lake level

[NHskier]

Most recent DES report for Lakeport:

Winnipesaukee Operations
Saturday, September 6, 7 AM readings

The level of Lake Winnipesaukee is 502.24 (504.32 is full level).
The flow rate is 250 cfs.

That’s 25 inches down from full!

[Asloren1]

I think that’s a typo on the operations update page - based on the chart data, it should be 502.74 not 502.24 (see image).


If it was 502.24 then that would be a dramatic drop from the recent measurements

[ishoot308]

Pulled the pontoon and the Jet Ski over the weekend. Water was getting too low for the Jet Ski lift and the bow of the pontoon was starting to get too close to the bottom with only 4" + or - of water. With no rain in the forecast whatsoever for the next 10 days, it only made sense to do it now.

We have room for one boat at our dock so the Eastern will be staying in until we close camp late October / early November.

Short boating season this year thanks to Mother Nature!

Dan

[camp guy]

Sad day, I'm sorry, Dan.
David

[WinnisquamZ]

Never a sad day when one’s on the lake


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[tis]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Pulled the pontoon and the Jet Ski over the weekend. Water was getting too low for the Jet Ski lift and the bow of the pontoon was starting to get too close to the bottom with only 4" + or - of water. With no rain in the forecast whatsoever for the next 10 days, it only made sense to do it now.

We have room for one boat at our dock so the Eastern will be staying in until we close camp late October / early November.

Short boating season this year thanks to Mother Nature!

Dan

We had the same issue.

[LIforrelaxin]

Ok so the first time I am not missing the lake, I would have pulled my boat already..... Down here in Texas, Lake Ray Hubbard is full down less the half a foot, do to a unbelievable wet summer..... And at this point, we have survived the hottest part of the year, and now we are entering the enjoyable summer season.... so time for some boating....

I know I know not nice, but I just can't help it...... I miss New England and the lake.... but right now, with the low water not as much......

[ishoot308]

As of today, the lake is 18 3/4” below full pool….

Dan

[ApS]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Never a sad day when one’s on the lake

A neighbor's wake boat is off its hydraulic lift and out at the mooring. This mooring has kept his Jet-Ski safe all summer.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Pulled the pontoon and the Jet Ski over the weekend. Water was getting too low for the Jet Ski lift and the bow of the pontoon was starting to get too close to the bottom with only 4" + or - of water. With no rain in the forecast whatsoever for the next 10 days, it only made sense to do it now.

We have room for one boat at our dock so the Eastern will be staying in until we close camp late October / early November.

Short boating season this year thanks to Mother Nature!

Dan

Very sad day for you. We had to pull boat and jetskis the last day of August. Makes me sad for everyone who ordinarily enjoys September on the water…it’s a great time of year…..peaceful, not crowded, warm water, just perfect. Hopefully next season’s lake level won’t be a repeat of 2025. 🤞

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

As of today, the lake is 18 3/4” below full pool….

Dan

Just for clarity, the 40+ year mean (i.e."normal") level of the lake is 11" less than full pool at this time of year. The excess drop is 7 3/4". Bad enough, but not almost 19".

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by jeffk

Just for clarity, the 40+ year mean (i.e."normal") level of the lake is 11" less than full pool at this time of year. The excess drop is 7 3/4". Bad enough, but not almost 19".

Is this looking at the glass "half full" as opposed to "half empty"?

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by jeffk

Just for clarity, the 40+ year mean (i.e."normal") level of the lake is 11" less than full pool at this time of year. The excess drop is 7 3/4". Bad enough, but not almost 19".

As I stated, the lake is almost (18 3/4") below "full pool"...Full pool being elevation 504.32' I did not say from normal...Since "normal" is an average and fluctuates year to year and "full pool" is a given and determined elevation, most people only care about how low the lake is from full...at least I do.

Next years "average" will be lowered when they include this years low water level...

Dan

[Descant]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Ok so the first time I am not missing the lake, I would have pulled my boat already..... Down here in Texas, Lake Ray Hubbard is full down less the half a foot, do to a unbelievable wet summer..... And at this point, we have survived the hottest part of the year, and now we are entering the enjoyable summer season.... so time for some boating....

I know I know not nice, but I just can't help it...... I miss New England and the lake.... but right now, with the low water not as much......

