First Cyanobacteria Warnings of 2024 Issued for Lake Winnipesaukee

[camp guy]

The RED signs indicating an "advisory" condition for cyanobacteria at certain beaches may prove to be interpreted as 'stay away from this beach', which could easily change the mind of parents thinking about a family day at the beach This could be the lead-in to real economic problems. Families will find other locations to spend their money. This should be a loud and clear wake-up call to the governments around the Lake, and the regulatory officials in Concord. The Lake is the engine that drives the economy in central NH, just like the mountains are what drive the economy in the north country.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by camp guy

The RED signs indicating an "advisory" condition for cyanobacteria at certain beaches may prove to be interpreted as 'stay away from this beach', which could easily change the mind of parents thinking about a family day at the beach This could be the lead-in to real economic problems. Families will find other locations to spend their money. This should be a loud and clear wake-up call to the governments around the Lake, and the regulatory officials in Concord. The Lake is the engine that drives the economy in central NH, just like the mountains are what drive the economy in the north country.

This comment is straight out of the original Jaws Movie. “Can’t close the beaches what of the tourists?”


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[Lake Winnipesaukee Alliance]

We've fielded many calls today regarding blooms observed all around the lake. NHDES has also received reports of blooms in the Broads, Center Harbor, and Governor's Island.

Bloom conditions are dynamic, potentially changing hourly. Perform your self risk assessments by looking at the water for any unusual growth or discoloration, such as clouds, ribbons or flecks in the water prior to recreating. If you see anything suspicious or are uncertain, stay out of the water, and please keep pets out as well.

Warnings are issued by NHDES when cell counts exceed 70,000 cells/ml. Counts reported today at the Broads were 80,500 dolichospermum off of Rattlesnake Island, 245,000 cells dolichospermum at Sleepers Point.

Counts at the Center Harbor town beach were 847,000 cells dolichospernum, Additional bloom reports were received for Salmon Meadow Cove and between Avery and Cook's Point.

Sample analysis for the Moultonborough town beach reported 394,000 cells/ml dolichospermum, and Hermit Cove at 476,000 cells/ml.

Additional samples were reviewed from Winter Harbor, Jockey Cove, Sewall Road area and Wolfeboro Bay, all in Wolfeboro.

To stay up to date on these warnings, you shoud sign up for NHDES Waterbody Specific Notifications. You can check the status of the warnings and alerts using the Healthy Swimming Mapper. If you suspect a bloom, please use the NHDES Reporting Tool and contact LWA.

As Cyanobacteria blooms become a more frequent topic of conversation with your friends and family please take the opportunity to tell them about LWA’s work on this issue, and remember, "When in doubt, stay out!"

NHDES will be resampling the areas that had warnings implemented on 6/12 as well as additional areas around the lake tomorrow

Bree Rossiter
Conservation Program Manager

[chachee52]

I would never have thought that after such a windy day on Saturday and the deep water of Broads would have this issue, but LSP now have the blooms. I have noticed that in the last 8-10 yrs the algae on the rocks/sand have increased significantly. We never had snails on the broads there, and now they are everywhere. Not saying that is was is causing these blooms, but the water temp has definitely increased since I was a kid, and the ice is NO WHERE near the coverage. This all helps not killing things in the lake. How, that's not for me to explain or decide, but it is in my mind a true factor. Sad to see the lake get this "ill" from what it used to be. No matter what anyone thinks is the reason, it is just sad.

[ApS]

I see it as "A Perfect Storm".

1) The lake's level has been kept artificially high, causing waves (but especially wakes) to reach deeper into the sub-soils which have sequestered tons of phosphorus and nitrogen.

The justified call for a "no-wake" condition was never made.

(I've edited/moved the above to "cause #1").

2) Recent Lake Kanasatka's obvious blooms "seeded" the Big Lake last season.

(Apply "Occam's Razor" to Lake Kanasatka's adjacent septics problem)..

3) No recent breezes to dilute blooms, so hot surface waters are quietly "cooking the broth".

4).Last season's heavy rains have washed countless (and distant) green lawns' fertilizers into the greater Winnipesaukee Basin.

5) Pine-tree pollen, which slows the normal mixing and dilution of Spring's lakefront waters is occurring presently--warming surface waters.

6) A hot seasonal weather pattern which encourages biological growth is upon us and likely to put a synergistic action into this mess.

7) This is not to mention the sandbar problem.

Salts, from water softening devices, road salt, natural erosion and urine will "gravitate" to the depths. Evaporation of pure water vapor concentrates these various salts.

Lakeport drains surface waters when it should have a long pipe drawing water from the deepest parts of the lake. IMHO.

Primarily a cod-like fish of the cold and salty Atlantic Ocean, Cusk nonetheless thrive in Lake Winnipesaukee's depths.

On this rainy day, I reorganized the file cabinet. In my "Environment" file, I stumbled across a Swiss study that found prescription statins in their ground water. Switzerland doesn't manufacture statins, and the study is 20 years old!

