Speed Limit Compromise Poll

[Bear Islander]

If you check out this link you can see how the forum voted 4 and 1/2 years ago.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=1432


I don't understand how people can say this is not a boating forum. Look up near the top of the page and there is a link to "Forums" click that and one of the options is "Boating" click that and you get the option "Speed Limits" then you will find this thread. Face it people, we are on a boating forum and 78% are in favor of a speed limit. The permanent bill is going to pass in a walk.

[tis]

I don't think 78% of boaters are in favor of keeping the speed limit. I think a new poll asking if boaters are in favor or not would clearly show that, BI.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

If you check out this link you can see how the forum voted 4 and 1/2 years ago.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=1432


I don't understand how people can say this is not a boating forum. Look up near the top of the page and there is a link to "Forums" click that and one of the options is "Boating" click that and you get the option "Speed Limits" then you will find this thread. Face it people, we are on a boating forum and 78% are in favor of a speed limit. The permanent bill is going to pass in a walk.

BI... I am again very surprised. I thought we were on the same page looking for a compromise..

1. It is a boating forum in a General Website concering the lake. The statement that only boating individuals are voting is completely false, bacause anyone on the website can come into the boating forum, not just boaters, and cast a vote. I would agree that the majority voting are boaters but not necessarilly everyone.

2. 78% are not in favor of speed limits. Since I wrote the poll I was clear to write in Unlimited in 3 of the catagorys. You can easily say that 60% are in favor of UNLIMITED (some with restrictions: distance, broads)

To say 80% are in favor of speed limits is a generalization that is being twisted.

You and I have talked at length about a compromise. I have made it clear that while I would want it to be totally unlimited I am willing to compromise to make it work for everyone. I was under the impression you are also willing to negotiate this. Am I still correct on that assumption?

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

I have made it clear that while I would want it to be totally unlimited I am willing to compromise to make it work for everyone. I was under the impression you are also willing to negotiate this. Am I still correct on that assumption?

Aren't we just tilting at windmills here? We can all agree to anything and any compromise on this boating forum but it doesn't make it reality. We could all agree that pigs can fly, or sometimes fly, or fly 45 MPH (25 at night). Point is, there are many people not on this forum who are happy with the SL and even a few, at least on my shore, who feel 45/25 is too much of a compromise(especially the 25 MPH nite). What we all conclude on this forum seems like a small and inconsequential contribution to the reality of how people perceive the SL is working.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

Aren't we just tilting at windmills here? We can all agree to anything and any compromise on this boating forum but it doesn't make it reality. We could all agree that pigs can fly, or sometimes fly, or fly 45 MPH (25 at night). Point is, there are many people not on this forum who are happy with the SL and even a few, at least on my shore, who feel 45/25 is too much of a compromise(especially the 25 MPH nite). What we all conclude on this forum seems like a small and inconsequential contribution to the reality of how people perceive the SL is working.

While I understand your point, that what is said and accomplished on this forum may have little impact in Concord, however it does allow us to discuss openly our personal thoughts. Although we are a small group it has to start somewhere.

I feel that we have made progress. In the past it was an "all or nothing" mentality. In the past few months I have spoken with many that would like to meet somewhere in between. If it can happen here it perhaps can carry forward elsewhere and maybe even to Concord.

You speak of many people who are happy, I know of many who are very Unhappy... We will never please everyone but lets at least try to please the majority... This polls majority may be mostly made up of boaters but I think it clearly shows that those who are the ones having to abide by the laws should have a larger say. I know you feel differently but that is what open debates are for.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

This polls majority may be mostly made up of boaters but I think it clearly shows that those who are the ones having to abide by the laws should have a larger say.

Then are you saying that someone who has to listen to GFBL noise but doesnt boat has less of a say than boaters? Do boaters who log 100 hours per season have less say than someone who logs 200 hours? How about my neighbor who swims but doesn't boat? Do boats capable of going faster than 45 MPH have more say than those going less (afterall, they're the ones more affected by the law)? I guarantee you that the answer from Concord will be a loud and unequivocal NO.

[sunset on the dock]

One more thing, OCDACTIVE...I have to say that in your many posts your replies are always polite, above the belt, and never angry. I've seen some who get near rabid when people disagree with them and that's not you. You seem like a good person and I appreciate and understand your passion about what you do. I mean that.

[gtxrider]

Having spent 2 weeks on the lake my experience shows it is still the idiots that don't know 150' and not the speed that causes the troubles. Did the GTX exceed 45 mph?