I think these updates on Lake Ray Hubbard belong in the new paid members only section.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by jeffk

Just for clarity, the 40+ year mean (i.e."normal") level of the lake is 11" less than full pool at this time of year. The excess drop is 7 3/4". Bad enough, but not almost 19".

Is that the target? 11" below full pool at this time of year?

[BillTex]

As noted earlier, we are on another ( very nearby) dam controlled lake and are not having any of these issues.
Kind of curious isn’t it?

[John Mercier]

Which lake?
Is it part of the Winnipesaukee Watershed?

It may have a different management system based on those specific needs.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Is that the target? 11" below full pool at this time of year?

It is my understanding that they use the 40+ year mean as a guideline to aim for. Other factors also weigh in. For example, in the Spring, downstream flooding concerns may cause the dam management to let the lake to go higher than the "target". They draw down starting in June to gradually prepare for Spring snowmelt and rain but that is done over 6 months and may deviate for a while and recover later.

It is a good question if the mean, which reflects past management choices of the dam and the weather, is a "good" target. However, if not, what should it be? Any changes would have both positive and negative impacts in a complex system. Further, we are accommodated to the current system. We usually know what to expect and, mostly, how to deal with it.

There are also lots of stakeholders in the dam management decisions, with sometimes conflicting needs. Any changes might fix some problems and create even bigger ones, some we don't envision with consequences that could be hard to fix. Any discussions would involve people who have a stake in the outcome that could push the outcome in a specific direction that, overall, would satisfy them but cause an uproar after the full impact of any changes are felt. A "political" decision made now might be a bad one 2 years from now. Even turning it over to "experts" might fail to understand all factors.

That doesn't mean we should be paralyzed, just cautious.

[Biggd]

10 day forecast, no rain in sight,

[WinnisquamZ]

Longest stretch of no rain I can remember. Stopped trying to keep all the plants healthy. Grass looks like hay. The trees are quickly turning color.


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[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Longest stretch of no rain I can remember. Stopped trying to keep all the plants healthy. Grass looks like hay. The trees are quickly turning color.


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Maybe now is a good time to rethink what you have planted around the lake. We’ve talked so much about grass. Maybe you can now change it to something more lake friendly. Hopefully, people will think about this before they replant.

[pondguy]

Think healthy plant blueberries.

[John Mercier]

Seems odd, but now would be a good time to pump from the lake onto their lawns.

The lake water has extra nutrients, the evaporation of the water intensifies this situation, so pumping enough to keep the lawn growing (no fertilizer) and just enough for it to be absorbed and not surface run-off back to the lake would probably help the future situation.

[WinnisquamZ]

Absolutely. Many of us older homes still have the plumbing and pump to the lake for this to happen. But, no irrigation system to keep everything watered. It’s a bucket at a time. Must say when I do bucket water to the tomatoes they grow fantastic. Your theory is correct


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[Descant]

Originally Posted by pondguy

Think healthy plant blueberries.

Yes. Blueberry sod is available. Never gets tall, never goes brown. Nice pie, muffins, pancakes. Just Google "Blueberry sod".

[LIforrelaxin]

So with all this discussion on Lake level I went looking for data on how low Winnipesaukee has ever gotten. Unfortunately I couldn't find an specific number.... Does anyone know of where that number might be found....

I am guessing that while this maybe on of the worst years, that it is likely not yet anyway, at a point that would be considered record worthy......

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

So with all this discussion on Lake level I went looking for data on how low Winnipesaukee has ever gotten. Unfortunately I couldn't find an specific number.... Does anyone know of where that number might be found....

I am guessing that while this maybe on of the worst years, that it is likely not yet anyway, at a point that would be considered record worthy......

Last November (2024) was the lowest I have seen it in 18 years! If I remember correctly somewhere around 27" below full pool...

Dan

[Lakes Region Guy]

A few years ago(pre covid) the lake got so low that the Mt Washington stopped going to Wolfeboro for fear of bottoming out. Does anyone remember what year that was and the lake level?

[chachee52]

I do believe it was the Covid year 2020 the Sophie C did get stuck. That was way lower than this year. I have pictures of being about mid shin deep in water at the end of our swimming dock. It is not just barely under the knee as of yesterday.

[LIforrelaxin]

So I searched a bit more and found this site:

https://waterdata.usgs.gov/nh/nwis/w...te_no=01080000

Through a selection of options I narrowed in on 1941, and found that the lake got down below 501 feet..... Don't know for sure that, this is the lowest, but it indicates just how much worse it could get.....

