel,,,

[ITD]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

Sue, I see only one way to settle this. A good old fashioned wild west duel. Here's how it will work. At high noon ITD and XCR show up at the Meredith docks in their boat of choice. Ten forum members are on the dock with 1 to 10 flash cards to flash their scores. Each boater shows their skill at holding a spot, docking, leaving the dock, and obstacle avoidance. I'll be on my paddle board and when they least expect it I'll dart out from behind the dock into their path. Winning score wins the thread argument.

I wouldn't hit ya!

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Correct me if I’m wrong, but does anyone else here notice great quantities of testosterone zinging across this thread?

...and nobody's mentioned "maintaining a proper watch".

...yet...

[fatlazyless]

..... paddleboarder ...... what paddleboarder ..... I didn't see NO paddleboarder ..... where is this paddleboarder and what the heck happened here! ...... ..... me-thinks I need another drink ..... and need to hit the throttle and get out of here ....... fast!

[ApS]

At least, with a paddleboard, there is only one likely to suffer injury.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by ApS

At least, with a paddleboard, there is only one likely to suffer injury.

Plus the dog or the little kid who rides along as a passenger...OK going past my place, but not smart next to public docks where this thread stared.

[Phantom]

Well -- your going to love this one.

Last Saturday afternoon as we were leaving Meredith, when we got about halfway out of the NWZ I noticed something "bobbing" about 100 yards beyond the buoy. Couldn't quite discern what it could be until closer to the NWZ Buoy and figured out it was two young guys laying flat on their paddle boards and just swimming !!

Incoming boats to Meredith, especially larger cruisers would clearly be coming off plane at that range (with bow up) and never see these two. I could not just pass by without having words with the boys about the danger they were putting themselves in as well as others (done in a very polite tone - my wife is my witness) -- naturally I received some language back yet it appeared that 5 min after my departure, they must have grasped the situation and began heading back inside the NWZ--- of course the (2) 35 foot cruisers inbound may have helped too


and YES - these were Rental boards!

[tis]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Well -- your going to love this one.

Last Saturday afternoon as we were leaving Meredith, when we got about halfway out of the NWZ I noticed something "bobbing" about 100 yards beyond the buoy. Couldn't quite discern what it could be until closer to the NWZ Buoy and figured out it was two young guys laying flat on their paddle boards and just swimming !!

Incoming boats to Meredith, especially larger cruisers would clearly be coming off plane at that range (with bow up) and never see these two. I could not just pass by without having words with the boys about the danger they were putting themselves in as well as others (done in a very polite tone - my wife is my witness) -- naturally I received some language back yet it appeared that 5 min after my departure, they must have grasped the situation and began heading back inside the NWZ--- of course the (2) 35 foot cruisers inbound may have helped too


and YES - these were Rental boards!

You mean they didn't tell you that you don't own the lake?

[LikeLakes]

Again, I reject the notion that nearly anyone operating a 30 plus foot boat is incapable of seeing a 12 ft. long plank with a person on it.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

Again, I reject the notion that nearly anyone operating a 30 plus foot boat is incapable of seeing a 12 ft. long plank with a person on it.

See them or not -- laying flat on a paddleboard 100 yards just outside the NWZ & swimming does not make a whole lot of common sense to me. This was not off towards a shoreline by the way - it was dead center in the Bay. We all know that on a Saturday that area is choppy.

and YES, i know - they have every right to be there.

[LikeLakes]

BTW, you mention they were "young guys". What would your guess be on age? If they were 12 or 13 I might have done similar to you, maybe stop by and ask if everything was ok. If 17-18 I think I'd leave them alone.

[Phantom]

early teens !

[chasedawg]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Well -- your going to love this one.

Last Saturday afternoon as we were leaving Meredith, when we got about halfway out of the NWZ I noticed something "bobbing" about 100 yards beyond the buoy. Couldn't quite discern what it could be until closer to the NWZ Buoy and figured out it was two young guys laying flat on their paddle boards and just swimming !!

Incoming boats to Meredith, especially larger cruisers would clearly be coming off plane at that range (with bow up) and never see these two. I could not just pass by without having words with the boys about the danger they were putting themselves in as well as others (done in a very polite tone - my wife is my witness) -- naturally I received some language back yet it appeared that 5 min after my departure, they must have grasped the situation and began heading back inside the NWZ--- of course the (2) 35 foot cruisers inbound may have helped too


and YES - these were Rental boards!

This evening we cruised up to Melvin Bay to watch the sunset. There were several boats watching with running lights on. As we decided to leave and cruise back I noticed 4 objects floating not far from us. We cruised over and discovered there were four paddle boards floating. One girl had a puppy on board. Another had two girls on one board. Another had a girl by herself. The other paddle board had a guy probably in his late 20's.. couldn't tell it was getting too dark. They were all out the way out in the middle of Melvin bay and Black island.

