What Speed Limit ????????

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

There is no speed limit on frozen water.

This needs to change.

How can we just let these SnowCowboys ride at unlimited speeds.

I can't believe that nice Senator from Belmont failed to see that this frozen water is unregulated!!!!!!

[Kracken]

We need to make the snow/ice of our lake more tranquil and peacefull than it has been in recent years. We need to make sure people on ice skates and flying saucer sleds feel safe without having noisy quater ton machines of death flying by them at speeds not seen since…….

Wait a second, as I was typing this I realized some people might actually think it’s a good idea and start sending letters to the Laconia Sun.

Originally Posted by Kracken

We need to make sure people on ice skates and flying saucer sleds feel safe

I'm sure that once a few entrepreneurs recognize the highly profitable but yet untapped "winter cowboy" market and start designing ever-faster, ever-louder, and ever-larger snowmobiles to attract them, then when those cowboys start getting sucked into the "need-for-speed" marketing program for these vehicles and start buying them in larger and larger numbers and start operating them (often while drinking) more and more recklessly on the ice during the more crowded winter events, and we have a few fatal accidents, we will then need to start talking about speed limits for them too....of course. It only makes sense that as environments change and risks increase, safety laws need to evolve to keep up. How can anyone with even a modicum of common sense not understand and agree with this logic? Oh wait...
Besides, don't snowmobiles at least have brakes?

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Kracken

We need to make the snow/ice of our lake more tranquil and peacefull than it has been in recent years. We need to make sure people on ice skates and flying saucer sleds feel safe without having noisy quater ton machines of death flying by them at speeds not seen since…….

Wait a second, as I was typing this I realized some people might actually think it’s a good idea and start sending letters to the Laconia Sun.

Good Call Kracken... Next thing they will do is try to install tolls on trails to service them.

Ooops there we go again throwing out ideas that they might actually use...

We have to stop that..

Good thing that accidents like this don't happen on Winnipesaukee anymore since we got the SL;

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/n...1.1501898?qr=1

[OCDACTIVE]

Kracken.. A friend of mine in alton.... her father just bought a brand new formula. I believe Fastech with twins... I am trying to get the details for you so you can look for him. Hoping to meet up with him a shibleys at some point. you should join us!

[DEJ]

I agree with you OCD, tolls on trails are in order!!!

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by DEJ

I agree with you OCD, tolls on trails are in order!!!

Maybe they can set them up in the broads to cut back on the cowboyesq attitude.

[DEJ]

How about hover crafts and air boats, they can go pretty fast as well, perhaps laws need to be passed to slow them down as well.

[DEJ]

EZ pass on sleds, now that is a great way to generate revenue for the State. Perhaps you should contact the Governor with that suggestion.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by DEJ

How about hover crafts and air boats, they can go pretty fast as well, perhaps laws need to be passed to slow them down as well.

Actually how bout all them there vehicles driving on the ice? As of now any one of them could potentially travel at limitless speeds while driving on the ice. I aint never seen no speed limit sign stuck in the ice!

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by DEJ

How about hover crafts and air boats, they can go pretty fast as well, perhaps laws need to be passed to slow them down as well.

We hit 105 in my winter airboat on GPS between Diamond and Welch a few years back when I had it. The conditions were perfect, smooth, light snow cover and brisk. I probably could have gone faster.

I don't recall passing any speed limit signs...

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by codeman671

We hit 105 in my winter airboat on GPS between Diamond and Welch a few years back when I had it. The conditions were perfect, smooth, light snow cover and brisk. I probably could have gone faster.

I don't recall passing any speed limit signs...

very impressive!..

careful you don't hit open water and skim.. then it would be an issue

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

very impressive!..

careful you don't hit open water and skim.. then it would be an issue

That boat was made for it. It could transition from ice to water and back without skipping a beat. It wasn't a flat bottom Florida style. Sunset bob has some good pics of it in his album.

