lake level

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Add the delivery to the supply...
https://www.eversource.com/residenti...delivery-rates

Then include the NH taxes, etc.

That is how that site posted along with apportioning for the different utilities (Eversource, Liberty, Co-op, etc) to try to make an apples-to-apples comparison.

I think it was the PUC Chair that Governor Ayotte did not nominate for another term, as she wants rates down.

Some of that is supply costs, and some is delivery costs.
Supply is fairly market driven other than the RPS, and her idea of getting less expensive supply seems to be up to a new natural gas pipeline.

Delivery is harder, as labor costs play a big role.

But we are not the second highest in the country, not even the second highest on the ISO-NE grid. Only Vermont is a bit lower.

Could you share with us how to avoid the NHEC Member Charge (NHEC), Distribution Delivery Charge, Regional Access Charge, System Benefits Charge, Coop Power Charge (NHEC) and associated tax ?

The August 1, 2025 price decrease coupled with rate increases in other states adjusted us down to only the 7th highest in the USA but it might be interesting to have a second set of eyes on the Lakeport Dam when boats are sitting on the lake bottom in mid August... wouldn't you agree ?

Who said: "Trust but verify... " ?

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Could you share with us how to avoid the NHEC Member Charge (NHEC), Distribution Delivery Charge, Regional Access Charge, System Benefits Charge, Coop Power Charge (NHEC) and associated tax ?

The August 1, 2025 price decrease coupled with rate increases in other states adjusted us down to only the 7th highest in the USA but it might be interesting to have a second set of eyes on the Lakeport Dam when boats are sitting on the lake bottom in mid August... wouldn't you agree ?

Who said: "Trust but verify... " ?

That site apportions them.
It takes the rates from all the suppliers - including NHEC - aggregates them based on average use, and apportions them based on the number of customers each supplier has.

So NH, isn't just Eversource, or Liberty, or Unitil, but also NHEC.
It may not catch some of the smaller community systems or buying contracts that currently exist; but does the best that it can.

If you post a bill, we can take the bottom dollar divide it by the usage, and determine a specific rate for you individually - but that will move up and down monthly based on usage - because of the fixed costs in the billing.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by Chubby

... it might be interesting to have a second set of eyes on the Lakeport Dam when boats are sitting on the lake bottom in mid August... wouldn't you agree ?

Who said: "Trust but verify... " ?

This is silly.

The dam flow is automatically monitored and reported online hourly. Plus, anyone driving by the area can see the flow levels and confirm they are very low. Do you think dam operators are sneaking out at midnight, opening up the dam gates, and then shutting them before morning twilight so no one can see? That's pretty paranoid. Oops, it's a full moon tonight. Can't open the dam. Someone might see.

The power plant at the dam is, I believe, a smaller one, with regional impact only. This isn't a large corporation sitting in a locked room, counting their ill gotten money from opening the dam surreptitiously. Plus, I will bet power generation records match the dam flow rate. It would be kind of obvious if the dam started cranking out lots of power when the flow was supposed to be 200 CFS. Also, power generation is highly regulated. There are LOTS of eyes on it and odd fluctuations happening in the dead of night by evil dam operators in collusion with the evil power money hoarders would be noticed in a heartbeat.

Finally, the lake level is automatically monitored and reported online as well. We have had a long dry spell so there has been no significant impact of rain water coming into the lake. The lake level has been on a long slow decline that parallels a slow dam rate. It's obviously not one to one but it has been steady. At 200 CFS the lake level would drop about 3 - 4 inches a month and that is exactly what has happened. When we recently got a couple of inches of rain, the lake level bounced up and then resumed its steady decline, again doing what you would expect with the dam at 200 CFS.

The cost of electricity is a red herring. No one is getting rich off of electricity generation and speculation and discussion of electricity management has almost nothing to do with the lake level, beyond the minimal level required to keep the generators operating to prevent damage from non use.

Conspiracy theories can be entertaining but this one is full of holes.

[ApS]

I see a problem if snowfall (and snowmelt)
follows this period of drought.

[John Mercier]

Also, less generation - lower flow rate to keep the lake deeper - should increase the price of electricity.

[LIforrelaxin]

Do a quick search on the lake port Dam, and you find that its electric capacity is extremely small, 705 kW......

Even the now non operational Kelly Dam in Manchester is only capable off 2.4MW

Consider dams like Hoover dam are capable of 2,000+ MW

With those facts, those are when Dam's are operating at full capacity... Which for lake port is when the flow is around 250 cfs...... Now people are correct they could hold lake port at a constant 250cfs, but then there would be flooding issues etc. So they control lake levels through out the watershed, not just Winnipesaukee, by controlling out flows from the dams..... when there is no rain even at 250cfs the lake drops. A misconception is that this is because of the outflow... But you need to look at the inflows to, which during a drought also go down.