8) In former years, snow on thick ice cover kept our waters from "solar gain".

This past winter scarcely rated an "Ice-In".

9) Due to an exotic disease, the lake's many Eastern Hemlock trees are experiencing a major loss of their stubby needles. Throwing needles (leaf-blower fashion) into the lake, does this affect acidity?

10) Phosphorus is one of many chemicals that are used in fireworks' aerial displays.

https://www.thoughtco.com/elements-in-fireworks-607342

I'd shelve that concern for now, as a huge number of northern-tier lakes can be affected by this byproduct.

Injuries from fireworks are bad enough, so restrictions on excessive recreational fireworks need to be studied.

11) Drilled wells have "robbed" from the pure springs that feed the lake. Camps from the 1950s drew their water from the lake. For whatever purpose, that water got filtered in the deep soils below leach fields.

Evaporation can be fierce on windy days--concentrating impurities, nutrients and Cyanobacteria in our waters.

.

12) Cleaning your boat:

"These tips don’t just apply to washing your boat in the lake but also to washing your pets and yourself. We urge you to do a little research into the products you’re using and remind yourself that a “green” label may increase the odds of a green lake. Do all your washing away from the lake, and use clean, drain, dry practices so we can Keep Winni Blue"
--WMUR

ETA:
With this Memorial Day Weekend's very high waters and huge wakes, I observed being unable to see my feet even ten feet from shore! These abusive wakes are seriously eroding the banks of Lake Winnipesaukee...!

13) Black "bathtub rings" have returned.

While Winter Harbor shorelines sport two prominent rings (which correspond to the beginning and end of the boating season) the Wolfeboro town docks display a single (and thick) broad band.

Someone of high school age could take and chemically examine a sample. Make the test a "presumptive" test for petroleum. My suspicion is the rings are primarily of petroleum deposition and are:

a) composed of asphalt leaching from roadways. Because of fairly recent extensive cutting of trees near utility poles, heavy rains can strike the roadways harder, eroding the surface more readily.

Asphalt house shingles also produce asphalt leaching.

b) grease seeping from powerboat lower units.

c) Oils deposited from sunblock lotions.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by ApS

I see it as "A Perfect Storm".

1) Last season's heavy rains have washed countless (and distant) green lawns' fertilizers into the greater Winnipesaukee Basin.

2) Recent Lake Kanasatka's obvious blooms "seeded" the Big Lake last season.
(Apply "Occam's Razor" to their problem nearby).

3) No recent breezes to dilute blooms, so hot surface waters are quietly "cooking the broth".

4) The lake's level has been kept artificially high, causing waves (but especially wakes) to reach deeper into the sub-soils which have sequestered tons of phosphorus and nitrogen.

5) Pine-tree pollen, which slows the normal mixing and dilution of Spring's lakefront waters is occurring presently--as normal.

6) A hot seasonal weather pattern which encourages biological growth is upon us and likely to put a synergistic action into this mess.

7) This is not to mention the sandbar problem.

Great post APS! I agree with this 100% except for #7. I don't think people swimming (or peeing!) at sandbars has anything to do with algae blooms. #1 through #6 are spot on in my humble opinion however...

I see a lot of people on facebook are mis-identifying cyanobacteria as pollen. Pollen is all over the top of the lake (all lakes) right now and is nothing to worry about as it happens every year at this time...

Dan

[retired]

What is the danger of putting my feet in the water if there is a high level of cyanobacteria? Does it affect the skin? It's very hot today and a dip in the lake is needed. Can I go up to my shoulders? Do I need to shower after? Some facts please!

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by retired

What is the danger of putting my feet in the water if there is a high level of cyanobacteria? Does it affect the skin? It's very hot today and a dip in the lake is needed. Can I go up to my shoulders? Do I need to shower after? Some facts please!

Terrific question. It’s always been around. Testing has become better and many more “eyes” around. It’s here deal with it as you wish


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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by retired

What is the danger of putting my feet in the water if there is a high level of cyanobacteria? Does it affect the skin? It's very hot today and a dip in the lake is needed. Can I go up to my shoulders? Do I need to shower after? Some facts please!

For some it will cause a rash.
Cuts or other abrasions would not be that great...
But ingesting it or getting into your mucus membranes by inhaling water vapor can also have some strong consequences depending on your sensitivity.

[tis]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

For some it will cause a rash.
Cuts or other abrasions would not be that great...
But ingesting it or getting into your mucus membranes by inhaling water vapor can also have some strong consequences depending on your sensitivity.

And if you don't see any where you swim is it ok to go in?

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by tis

And if you don't see any where you swim is it ok to go in?

My unprofessional opinion would be yes...

Dan

[John Mercier]

Avoid where they have placed warnings.
If you can visually see a bloom (not pollen just floating), that is usually a very high rate and probably is either in a warning area or soon will be.