[Susie Cougar]

Back in the mid 1960s, when I was a teenager, I remember that the lake level in front of our home receded at least 30 or 40 feet. There were many large boulders in the beach and we had a bulldozer and backhoe come in and clear them all out and made a jetty on each side of the beach with all of the rocks.

[Pineedles]

I have messaged my cousin to send me some pics taken of our wharf in center harbor dated in the 1890’s. It was in my estimation 3+ feet below the normal mid summer level. Will post the pics when I receive them.

The pictures attached are from 1923-1924, covering the time prior to the wharf being built to its completion. I would estimate the level to be down 4’.

In the Ladies bathing pic note the two boathouses in the background which are still standing today. Little One Mile is seen in the far background on the left.

Location is Center Harbor bay.

[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by Lakes Region Guy

A few years ago(pre covid) the lake got so low that the Mt Washington stopped going to Wolfeboro for fear of bottoming out. Does anyone remember what year that was and the lake level?

It wasn’t that long ago, I think three years ago? Think will probably remember and can tell us’all for sure!


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[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Lakes Region Guy

A few years ago(pre covid) the lake got so low that the Mt Washington stopped going to Wolfeboro for fear of bottoming out. Does anyone remember what year that was and the lake level?

I was in Wolfeboro when the Mount had trouble getting off the dock. My husband was still alive, so it’s at least 9 years ago.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife

It wasn’t that long ago, I think three years ago? Think will probably remember and can tell us’all for sure!


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I appreciate your vote of confidence, but I do not have this bit of info (and I searched like crazy on the Goog to no avail before responding!).

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[ishoot308]

According to Bizer's chart below, at least in the past six years, the lake was lowest last fall (2024). In the 18 years I have been on the lake I do not remember the lake being lower than last fall...

Dan

[DPatnaude]

2016 (9 years ago) was very low.

Sophie C ran aground at 3-mile Island: https://www.wmur.com/article/mail-bo...saukee/5214455

[JayR]

If memory serves (and if it doesn't, the Internet will) the fall of 2002 featured an extremely low lake. Did it threaten 502', can't remember, but I remember the Bizer chart with the very anomolously low 2002 for years. And I remember seeing some rocks exposed that I'd never seen before! Anyone else remember 2002?

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

According to Bizer's chart below, at least in the past six years, the lake was lowest last fall (2024). In the 18 years I have been on the lake I do not remember the lake being lower than last fall...

Dan

Looking at the chart from Dan, the low point in 2024 was definitely the low of the last six year, but was also out in Nov. In 2020 much like this year the water is lower then it was in 2024 at the same time....

It will be interesting to see how the lake re-acts when it finally decides to rain....

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Looking at the chart from Dan, the low point in 2024 was definitely the low of the last six year, but was also out in Nov. In 2020 much like this year the water is lower then it was in 2024 at the same time....

It will be interesting to see how the lake re-acts when it finally decides to rain....

With no rain in the forecast for the rest of this month, this year could exceed last years extreme low water level in November…

[Descant]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Looking at the chart from Dan, the low point in 2024 was definitely the low of the last six year, but was also out in Nov. In 2020 much like this year the water is lower then it was in 2024 at the same time....

It will be interesting to see how the lake re-acts when it finally decides to rain....

The watershed is dry and will absorb any/all rainfall for quite some time. It will be months before rainfall affects lake level in any significant way. When the watershed is saturated, a small amount of rain will bring the level up exponentially. That's partly why they open the dam in June when there is just a little rain. They need to be mprte patient IMHO.

[Biggd]

I just read an article that said many wells are running dry in NH. Hopefully we get rain soon!

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I just read an article that said many wells are running dry in NH. Hopefully we get rain soon!

That's awful.

Can a low water supply hurt the pump system?

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[upthesaukee]

I remember having to take out our boat early, during September of 2016, because of the lake being so low. The water at the end of the dock where we had our boat was a 60 ft dock, and the water was only about knee deep when we pulled the boats.

Certainly this year ranks right up there with that year.

Dave

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

That's awful.

Can a low water supply hurt the pump system?

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Yes. The pressure gauge will trigger on and run the pump until it burns out if not stopped.

Low levels also result in more sediment in the systems.