You have good years you have bad years, deal with it.... keep a trailer able boat.... when you need to take it out you can, and then put it back in when you can.....when I had the time, the boat would come out when levels dictated it, and I wouldn't winterize it in case I wanted it back in.... And yes there where years where the boat went back in....

Your asking the dam operators to fight with Mother Nature.... She will always win in the end..... If you want to constantly usable lake, move south....

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by jeffk

This is silly.

The dam flow is automatically monitored and reported online hourly. Plus, anyone driving by the area can see the flow levels and confirm they are very low. Do you think dam operators are sneaking out at midnight, opening up the dam gates, and then shutting them before morning twilight so no one can see? That's pretty paranoid. Oops, it's a full moon tonight. Can't open the dam. Someone might see.

The power plant at the dam is, I believe, a smaller one, with regional impact only. This isn't a large corporation sitting in a locked room, counting their ill gotten money from opening the dam surreptitiously. Plus, I will bet power generation records match the dam flow rate. It would be kind of obvious if the dam started cranking out lots of power when the flow was supposed to be 200 CFS. Also, power generation is highly regulated. There are LOTS of eyes on it and odd fluctuations happening in the dead of night by evil dam operators in collusion with the evil power money hoarders would be noticed in a heartbeat.

Finally, the lake level is automatically monitored and reported online as well. We have had a long dry spell so there has been no significant impact of rain water coming into the lake. The lake level has been on a long slow decline that parallels a slow dam rate. It's obviously not one to one but it has been steady. At 200 CFS the lake level would drop about 3 - 4 inches a month and that is exactly what has happened. When we recently got a couple of inches of rain, the lake level bounced up and then resumed its steady decline, again doing what you would expect with the dam at 200 CFS.

The cost of electricity is a red herring. No one is getting rich off of electricity generation and speculation and discussion of electricity management has almost nothing to do with the lake level, beyond the minimal level required to keep the generators operating to prevent damage from non use.

Conspiracy theories can be entertaining but this one is full of holes.

I’ll say it (one last time in this thread). We are on a near-by dam controlled lake. We have experienced the same drought as you. Our lake has had none of these issues. Water level has been at +/- historical level all season.
Different feeders (springs, rivers, snow melt)? Maybe…
Mismanagement? Maybe…
Yeti? Maybe…
Aliens? maybe…

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by BillTex

I’ll say it (one last time in this thread). We are on a near-by dam controlled lake. We have experienced the same drought as you. Our lake has had none of these issues. Water level has been at +/- historical level all season.
Different feeders (springs, rivers, snow melt)? Maybe…
Mismanagement? Maybe…
Yeti? Maybe…
Aliens? maybe…

What lake?

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by BillTex

I’ll say it (one last time in this thread). We are on a near-by dam controlled lake. We have experienced the same drought as you. Our lake has had none of these issues. Water level has been at +/- historical level all season.
Different feeders (springs, rivers, snow melt)? Maybe…
Mismanagement? Maybe…
Yeti? Maybe…
Aliens? maybe…

Which lake is very important in this context. Even lakes that are dammed can be constant level lakes, as they balance inflows and outflows.... Winnipesauke is a Flood Control reservoir.... The water is held and then released as appropriate to control conditions down stream.... The lake is not meant to be a constant 504.32 feet..... as long as it is below 504.32 feet a minimum outflow of 250cfs has to be maintained, for down stream considerations. The amount below 504.32 feet is an indicator of how much water can be held back when mother nature strikes... My general observation has been that once below about 504 feet, the dam operators feel that they have sufficient capacity. and are happy to run at 250 cfs.......

[Biggd]

Spring fed lakes seem to be holding up much better. I help my buddy take his boat out of Stinson Lake in Rumney and his lake level was normal level.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Spring fed lakes seem to be holding up much better.

I help my buddy take his boat out of Stinson Lake in Rumney and his lake level was normal level.

Unknown how much water (spring-water) flows into Lake Winnipesaukee, but in front of my place, I recorded three major simultaneous surges from about 14-feet of Winter Harbor's bottom.

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ad.php?t=27101

Haven't seen it since then.

The elevation of the only land that could produce such a spring-water surge is only about 40-feet.

(Wolfeboro Airport's average elevation, minus 504').

[TiltonBB]

From the Laconia Sun:

The lakes are already down to the winter levels, so there is no reason to push it any further. He said DES staff are being careful, so people have time to get their boats out of the water, and ensure there is enough water in the lakes throughout the winter.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...b4c7f8e4c.html

[garysanfran]

At what point does a lake become a pond?