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Great post APS! I agree with this 100% except for #7. I don't think people swimming (or peeing!) at sandbars has anything to do with algae blooms. #1 through #6 are spot on in my humble opinion however...

Peeing in the lake may not be a cause of cyanobacteria, but it is certainly causes the water quality to decline. Think of all the medications that people take and the birth-control pills that women use. If you are peeing, you are also adding all this to the lake. Certainly can’t be good for the fish and other creatures.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

Peeing in the lake may not be a cause of cyanobacteria, but it is certainly causes the water quality to decline. Think of all the medications that people take and the birth-control pills that women use. If you are peeing, you are also adding all this to the lake. Certainly can’t be good for the fish and other creatures.

Just the thought of swimming at a crowded sand bar grosses me out!
But obviously, many people love swimming in warm pee.

[8gv]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Just the thought of swimming at a crowded sand bar grosses me out!
But obviously, many people love swimming in warm pee.

I hear it's an acquired taste...

[sky's]

its good to see some mature people have accepted the facts. The fact that man with the big egos have been ruining this lake for years. now bring on the beautiful condos like the new mess next to Cumberland farms towards Weirs Beach omg. we recently ran out of Moultonboro after 24 years and now reside in nice peacful Sandwhich. Sandwhich is what Moultonboro use to be like 24 years ago. real New England People that trust and do business on a hand shake. the lake is just the tip of the ice burg folks sorry for the reality check. best wishes to all.

[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by sky's

its good to see some mature people have accepted the facts. The fact that man with the big egos have been ruining this lake for years. now bring on the beautiful condos like the new mess next to Cumberland farms towards Weirs Beach omg. we recently ran out of Moultonboro after 24 years and now reside in nice peacful Sandwhich. Sandwhich is what Moultonboro use to be like 24 years ago. real New England People that trust and do business on a hand shake. the lake is just the tip of the ice burg folks sorry for the reality check. best wishes to all.

It’s sad that the rules of capitalization elude even some of the self-proclaimed mature people.

Thankfully, divergent opinions about any number of things don’t correlate with maturity level. The truly mature understand and “accept”this “fact.”


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[tis]

It's nice to see so many experts who know exactly what is causing this.

[winterh]

I am no expert on this matter but it seems to me like there are many causes that contribute to the problem. Some would be easier to solve than others. Old leaking septics and lush green lawns seem to be well within our power to fix. I am not proposing we adopt these methods but I see the crazy environmentalist stop oil types who throw paint on famous works of art or more recently on Stonehenge to protest. Makes me think a similar approach to some of the bigger greener lawns on the lake might work. It should be a source of shame to have a lush green lawn on the lake not something to be proud of.

[tis]

Originally Posted by winterh

I am no expert on this matter but it seems to me like there are many causes that contribute to the problem. Some would be easier to solve than others. Old leaking septics and lush green lawns seem to be well within our power to fix. I am not proposing we adopt these methods but I see the crazy environmentalist stop oil types who throw paint on famous works of art or more recently on Stonehenge to protest. Makes me think a similar approach to some of the bigger greener lawns on the lake might work. It should be a source of shame to have a lush green lawn on the lake not something to be proud of.

My lawn is green and I am proud of it and don't use fertilizer or sprinkle it. Yes, it usually gets brown in August but the rest of the time it looks pretty nice. It was originally an old cow field. How many places were cow fields in the old days?

[winterh]

I think there is a difference between having a naturally growing lawn thats a mix of grass, clovers, weeds... but looks nice when cut (I have one myself) and having a perfectly manicured lush green obviously fertilized lawn that looks like a golf course. It's pretty easy to tell who is using fertilizer and who is not.

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by winterh

I think there is a difference between having a naturally growing lawn thats a mix of grass, clovers, weeds... but looks nice when cut (I have one myself) and having a perfectly manicured lush green obviously fertilized lawn that looks like a golf course. It's pretty easy to tell who is using fertilizer and who is not.

This is so true! I don’t use any fertilizer on my lawn and try to pull as many weeds by hand as possible. By having a mix in your lawn, you do not need to add fertilizer.

[John Mercier]

Slightly...

There are a lot more non-phosphorous fertilizer options for lawns... as nitrogen is really what the turf grass wants - that is what makes it green.
The clover mix adds the nitrogen... so it reduces the need for additional.

Blooms are the effect of phosphorous...
The situation with the lakefront lawn is really more a matter of how well it slows a downpour reducing the amount of anything being carried into the lake.

That, and they can attract geese that love the salad with the sight line to shrubbery being far enough back to provide some protection from predation.

The geese will add manure with phosphorous that can be washed in.

