Supporters thread

[caloway]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

I may not be the only person on this forum who doesn't know what a P26 is.

It's a Pearson 26: http://dan.pfeiffer.net/p26/boat.htm

[sunset on the dock]

The noise issue came to mind last night (watching sunset on the dock). There was a moderate amount of boat traffic coming through the channel, some pretty fast...35 MPH or so, but most of the boats were rather quiet and not at all annoying. Then this extremely noisy, irritating GFBL comes through. All conversation on the dock needs to stop until he's passed by. I bring this up not only relating to the story of the guy wearing the PFD and helmet, but because there seems to be a bit of discussion on the compromise thread about boat noise. Some or one of the posters said that it's a performance issue not to have underwater exhaust/other quieter types of exhaust...though the point was also brought up that they like the noise as well. In any case, aside from the obvious safety benefits of the SL (which have been challenged ad nauseum) it seems as if the noise issue has focused so much of the attention on these boaters. As was mentioned in an earlier post, people who live miles inland on hills overlooking the lake have heard these boats in years past. To me, this is just one more nail in the coffin of the GFBL group. People come here for peace, relaxation, and recreation. I hear from people all the time (renters, day boaters, etc.) who say the lake just has become way too intense and that a very few people who want their thrill of the day by going 70 MPH have ruined it for the majority (until this year).
Last night's boater did seem to scream out "look at me, look at me". This is why (just one more reason) the people of NH will be so unwilling to let go of their hard fought gains from HB 462.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by 4Fun

"...At the risk of being deleted..."

For the record, I inadvertantly posted in the Opposer's Thread and later apologized in that thread. That post—and apology—was deleted, with no small relief to myself!

Originally Posted by 4Fun

"...I am not a supporter of the speed limit but I do support a noise limit. I think they really are 2 different debates. I am not sure a boat going 45 is much quieter that the same boat going 65. Perhaps stronger noise regulation is needed..."

About 20% of our boaters admit they have LOUD boats that can go fast enough to break the speed limit. Many appear to be in lock-step with each other's noises, and have no indications to compromise their "endearment" of noise.

Recently, due to the hazards of high speed, the legal noise-measure guidelines were changed to stationary measurement.

In response, the noise industry devised mechanical means to defeat those new guidelines. "LOUD PIPES" can be diverted to be acceptably quiet while stationary—but once underway, revert to a new and unapologetic level of NOISE.

If you're perceiving the lake as being LOUDER, you're right.

For me, the lake's last 15 years have been WAY too noisy. This, from "yours-truly", whose career in handling explosive devices should have me totally hearing-impaired by now!

Originally Posted by 4Fun

"...Or just enforcement...??"

1) Last year, I could count on seeing an MP in my neighborhood every day between 10 to 11-AM—but hardly ever on weekends. Though at distances that couldn't necessarily determine the reason for a stop, "stops" were frequent.

2) Every sunny day, I spend three hours daily to scan the six long miles of The Broads off Rattlesnake Island for my unofficial sailboat count/ratio. (Running about 1:6 to powerboats, BTW). This month, I've only seen two MPs out there.

One MP was towing a riderless Jet-Ski at about 35-MPH—another MP was at top speed on a mission and didn't notice a white 40-foot Fountain that passed the MP at about 70-MPH.

3) Scanning this forum hasn't turned up a single written citation this year!

Originally Posted by 4Fun

"...My boat, a 24' Fourwinns bowrider has a 280HP Volvo I/O. The noise is minimal. You can't hear it idle when on the dock. It's very nice to have a conversation when moving. I also can't stand when a LOUD boat forces me to stop a conversation.

.
The required emergency signaling device is also designed to audibly "stop a conversation". Can somebody tell me the point of that requirement, when every passing LOUD boat can obliterate that signal for miles around?

