Here it is! Boat Registration Proposed Legislation

[Skip]

The sponsoring Representative explains his reason's for sponsorship in This article found on-line at the Citize,

[Silver Duck]

I, for one, have no objection whatsoever to an increase in user fees. As others have said, user fees are the fair way to pay for services and I don't expect someone else to pony up to pay my way (especially in these tough economic times!)

Silver Duck

[Sunbeam lodge]

Originally Posted by Skip

The sponsoring Representative explains his reason's for sponsorship in This article found on-line at the Citize,

Wait one minute! Irwin say's the fee is only $17.00.
Irwin wants $5.00 to fill out a registration form. Ridiculous! You shouldn't need five pages of information and it should be computerized. No reason to kick up the fee by 230% (1.50 to 5.00) because business is slow.
I have a 22 footer and the fee is $26.00 plus $11.00 for other required fees or total of $37.00.. You want to increase that 100%. Now the registration fee will be $74.00. (pub Access $5+Search Res $1+lake preserv $5 =$11.00) Hold, on there's more, tax collection fee 1.00. to 2.00. And then there is the boat fee $19.84. Total goes from 57.84 to 94.84. If they decide to increase the boat fee the cost would go to115.68. Lower boat use and cheaper gas should offset the need for any increase. We already pay the highest taxes for the priviledge of living on the lake. Now somebody suggests taxing kyacks and canoes!!!
Remember how they started this thread, The cost is only $17.00 and doubling that should be no big deal.

[upthesaukee]

I got curious what the fees (basic fees, without any adjustment to the other fees such as agent fees, etc) would work out to if they had an inflationary factor applied. Trying to find a chart to give some value to the increases since 1979 was a little interesting, so the first one I came to was the Social Security increases (see this website http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/colaseries.html ), so that's what I used.

I started with Sunbeam's $26 basic fee (Sunbeam: no criticism of you or your post...you just happened to have done out the math!) and applied those increases (none for 1979), and I expected to see them go well above the new, but to my surprise, it came out to $74.29+.

I did not do any rounding off, just remultiplying by 1.xxx. I also did not put in the 5.8 increase for 2008.

So if someone had a 22 footer in 1979 (again, not pointing to Sunbeam) and continued to keep a boat in that length class, the increase would be about the same as we are seeing now.

The problem is that there have been no inflationary increase for thirty years. I can guarantee you that Marine Patrol costs have gone up in that same span.

I belong to a fraternal organization, and our state organization has not a dues increase for 9 years, and are now trying to catch up. We have included in our organizations's constitution an amendment to have the dues increase in pace with inflation, so we do not have a large jump in dues in the future.

I hope that the final act with have a means to have our fees keep place with inflation, and not wait years before another adjustment.

Again, thanks Sunbeam for the math, and again, no criticism sent your way from me.

[Pineedles]

I am among the group of "Little Boaters". I was a "big" boater in the past. I am not opposed to the new fees, but I understand the outrage at the percentage of increase, it seems onerous. We are all dealing with tough times and we can only look forward to when things will be a bit more normal. I guess I am saying that although there are arguments that gov't will always spend what we give them ( Myself included) there comes a time when we have to say we are privileged to have the ability to use this lake for our recreation. Having said that I am not saying that we haven't worked hard to attain this privilege, but perhaps we owe a little bit more to maintaining it, as well as preserving it for others. The gov't will always waste money, but I guess I am willing to contribute to the general fund as long as we are all willing to still keep tabs on them. With great trepidation, I remain truthfully yours,

Pineedles

[Sunbeam lodge]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

I got curious what the fees (basic fees, without any adjustment to the other fees such as agent fees, etc) would work out to if they had an inflationary factor applied.

Their are problems with tying increases's to inflation.
My home's assessed value has increased more than the inflation factor for many of the years I have owned it. However, now that we are in a deflationary spiral and housing values are falling, do we get a reduction in our real estate taxes or any taxes for that matter. On the matter of taxing Kyacks and canoes $2.00. Ridiculous, cost of the decals and people to administer and mail it would eat up most of the $2.00. Then we need more people to enforce the law. If we refuse to buy the stamp then what? Put us in jail. Yeah, right after Bernie Maddoff goes in.
I don't mind increasing boat registration fees if they go toward increased maintenance.

ce of the lake.