[Grant]

Another problem with lawns is that grass has very shallow root structures, and is a very poor filter for runoff. More runoff = more nutrient for blooms. Natural, native vegetation is far more effective in reducing runoff into the lake. It's not just fertilized lawns that help promote cyanobacteria blooms. Cyanobacteria occurs naturally -- almost everywhere. There's lots in the average shovelful of topsoil. And it's always in the lake. Not all varieties are toxic, but many are. But the combination of excess nutrients and warmer water causes these big blooms. More nutrients + More warm water = blooms of greater frequency, magnitude and duration.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by winterh

I think there is a difference between having a naturally growing lawn thats a mix of grass, clovers, weeds... but looks nice when cut (I have one myself) and having a perfectly manicured lush green obviously fertilized lawn that looks like a golf course. It's pretty easy to tell who is using fertilizer and who is not.

Absolutely! I have the same type of "lawn" at my island camp. It's green, never gets fertilized and the dog certainly does not seem to mind pooping and peeing on it!

I planted it 16 years ago by basically throwing out the cheapest grass seed Sam's Club sold, just threw it on the island sand that was washing in the lake every rain storm. Well if that seed didn't sprout like wildfire and in no time by just watering it. It's been holding everything together and has completely stopped the erosion that was occurring previously...again without a speck of fertilizer!

Dan

[tis]

It must be a wonderful clover year because it has taken over most of my lawn this year. I have been wondering why.

[tis]

Originally Posted by winterh

I think there is a difference between having a naturally growing lawn thats a mix of grass, clovers, weeds... but looks nice when cut (I have one myself) and having a perfectly manicured lush green obviously fertilized lawn that looks like a golf course. It's pretty easy to tell who is using fertilizer and who is not.

True except there is a fertilizer that is safe.

[imyourhuckleberry]

I am in the lawn care industry and am very familiar with the problem of fertilizers.
You don't have to use chemicals to have a nice lawn. You can use low nitrogen, zero phosphorus, slow release inputs and have a great lawn. So i wouldn't immediately assume anyone with a great lawn next to the lake is part of the problem. Though they're suspect.
Readily available sources of Nitrogen in the towns surrounding the lake seems like a big problem. I was in a local hardware store today and found all of the usual brands with synthetic nitrogen and phosphorus-heavy starter fertilizers readily available.

As long as there no ordinances in place to ban N and P apps in these towns, people will continue to over-apply these elements to their lawn and they will run off into the lake. This is, at least in part, a failure of local town government.

[John Mercier]

It is actually State law.
And we can't sell anything in NH that violates State law...

We just can't stop homeowners and professionals from violating the law.

[YOLO]

….. nevermind

[imyourhuckleberry]

Then we can't have nice things.

If people can't act responsibly then they cant have access to the stuff thats causing the issue.

I read the law and its pretty soft. Eg, there's exceptions for people "growing new lawns" which allows stores to stock high phosphorus fertilizers. Leaving it up to the discretion of homeowners never actually works.

Time to update that law huh?

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by tis

It's nice to see so many experts who know exactly what is causing this.

We spend more money on studies than we do on remediation. Then, when we finally decide to do something, the price has gone up so much that we can't get the funding.

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by Biggd

We spend more money on studies than we do on remediation. Then, when we finally decide to do something, the price has gone up so much that we can't get the funding.

This might be true in some cases but there are recent examples where the process worked. For example, in the M'boro Bay sub-watershed, about $40K was spent on the study - which identified the problem spots and over 40 projects that would reduce phosphorus level. Over the past eight years, the town DPW has used that plan to get grants and work through the project list. In another case, about $70K was spent studying the cyano problem in Kanasatka which resulted in over $500,000K spent on remediation. The common thread here is the Lake Winnipesaukee Association. They are good at making plans and even better at using the plans to obtain grants for projects. No plan, no grant - so money needs to be spent on studies. The trick is rapid follow-up.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Lake Winnipesaukee Assoc

We've fielded many calls today regarding blooms observed all around the lake. NHDES has also received reports of blooms in the Broads, Center Harbor, and Governor's Island.

Bloom conditions are dynamic, potentially changing hourly. Perform your self risk assessments by looking at the water for any unusual growth or discoloration, such as clouds, ribbons or flecks in the water prior to recreating. If you see anything suspicious or are uncertain, stay out of the water, and please keep pets out as well.

Warnings are issued by NHDES when cell counts exceed 70,000 cells/ml. Counts reported today at the Broads were 80,500 dolichospermum off of Rattlesnake Island, 245,000 cells dolichospermum at Sleepers Point.

Counts at the Center Harbor town beach were 847,000 cells dolichospernum, Additional bloom reports were received for Salmon Meadow Cove and between Avery and Cook's Point.

Sample analysis for the Moultonborough town beach reported 394,000 cells/ml dolichospermum, and Hermit Cove at 476,000 cells/ml.

Additional samples were reviewed from Winter Harbor, Jockey Cove, Sewall Road area and Wolfeboro Bay, all in Wolfeboro.

To stay up to date on these warnings, you shoud sign up for NHDES Waterbody Specific Notifications. You can check the status of the warnings and alerts using the Healthy Swimming Mapper. If you suspect a bloom, please use the NHDES Reporting Tool and contact LWA.