[sunset on the dock]

And as far as some having no indication of compromising their endearment of noise,this is why I am a bit leery of embracing some of the other speed compromises. I've commented a couple of times on the compromise forum that their poll results seem to be dramatically at odds with what I see on my shore (100% pro speed limit) and the with the OTHER nefarious poll. In any case, responders to the compromise poll total a mere approx. 1/3 of 1% of the 4234 forum members (approx. 160). And of course on the boating forum, there is a high preponderance of young, male, computer literate powerboating fans. What about swimmers, kayakers, sailors...the response is that "anyone is free to vote on this poll", ignoring the obvious fact that not everyone is on this forum. And where are the 4000 plus other forum members?
And when someone comments on how "it seems that the poll shows 80% of people are against the speed limit", everyone hits the thanks button, which brings me to the following point: I'm not sure what I find more perplexing...that people feel a poll like theirs represents a valid sample, or that they know it doesn't and are just playing along so as to be able to say they have a poll purporting to show their results, or that they think our representatives in Concord are stupid enough not to see right through such a statistically biased poll (believe me, they're not)? I mention all of this because, if, as they say, permenant passage of the SL is such a slam-dunk, the reaction from those who take the poll seriously will be more of the same angry rhetoric like "the fear mongers won with their campaign of lies", when in reality most people do in fact like the SL.

[Island Life]

Count me in as one more person who thinks this has been one of the best boating years in a long time because of the speed limit. Many of us who are in favor of speed limits didn't quit the forum, we just ignored the threads about speed limits because it's not worth the mental energy to get into that debate online.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

"...your doing a good job blowing smoke...."

...and...

Originally Posted by chipj29

"...you should be posting those links..."

...and...

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

"...you posting a bunch of links..."

Originally Posted by Island Life

"...Count me in as one more person who thinks this has been one of the best boating years in a long time because of the speed limit..."

It WAS pretty good, wasn't it?

Too bad "the usual suspects" pick and choose which NH laws to observe.

Too bad "the usual suspects" pick and choose which Forum rules to observe, also. They have the Opponents' Thread all to themselves.

Too bad they can't discipline their responses away from the Supporters' thread—which is restricted to Supporters.

Overall, there seems to be a lot of "enlightening" that remains to be done.

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

The problem el is that you think every boating thread we are involved in is a SL thread. You have several Post in threads where they don't belong. The Funny one is you posting a bunch of links in a thread about incidents which didn't even happen on the lake.

Here's on in Texas where FIVE died when "two speed boats, traveling at a very high rate of speed, collided during the annual poker run";
http://www.kten.com/global/story.asp?S=5361738
These preventable tragedies are happening over and over again all over the country...all over the world. Cowboys thinking that going too fast in a boat is not dangerous. That they are supermen. That they are not going to die or that they are not going to kill someone else... until they are proven wrong in one fraction of a second. From the trends of all these posts, you'll see that they usually kill someone else. Then they try to blame it on something else or someone else. How can this not be relevant to the attempts to end our SL law?
It's a perfect parallel.

[sunset on the dock]

This is the supporter's thread ...{opposers} posts should be deleted. BTW, the opposers thread has been rather dead for a long time as well. And there are many SL opponents who seem to be posting only on the active threads open to all. It cuts both ways.

Sorry for the gap, but I am being limited to 5 posts per day (because I am posting information that shows why boating speed limits are so necessary?).

Here's one where only one guy died;
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic..._A8_spanc20465

At five of these a day, I should be able to show you examples of why boating at unlimited speeds is so dangerous for another hundred years.

[ApS]

It's true that this propeller isn't a "cleaver" prop, (nor is the propeller safety-equipment advertiser's), but back to this intimidating "chopper-upper" in a bit).

The answer to jmen24's question (an apparent "Thank-You" non-sequitur) appeared earlier!

No life jackets here, but one on a passenger? That's like buckling-up every child in a car, but no seatbelt for the driver with which to maintain control over the steering wheel!

A reply to Airwave's assertion that boats oversized for Winnipesaukee don't make big wakes, I offer this photo—where there is more than one GFBL!




You may recall that the owner of this boat—off my dock—asserted his GFBL was traveling at "50-MPH". (!)

That Jet-Ski pictured racing him? —never caught him.

BTW: Note that the windshield is painted over—everyone must stand to peer ahead—and that lanyard-use is not determined.



To the question, why [is ApS] "all hung-up on speedboats running up onto land?", I just realized that photos I took of these boats are taken in front of Camp Ossipee!

