One way or the other

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Just go out to the end of your dock in August and listen if you don't think the lake isn't quieter(even with gas $2.00/gal cheaper). And thank God you can go out fishing at the buoys without some GFBL screaming past you at 70 MPH just 150' from your anchored boat...that's not "perceived side effects"? And as far as 1 ticket, that's even more evidence that speed limits are working. No statistics? That from someone(a teacher) who has repeatedly shown no working knowledge of even the most rudimentary fundamentals of polling and it's statistical implications. People who use Winnipesaukee will not give up this quantum leap in the lake's quality of life.

While I see your premise to your arguement, however this is where your position goes off the rails.

1. the lake is quieter due to the economy nothing more. There have been story after story on WMUR that people have not see vacancy's like this in years and tourism is at one if its all time lows. Marinas have had terrible sales figures and resturants are also feeling the pinch. Showing that it is quieter not due to limits but lack of people of all boating types.

2. The winnfabs pushed for the speed limit test zones and were disappointed in the results. The MP stated on the floor of the House that the test zone data proved (as they had said all along) there is not a speeding problem on our big lake. It is lack of education and adherence to existing rules.

The winnfabs again argued that the reason there was little to no speeding was because the GFB just avoided the test zones. Now whether that was a ploy or not is irrelevant.

They then argued that if the "entire lake" had limits then we would see an entirely different set of statistial results (because GFB would have no where to hide).

Well now that still hasn't happened. And if you read back on threads even before the test zones it was said that what supporters would do, as soon as the data showed speeding was not a problem, is they would jump on their soap box and state: "Hey look how well they are working"

That may be your opinion and that is perfectly fine. However it was not the intention or the arguement made for the 2 year test period by the people that pushed for them.

The arguement was: Put them into effect and see how many we catch to make the lake safer. NOT, put them in effect and no one will speed.

So although you may "feel" safer, the reasoning of the supporters (winnfabs) has been proven wrong.

My personal opinion is that they had no intention of trying to prove anything with any data and either way they were going to push for 'permanent' limits.

Lets just hope that the Legislature can take of their blind folds and see this progression for themselves.

[Turtle Boy]

As HN said, laws are enacted to curb specific problems. Last year, with a faltering economy and $5 gas vs. this year with a faltering economy and $3 gas, the difference is like night and day...boats aren't screaming by you 150' from your fishing boat at 70 MPH and one can actually have a conversation on the dock. There are people all over the lake who feel this way, and as was pointed out before, some of them are our elected officials in Concord...they can see the results with their own eyes, they don't have to take anyone's word for it. As far as Winnfabs and pushing their "agenda", let's not forget the powerboat industry and NHRBA pushing theirs down our legislators throats...I'm happy the house and senate took off their blindfolds and recognized this.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

As HN said, laws are enacted to curb specific problems. Last year, with a faltering economy and $5 gas vs. this year with a faltering economy and $3 gas, the difference is like night and day...boats aren't screaming by you 150' from your fishing boat at 70 MPH and one can actually have a conversation on the dock. There are people all over the lake who feel this way, and as was pointed out before, some of them are our elected officials in Concord...they can see the results with their own eyes, they don't have to take anyone's word for it. As far as Winnfabs and pushing their "agenda", let's not forget the powerboat industry and NHRBA pushing theirs down our legislators throats...I'm happy the house and senate took off their blindfolds and recognized this.

So you also think then that the accumulation of data was a ploy then and part of their agenda?

Also, you don't feel the economy has nothing to do with the lack of boats on the lake?

Just wondering your opinion.

[pm203]

The bottom line for me is that of all of the high performance boats I know of, none have left the lake, and none are doing anything differently. So, how can the lake be any quieter? In fact, I have noticed some additional HP boats on the lake this year. The Marine Patrol has always stated that speed was never an issue. The issue is a very small group of selfish, self-centered individuals trying to avenge the death of their friend. And, what's worse, maybe using this tragedy not to avenge, but for their own personal benefit to get what they really want, another Golden Pond and the lake to themselves.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by pm203

The bottom line for me is that of all of the high performance boats I know of, none have left the lake, and none are doing anything differently. So, how can the lake be any quieter?

If none of the owner's of the GFBL's that you know are doing anything differently, yet he sees a huge difference this year in GFBL behavior, then maybe the issue is that your friends are behaving more badly (read "breaking the law") than the average GFBL owner. As El said, wouldn't it be nice if all of us could pick and choose which laws to obey. This is why Speed Limits will be here to stay. As far as a small group wanting the lake to themselves, you're as welcome as anyone else...and the compromise of 45/25 allows you to go very fast still (though I don't understand all the grumbling about the SL if the SL hasn't changed yours or your friends behavior one bit).

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

(though I don't understand all the grumbling about the SL if the SL hasn't changed yours or your friends behavior one bit).

Funny, How it changes your behavior....................................

[MeEscape]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

As HN said, laws are enacted to curb specific problems. Last year, with a faltering economy and $5 gas vs. this year with a faltering economy and $3 gas, the difference is like night and day...boats aren't screaming by you 150' from your fishing boat at 70 MPH and one can actually have a conversation on the dock. There are people all over the lake who feel this way, and as was pointed out before, some of them are our elected officials in Concord...they can see the results with their own eyes, they don't have to take anyone's word for it. As far as Winnfabs and pushing their "agenda", let's not forget the powerboat industry and NHRBA pushing theirs down our legislators throats...I'm happy the house and senate took off their blindfolds and recognized this.

Just for the record, the Dow Jones Index didn’t drop until October 2008, after most boats were out of the water, unemployment was in the low 6’s through November (it is now at 9.5), there was not a recognized faltering economy during the 2008 boating season in New Hampshire.

People who can spend six figures plus for GFBL’s are not affected by fluctuations in the price of gasoline which causes them to pay maybe a couple of [hundred] bucks more for a fill up, they are effected by a seven figure hit to their portfolios or a lost job.

Proof of this is the price of boats, new and used, fell in the September/October 2008 time frame, after the market fell and at the time gas prices were also falling.

There are fewer boats on the lake this year because toys tend to be sold off before people give up their homes.