We stopped and told them that is very difficult to see them. "You are in a dangerous situation and said any watercraft must having nav lights after dusk." You guys have nothing to show that you out here in the middle of the bay. I suggested I would follow them to a closer area to shore. They said in a few words "don't worry we are ok and that they weren't concerned. And thank you for interest." But no need for your help!

[ITD]

Originally Posted by chasedawg

This evening we cruised up to Melvin Bay to watch the sunset. There were several boats watching with running lights on. As we decided to leave and cruise back I noticed 4 objects floating not far from us. We cruised over and discovered there were four paddle boards floating. One girl had a puppy on board. Another had two girls on one board. Another had a girl by herself. The other paddle board had a guy probably in his late 20's.. couldn't tell it was getting too dark. They were all out the way out in the middle of Melvin bay and Black island.

We stopped and told them that is very difficult to see them. "You are in a dangerous situation and said any watercraft must having nav lights after dusk." You guys have nothing to show that you out here in the middle of the bay. I suggested I would follow them to a closer area to shore. They said in a few words "don't worry we are ok and that they weren't concerned. And thank you for interest." But no need for your help!

You can't fix stupid. There is already a law that they must have a white light and through ignorance or sheer stupidity they ignore it.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by ITD

Holy cow, how about not setting yourself up for the error in the first place?


Lol, how you can so mistake my words and comments is telling, have a good one.

You can keep finding ways to twist the matter all you want, the bottom line there was a crash and an injury!

Fact, many boaters on Winnipesaukee will never meet your standards for an operator.

Fact, we sell 50 MPH power boats to anyone who can pay cash or who has credit but may never have ever set foot in a boat.

Fact, boat registration does not require you to provide a license showing you know anything about boat safety.

Fact, a boat license does not require you to demonstrate you can actually operate a boat safely.

Fact, we rent boats to people who may never have set foot onto a boat, AND worse yet, they no longer even offer them insurance,,,

Fact, we rent paddle boards to people who have no experience with them or around boats/docks.

Fact, when a boat collides with a paddle board, there is likely to be an injury!

If that all is not enough to convince you that asking paddle boards to keep 20' from public boat docks is reasonable, then its ok by me that you disagree, but I remain convinced it would be safer if they were separated by some modest distance.

You can point to all the responsibilities you want and all the capabilities you think boaters should have, but the reality is thats not our world and accidents are a risk when you allow boats and paddle boards in and around public boat docks at the same time.

Is there really anything more to say about this? I'll bet on it.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

You can keep finding ways to twist the matter all you want, the bottom line there was a crash and an injury!

Fact, many boaters on Winnipesaukee will never meet your standards for an operator.

Fact, we sell 50 MPH power boats to anyone who can pay cash or who has credit but may never have ever set foot in a boat.

Fact, boat registration does not require you to provide a license showing you know anything about boat safety.

Fact, a boat license does not require you to demonstrate you can actually operate a boat safely.

Fact, we rent boats to people who may never have set foot onto a boat, AND worse yet, they no longer even offer them insurance,,,

Fact, we rent paddle boards to people who have no experience with them or around boats/docks.

Fact, when a boat collides with a paddle board, there is likely to be an injury!

If that all is not enough to convince you that asking paddle boards to keep 20' from public boat docks is reasonable, then its ok by me that you disagree, but I remain convinced it would be safer if they were separated by some modest distance.

You can point to all the responsibilities you want and all the capabilities you think boaters should have, but the reality is thats not our world and accidents are a risk when you allow boats and paddle boards in and around public boat docks at the same time.

Is there really anything more to say about this? I'll bet on it.

You keep swinging and missing.

You want a rule to separate non powered lake users from powered lake users, but you yourself admit that you are afraid of your boat and have been for 50 years. How about one law that addresses the main issue, boaters who can't be bothered to learn how to control their boat, instead of forcing others out of the way of these boaters who probably shouldn't be there in the first place?

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by ITD

You keep swinging and missing.

You want a rule to separate non powered lake users from powered lake users, but you yourself admit that you are afraid of your boat and have been for 50 years. How about one law that addresses the main issue, boaters who can't be bothered to learn how to control their boat, instead of forcing others out of the way of these boaters who probably shouldn't be there in the first place?

..........

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by ITD

You keep swinging and missing.

You want a rule to separate non powered lake users from powered lake users, but you yourself admit that you are afraid of your boat and have been for 50 years. How about one law that addresses the main issue, boaters who can't be bothered to learn how to control their boat, instead of forcing others out of the way of these boaters who probably shouldn't be there in the first place?

We get those. Every so often more restrictions are placed on motorized users do to these interactions.

I don't think that HHH will ban motorized boating access to the Lakehouse, and doubt that Meredith would ban motorized boating access altogether... but odder things have happened.