[LIforrelaxin]

So great points getting brought up here... Such as well running dry, that is a very good indicator of where the water table is. And yes as mentioned, even with rain right now most of it would be absorbed before ever reaching the lakes. This of course also goes back to the discussion of how can they maintain the lakes and overall watershed differently. And I hold steadfast, that there isn't much that can be done, without a ripple effect...

With that said I agree with Dan, that there is little rain, this year is likely to beat out last year... only time will tell that story......

Pineneedles showed, some great historical photos, as this story unfolds it would be nice to see some pictures if the lake continues the downward trend.... I have plenty of high water photos, and somewhere I might have some low water photos from I think the 2016 low water, I will have to look......

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

That's awful.

Can a low water supply hurt the pump system?

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One guy said his well ran dry while he wasn't there,
the pump kept running and brunt out. They need water to keep them cool.
I'm going to start shutting off the circuit breaker when I leave. I just had the pump replaced this past spring!

[Sue Doe-Nym]

This is the first time since we’ve owned property up here (1979) that I have become ultra careful about water usage, both inside and out. This drought is so severe that we all need to take care to conserve water. A very sobering thought: turning on the faucet and having nothing come out!

[Descant]

Originally Posted by Biggd

One guy said his well ran dry while he wasn't there,
the pump kept running and brunt out. They need water to keep them cool.
I'm going to start shutting off the circuit breaker when I leave. I just had the pump replaced this past spring!

What other automatic water use devices might need attention? Ice maker? Cat toilet? We use a well pump in the lake, so no problem, but what about a well pump in a dry well? Is there a float switch as on a sump pump or a macerator septic pump?

I've heard there is a special soap that is OK for lake bathing. Anybody know?

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Descant

What other automatic water use devices might need attention? Ice maker? Cat toilet? We use a well pump in the lake, so no problem, but what about a well pump in a dry well? Is there a float switch as on a sump pump or a macerator septic pump?

I've heard there is a special soap that is OK for lake bathing. Anybody know?

I would think any pump with a float switch would be ok, no water to raise the float and turn it on.
And a pump in the lake should be fine as long as it's out far enough to still be submerged.
Submersible electric pumps need water around them to keep them from overheating but if the pump is not running then there's no problem.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Descant

I've heard there is a special soap that is OK for lake bathing. Anybody know?

ZEST, the green soap, ..... www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXqxjpl4fCs ...... has been scientifically proven to be the #1 Lake Winnipesaukee friendly soap ...... ZEST!

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

ZEST, the green soap, ..... www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXqxjpl4fCs ...... has been scientifically proven to be the #1 Lake Winnipesaukee friendly soap ...... ZEST!

No soap of any kind should go in the lake.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/spec...26a7a3d67.html

[WinnisquamZ]

I recommend any soap bar that floats


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[TheTimeTraveler]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

I recommend any soap bar that floats

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Isn't Ivory Bar Soap the only soap which will float ?

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Dr. Bronner's--available pretty much anywhere

"Even though it's biodegradable ...... http://www.litesmith.com/dr-bronners...gradable-soap/ ..... , please use leave-no-trace principals and wash at least 200 ft (60 m) from water sources. Don't wash directly in a stream or lake. Scatter strained dishwater. Fish will thank you."

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Dr. Bronner's--available pretty much anywhere

Their own website says not to use soap in a lake or river. https://www.drbronner.com/pages/camp..._eLTHOP9ZkGEmB

[Winilyme]

Garcia has it right.

No soap of any kind belongs in the lake for any purpose - regardless of it's green, biodegradable, EPA endorsed or otherwise clever labeling.

[bobkatfly]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Yes. The pressure gauge will trigger on and run the pump until it burns out if not stopped.

Low levels also result in more sediment in the systems.

There are pump protection systems available that will monitor current to shutoff the pump when the current is low (no flow condition). These are used often with low yield wells and also have a timer to prevent the pump from starting for a specified amount of time allowing more recovery time.

[ApS]

The natural welling-up of cold natural spring water in the lake in front of my place has not been seen for years.

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ad.php?t=27101

Originally Posted by Biggd

I just read an article that said many wells are running dry in NH. Hopefully we get rain soon!

Last week, I rented a Toro "trencher" to redirect any torrential rainfall to existing "catch-basins".

It was astonishing to see the powder-dry (hard-pack) soil lofted into the environment like talcum powder!