[Misty Blue]

A year or so ago the state raised the cigarette tax $.30 per pack. The folks in our neighbor states said s---- it. It's not worth the time or gas anymore and state revenues went down 2.4 million. Money lost.

The fish and have raised the hunting fees so much that many (casual) hunters who maybe went out one or two days a season are not relicensing. My brother in law who lives out of state isn't going to spend over a hundred bucks for a weekend up at my place. Money lost.

We havn't used the sunfish for a couple of years but kept registering it out of habit. Maybe not this year. Lost money.

We have a mooring that hasn't been used all that much lately. Maybe we should drop that. Lost money.

My point is that many of the dollars spent on the Lake are discretionary dollars and sudden large increases may not bring in more cash.

Just a thought.

Misty Blue.

[kjbathe]

So with more information on the table from the Citizen article, I'm to understand that because:

- Snowmobiles cost more to register, boats should cost more
- Fees haven't been increased in a long time, so they should be now
- Only one objection was voiced at some obscure subcommittee hearing, so increasing the fees is a good idea
- The bill will benefit boat dealers, so it's a good idea
- The bill will benefit town and city clerks, so it's a good idea
- Half of the Marine Patrol budget comes from fees, the other half from the Coast Guard, so it's a good idea.

I'm sorry, but I remain unconvinced.

As the taxpayer that ALSO pays the Coast Guard through taxes, are you trying to convince me that we should increase fees because the Feds are no longer funding the Coast Guard? Or will the Feds still pay half, the State will stay pay half, and then the $3M budget will go up by $X for what?

And I'm not on board with paying more in fees to benefit boat dealers and city clerks. In fact, I'd like to eliminate the latter altogether and just register it all online in one central place.

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by kjbathe

And I'm not on board with paying more in fees to benefit boat dealers and city clerks. In fact, I'd like to eliminate the latter altogether and just register it all online in one central place.

I agree lets all (including the state) save a "boat" load of money by doing all of this online and cutting out all the postage, paperwork, processing people everything. Let one program do it.

-Oh wait somehow this program will cost a lot of money and will not work correctly as the past will show us and then they will need to hire people to figure out why it does not work and to monitor it

[Woodsy]

Since the start of governments... how much is too much?

The economic situation is pretty grim. Everyone has to do more with less. Although it sounds good on paper, the reality is that some things have a fixed cost.... How is the MP supposed to cut money? They are funded by the Nav Fund and that is funded primarily from boat registrations. If Boat registrations are down because of the economy, the Nav Fund has less money. How are the MP supposed to function? Is the MP supposed to cut out late night patrols? After all, there are very few boats out late night... so from a cost analysis perspective it sounds like a good idea. Sure that might save some $$$ but what happens when there is an accident? Sorry, your loved one died, but because of cutbacks we didnt have a patrol that night...

Lets not forget that newly mandated Speed Limit that needs to be enforced... all that officer training and court time needs to be paid for!

I support an increase in the fees applied to boaters. I also think that all watercraft (canoes, kayaks, sailboats) should have to pay the $6.00 for the Lake Restoration Fee! That part of the new fee structure benefits everyone...

The sticker should be simple, no numbers or paperwork and should cost the canoeist/kayaker $10.00. $6 going to the Lake Restoration Fee, $1 to the state to cover the cost of the sticker, $1 to the agent who sold the sticker and $2 to the NHMP to help fund thier operations. You should be able to buy the stickers at any store that chooses to carry them. 1 sticker per boat, to be displayed on the bow.

If they included all watercraft, canoes, kayaks and small sailboats they could lower the fee structure substantially. Those stickers could cost $7 or $8 instead of $10.

