Pine Cone Pub policy??

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

Ishoot, absolutely not. I think I made it clear that the policy should apply to ALL motor vehicle operators. I don't have the numbers handy, but they are available....what is the percentage of drivers on the road on a typical Friday or Saturday night who are legally "impaired" by alcohol? It's a staggering number. And don't get me wrong...I'm far from a teetotaler, I enjoy my alcohol as much as anybody, but I choose to limit myself when I'm out. Perhaps a limit imposed on those who cannot impose one on themselves could be a good idea. Just sayin'..... not trying to start a controversy, but trying to have an adult conversation.

Phantom;

Then we are very much in agreement!

Regarding this statement you made however...

"Perhaps a limit imposed on those who cannot impose one on themselves could be a good idea."

The state has already done this and I believe it to be .08 Anyone who breaks this law should be punished to the fullest extent of the law! No other laws or policies need apply.

Thanks for your reply!

Dan

[Happy Gourmand]

But...IF those who do not self limit could only hurt themselves in an accident, then all would be good. Yes, the .08 is IMPOSED by law so I guess my choice of words was not perfectly clear.
How many times has a typical driver who is caught above the limit endangered my and your family and friends by driving in an impaired condition before he/she was caught?
That's the crux of the issue I was trying to present. The law as it is, is good. but just like the SL (oh Gawd, I hate to bring THAT up) you have to get caught. Maybe what we should be talking about is the penalties that should be doled out when an individual is caught the first time. I understand that DUI is not a problem at all in some European countries because the consequences are so severe. Maybe we should follow their lead?

[SumoDog]

You also have to remember - Europe does not demonize alcohol and drugs like we do. I spent a month on student exchange in Paris in the 80's - no drinking age - kids were fine. We set up road blocks, "educate" our children about the evils of it, make you live 21 years before you can try it - of course we are going to have alcohol issues - kids want to know what the big deal is. Our state says dont drink and drive, but they set up shopping mall size liquor stores on roads where the average speed is 70 mph. Yes you should not ever, drink in excess and operate anything - but dont take the rights of many away to enforce the will upon a few. Let the Pine Cone set whatever policy they want - they are paying the liability insurance not us - I have yet to get a DWI on the trip from my couch to my bedroom.

[Argie's Wife]

Originally Posted by SumoDog

You also have to remember - Europe does not demonize alcohol and drugs like we do. I spent a month on student exchange in Paris in the 80's - no drinking age - kids were fine.

In Amsterdam, only littering is illegal.

Funny, we were just discussing this tonight at the table. Hubby had procured some fine beer (Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout ) and our oldest boy says, "How's come I don't get a special drink on Friday night?" I asked him if he wanted to try a sip of beer and he declined but opted for some Kool-Aid. We discussed how his dad was raised as a first-generation American, as his folks allowed the kids to drink wine at the dinner table or at special occasions. It was no big deal to them (they're Greek). It wasn't a taboo to them and it's not in my house either.

I figure if he has "permission" to try these things it won't be half as much fun as if he sneaked it.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Phantom;

Then we are very much in agreement!

Regarding this statement you made however...

"Perhaps a limit imposed on those who cannot impose one on themselves could be a good idea."

The state has already done this and I believe it to be .08 Anyone who breaks this law should be punished to the fullest extent of the law! No other laws or policies need apply.

Thanks for your reply!

Dan

the .08 is imposed by the insurance companies, and the Feds use it to control the flow of highway dollars to the states. That's about all they do. Insurance companies like it for obvious reasons, states do it for even more obvious reasons. If you look at the statistics, the vast majority of accidents that are alcohol-related involve levels far higher than .08.

For such a provincial country, you'd think we'd have a better safety record. We don't. Maybe it's the culture?

[Irish mist]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

the .08 is imposed by the insurance companies, and the Feds use it to control the flow of highway dollars to the states. That's about all they do. Insurance companies like it for obvious reasons, states do it for even more obvious reasons. If you look at the statistics, the vast majority of accidents that are alcohol-related involve levels far higher than .08.

For such a provincial country, you'd think we'd have a better safety record. We don't. Maybe it's the culture?

Bingo The insuance lobby (and all the federal & state reps & senators who are elected to our legislative bodies) control these "laws" to make a fortune for their gang hence getting a 6 year surcharge on your car insurance for a vehicle infraction.......nice business if you can set it up I suppose. The public (us) just pay.

[SumoDog]

Interesting comment about insurance - when I worked in the F&B industry - we always watched our liquor to food ratio's - if they got too close the premiums skyrocketed - sadly the Pine Cone and others have to be strict - and maybe lose liquor sales in order to make their liability insurance affordable - I am sure they have no policy that limits pizza intake for snowmobilers - but the way our society is going I am sure someone will sue a local restaurant for over serving thus contributing to their obesity...I can see the lawyers hanging outside McDonalds with scales in hand