[LIforrelaxin]

Why this thread has become about washing in the lake I have know idea.... But, can anyone detail to me a Marina around the lake that has a boat washing containment setup? I can't think of one.....with all that washes into the lake from the Marinas washing boats, makes the idea of a person bathing in the lake irrelevant to discuss...

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Why this thread has become about washing in the lake I have know idea.... But, can anyone detail to me a Marina around the lake that has a boat washing containment setup? I can't think of one.....with all that washes into the lake from the Marinas washing boats, makes the idea of a person bathing in the lake irrelevant to discuss...

I've seen a portable one at Sheps - I think it is NH Lakes. I haven't seen it there very often. Having one at public launches would be good

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Garcia

I've seen a portable one at Sheps - I think it is NH Lakes. I haven't seen it there very often. Having one at public launches would be good

No one should be washing their boat at a public launch! Take it home and wash it or take it to a self serv car wash.

[tis]

Heck, we see people washing their boats while they are anchoring out there.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by tis

Heck, we see people washing their boats while they are anchoring out there.

I don't see a problem with that, I scrub my boat out in the middle of the lake a couple times during the season,
But, tying up a public boat launch to wash your boat, that's going to piss some people off!
It's a public boat launch, not a public boat wash,

[fatlazyless]

NH-DES: Managing Boat Washing Wastewater at Marinas

From 2023: http://www.des.nh.gov/sites/g/files/...dwgb-22-32.pdf
...................

Best Management Practices for New Hampshire Marinas

Guidelines for Environmentally Proactive Marinas

From 2001: http://www.des.nh.gov/sites/g/files/...s-wd-01-12.pdf ....... 73-pages

[Garcia]

I'm seeing beach I've never had and rocks above water that are rarely exposed. Luckily I can get in and out as the boat is small enough and water deep enough. I see many docks that are surrounded by sand!

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Garcia

I'm seeing beach I've never had and rocks above water that are rarely exposed. Luckily I can get in and out as the boat is small enough and water deep enough. I see many docks that are surrounded by sand!

We see pictures of lakes out west drying up, could we see that here?

[John Mercier]

Anything is possible.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Biggd

We see pictures of lakes out west drying up, could we see that here?

As already Stated anything is possible. There are some differences however when you look at places where lakes go through radical level changes, and have even in some cases dried up.

Winnipesaukee, is really at the head of a water shed, there would need to be little to no snow pack through a winter, and very little to no rain for the remainder of the year before an issue would really become long term in nature.

When you look at issues to the west, for instance where I am, the lake serve two purposes, reduce flood risk, and provide water...... The draws on the lake are more constant because they are used to provide water for all purposes....

In Areas that go through a droughts on a regular basis they can't produce enough run off to keep the lake levels constant, in a normal year.... they rely on having "bumper years" where they fill the lakes, and then draw it down until the next "bumper year"..... So what really dictates the drying up of a lake, and how quickly it happens, is how much extra water is needed every year beyond what is normally produced in the water shed in a normal year.

Now lets bring this back to Winnipesaukee...... there was a lake to begin with..... in fact if the dam was taken out there would likely be few smaller lakes.....There is always snow pack in the mountains that will melt in the spring, and fill up the lake to some level..... because of the dam, the state can control how much water is held back, and what is allowed to flow down stream..... so even if there isn't rain this fall and the lake drops to an all time low.... there would have to be no snow this winter, for the lake to recover with ......

Now that I think I am done rambling, my point is yes it is possible for Winnipesaukee to run dry or at least suffer from drought conditions, but the likely hood, is minimal.... And would indicate the mother nature has lost her marbles....

[phoenix]

also most lakes in the west are dammed up rivers so when river flows drops so does the lake

[JayR]

When I looked at the water level of Lake Opechee, I blurted out, "DAM!"

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Lake level for Winnipesaukee . September 18 is lowest reading since 1981 (Bizer)

[Biggd]

Getting some wet weather this week. It doesn't look like much, but we will take anything at this point.

[ishoot308]

As of today, the lake is now 22 1/2" below full pool level...Still have approximately 4" to go to beat last years late November low. Sure looks like we are on pace to easily surpass that!!

Dan

[Bizer]

Bizer has daily readings going back to 1982. Today, we're about one half inch below the lowest of the 43 September 22nd readings in my book. We've been setting 44 year records for about a week at this point.