Woodsy

[jeffk]

I have no problem with providing online registration but I always think it is funny to believe this will save a lot of money. Computer resources need to be allocated (CPU, storage space, power, internet access) and someone needs to buy or write a program and it will need to be maintained by technicians. The information will need to be backed up and protected. People will want information reports generated and that will take additional programming and resources. Further there are aspects of the process that require document exchange; new boat proof of purchase, the approved registration form and stickers, etc. That would need to be handled by people and the postal service. All this costs money. Overall, maybe you save a little, maybe not.

Further, online registration doesn't work for everyone. There are plenty of people who still prefer to do things via mail or face to face.

The reason I register at the marina is that part of the money, I think it was the boat fee, stayed in the town. If you mailed it to the state the money went to the general fund, I believe. I don't know if that is still true. I preferred the money stay near the boating area. When I pick up my boat from storage I pay and go all at one place.

I would also like a good public explanation by the Marine Patrol for the use of the additional funds. I lean toward supporting the increase but more information is always good.

However, I find it hard to believe that raising the fees $25 bucks on a typical boat is going create a serious problem for anyone. People are spending well over $150 a MONTH on TV, internet, and phone services and they can't manage a $25 a year boat fee increase for the first time in 30 years. Come on.

As to non powerboat stickers, I believe that every form of lake use benefits from better enforcement and lake maintenance programs. If you use the lake, why shouldn't you chip in to keep things in good shape? Again, a $5 or $10 sticker is not going to break anyone. Simple distribution, buy sticker, slap it on canoe. Enforcement, no sticker, $20 fine.

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by jeffk

The reason I register at the marina is that part of the money, I think it was the boat fee, stayed in the town. If you mailed it to the state the money went to the general fund, I believe. I don't know if that is still true. I preferred the money stay near the boating area. When I pick up my boat from storage I pay and go all at one place.

I would also like a good public explanation by the Marine Patrol for the use of the additional funds. I lean toward supporting the increase but more information is always good.

However, I find it hard to believe that raising the fees $25 bucks on a typical boat is going create a serious problem for anyone. People are spending well over $150 a MONTH on TV, internet, and phone services and they can't manage a $25 a year boat fee increase for the first time in 30 years. Come on.

As to non powerboat stickers, I believe that every form of lake use benefits from better enforcement and lake maintenance programs. If you use the lake, why shouldn't you chip in to keep things in good shape? Again, a $5 or $10 sticker is not going to break anyone. Simple distribution, buy sticker, slap it on canoe. Enforcement, no sticker, $20 fine.

In All honesty, I do not think that it is the $25 increase, it is the constant nickel and dime on everything is what people are getting fed up with, the way that most people see it, times are tough cut back spending in their home, and businesses, even the poloticians are doing it in their own lives, but for some reason when they get to that office in the morning all they think about is spending instead of trying to cut back like their voters, yes I am being general here, but the last time I checked when times are tough be creative find ways to be frugal, and the government whether state or Federal, for some reason do not understand that, AS quick evidence in MA where Duval Patrick decided to grant a 5.5% raise to the politicians because it was voted to do so back in 1998 by the people, what he failed to mention is that the raise is contingent on the average mean income of the state and guess what that dropped so their salary either should have dropped or at least no increase. Oh and by the way we also voted to decrease the income tax in MA about 2002 but for some reason we were waiting for that to happen, never did and then a law just pased this past November to not get rid of it, but what about the part we we voted to decrease it?

Off the soap box now

[ApS]

Originally Posted by kjbathe

"...The bill will benefit boat dealers, so it's a good idea..."

One by one, Wolfeboro's dealerships are refusing to process NH boat registrations. I hear that it's a big troublemaker for them—at least under today's inadequate compensation schedule.

The last time I had to register a tiny sailboat, I had to take a 26-mile round-trip drive to Melvin Village: that's a $4 drive to pay Exxon, then give pocket change to the willing dealer!

Originally Posted by Woodsy

"...I also think that all watercraft (canoes, kayaks, sailboats) should have to pay the $6.00 for the Lake Restoration Fee...!"

What possible reason could be given to insist that an 8' windsurfer shell out $$ for Lake Restoration?