As Cyanobacteria blooms become a more frequent topic of conversation with your friends and family please take the opportunity to tell them about LWA’s work on this issue, and remember, "When in doubt, stay out!"

NHDES will be resampling the areas that had warnings implemented on 6/12 as well as additional areas around the lake tomorrow

Bree Rossiter
Conservation Program Manager

So you are saying look before you swim, that it's obvious if it's there? We don't have to all stay out of the water entirely? Do you know when they started testing for cyanobacteria?

[welch100]

Originally Posted by camp guy

This should be a loud and clear wake-up call to the governments around the Lake, and the regulatory officials in Concord. The Lake is the engine that drives the economy in central NH, just like the mountains are what drive the economy in the north country.

We all need to contact our legislators NOW!

[winterh]

This thread got me wondering how many current lakefront owners would be in favor of tougher regulations on what they could do with their property provided it was proven it would help water quality. Just as an example, would you be opposed to rules which prohibit lawns within 50ft or even made people get rid of lawns they have now in favor of natural woodland buffers? How far would you be willing to go to ensure the lake remains as is or hopefully improves? I have a small lawn but if required to remove it and plant blueberry bushes to save the lake then I would start digging it up today. This is coming from someone who is as anti govt regulation and libertarian as they come but when it comes to the lake I seem to have a hard time with that philosophy. Also, are the regulations tougher on Squam and do they have the same issues?

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by winterh

This thread got me wondering how many current lakefront owners would be in favor of tougher regulations on what they could do with their property provided it was proven it would help water quality. Just as an example, would you be opposed to rules which prohibit lawns within 50ft or even made people get rid of lawns they have now in favor of natural woodland buffers? How far would you be willing to go to ensure the lake remains as is or hopefully improves? I have a small lawn but if required to remove it and plant blueberry bushes to save the lake then I would start digging it up today. This is coming from someone who is as anti govt regulation and libertarian as they come but when it comes to the lake I seem to have a hard time with that philosophy. Also, are the regulations tougher on Squam and do they have the same issues?

Squam is a whole different animal.
Unfortunately, we can't turn back time and turn Winni into Squam.
That train has left the station!

[Descant]

Originally Posted by winterh

This thread got me wondering how many current lakefront owners would be in favor of tougher regulations on what they could do with their property provided it was proven it would help water quality. Just as an example, would you be opposed to rules which prohibit lawns within 50ft or even made people get rid of lawns they have now in favor of natural woodland buffers? How far would you be willing to go to ensure the lake remains as is or hopefully improves? I have a small lawn but if required to remove it and plant blueberry bushes to save the lake then I would start digging it up today. This is coming from someone who is as anti govt regulation and libertarian as they come but when it comes to the lake I seem to have a hard time with that philosophy. Also, are the regulations tougher on Squam and do they have the same issues?

Why would you start planting blueberries only if required? You should be out there with your shovel now, planting according to NH DES guidelines.

[winterh]

Originally Posted by Descant

Why would you start planting blueberries only if required? You should be out there with your shovel now, planting according to NH DES guidelines.

I have done some and should do more but my little 1/4 acre lot will not change things. Every parcel on the lake probably would help. I am not saying it should be required. Just wondering how people would feel if it was. Do you think it would make a difference? Would you be willing to do it if it would?

[ITD]

Lawns on Winnipesaukee have been around fora long, long time. What do you suppose has changed in the last 10 to 15 years that might be contributing to this issue?

[tis]

Originally Posted by ITD

Lawns on Winnipesaukee have been around fora long, long time. What do you suppose has changed in the last 10 to 15 years that might be contributing to this issue?

Great question. And what about when it was almost all fields and cows?

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by ITD

Lawns on Winnipesaukee have been around fora long, long time. What do you suppose has changed in the last 10 to 15 years that might be contributing to this issue?

Not the kind of lawns you see today. When I was a kid, no one fertilized their lawns, they were just natural grass and weeds. No one had landscapers, everyone cut their own grass. No one had underground sprinkler systems, we dragged out the hose and sprinkler and ran through it while it was on the front lawn. The back yard never saw water unless it rained!
But nice lawns are only one of many contributors to the deterioration of the lake.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by ITD

Lawns on Winnipesaukee have been around fora long, long time. What do you suppose has changed in the last 10 to 15 years that might be contributing to this issue?

More development... and definitely stronger downpours.
But the phosphorous builds up... so it was happening all along and has finally gotten to the point it is.

[Susie Cougar]

Are the original warnings still in effect?

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

Are the original warnings still in effect?

Great question. I was thinking the same thing when I drove past 19 Mile Bay Beach and didn’t see any warnings posted and no one in the water. Does state require hazard warning postings when the get readings above the limits?


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[barefootbay]

Start trapping and removing geese . They are a major contributor to phosphorus pollution. The have become an invasive species !