Remember October, 1996. On the 20th, the reading was the lowest of the 15 years of daily readings. We had so much rain in two days that the October 23rd reading was the highest 15 year reading.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Bizer

Bizer has daily readings going back to 1982. Today, we're about one half inch below the lowest of the 43 September 22nd readings in my book. We've been setting 44 year records for about a week at this point.

Remember October, 1996. On the 20th, the reading was the lowest of the 15 years of daily readings. We had so much rain in two days that the October 23rd reading was the highest 15 year reading.

Haha, I remember 1996...... we waited a bit to long to get the dock out.... Boat was already out.... but we dragged our heals on the dock, and well yep we took it out after it had come back up......actually if memory serves me well, we took it our because it was starting to float......

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Bizer

Bizer has daily readings going back to 1982. Today, we're about one half inch below the lowest of the 43 September 22nd readings in my book. We've been setting 44 year records for about a week at this point.

Remember October, 1996. On the 20th, the reading was the lowest of the 15 years of daily readings. We had so much rain in two days that the October 23rd reading was the highest 15 year reading.

If I remember correctly we had 11 inch's of rain in 3 days.

[LIforrelaxin]

I am down here in Texas, and have asked mother nature politely to save some rain now falling, and migrate it north, to New Hampshire..... Time will tell if I have any pull with mother nature or not......

[steve-on-mark]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

As of today, the lake is now 22 1/2" below full pool level...Still have approximately 4" to go to beat last years late November low. Sure looks like we are on pace to easily surpass that!!

Dan

C-Dorys draft 7 inches...just sayin'...

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[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by steve-on-mark

C-Dorys draft 7 inches...just sayin'...

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Im not sure what the draft is on the Eastern but it’s not much with its flat bottom hull and tiny little keel…

Wont be on the lake this weekend anyway as we are headed to Hilton Head for a wedding….

Have fun!

Dan

[steve-on-mark]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Im not sure what the draft is on the Eastern but it’s not much with its flat bottom hull and tiny little keel…

Wont be on the lake this weekend anyway as we are headed to Hilton Head for a wedding….

Have fun!

Dan

Two of these things are not like the other!



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[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by steve-on-mark

Two of these things are not like the other!



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lol!…I see you also have a preferential spot at “Codeman Marina”! He saved me this year!!

Yes that vessel is quite the luxury liner!!!

Dan

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Winilyme

How exactly do they save them? I assume there isn't enough water to motor off the lift so they need to be pulled off? And if there's not enough water behind the lift...what then?

Lifts don't collapse completely. I sold a Sunstream lift because it ended my boating season by mid August some years. I usually asked a neighbor to tow or just tug my boat off the lift and then tied up next to the dock. This year (2025) the lake is crazy low. Stop the evaporation talk cause it's all about the aggressive Lakeport Dam operation. NH has the second highest energy costs in the country, only Hawaii has higher costs. Is anyone independently auditing the Lakeport flow rate fibs ? What could possibly go wrong ?

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Chubby

NH has the second highest energy costs in the country, only Hawaii has higher costs. Is anyone independently auditing the Lakeport flow rate fibs ? What could possibly go wrong ?

What is your source of information for a statement like this as nothing could be further from the truth! NH as of February 2025 had the third lowest energy cost in the country!

Dan

[John Mercier]

Huh?
https://poweroutage.us/electricity-rates

[ishoot308]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...tor-in-the-us/

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Huh?
https://poweroutage.us/electricity-rates

Something wrong with your chart numbers John as it says the average price per KWH in NH is 23.51 Who the hell is paying that!! I pay half that!

Here is Eversource's current rate at 11.1 cents per KWH

https://www.eversource.com/residenti...upply-rates/nh

Maybe when you add up all the taxes and surcharges and other misc B.S. charges it brings the cost way up but as far as basic price per KWH it's under .12 cents

Dan

[John Mercier]

Add the delivery to the supply...
https://www.eversource.com/residenti...delivery-rates

Then include the NH taxes, etc.

That is how that site posted along with apportioning for the different utilities (Eversource, Liberty, Co-op, etc) to try to make an apples-to-apples comparison.

I think it was the PUC Chair that Governor Ayotte did not nominate for another term, as she wants rates down.