[Descant]

In NH, anything over 10 acres is a "great pond" and the waters of all great ponds are state waters.

[fatlazyless]

In the beautifully rugged and wild State of Maine, just east of N.H., the Maine ponds can be huge in size if they are shallow.

Lake or Pond??? ..... www.maine.gov/dep/water/lakes/lkepond.html

In Maine what differentiates a pond from a lake is the ability for sunlight to penetrate through the water to the bottom. If sunlight travels all the way to the bottom, it is a pond. If sunlight will not travel all the way to the bottom, it is a lake.

New Hampshire and Maine are different in many ways. Here's the New Hampshire difference..... http://www.des.nh.gov/sites/g/files/...0-01/bb-49.pdf ..... between a pond and a lake.

[ishoot308]

As of today, the lake is 25 1/4” below full pool…

Dan

[Cobalt 25]

Friends of ours in Paugus say it's the lowest they have seen it at their dock in 45 years.

[jeffk]

On the DES website you can adjust the plot timespan.

Since 2010, similar low points
Oct 2016 502.29
Nov 2020 502.28
Nov 2024 502.12
Oct 26 2025 502.24

The decimal values might be a few hundredths off since it's hard to place the cursor precisely in such a data filled graph but the numbers show this year's number isn't that unusual.

What is unusual is that the lake level dropped much sooner than normal because of the lack of rain, intruding into the normal boating season.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by jeffk

On the DES website you can adjust the plot timespan.

Since 2010, similar low points
Oct 2016 502.29
Nov 2020 502.28
Nov 2024 502.12
Oct 26 2025 502.24

The decimal values might be a few hundredths off since it's hard to place the cursor precisely in such a data filled graph but the numbers show this year's number isn't that unusual.

What is unusual is that the lake level dropped much sooner than normal because of the lack of rain, intruding into the normal boating season.

Its a problem. But not really a great solution.
And so many other issue for the Legislature and Departments to focus on that I think sticking to the current management plan will be what they do.

It does risk the revenue generated from Meals & Rental (Rooms & Meals), which is a decent part of the NH budget. But with the dam funding in question, along with the highway funding, and figuring out what changes have to be made on the educational funding issue now that the courts have ruled. I think they may have their plate full to go into the in depth discussions that would need to happen to make a dramatic management plan change.

[LIforrelaxin]

so this morning I went to the DES website and looked at the lake level and dam output. The Dam is running at 50 cfs, as per the NOP this time of year....The lake is at 502.24 just a couple of inches lower then the operating band. For those that continue to fuss over the lake getting low to quick, the operation band for the lake allows it to be as low as 502.32.... if you dock doesn't accommodate that then its time to either realize some seasons might be shorter then others.... or make accommodations in your dock to allow for low water.

This is one of the reasons I never would chose to have a permanent dock structure. because you are limited to 30 feet of length... Season docks get 40.... myself I always tried to keep an extra dock section on shore so I could go out to 48' if the water got really low.....Had I not moved, this year I might have actually put that additional section in, to allow me to finish out the season comfortably. That would have made it on the second time in almost 40 years I would have had that thought..... I would say to everyone that is complaining the DES isn't doing their job.... Get Real, Get Over it, and realize that there is more involved then just making sure that the level at the lake stays high enough past Labor day.....

As a note, I routinely boat into Oct. I can personally say the number of people boating in Sept. and Oct. on Winnipesaukee.... is really limited, and they must all be on this forum.....

[Biggd]

I'm a fair-weather boater, I only boat in perfect weather. This was the first time in 11 years that I had to move everyone to the back of the boat to power off the sand. Taking my boat out a month early allowed me to get a jump start on my fall/winter projects. No complaints from me.

[Garcia]

It was a great weekend to be out on the water and on the island. Yes, the water is low, but on the flip side, I saw just a couple boats and not another soul on the island. I wish I could have spent the week!

[ACME on the Broads]

Same for us on LI !

[fatlazyless]

Did you know the last of the indigenous people living at their Weirs Beach fishing village were evicted and forcibly driven out by the year, 1696. They relocated to the shoreline area along the Saco River in what is now Fryeburg, Maine.

So, 329-years later in 2025, here we be and this year's Lake Winnipesaukee low water situation has got to somehow be directly related to the forced eviction ..... www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquadoctan ..... of these indigenous people back in 1696.

Some type of heap big revenge coming from the Smile of the Great Spirit or something, ugh! ...... ..... and double ugh! ...... and holy cowabunga! ...... ..... just imagine moving from Lake Winnipesaukee to Saco River.