Only one of the five passengers got killed in this high-speed crash...the other passengers were only injured. I bet it would have been a lot less tragic, or even avoided, had they been going 45;
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/200...t_crash_a.html

[DEJ]

Good point Hnut. There should be a law...

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by elchase

Only one of the five passengers got killed in this high-speed crash...the other passengers were only injured. I bet it would have been a lot less tragic, or even avoided, had they been going 45;
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/200...t_crash_a.html

I'm sure you read everything regarding the accident, and the outcome of not only the accident, but what came of it.

First, the NJPBC and Dave P worked through the problem with authorities to help with safety. Most powerboaters supported extra enforcement, which was passed. Additional enforcement was needed, especially given that the accident occurred in a NWZ. Yes, a NWZ, not prominent in media reports, nor mentioned in speed limit supporter discussions on the accident.

You see El, there are some great people out there that support safe boating, and live safely. They have no preset agenda, only common sense. If Winni had a Dave P to help out there, no question the lake would be far better off than with all the Winfabs nonsense.

You post these old accidents, many of which have been researched to death by some of the very people you vilify. They offer solutions that can definitely help all boaters, you do not.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by DEJ

I agree with you OCD, tolls on trails are in order!!!

Trolls on Trails?

Ooops you said Tolls on trails. I can see it now E-Z Pass for my sled!

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Trolls on Trails?

Ooops you said Tolls on trails. I can see it now E-Z Pass for my sled!

Careful. they may start timing you between tolls to figure your speed. LOL

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Careful. they may start timing you between tolls to figure your speed. LOL

I actually had that happen to me on the NY Turnpike back in 1979. I was driving a 440 6 Pack Challenger at 3 AM in the morning. It was 'wall to wall and treetop tall'. When I got off at the Lyons exit. The toll guy signal a trooper when he notice my times!

Discussion about tolls and snowmobiles should be taken to another thread. This thread in the Anti Speed Limit section is for speed limit talk only.
Let's talk about this accident that killed a 12 year old girl when the boat she was in was hit by another traveling at "a very fast rate of speed". Wonder if her chances for surviving would have more likely been increased or decreased if the boats were limited to 45?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2291795/posts

[DEJ]

I wonder why the NH Legislature did not think about tolls on snowmobile trails.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by DEJ

I wonder why the NH Legislature did not think about tolls on snowmobile trails.

give it time! LOL... they have to pass all these feel good speed limit laws first.. then we can move to banning sleds over a certain HP etc... Then the tolls will come.. God only knows what the boat and sled registration will be increased to by then.

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

feel good speed limit laws

Now we are getting back on topic.

Three killed in this one where "speed and proper lookout played crucial parts in the wreck". Wonder if the families of the dead would be amused by all this talk of tolls?; http://www.nwfdailynews.com/articles...t-srowson.html

[DEJ]

Give it time indeed.

[OCDACTIVE]

you know what was amazing with the EZ pass? When I towed to VA it picked up the trailer as well. I still could go through even with two extra axles. Any idea how it figures that out.

By the way the Tapanzee bridge WICKED expensive. I forgot the exact but it was like $5 a car / truck then $11.50 per axle! it was like $26 to go over it ONCE!

It's amazing that only one of the drivers was killed when these two boats collided at high speeds;
http://www.sanduskyregister.com/arti...ont/939482.txt

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by elchase

Now we are getting back on topic.

Three killed in this one where "speed and proper lookout played crucial parts in the wreck". Wonder if the families of the dead would be amused by all this talk of tolls?; http://www.nwfdailynews.com/articles...t-srowson.html

Come on el...how can this have any relevance? It happened in another state for gosh sakes. Was alcohol involved? You're such a fear monger!

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Come on el...how can this have any relevance? It happened in another state for gosh sakes. Was alcohol involved? You're such a fear monger!

TB,
You forgot to wink. Better hurry up and add it before they start quoting you and including you in their numbers.