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

Then are you saying that someone who has to listen to GFBL noise but doesnt boat has less of a say than boaters? Do boaters who log 100 hours per season have less say than someone who logs 200 hours? How about my neighbor who swims but doesn't boat? Do boats capable of going faster than 45 MPH have more say than those going less (afterall, they're the ones more affected by the law)? I guarantee you that the answer from Concord will be a loud and unequivocal NO.

First of all Sunset, I also appreciate your mannerisms while discussing this. Too many people take the tone of a conversation as heated and it drives the discussion right down hill. Obviously there are extremely different takes on this issue and heated debates can become personal. Frankly nothing is solved by that and peoples integrity in these threads goes down to the point where you become known as a troublemaker or troll. I try to stay on topic and objective as possible while voicing my opinions. I appreciate that you have done the same.

Now as far as your quote above ....................

This is where your side of speed limit debate goes off the rails. Speed and noise are two seperate issues. While my boat (notice I am not saying all GF Boats) is capable of exceeding 85mph, whether I am at 45mph or 65 mph, I am inside the law on sound. If noise is your argument then lets head over to that thread....

No I do not think that GFB votes or someone who logs a multitude of hours should have more of a vote over your neighbor who swims..... What I was alluding to is "in my opinion" people directly effected by the limits should be the ones voting on them such as your parents, your neighbor, lake business owners, property owners, those who only do 25 hours a year, and those who do 500.... Because, these are the people who understand the lake, understand the impact, and has first hand knowledge of what goes on. My contention simply was I get very frustrated when people conduct polls to people who have no comparisson, may have never visited the lake, and really have no stake in what is decided. For their vote doesn't mean anything to them. Where people who have voted on this website have a personal stake and are educated as to what is going on.

We will just have to agree to disagree, but I respect your thoughts.

Would you personally mind a compromise? I know you would like to keep it the way it is now, and I would like to have it unlimited, but would you be willing to compromise?

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

BI... I am again very surprised. I thought we were on the same page looking for a compromise..

1. It is a boating forum in a General Website concering the lake. The statement that only boating individuals are voting is completely false, bacause anyone on the website can come into the boating forum, not just boaters, and cast a vote. I would agree that the majority voting are boaters but not necessarilly everyone.

2. 78% are not in favor of speed limits. Since I wrote the poll I was clear to write in Unlimited in 3 of the catagorys. You can easily say that 60% are in favor of UNLIMITED (some with restrictions: distance, broads)

To say 80% are in favor of speed limits is a generalization that is being twisted.

You and I have talked at length about a compromise. I have made it clear that while I would want it to be totally unlimited I am willing to compromise to make it work for everyone. I was under the impression you are also willing to negotiate this. Am I still correct on that assumption?

Please don't confuse my predictions with my hopes. I HOPE there will be a compromise that makes more people happy. I PREDICT the permanent speed limit, 45/25, will pass easily.

I don't think I am twisting anything. 78% voted for one of the speed limit options. Therefore 78% favor a speed limit of some kind.

You will also notice that the polls show no uniformity in finding a compromise.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Please don't confuse my predictions with my hopes. I HOPE there will be a compromise that makes more people happy. I PREDICT the permanent speed limit, 45/25, will pass easily.

I don't think I am twisting anything. 78% voted for one of the speed limit options. Therefore 78% favor a speed limit of some kind.

You will also notice that the polls show no uniformity in finding a compromise.

Ahh thank you for the clairification.. While I don't think it will be an easy pass, I think we definately need a compromise to be put into motion or else it will be back to the all or nothing.

Now I see your point as to "one of the speed limit options" I think we are just having a disagreement on the wording you have choosen. When I hear "speed limits" that means there is a threshold I can not pass. While 2 of the 3 unlimited options there are "restrictions" and not "limits" because as long as you are adhering to a certain standard i.e. in the broads, outside a certain distance perameter, then there are "No Limits". So I would say then that only 2 of the polling options favor some type of "limit" whether that be a compromised limit 65, or the current limits.

So currently I would say 46% would favor some kind of limits.

I think it is more of a verbage issue rather then an actual disagreement on the numbers.

[BroadHopper]

In NH politics is that it reach an all time low. NH Business magazine reports that the NH public has no confident with the current legislature and the representatives are fearing for a huge upset in the next election. Pilliod is trying to make his constituents happy by 'changing the subject' and make them happy with 'feel good' legislature. Typical of politicians who only care about themselves and not the people they represent.
That is why this passage is happening. To make the people feel that something is good coming from the current legislature.

That is why statistics and common sense will never prevail in politics. The reason why the economy is what it is today. Greed and Power.