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

"...As a paddler and sail-boater, I'm happy to pay...as a good method of supporting the NH Marine Patrol and the milfoil, invasive weed program..."

Out-of-state kayaking visitors remove their kayaks from their roof racks.

Motorboat visitors transport their boats by trailer.

Since most trailers are nearly completely immersed for use—sometimes several times a day—the transport of milfoil fragments from shallow and distant lakes is least likely to be traced to paddlers.

Paddlers aren't Lake Winnipesaukee's enemy, but milfoil definitely is.

IMHO:
Initiate a trailer fee sticker.

[Woodsy]

APS...

You asked: What possible reason could be given to insist that an 8' windsurfer shell out $$ for Lake Restoration?

The reason is that the Windsurfer is using the lake... its also quite possible that the Windsurfer may need NHMP assistance if something were to go very wrong. (Middle of the Broads, too tired to to get back up etc.)

The Lake Restoration Fee applies to all lakes.... even those too small to for motorboats. Milfoil isnt the only problem this fee addresses. Using your logic, because the fee is paid by motorboats, only the lakes that allow motorboats should benefit from these monies.

Woodsy

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

What possible reason could be given to insist that an 8' windsurfer shell out $$ for Lake Restoration?

Perhaps to pick up trash that might be left behind? I know I follow the carry-in/carry-out method of handling my trash but can you be 100% sure that everyone else does? Otherwise, Woodsy covered it!

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Out-of-state kayaking visitors remove their kayaks from their roof racks.

Motorboat visitors transport their boats by trailer.

Since most trailers are nearly completely immersed for use—sometimes several times a day—the transport of milfoil fragments from shallow and distant lakes is least likely to be traced to paddlers.

Paddlers aren't Lake Winnipesaukee's enemy, but milfoil definitely is.

IMHO:
Initiate a trailer fee sticker.

What was it AC2717 was saying about "the constant nickel and dime on everything is what people are getting fed up with,"?!? I can't speak for everyone else that trailers up to the lake, but when I come to the lake, my trailer only goes in the water twice, once to put the boat in and once to take it out!! If someone is putting their trailer in "several times a day", it sounds like they don't know what they're doing!! I already pay a registration fee for my trailer AND a fee for lake preservation and restoration. Maybe it's time everyone else that uses the lake pays that fee!!

Now, according to RSA 270-E:5, in addition to the base registration fee, we (owners of motorized vessels) pay the following fees when we register our boats; $5 to the lake preservation and restoration fund, $1 to the Fish & Game search and rescue fund, $1.50 to authorized registration agents and $5 to the statewide public boat access fund. I don’t see canoers, kayakers, etc. paying their fair share at this time. It seems to me that ALL non-motorized vessels (canoe, kayak, etc.) should be paying those fees in addition to a miniscule registration fee. After all, they use the lake (preservation fee), sometimes need rescue (search & rescue fund) and they have to park their car-with-roof-rack somewhere while they’re using the lake (public access fund). I seem to recall someone posting above referred to a boat registration fee as a user fee. If we're going to look at it that way, then everyone using the lake should be paying some of the fees above.

One last question; can anyone tell me where the state public access is for Lake Winnipesaukee? I’ve never seen or heard of one in existence. If we’re paying $5 for the statewide public boat access fund, there should be a public access to the lake!!

[MAXUM]

Even if there were one, which there isn't, it's probably be like every other state park where they whack you for a state park day fee to use a ramp that in theory was paid for by this statewide public boat access fund. Just another rip off IMHO.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

APS...You asked: What possible reason could be given to insist that an 8' windsurfer shell out $$ for Lake Restoration...?

Yes I did: What does your answer have to do with Lake Restoration?

Originally Posted by Woodsy

"...Using your logic, because the fee is paid by motorboats, only the lakes that allow motorboats should benefit from these monies..."

I've paddled through milfoil before, so I'm OK with that.

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

"...Perhaps to pick up trash that might be left behind? I know I follow the carry-in/carry-out method of handling my trash but can you be 100% sure that everyone else does...?"