[DEJ]

I agree Hnut, it is coming.

This guy killed his 25 yr old passenger by taking him for a boat ride that was a little too fast;
http://www.midwestboatparty.com/foru...ead.php?t=5594

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by elchase

This guy killed his 25 yr old passenger by taking him for a boat ride that was a little too fast;
http://www.midwestboatparty.com/foru...ead.php?t=5594

Funny, the article gives no data on the actual speed they were traveling.

"High rate of speed" seems a little bit open to interpretation, especially when we have seen from some posts here that there are people who think 30MPH is a "high rate of speed".

It is also impossible to determine if the operator of the boat would have felt compelled to adhere to a speed limit law had one existed in the first place.

Further, this incident seems to be entirely limited to the people on-board the vessel involved. While I'll admit this is speculation on my part, there is a high probability that they were all riding under their own free will. I personally do not believe that we need any laws that only protect us from ourselves, and that such laws are rarely ever observed by the people they are geared towards.

About the only relation this story has to Winnipesaukee is that there is water involved.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by elchase

This guy killed his 25 yr old passenger by taking him for a boat ride that was a little too fast;
http://www.midwestboatparty.com/foru...ead.php?t=5594

2005 - Missouri

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by elchase

TB,
You forgot to wink. Better hurry up and add it before they start quoting you and including you in their numbers.

Good point, and I've already noticed a thankyou for the post from an unlikely forum member, though it could be another case of TUI.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Good point, and I've already noticed a thankyou for the post from an unlikely forum member, though it could be another case of TUI.

That was me... Hey when your right your right.. I always give thanks when thanks is due..

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Come on el...how can this have any relevance? It happened in another state for gosh sakes. Was alcohol involved? You're such a fear monger!

I know he is being sarcastic but actually true. I haven't hit the button on TB yet.. Especially if he continues to have good posts like this.. Thanks

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

give it time! LOL... they have to pass all these feel good speed limit laws first.. then we can move to banning sleds over a certain HP etc... Then the tolls will come.. God only knows what the boat and sled registration will be increased to by then.

It's coming.... All it takes is one Representative who needs to get elected and loves to hear themselves talk. Then they champion a cause, such as the illustrious baseless SL law on Winni and whamo! Governing speed of snowmobiles is next I can feel it. Unfortunately they are sometimes noisy and they do go fast, and that scares people.

It's a big problem down under too;
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/con...8/s2232602.htm
Can you imagine that over 22 people were killed in high-speed boating accidents right in Sydney's harbor in just seven years? Amazing.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by elchase

It's a big problem down under too;
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/con...8/s2232602.htm
Can you imagine that over 22 people were killed in high-speed boating accidents right in Sydney's harbor in just seven years? Amazing.

I wonder how many people have been killed on their roadways in the same time period?

What are you getting at? Do you think that boating can be legislated down to a level where it is fully NERF'd?

[chmeeee]

Originally Posted by elchase

It's a big problem down under too;
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/con...8/s2232602.htm
Can you imagine that over 22 people were killed in high-speed boating accidents right in Sydney's harbor in just seven years? Amazing.

In those same seven years, 264,764 people were killed in car accidents in the US. (986 in New Hampshire) What's your point? That we should be careful when boating in Sydney Harbor?

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by chmeeee

In those same seven years, 264,764 people were killed in car accidents in the US. (986 in New Hampshire) What's your point? That we should be careful when boating in Sydney Harbor?

I wouldn't expect a intuitive response based on the logic.
And if you do get one, watch for the spin!

[sunset on the dock]

I've got to say, sounds like the same old refrain here...If alcohol was involved, speed has no bearing on the issue(but seriously, I don't want speed limits removed from our roads in NH just because a drunk might not obey them) and if the accident happened outside NH it couldn't possibly be relevant to NH. So the same goes for a SL on Winnipesaukee...so many people are happy to finally have a SL on the lake and don't want it removed just because "drunks don''t obey speed limits" (see my earlier post...drunks often obey speed limits to a fault and that's how they're picked up).

