new $750,000 Meredith fire truck

fatlazyless · 11-22-2009, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argie's Wife

I hear that taxes are higher in VT....

So, a high tax Vermont fire dept purchases a 20-year old, $20,000 ladder truck from Laconia, and low tax Laconia purchases a new 2009 $850,000, 100' aerial tower. And, from where does low tax Laconia get all that $850,000?

One could easily assume it would be the other way around, with Vermont buying new, what with their high Vermont taxes. So, how can NH be a low tax state if it can afford to buy new for $850,000?

Beyond my huffing & puffing here....I still say...the 18000 population of Laconia would be better served if the town kept the old truck and used the $850,000 for dental cleaning & check-ups and oral health paid out to local dentists and oral hygienists. More Laconians would benefit from that than from a new truck.

And, do the Laconia firefighters already get dental insurance as part of their pay package?

Janet · 11-22-2009, 08:12 AM

Time to end this thread!?

Seeker · 11-24-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janet

Time to end this thread!?

I'll second that one!

twoplustwo · 11-22-2009, 08:19 AM

One could easily assume it would be the other way around, with Vermont buying new, what with their high Vermont taxes. So, how can NH be a low tax state if it can afford to buy new for $850,000?

I think Scubajay has done a phenomenal job of explaining why equipment like this is needed, how safety requirements change, and how little of an impact an expense like this has on your overall taxes. Rather than accept his information, you sit and pick at the subject like a scab on your knee with lame, baseless arguments. You're relentless. It's exhausting to read and demeaning to all local FDs trying to save lives.

Until you have the statistics of both towns so you can compare income and expense information, you're comparing apples and oranges. If you have such an intense need to find out why equipment like this is necessary, why don't you use some of your free time and go volunteer for the Meredith FD? You can also consider a run for selectman, so you have more input into Meredith spending.

Janet · 11-22-2009, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoplustwo

One could easily assume it would be the other way around, with Vermont buying new, what with their high Vermont taxes. So, how can NH be a low tax state if it can afford to buy new for $850,000?

I think Scubajay has done a phenomenal job of explaining why equipment like this is needed, how safety requirements change, and how little of an impact an expense like this has on your overall taxes. Rather than accept his information, you sit and pick at the subject like a scab on your knee with lame, baseless arguments. You're relentless. It's exhausting to read and demeaning to all local FDs trying to save lives.

Until you have the statistics of both towns so you can compare income and expense information, you're comparing apples and oranges. If you have such an intense need to find out why equipment like this is necessary, why don't you use some of your free time and go volunteer for the Meredith FD? You can also consider a run for selectman, so you have more input into Meredith spending.

Well said twoplustwo

Yosemite Sam · 11-22-2009, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoplustwo

If you have such an intense need to find out why equipment like this is necessary, why don't you use some of your free time and go volunteer for the Meredith FD? You can also consider a run for selectman, so you have more input into Meredith spending.

I'll second that motion!

fatlazyless · 11-22-2009, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

And, do the Laconia firefighters already get dental insurance as part of their pay package?

...ok...so I'll answer my question......yes, the Laconia firefighters do indeed get dental coverage as it is a full-time fire dept as opposed to an on-call dept in Meredith.

And, while the 5 Meredith selectmen's position is considered to be a part time volunteer position, it does include a health and dental insurance policy.

If you are a Laconia or Meredith property tax payer, then you know very well if you have health & dental for yourself, while at the same time your property taxes are paying the health & dental for the town employees such as police, fire, town, school, & selectmen.

....and where is the thankyou coming from them?

Yosemite Sam · 11-22-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

And, while the 5 Meredith selectmen's position is considered to be a part time volunteer position, it does include a health and dental insurance policy.

They do?

scubajay1153 · 11-22-2009, 11:32 AM

Another BOLD LIE by FLL!

I won't bite to hard......because I DO NOT HAVE DENTAL and can't pay for the damage it will do to my mouth. The FF's and Police in the City DO NOT HAVE DENTAL because the City REFUSES to entertain the thought of offering it to us. We continue to ask, they continue deny. Period.

Heaven · 11-22-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

...ok...so I'll answer my question......yes, the Laconia firefighters do indeed get dental coverage as it is a full-time fire dept as opposed to an on-call dept in Meredith.

And, while the 5 Meredith selectmen's position is considered to be a part time volunteer position, it does include a health and dental insurance policy.

If you are a Laconia or Meredith property tax payer, then you know very well if you have health & dental for yourself, while at the same time your property taxes are paying the health & dental for the town employees such as police, fire, town, school, & selectmen.