Camp Ossipee is an active, private, lakefront, seasonal "family camp", with ownership shared with about 75 boating families.





1) Camp Ossipee was established 150 years ago, and are not "visitors to the lake". Camp Ossipee trailers NO boats to Lake Winnipesaukee.

2) The camp has 45 tent platforms—none of which is higher than two feet above the ground. Each tent (canvas) encloses about 400 square feet—one for each family. They are all within 50-feet of the lake, and even closer than that to one another.

3) This community's entire tent-platform elevation is no higher than two feet!

4) The "assault record" for feral boats running into the shoreline is 500-feet deep! There are plenty of Winnipesaukee residences within 50' of the lake—and some are brand-new! One off Wolfeboro Bay is within 20-feet and another—near Pick Point Cottages in Wolfeboro—has a ZERO distance from the lake!

5) The last photo attached is an example of a fairly active Camp Ossipee boating activity. (The Camp Ossipee property is just off the swimmer's right shoulder). The photo was taken in about the same location as that "50-MPH" boat that's not leaving any wake.

6) That tiny "dot" of a swimmer, though accompanied by a rowboat , is often accompanied by a kayak. (Yes, "the kayaks that we can't see").

[Tiger Lilly]

Hurray for this thread. As an avid kayaker, here's to peace and quiet on the lake!

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by Tiger Lilly

Hurray for this thread. As an avid kayaker, here's to peace and quiet on the lake!

Welcome! The speed limit forum has a long and proud tradition of tolerance for women kayakers! OK I'm just razzing a few of the speed limit opposers and I am ready and willing to take my licks (probably in less than 5 minutes) but I couldn't resist a little late morning goofing around on the forum. Seriously though, there is a lot of good natured jousting between the factions on the forum and hence a lot of fun is had by all (well, make that most). It can get a little lonely on the speed limit threads for us SL supporters, so a double welcome. My wife is a big kayaker...she was going to use the screen name of "SPEEDBUMP", but I talked her out of it. OK opposers, let me have it (preferably on another thread), I deserve it..."thankyou sir, may I have another?""

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

Welcome! The speed limit forum has a long and proud tradition of tolerance for women kayakers! OK I'm just razzing a few of the speed limit opposers and I am ready and willing to take my licks (probably in less than 5 minutes) but I couldn't resist a little late morning goofing around on the forum. Seriously though, there is a lot of good natured jousting between the factions on the forum and hence a lot of fun is had by all (well, make that most). It can get a little lonely on the speed limit threads for us SL supporters, so a double welcome. My wife is a big kayaker...she was going to use the screen name of "SPEEDBUMP", but I talked her out of it. OK opposers, let me have it (preferably on another thread), I deserve it..."thankyou sir, may I have another?""

I think you should have let your wife use the screen name "SPEEDBUMP" it would be a good name to see every once in a while in a post. Speedbumps... now that is something that needs to be explored!

Well Sunset I just got done cleaning up my Kayak and Canoe and stored them away. I sure had an enjoyable time on the Lake this year. For some reason it seemed a lot calmer than past years. I wish I could put my finger on what made it that way but whatever it was, I hope next year is the same way.
I might even let my grandchildren venture out a little more on the lake next year if this trend keeps up.
Maybe you and I can get together next year and kayak around the Lake. Kayaking is a good for keeping you upper body in shape. Maybe we'll see an eagle flying or nesting in a tree.

[ApS]

1) ...Maybe even view a 30-acre family tenting-grounds—which is even difficult to see from the air!

2) "Speed Bump" (two words) was my user-name at the forum in its day in 2002.

3) Opponents tell us they "need" those over-sized boats for days that Lake Winnipesaukee gets rough; however, there are many sunny days where boating shouldn't even be considered!



4) Okay, back to "Cleaver" props. These are examples of "Cleaver" (or "Chopper") props:





Why are they named for the "Cleavers" we are familiar with? (Also called "Choppers").


Because they'll make mincemeat even when not turning!

The above-mentioned safety firm is a supplier of Kevlar equipment (and gloves) so that the cleavers' razor edges can be touched.