[onlywinni]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

so many people are happy to finally have a SL on the lake and don't want it removed

Please show us some statistics or a recent and relevant poll to support this..

I can show you one poll that is 75% against your statement above..



http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=8420


Maybe if you said a few of us who think the lake is ours and not everyones are happy...I would agree with that...

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

I've got to say, sounds like the same old refrain here...If alcohol was involved, speed has no bearing on the issue(but seriously, I don't want speed limits removed from our roads in NH just because a drunk might not obey them) and if the accident happened outside NH it couldn't possibly be relevant to NH. So the same goes for a SL on Winnipesaukee...so many people are happy to finally have a SL on the lake and don't want it removed just because "drunks don''t obey speed limits" (see my earlier post...drunks often obey speed limits to a fault and that's how they're picked up).

#1 - A drunk captain going 40MPH approacing from your port side.
#2 - Sober captain going 50MPH approacing from your port side.
You're the stand on vessel. Which situation would you rather encounter on the lake?


Here is some great weekend reading. USCG stats on BUI and rec boating. Couldn't find any USCG statistics on speed????

http://www.uscgboating.org/statistic...on_of_bui.aspx

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

It's coming.... All it takes is one Representative who needs to get elected and loves to hear themselves talk. Then they champion a cause, such as the illustrious baseless SL law on Winni and whamo! Governing speed of snowmobiles is next I can feel it. Unfortunately they are sometimes noisy and they do go fast, and that scares people.

Its the scaring rush we are looking for! Just can tramatize the deer!

[Yosemite Sam]

This is a question for all you go fast (GFB) or cigarette boat owner's who use their boat on Lake Winni:

IF the 45/25 speed limit law gets extended past the original two year time period, will you still use your GFB on Lake Winni anyway?

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

This is a question for all you go fast (GFB) or cigarette boat owner's who use their boat on Lake Winni:

IF the 45/25 speed limit law gets extended past the original two year time period, will you still use your GFB on Lake Winni anyway?

Absolutely. I love lake winni! I have been there for 30 years and I am not letting this turn me away.

Again this is not just about cigarette boats. There are many different types of watercraft that this effects. PWC, Bass Boats, GFB.... etc.

[Kracken]

Yosemite Sam,

Define GFB

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by Kracken

Yosemite Sam,

Define GFB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go-fast_boat

"The dance or go-fast boat or van witsen is a high performance boat of a characteristic design. Originally designed for offshore powerboat racing team by Donald Aronow, the fast, powerful boats became notorious as the drug smuggling boat of choice in many parts of the world starting in the 1980s. These boats were used at first to smuggle cigarettes into Canada and therefore derived their nickname as the "cigarette boat". A company was formed later and trademarked the actual name "cigarette" as the preferred sea vehicle among the elite."

OCDACTIVE has a typical low end GFB.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go-fast_boat

"The dance or go-fast boat or van witsen is a high performance boat of a characteristic design. Originally designed for offshore powerboat racing team by Donald Aronow, the fast, powerful boats became notorious as the drug smuggling boat of choice in many parts of the world starting in the 1980s. These boats were used at first to smuggle cigarettes into Canada and therefore derived their nickname as the "cigarette boat". A company was formed later and trademarked the actual name "cigarette" as the preferred sea vehicle among the elite."

OK. So Don Arronow have design boats for Magnum, Apache, Cigarette, Donzi, Formula and Eastern boats. The MP Enforcers are Eastern boats. So that means the MPs have GF boats. No wonder the Marine Patrol don't want the speed limits! They will have to buy new boats!

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go-fast_boat

"The dance or go-fast boat or van witsen is a high performance boat of a characteristic design. Originally designed for offshore powerboat racing team by Donald Aronow, the fast, powerful boats became notorious as the drug smuggling boat of choice in many parts of the world starting in the 1980s. These boats were used at first to smuggle cigarettes into Canada and therefore derived their nickname as the "cigarette boat". A company was formed later and trademarked the actual name "cigarette" as the preferred sea vehicle among the elite."