Some of that is supply costs, and some is delivery costs.
Supply is fairly market driven other than the RPS, and her idea of getting less expensive supply seems to be up to a new natural gas pipeline.

Delivery is harder, as labor costs play a big role.

But we are not the second highest in the country, not even the second highest on the ISO-NE grid. Only Vermont is a bit lower.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Something wrong with your chart numbers John as it says the average price per KWH in NH is 23.51 Who the hell is paying that!! I pay half that!

Here is Eversource's current rate at 11.1 cents per KWH

https://www.eversource.com/residenti...upply-rates/nh

Maybe when you add up all the taxes and surcharges and other misc B.S. charges it brings the cost way up but as far as basic price per KWH it's under .12 cents

Dan

I'm guessing your link doesn't correct for supply and transmission rates.

Yes, Eversource's supply rate is 11¢, but that's only half the cost of actual electricity use.



Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

[LIforrelaxin]

How did this thread go from Lake level to Electricity costs.... back to lake level talks please

[John Mercier]

Part of the lake level issue is the production of electricity at the dam that controls the depth, to a degree, of the lake.

[Bear Guy]

"This [2025] summer was the driest ever in New Hampshire since data collection began in the late 19th century ..."
".... with August ranking as the second driest August ever ... "

https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2025-09...corded-drought

which is to say, I don't envy anyone trying to manage water when the weather is statically aberrant.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Add the delivery to the supply...
https://www.eversource.com/residenti...delivery-rates

Then include the NH taxes, etc.

That is how that site posted along with apportioning for the different utilities (Eversource, Liberty, Co-op, etc) to try to make an apples-to-apples comparison.

I think it was the PUC Chair that Governor Ayotte did not nominate for another term, as she wants rates down.

Some of that is supply costs, and some is delivery costs.
Supply is fairly market driven other than the RPS, and her idea of getting less expensive supply seems to be up to a new natural gas pipeline.

Delivery is harder, as labor costs play a big role.

But we are not the second highest in the country, not even the second highest on the ISO-NE grid. Only Vermont is a bit lower.

Could you share with us how to avoid the NHEC Member Charge (NHEC), Distribution Delivery Charge, Regional Access Charge, System Benefits Charge, Coop Power Charge (NHEC) and associated tax ?

The August 1, 2025 price decrease coupled with rate increases in other states adjusted us down to only the 7th highest in the USA but it might be interesting to have a second set of eyes on the Lakeport Dam when boats are sitting on the lake bottom in mid August... wouldn't you agree ?

Who said: "Trust but verify... " ?

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

What is your source of information for a statement like this as nothing could be further from the truth! NH as of February 2025 had the third lowest energy cost in the country!

Dan

Sorry Dan but unfortunately no residential single or multi phase service arrives at the end user without any distribution costs. Whata bummer....

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Could you share with us how to avoid the NHEC Member Charge (NHEC), Distribution Delivery Charge, Regional Access Charge, System Benefits Charge, Coop Power Charge (NHEC) and associated tax ?

The August 1, 2025 price decrease coupled with rate increases in other states adjusted us down to only the 7th highest in the USA but it might be interesting to have a second set of eyes on the Lakeport Dam when boats are sitting on the lake bottom in mid August... wouldn't you agree ?

Who said: "Trust but verify... " ?

That site apportions them.
It takes the rates from all the suppliers - including NHEC - aggregates them based on average use, and apportions them based on the number of customers each supplier has.

So NH, isn't just Eversource, or Liberty, or Unitil, but also NHEC.
It may not catch some of the smaller community systems or buying contracts that currently exist; but does the best that it can.

If you post a bill, we can take the bottom dollar divide it by the usage, and determine a specific rate for you individually - but that will move up and down monthly based on usage - because of the fixed costs in the billing.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by Chubby

... it might be interesting to have a second set of eyes on the Lakeport Dam when boats are sitting on the lake bottom in mid August... wouldn't you agree ?

Who said: "Trust but verify... " ?

This is silly.

The dam flow is automatically monitored and reported online hourly. Plus, anyone driving by the area can see the flow levels and confirm they are very low. Do you think dam operators are sneaking out at midnight, opening up the dam gates, and then shutting them before morning twilight so no one can see? That's pretty paranoid. Oops, it's a full moon tonight. Can't open the dam. Someone might see.