[SAB1]

Originally Posted by barefootbay

Start trapping and removing geese . They are a major contributor to phosphorus pollution. The have become an invasive species !

I don’t think that legal unless you remove them with a shotgun during hunting season.

[Lake Fan]

Originally Posted by SAB1

I don’t think that legal unless you remove them with a shotgun during hunting season.

First rule of removing geese: Don't talk about removing geese.

[John Mercier]

Well, the phosphorous in the lake is going to be in the lake for a very long time... and new phosphorous is going to enter the lake.

Those are just facts.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by ITD

Lawns on Winnipesaukee have been around for a long, long time. What do you suppose has changed in the last 10 to 15 years that might be contributing to this issue?

1. More dense development. Years ago, only shorefront was developed. Now, there is full development three and more levels back. We have a better knowledge of the effects of storm water runoff, but the over development has already been done. The Winnipesaukee River sewer program (1970's) made a big step forward, but it mostly covers the western side of the lake. Similar projects would help smaller lakes, and the east side, but Fed $$ is gone.

2. Contamination and eutrophication are slow and cumulative, followed by more and better testing. So things were happening some decades ago, but we just didn't have the same awareness.

3. Are the geese a part of the problem? Not many geese around 10-15 years ago.

[ITD]

What about higher lake levels, especially over the last few years and bigger wakes?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Descant

1. More dense development. Years ago, only shorefront was developed. Now, there is full development three and more levels back. We have a better knowledge of the effects of storm water runoff, but the over development has already been done. The Winnipesaukee River sewer program (1970's) made a big step forward, but it mostly covers the western side of the lake. Similar projects would help smaller lakes, and the east side, but Fed $$ is gone.

2. Contamination and eutrophication are slow and cumulative, followed by more and better testing. So things were happening some decades ago, but we just didn't have the same awareness.

3. Are the geese a part of the problem? Not many geese around 10-15 years ago.

Every season, I hear chainsaws and chippers behind the front row of shorefront development but can't see them. The latest chipper was working real hard on some seriously large trees.

I have a 2001 document that says this lot (my neighbor's) shouldn't be built on. There's a cluster of Maples on that lot that have exposed roots like Miami Banyan Trees! The two lawyers arranged to share their neighbor's septic leach field and, after moving in, converted a garage to a bedroom. (!)

When gentle breezes come from the west, some days the air is distinctly aromatic. The Health Department has twice found no violations so I'm wondering if today's standard NH leach field designs (copied from Massachusetts' designs) are outdated.

A friend's house in Winter Harbor's steep Port Wedeln regularly suffered leach field exposures--mostly flooding from a neighbor's lot uphill. His place was sold recently, but unsure at this date if the rain-flooding issue was completely addressed.

This site says a leach field that is older than 50 years should be replaced:

Drain Field Age
While a properly maintained drain field is designed to last up to 50 years, it’s not likely that it will last much longer than that. If you’re experiencing symptoms of drain field failure and you know that your drain field is getting up there in age, it might be wise to begin to budget for a drain field replacement.

https://www.angi.com/articles/what-is-drain-field.htm

[JayR]

In our little corner, there is a patch of poison ivy mixing with the grass that has been slowly advancing over the years. But, we have refrained from spraying it and will continue to protect the lake. We have some grass but do not use any chemicals on it...some years it is green, some years it is brown. If the science shows that this problem will go away if all the grass goes away, then ... the grass must go away!! But I know the issues are multifaceted and the answers won't be easy. (I also know compliance will be a bitch because of the entitled attitude of some landowners, harrumph...)

But I sure hope we work together on this, the future may depend on it.

[welch100]

Originally Posted by winterh

This thread got me wondering how many current lakefront owners would be in favor of tougher regulations on what they could do with their property provided it was proven it would help water quality...Also, are the regulations tougher on Squam and do they have the same issues?

Regulations on Squam are tougher, and I don't think I have ever seen a cyanobacteria warning there. The history of Squam is quite instructive. From the Squam Lakes Association web page:

At the turn of the century, Squam was quite different from the scene we enjoy today. The surrounding mountains were cleared by logging, sawdust several feet thick had settled in many of the coves, driftwood made navigation hazardous, and refuse including tires, mattresses and dead animals, had been dumped in the lakes.

In 1904, the Squam Lakes Improvement Association was formed by a group of concerned landowners. In 1905, the association was legally incorporated as a non-profit conservation organization and renamed Squam Lakes Association (SLA). Initial efforts of the SLA were focused on eliminating pollution from the lakes, maintenance of the water level, boat safety, and navigation. Through cooperative relationships with local and state governments and the dedication of four generations of people who loved Squam, the watershed has been uniquely conserved.