....and where is the thankyou coming from them?

Thank you for paying me to do my job. I endeavor to do the best possible job for you, the citizens of my town, for as long as I am in your employ.

Kamper · 11-23-2009, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

...ok...so I'll answer my question...... ...

....and where is the thankyou coming from them?

Are you for or against proper insurance for municipal employees? My boss thanks ME for my efforts when I get my check. Only a rat of an employer would fail to arrange some type of health insurance for employees who work a significant number of hours.

Are you for or against that fire truck? The new fire station?

I'm losing track of your positions due to jumping around on the various topics you've introduced in this thread, plus the opinions and counter-opinions you've expressed not only on other members' but on your own previous posts here. Would you be so kind as to say "I am for/against this." so all readers know what you are trying to say?

Thank you in advance for your consideration!

fatlazyless · 11-23-2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamper

Are you for or against that fire truck?

Here's one for people to consider. While high tax Vermont makes do with a second hand, 20 year old, $20,000 ladder truck purchased from Laconia, low tax Laconia purchases a new $850,000 ladder truck.

So, what does this tell you?

So, who is really low tax, and who is really high tax: Vermont or New Hampshire?

Kamper · 11-23-2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

... (Evasion, evasion, evasion) ...

Yeah. That's what I thought you'd say.

Have a nice day!

jmen24 · 11-23-2009, 10:08 AM

FLL, I will tell you what I know from my wife, who although was born in Maine, spend her school life in Vermont and transfered to a NH school in high school. That even though Vermont does have higher taxes, they put a considerable margin of those tax dollars into their school systems. Their schools are far superior to what is offered at most schools in NH that are twice the size of the ones in VT.

When she transfered into her final school in NH she had enough credits to graduate a year early without having to double up on courses.

FLL, does this town in VT have a name so that we can compare the population base against Laconia, not that it matters, but it might enlighten you on how they choose to spend their dollars.

4 for Boating · 11-23-2009, 11:16 AM

Just to toss my two cents in and to make my position clear on the truck, if the fire or police departments need something then I’m all for it if done in a proper purchasing/bid manner. Having said that and given the fact that Meredith may have needed these things in order to assure the people that help protect and respond to the community are in the best position to help, can someone tell me why given the need for these expensive purchases (New Police Station/Re-Furbished Fire Station/New Fire Truck >> Totaling over $4.5M In town floated bonds) would we need to have an additional $3.5M community center?

Don’t get me wrong, it is certainly nice to have but with all the other necessary expenses and a rising tax rate, why would a fiscally responsible team approve/proceed with this?

NoRegrets · 11-23-2009, 11:49 AM

The tax burden for each state can be found in the attached chart. Vermont ranked 7th highest, Mass was # 8 and New Hampshire is # 47. I like the fact that NH has a small government and support keeping limits on it. The converse is poor Massachusets. The are # 8 and trying to be #1. I believe that is why now support so many refugees from the south.
Even if some of the facts seem suspect I do enjoy FLL's postings as they challenge us to read and research.
750 K does seem like a lot of money for a truck. I am not qualified to judge the ROI but I do hope that it is never used for it's intended purpose.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/eco...den-per-capita

Argie's Wife · 11-23-2009, 11:28 AM

Attached to this post is the 2008 tax burden by state.

VT is 8th and NH is 46th on the list for tax burden.

VT is 22nd and NH is 10th on the list for income per capita.

FLL - you're welcome to explore the cost per pupil, social programs, and other expenditures that VT has vs. what NH spends on. They raise more money and spend more money, is the short of it. Perhaps the $20K engine was purchased because it wasn't well planned for, but that's just an assumption...

fatlazyless · 11-22-2009, 08:40 PM

Hi ScubaJay....you obviously know about the specifics of your job so I owe you an apology for suggesting Laconia gives you dental insurance coverage.

As far as the Meredith Selectmen, I base that on what I read in the Laconia Daily Sun from aproximately Sept 2008. As I recall, the five selectmen, according to the LaDaSun were discussing ways to keep costs down, and someone, probably Chairman Peter Brothers was reported to have looked around at all four other selectmen and say something like "I believe this will be the best that we can do unless you will agree to all give up your health insurance benefits. Looking around the room, no one raised their hand, and the discussion moved on." (a paraphrase from memory)

I'm looking around in the LaDaSun search engine, and will get back with the exact quote. But, that piece of info struck a chord (boing!) in my brain and stayed with me.