OCDACTIVE has a typical low end GFB.

Told my old man who is 85 years young that the SL supporters wants to ban his 23' Eastern center console because it is considered a GF boat (Aronow designed). I have never seen him so smoking in decades! That's the price he will have to pay for sitting on the fence all these years.

I can see it now. Babe Gagnon of Silver Sands is going to be very busy filling Fountain orders when everyone who owns Aronow designed boats trade in. Fountains are designed by Reggie and not considered GFBL.

[hazelnut]

Posts 294 and 296 in this thread are by far the absolute best posts I have ever seen to date on this subject. I urge every single supporter and those who oppose the law to read them and then re-read them again. Kracken and OCDACTIVE have summed up in few words, without embellishment, many people's feelings.

I can't tell the readers of the forum this next point enough, because most here try to paint us all the same. I am not a Fast Boat owner nor will I ever own one. I am a bowrider guy. I have to say this and I will continue to say this. My boat barely does 49 MPH.

I am truly an individual that opposes legislation to protect us from ourselves. I oppose lawmakers who arbitrarily use their power to push an agenda with no merit. Laws created out of thin air that are not warranted are dangerous to our freedoms. It becomes way too easy for your government to nickle and dime your freedoms away. Wake up, this is one more law created by lawmakers with little to no facts to support it. They tried to "show us all" with the test sites, FAIL. Now the law is enacted and once again they have FAILED to show good reason why it should remain.

Keep this in mind the few supporters on this site that use statements like "seems quieter" and "less scary" "it was less chaotic" are using circumstantial, subjective reasoning in support of this law. This should scare the heck out of everyone in this debate. If we can legislate on feelings then we should all be very afraid. This is not what this country was founded on.

Kracken and OCD well stated and I hope a few people on this site realize now that this is not a case of a bunch of Cowboys looking to drive as fast as they want whenever they want. I can't stress this enough. They want to paint us all as reckless cowboys but it just isn't the truth. My boating has not changed at all. I still drive 30-35MPH and my boat only goes 45MPH on average with a half tank and a few passengers. To get my boat to go 50MPH I have to be alone with a quarter tank and a tailwind.

Lemmings we are not. Question the reasoning behind every single piece of legislation. This is a classic example. We are all united by one simple fact. We enjoy recreation on the lake that we all love so much. Your activity could very well be next. Why would it be so crazy to think that Kayakers could be targeted next, or sail-boaters, fishermen, I could think of any number of laws that could be targeted against you. I'll give you an example. Wasn't there a piece of legislation that was proposed to make swimmers wear silly orange caps? Imagine that? A LAW requiring you to wear a swim cap. Don't you think a law could just as easily be proposed prohibiting kayakers from using the broads? I mean it "seems scary" to be kayaking in the broads. What with all that wind and deep water? You could easily drown out there in a windstorm. It would "seem safer" if you kayaked closer to shore.

Of course personally I do not think there should be a law prohibiting kayakers from using any part of the lake. But I'm not the one proposing silly laws though.

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Kracken and OCD well stated and I hope a few people on this site realize now that this is not a case of a bunch of Cowboys looking to drive as fast as they want whenever they want. I can't stress this enough. They want to paint us all as reckless cowboys but it just isn't the truth.

So I guess what OCDACTIVE was saying on another thread about how fast his GFB could go and showing the instruments on his boat going 86 MPH was just a game he is playing. He also said many more things that pertain to speed on Lake Winni.

Just tell me when you are serious and when you are kidding and then maybe we can have some worthwhile discussion.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Trolls on Trails?

Ooops you said Tolls on trails. I can see it now E-Z Pass for my sled!

That is what the ignore button is for... Sorry not the tolls.. you get in trouble for running those..