Lakefront property owners should support the Lake Winnipesaukee Association (winnipesaukee.org) and NH Lakes (nhlakes.org). We need to contact our legislators to express our urgent concern and support for stronger regulations, as well as tougher enforcement of the laws. Individually, we must become more educated about how our decisions impact the lake we love and change some of our behaviors. NH Lakes' "Lake Smart" program is a great place to start, https://nhlakes.org/lakesmart/

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Meade

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by winterh

This thread got me wondering how many current lakefront owners would be in favor of tougher regulations on what they could do with their property provided it was proven it would help water quality. Just as an example, would you be opposed to rules which prohibit lawns within 50ft or even made people get rid of lawns they have now in favor of natural woodland buffers? How far would you be willing to go to ensure the lake remains as is or hopefully improves? I have a small lawn but if required to remove it and plant blueberry bushes to save the lake then I would start digging it up today. This is coming from someone who is as anti govt regulation and libertarian as they come but when it comes to the lake I seem to have a hard time with that philosophy. Also, are the regulations tougher on Squam and do they have the same issues?

I am a current lakefront owner with a shorefront and yard that meet all the recommended criteria (as others have noted, you can get these guidelines from Lake Winnipesaukee Association).

Short of moving my house, haha, I would support anything the state asked if there was a new rule proposed to protect the lake. The thing to consider with these rules is that like many things, you may not want to do them yourself, but you're grateful to live in a place where everybody else is doing them.

We really better do something, or we'll lose the lake we love

[winterh]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

you may not want to do them yourself, but you're grateful to live in a place where everybody else is doing them.

Thats a great way to frame it!

[tis]

Everything used to be fields. This is Forest Road.

[tis]

This is the end of Tuftonboro Neck.

[luckypete]

Originally Posted by tis

Attachment 18560

Everything used to be fields. This is Forest Road.

Hey Tis, thanks for the photo. Any idea on what year this was taken?
Thanks in advance,
LP

[tis]

Originally Posted by luckypete

Hey Tis, thanks for the photo. Any idea on what year this was taken?
Thanks in advance,
LP

I don't know the date of these photos but when I was young you could still see the lake, it was all fields. My mother told me the cows walked right down to the lake for a drink and there must have been lots of cows back in the day. Lots are complaining about the grass but there was so much more grass then.

[John Mercier]

Pasture. Pasture is different than lawns.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by tis

I don't know the date of these photos but when I was young you could still see the lake, it was all fields. My mother told me the cows walked right down to the lake for a drink and there must have been lots of cows back in the day. Lots are complaining about the grass but there was so much more grass then.

Hi tis!

As an fyi...during the late 1800's over 70% of all land in NH south of the white mountains had been deforested for logging and agricultural purposes. Almost all the islands on Winnipesaukee had been cleared of trees at one time or another for the same reason. Heck, Welch Island at one time was completely cleared and was a pasture for sheep! Currently NH is 83% forested...

Just food for thought...

Dan

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Hi tis!

As an fyi...during the late 1800's over 70% of all land in NH south of the white mountains had been deforested for logging and agricultural purposes. Almost all the islands on Winnipesaukee had been cleared of trees at one time or another for the same reason. Heck, Welch Island at one time was completely cleared and was a pasture for sheep! Currently NH is 83% forested...

Just food for thought...

Dan

Back then, the lake was so vast and never ending that people never saw the real value. You could buy an acre of land for $1 and the value was being able to cut down the trees. $1 an acre! I heard these stories back in the 1970s by an old man in his late 90s.

[John Mercier]

They saw the value of the time.
Powerboating didn't exist... so the lake didn't draw a lot of lakefront homes.
The land near the lake had a year-round water source, so the pasture was greener. Milking cows were the prime economic engine, and sheep would be placed in areas that the soils were less advantageous to tall pasture grass.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

Back then, the lake was so vast and never ending that people never saw the real value. You could buy an acre of land for $1 and the value was being able to cut down the trees. $1 an acre! I heard these stories back in the 1970s by an old man in his late 90s.

I remember my mother telling me that her great grandmother thought of the lake as nothing more than a watering hole for the cows. She said they called it the pond.

[tis]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Hi tis!

As an fyi...during the late 1800's over 70% of all land in NH south of the white mountains had been deforested for logging and agricultural purposes. Almost all the islands on Winnipesaukee had been cleared of trees at one time or another for the same reason. Heck, Welch Island at one time was completely cleared and was a pasture for sheep! Currently NH is 83% forested...

Just food for thought...

Dan

Exactly as the pictures show. It's amazing isn't it? So if the cows fertilized the fields why didn't it run into the lake and cause cyanobacteria? Or did it?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by tis

Exactly as the pictures show. It's amazing isn't it? So if the cows fertilized the fields why didn't it run into the lake and cause cyanobacteria? Or did it?

It most likely did run into the lake and increase nutrients, promoting stuff like cyanobacteria. But it did not cause cyanobacteria blooms like we have today because the total volume of nutrient flow into the lake was far, far less. Also, as John pointed out, nutrients can build up over years.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by tis

Exactly as the pictures show. It's amazing isn't it? So if the cows fertilized the fields why didn't it run into the lake and cause cyanobacteria? Or did it?