[ACME on the Broads]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Did you know the last of the indigenous people living at their Weirs Beach fishing village were evicted and forcibly driven out by the year, 1696. They relocated to the shoreline area along the Saco River in what is now Fryeburg, Maine.

So, 329-years later in 2025, here we be and this year's Lake Winnipesaukee low water situation has got to somehow be directly related to the forced eviction ..... www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquadoctan ..... of these indigenous people back in 1696.

Some type of heap big revenge coming from the Smile of the Great Spirit or something, ugh! ...... ..... and double ugh! ...... and holy cowabunga! ...... ..... just imagine moving from Lake Winnipesaukee to Saco River.

NO THX, too far away from Pop's!

[Garcia]

Curious if this bit of rain makes a measurable impact on the lake level.

[garysanfran]

Originally Posted by Garcia

Curious if this bit of rain makes a measurable impact on the lake level.

Based on the marker I'm watching, not much. Maybe 1/4-1/2" max.

First time my boating season ended by lack of water, instead of time.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Garcia

Curious if this bit of rain makes a measurable impact on the lake level.

Well it did rain like heck here early this morning that's for sure! I don't think it's going to make much of a difference in lake level now as I think the surrounding dry ground is just going to soak it all up. There is more rain scheduled for early next week so maybe the lake will come up a bit by then...

Dan

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Well it did rain like heck here early this morning that's for sure! I don't think it's going to make much of a difference in lake level now as I think the surrounding dry ground is just going to soak it all up. There is more rain scheduled for early next week so maybe the lake will come up a bit by then...

Dan

It's not looking like very significant rain next week, but anything right now is welcomed.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by jeffk

This is silly.

The dam flow is automatically monitored and reported online hourly. Plus, anyone driving by the area can see the flow levels and confirm they are very low. Do you think dam operators are sneaking out at midnight, opening up the dam gates, and then shutting them before morning twilight so no one can see? That's pretty paranoid. Oops, it's a full moon tonight. Can't open the dam. Someone might see.

The power plant at the dam is, I believe, a smaller one, with regional impact only. This isn't a large corporation sitting in a locked room, counting their ill gotten money from opening the dam surreptitiously. Plus, I will bet power generation records match the dam flow rate. It would be kind of obvious if the dam started cranking out lots of power when the flow was supposed to be 200 CFS. Also, power generation is highly regulated. There are LOTS of eyes on it and odd fluctuations happening in the dead of night by evil dam operators in collusion with the evil power money hoarders would be noticed in a heartbeat.

Finally, the lake level is automatically monitored and reported online as well. We have had a long dry spell so there has been no significant impact of rain water coming into the lake. The lake level has been on a long slow decline that parallels a slow dam rate. It's obviously not one to one but it has been steady. At 200 CFS the lake level would drop about 3 - 4 inches a month and that is exactly what has happened. When we recently got a couple of inches of rain, the lake level bounced up and then resumed its steady decline, again doing what you would expect with the dam at 200 CFS.

The cost of electricity is a red herring. No one is getting rich off of electricity generation and speculation and discussion of electricity management has almost nothing to do with the lake level, beyond the minimal level required to keep the generators operating to prevent damage from non use.

Conspiracy theories can be entertaining but this one is full of holes.

Wow. Tell us more about how cfs flow rates can be verified by looking at the water from a bridge.

Yup only mega size corporations break rules.

It must be low rainfall and evaporation cause any other cause is a tinfoil hat conspiracy.

Yes, there's a mass outflow facility and they are above reproach. Nothing to see here folks... move along.

[John Mercier]

So why complain about the price of electricity if you want the dam to flow less water and produce less electricity?

[BillTex]

The consensus seems to be the lake is managed for a (very small) amount of power generation and not for the benefit/enjoyment of property owners (tax payers). Winni is a complicated eco system with many stakeholders. If the health of the lake was paramount, seems to me, everyone would benefit.
We are fortunate that our community has rallied around the health of our lake, understanding this benefits all stakeholders. We have programs/grants for septic, run-off, and other initiatives all focused on improving/maintaining water quality.
Maintaining the water level year round just makes sense and certainly makes for a more enjoyable summer.
I don’t’ know the details of the Winni lake management, but if I lived there, i would be getting involved. If you are a property owner, and your quality of lake life declines…you are at risk on many levels. It is difficult to understand why something so basic as maintaining the water level of Winni throughout the summer, has been so controversial. But then again, i am not on winni…

[John Mercier]

Because when too much water is withheld, the lake overflows and damage to the shoreline properties occurs.

No one knows for sure how "wet" the summer is going to be.