Are "Cleavers" found—anchored or moving—on Lake Winnipesaukee?

Answer: Yes.

5) Nobody has countered the argument that the newest PFDs for sub-adults have a disclaimer that they "Have not been tested at 50-MPH", and that they "Are not recommended for high speed water activities". Both OCDActive and I are both too distant from our new PFDs to scan the disclaimer into our respective computers. Perhaps someone here has a new one and post that embossed message themselves.

6) Sure, I've exceeded highway speed limits, but many others are not as "wised-up" on this 19-mile stretch I must drive at only 45-MPH.



If you "fatally-flub" this test, the state will put up an aluminum "pie-plate" disk in your honor at the scene of your recent demise. Oftentimes, there are sad small clusters of these "pie-plates".

7) One opponent states his boat is slow and quiet; however his boat is listed among the others at the "extreme-boat" website I call SOS. Another has million$ at $take, but refuses to "recuse him$elf" from the safety aspects of this debate.

8) Another touts the Coast Guard, but takes no note of accidents actually caused by the Coast Guard! There was no lanyard in use when an empty CG boat ran into the side of a cruise ship! Oops...that didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee—so never mind.

Wait! The Coast Guard isn't on Lake Winnipesaukee—so it never happened at all!

9) Opponents tell us that it's funny to laugh at the fears of his passengers, then just three posts later, will try to change the subject!


(Is it OK to be only a few years older than the last "Safety Captain" (injured badly) to run into an island with results that proved fatal for a passenger?)

10) Opponents repeatedly tell us "how safe" New Hampshire lakes are, but fail to mention that there is no smaller state with no shorter season!

11) For years, opponents have told "the quiet people" to leave Winnipesaukee and to "Move to Squam Lake!"

12)

SL opponents, I suggest respectfully that we do not comment in this thread as it is for supporters only.

Well, the warning came 'way too late, but "violating the rules" isn't important (or unknown) unless a violation shows up on one's license.

BTW: Supporters can do without the insults:

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

... I couldn't resist a little late morning goofing around on the forum. Seriously though, there is a lot of good natured jousting between the factions on the forum and hence a lot of fun is had by all (well, make that most). It can get a little lonely on the speed limit threads for us SL supporters, so a double welcome. My wife is a big kayaker...she was going to use the screen name of "SPEEDBUMP", but I talked her out of it. OK opposers, let me have it (preferably on another thread), I deserve it..."thankyou sir, may I have another?""

Sunset, Size doesn't matter. Big and small women should be able to enjoy their kayak ride on the lake. As long as they are under the weight limit for the kayak and follow the rules.

In fact, Big kayakers are easier to spot for those who boat faster than their ability to see .

You were right to talk her out of using Speedbump as a screen name. Sounds too much like SpeedLump. BTW, I do take what people say LITERALLY (sometimes).

Now back to your regularly scheduled debate.

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by Skipper of the Sea Que

Sunset, Size doesn't matter. Big and small women should be able to enjoy their kayak ride on the lake. As long as they are under the weight limit for the kayak and follow the rules.

In fact, Big kayakers are easier to spot for those who boat faster than their ability to see .

You were right to talk her out of using Speedbump as a screen name. Sounds too much like SpeedLump. BTW, I do take what people say LITERALLY (sometimes).

Now back to your regularly scheduled debate.

You're sharp this morning Skipper! That was a good pickup on Sunsets wording.

[ApS]

"...was that a cleaver prop 5 blade? or 4...?"

Speaking of cleaver propellers, do Supporters know the reason a manufacturer of razor-resistant safety equipment includes this photo in its advertising?

This guy only killed one with his Baja, but he also seriously injured the other. A history of speeding tickets. I wonder what the odds are that he was not going over 45MPH when he smashed into this little 19-footer;
http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local..._to_take_weeks


That's my five for today. Sorry for being so late, but I had a great day out on the lake. It was just like summer. Taking in one of the boats tomorrow so I might not be able to give the next five reports until tomorrow night.

Here's some good info about how dangerous high speed boating is. Look at all these accidents by sober professional speed boat racers;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...torboat_racing