I'm sure there were issues back then tis, but no one was testing water back then either...

I know no one believes this or wants to believe it BUT the lake was a LOT more polluted back in the 50's 60's and 70's than it is now...Probably a good thing they didn't test the water back then!

We have come a long way with cleaning things up but still more needs to be done.

Dan

[SAB1]

It's all related to use. Just to many dwellings and people now. Lake is stressed. Kinda like you can only get so much in the septic tank before an issue arises. I know bad analogy. But IMO I place most of blame on the State. Poor regulation and enforcement on a variety of fronts.

[tis]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I'm sure there were issues back then tis, but no one was testing water back then either...

I know no one believes this or wants to believe it BUT the lake was a LOT more polluted back in the 50's 60's and 70's than it is now...Probably a good thing they didn't test the water back then!

We have come a long way with cleaning things up but still more needs to be done.

Dan

That's what I am thinking, that we didn't have the testing we have today. I believe you, we were told not to drink the water when we were kids. We have so many keyboard experts, I am tired of reading the same thing over and over. They are so sure it is cause by fertilizer or septic. I am sure there are many more reasons.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by tis

That's what I am thinking, that we didn't have the testing we have today. I believe you, we were told not to drink the water when we were kids. We have so many keyboard experts, I am tired of reading the same thing over and over. They are so sure it is cause by fertilizer or septic. I am sure there are many more reasons.

My personal belief is more phosphorus is introduced into the lake by homes that are not directly on the lake. Storm drains that dump untreated water from all the surrounding roads has to be a major issue.

Also, I live on route 11 and that entire stretch of road from Laconia to Alton Bay including Scenic Drive which runs parallel to route 11 and is directly on the water, is so heavily treated with salt and other various ice melting chemicals that I won’t even walk my dog down that road in the winter for fear of what it may do to her feet! That simply can’t be good for all that to wash directly into the lake!

Dan

[tis]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

My personal belief is more phosphorus is introduced into the lake by homes that are not directly on the lake. Storm drains that dump untreated water from all the surrounding roads has to be a major issue.

Also, I live on route 11 and that entire stretch of road from Laconia to Alton Bay including Scenic Drive which runs parallel to route 11 and is directly on the water, is so heavily treated with salt and other various ice melting chemicals that I won’t even walk my dog down that road in the winter for fear of what it may do to her feet! That simply can’t be good for all that to wash directly into the lake!

Dan

Exactly. I know Port Wedeln has a problem because the taxpayers were asked to spend something like $400, 000 to stop the water from running off into the lake and then upped it to around a million. And I am sure there are lots of others like that. As you said, chemicals can't help.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

My personal belief is more phosphorus is introduced into the lake by homes that are not directly on the lake. Storm drains that dump untreated water from all the surrounding roads has to be a major issue.

Also, I live on route 11 and that entire stretch of road from Laconia to Alton Bay including Scenic Drive which runs parallel to route 11 and is directly on the water, is so heavily treated with salt and other various ice melting chemicals that I won’t even walk my dog down that road in the winter for fear of what it may do to her feet! That simply can’t be good for all that to wash directly into the lake!

Dan

There's an LWA presentation that I saw years ago (it might be on the website?) that agrees with this. It described the towns around the lake forming a watershed, like a giant bowl, and everything in the bowl collects on the bottom.

I don't know about your pollution point in the 50s-70s, gratefully too young to remember, but I would not doubt this. Nixon started the EPA in the early 70s and that has done a lot with cars, boats, factories, etc. I am optimistic that we can beat this different kind of problem today

[John Mercier]

The 50s - 70s was more about the immediate effects of manure/septic.

We had a lot of E Coli issues (still do)... but those are different than phosphorous.

We can also DNA test the E Coli to determine, or at least narrow the scope, of the species that it came from.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

There's an LWA presentation that I saw years ago (it might be on the website?) that agrees with this. It described the towns around the lake forming a watershed, like a giant bowl, and everything in the bowl collects on the bottom.

I don't know about your pollution point in the 50s-70s, gratefully too young to remember, but I would not doubt this. Nixon started the EPA in the early 70s and that has done a lot with cars, boats, factories, etc. I am optimistic that we can beat this different kind of problem today

In the 1950s, our nextdoor neighbors on the lake installed a new device that washed dishes. How quaint just for a summer season. We still use the sink.

Later, we found out that to insure wine glasses were spotless afterwards, the content of dishwasher soap was "improved" by adding an extremely high level of Phosphorus. Phosphorus settled deeply into the latest leaching field designs which, 50 years later, are now far beyond their expected lifetime. Decades passed before Phosphorus was notably decreased in dishwasher detergents.

This season's artificially high water level is pulling the sequestered Phosphorus out from those lakefront subsoils into the lake.

Tuesday's strong winds broke up the concentrations of blue-green cyanobacteria.

It'll be back.