I've seen hats, sandwich boxes, and styrofoam coolers blow out of motorboats and, even before the boat hits the water—from trailered boats!

I'm 100% sure that an eight-foot windsurfer (or even a six-foot windsurfer) won't be losing any beer cans from his cooler or sandwich wrappers off his boat!
.

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

"...I can't speak for everyone else that trailers up to the lake, but when I come to the lake, my trailer only goes in the water twice, once to put the boat in and once to take it out!! If someone is putting their trailer in "several times a day", it sounds like they don't know what they're doing!!

I was thinking of fishermen—but I've done it myself.

While searching out waterfront real estate, I inspect all prospects from the water's perspective.

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

"...If we're going to look at it that way, then everyone using the lake should be paying some of the fees above..."

Then when does it stop? Should swim floats pay a fee? Swim noodles? Should swim rafts? Model boats?

Paddlers' impacts on lakes are environmentally invisible—as are windsurfers'.

They are least likely to litter, cause the least amount of mayhem, make the least amount of noise, take up the least amount of room in storage, parking, and ApS-coefficient. Indeed, paddling makes one even more environmentally conscious!

Disclaimer: I have never windsurfed, and haven't canoed or kayaked in Lake Winnipesaukee for several years. Last summer, I had two trailers, but sold one that was unnecessarily taking up space.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

...why add a fee on a family's income that doesn't have a place on the lake?

I don't have a place on the lake but people didn't mind pushing for legislation that they hoped would drive me and others like me (performance boat owners) off the lake!! I'm a NH native, born and raised here, but they're hoping the speed limit will convince me to take my boat elsewhere. Before that happens, I'll see to it that ALL motorized boats are banned from the lake (apologies to owners that opposed the speed limit) AND/OR all out-of-state owners are banned from the lake (apologies to the out-of-staters), regardless of whether the boat is registered in NH or not!! So much for the tourism industry!!

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Yes I did: What does your answer have to do with Lake Restoration?

They're using the lake, aren't they?? That would be the only requirement for paying that fee.

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

I've seen hats, sandwich boxes, and styrofoam coolers blow out of motorboats and, even before the boat hits the water—from trailered boats!

I want to say I can count on one hand the number of times something has blown out of my boat but I can't be sure. Suffice to say if anything HAS ever blown out, I immediately turn around and retrieve it, whether it's trash or non-trash!! I stop to pick up trash that isn't mine, just to get it out of the water!

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

I'm 100% sure that an eight-foot windsurfer (or even a six-foot windsurfer) won't be losing any beer cans from his cooler or sandwich wrappers off his boat!
.

I'm sure he won't lose any of that stuff either but if he's using the lake, I'm sure he can afford a $5 user fee.

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

I was thinking of fishermen—but I've done it myself.

While searching out waterfront real estate, I inspect all prospects from the water's perspective.

Must be nice to have water-front real estate. IF I was inspecting multiple potential real estate purchases on this lake in a single day, I'd only launch my boat ONE time and retrieve it ONE time. Like I said before, it seems like utter foolishness to launch & retrieve your boat multiple times, on the same day, in the same lake (unless it's being worked on and the only way to test is to launch, test, then retrieve and work some more but that's a WHOLE different issue)!!!

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Then when does it stop? Should swim floats pay a fee? Swim noodles? Should swim rafts? Model boats?

Stop being dramatic; I'm sure you and I both know it should only apply to windsurfers and up (kayaks, canoes, sailboats, powerboats, etc.) but you never know, those darn legislators might get carried away as they frequently do, trying to legislate to protect us from ourselves (AND always keeping a sharp eye out for new sources of revenue)!!! Who knows, maybe someday they'll figure out a way to legislate common sense (but I wouldn't hold my breath!)!!

[no-engine]

For those who discuss boat registration fee increases, how about the governor's other proposals?
If one has a NH EZPass account, one gets 30% discount on tolls in NH. He proposes no discount! So, how would that encourage drivers to use any electronic toll collection? Pay for the transponder, but you do not own it!
He is a NICKEL/DIMER!