The power plant at the dam is, I believe, a smaller one, with regional impact only. This isn't a large corporation sitting in a locked room, counting their ill gotten money from opening the dam surreptitiously. Plus, I will bet power generation records match the dam flow rate. It would be kind of obvious if the dam started cranking out lots of power when the flow was supposed to be 200 CFS. Also, power generation is highly regulated. There are LOTS of eyes on it and odd fluctuations happening in the dead of night by evil dam operators in collusion with the evil power money hoarders would be noticed in a heartbeat.

Finally, the lake level is automatically monitored and reported online as well. We have had a long dry spell so there has been no significant impact of rain water coming into the lake. The lake level has been on a long slow decline that parallels a slow dam rate. It's obviously not one to one but it has been steady. At 200 CFS the lake level would drop about 3 - 4 inches a month and that is exactly what has happened. When we recently got a couple of inches of rain, the lake level bounced up and then resumed its steady decline, again doing what you would expect with the dam at 200 CFS.

The cost of electricity is a red herring. No one is getting rich off of electricity generation and speculation and discussion of electricity management has almost nothing to do with the lake level, beyond the minimal level required to keep the generators operating to prevent damage from non use.

Conspiracy theories can be entertaining but this one is full of holes.

[ApS]

I see a problem if snowfall (and snowmelt)
follows this period of drought.

[John Mercier]

Also, less generation - lower flow rate to keep the lake deeper - should increase the price of electricity.

[LIforrelaxin]

Do a quick search on the lake port Dam, and you find that its electric capacity is extremely small, 705 kW......

Even the now non operational Kelly Dam in Manchester is only capable off 2.4MW

Consider dams like Hoover dam are capable of 2,000+ MW

With those facts, those are when Dam's are operating at full capacity... Which for lake port is when the flow is around 250 cfs...... Now people are correct they could hold lake port at a constant 250cfs, but then there would be flooding issues etc. So they control lake levels through out the watershed, not just Winnipesaukee, by controlling out flows from the dams..... when there is no rain even at 250cfs the lake drops. A misconception is that this is because of the outflow... But you need to look at the inflows to, which during a drought also go down.

You have good years you have bad years, deal with it.... keep a trailer able boat.... when you need to take it out you can, and then put it back in when you can.....when I had the time, the boat would come out when levels dictated it, and I wouldn't winterize it in case I wanted it back in.... And yes there where years where the boat went back in....

Your asking the dam operators to fight with Mother Nature.... She will always win in the end..... If you want to constantly usable lake, move south....

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by jeffk

This is silly.

The dam flow is automatically monitored and reported online hourly. Plus, anyone driving by the area can see the flow levels and confirm they are very low. Do you think dam operators are sneaking out at midnight, opening up the dam gates, and then shutting them before morning twilight so no one can see? That's pretty paranoid. Oops, it's a full moon tonight. Can't open the dam. Someone might see.

The power plant at the dam is, I believe, a smaller one, with regional impact only. This isn't a large corporation sitting in a locked room, counting their ill gotten money from opening the dam surreptitiously. Plus, I will bet power generation records match the dam flow rate. It would be kind of obvious if the dam started cranking out lots of power when the flow was supposed to be 200 CFS. Also, power generation is highly regulated. There are LOTS of eyes on it and odd fluctuations happening in the dead of night by evil dam operators in collusion with the evil power money hoarders would be noticed in a heartbeat.

Finally, the lake level is automatically monitored and reported online as well. We have had a long dry spell so there has been no significant impact of rain water coming into the lake. The lake level has been on a long slow decline that parallels a slow dam rate. It's obviously not one to one but it has been steady. At 200 CFS the lake level would drop about 3 - 4 inches a month and that is exactly what has happened. When we recently got a couple of inches of rain, the lake level bounced up and then resumed its steady decline, again doing what you would expect with the dam at 200 CFS.

The cost of electricity is a red herring. No one is getting rich off of electricity generation and speculation and discussion of electricity management has almost nothing to do with the lake level, beyond the minimal level required to keep the generators operating to prevent damage from non use.

Conspiracy theories can be entertaining but this one is full of holes.

I’ll say it (one last time in this thread). We are on a near-by dam controlled lake. We have experienced the same drought as you. Our lake has had none of these issues. Water level has been at +/- historical level all season.
Different feeders (springs, rivers, snow melt)? Maybe…
Mismanagement? Maybe…
Yeti? Maybe…
Aliens? maybe…