Again, ScubaJay....sorry for the false info on my part....nothing personal....your work is appreciated....especially when it's a real fire like at my own house, and not just a false alarm somewhere else! fll

tis · 11-23-2009, 07:35 AM

The selectmen in Wolfeboro get health insurance too.

fatlazyless · 11-30-2009, 10:11 PM

Meredith ladder truck dented but no serious damage done

MEREDITH - The Fire Department's new ladder truck was damaged when it was backed into one of the bollards (posts) astride the doors of the apparatus bay of the new stationhouse on November 11.

Selectman Chuck Palm, the former fire chief, said Friday that the extent of the damage was limited to dents in the rear bumper and rear quarter panel. "The damage had no affect on the operation of the truck," he said. The truck he stressed was fully insured and arrangements for its repair have been made.

The town purchased the new truck, which was commissioned on November 5, for $760,000.

Laconia Daily Sun, Nov 30
.......
Surprize Pop Quiz

1. With their new 100' aerial tower truck, how many Laconia firefighters does it take to remove and replace a Christmas tree lightbulb?

2. With their new 100' aerial tower truck, how many Meredith firefighters does it take to remove and replace a Christmas tree lightbulb?

3. If the Lakes Region Mutual Fire Aid tones out a call to replace a burnt-out Christmas tree lightbulb in New Hampton, then which neighboring fire department, Meredith or Laconia, is most likely to get to the lightbulb first, and why?

4. When the fire department arrives at the scene of the burnt out Christmas tree lightbulb, how will they detemine which specific lightbulb is burnt out?

5. The State of New Hampshire has how many different towns and cities?

6. The combined total of all the cities and towns in New Hampshire have a total of how many different 100' aerial tower trucks?

7. While the State of NH purchases fire trucks on a town by town, have money, basis: Which nearby new england state purchases fire trucks on a regional basis and why?

8. When it is your house that is burning, do you hope a fire truck will show up quickly and put the fire out?

9. Or, do you hope that the fire will continue to burn so your house will be considered a total loss by your insurance company?

10. Would you encourage your local Laconia or Meredith Fire Dept to adopt a dalmation firehouse dog?

11. (special bonus question) How about a beer guzzl'n basset hound, that likes Pabst Blue Ribbon, for a firehouse buddy........aaaarrrrrrrroooooo........!

Happy Gourmand · 12-01-2009, 08:04 AM

You are like a dog who bites you in the ass and won't let go....
I have to say that I usually get a chuckle out of many of your comments, but I also have to say that I find that many of your references regarding the new ladder truck to be misinformed, condescending and downright disrespectful. I think it's time for you to throw the towel in on this issue. The ladder truck is in place and there is nothing constructive that you can do about it. Your rants are becoming obnoxious.

twoplustwo · 12-01-2009, 01:48 PM

Thank you, Phantom. I couldn't agree more.

Janet · 12-01-2009, 05:39 PM

I totally agree!

fatlazyless · 12-01-2009, 07:40 PM

....okey-dokey....methinks I get the message......think I will go slink off to that NH Animal Rescue League for Meredith on the Centre Meredith Rd, close to Laconia, and go shop for an adopted beer guzzl'n basset hound for a new buddy. You know, we'll be able to cry in our beer together.....misery luvs company......

Isn't caring for a dog what seems to work at rehabilitat'n long term inmates in some of the prisons?

& aarrrrooooo's to you, too!......................

Pineedles · 12-01-2009, 07:46 PM

You are an amazing soul!

11-22-2009, 08:19 AM	#4
twoplustwo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 456 Thanks: 51 Thanked 39 Times in 21 Posts	I'm not sure why I'm doing this... One could easily assume it would be the other way around, with Vermont buying new, what with their high Vermont taxes. So, how can NH be a low tax state if it can afford to buy new for $850,000? I think Scubajay has done a phenomenal job of explaining why equipment like this is needed, how safety requirements change, and how little of an impact an expense like this has on your overall taxes. Rather than accept his information, you sit and pick at the subject like a scab on your knee with lame, baseless arguments. You're relentless. It's exhausting to read and demeaning to all local FDs trying to save lives. Until you have the statistics of both towns so you can compare income and expense information, you're comparing apples and oranges. If you have such an intense need to find out why equipment like this is necessary, why don't you use some of your free time and go volunteer for the Meredith FD? You can also consider a run for selectman, so you have more input into Meredith spending.

11-22-2009, 11:32 AM	#9
scubajay1153 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Gilford Posts: 93 Thanks: 2 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	I do? Another BOLD LIE by FLL! I won't bite to hard......because I DO NOT HAVE DENTAL and can't pay for the damage it will do to my mouth. The FF's and Police in the City DO NOT HAVE DENTAL because the City REFUSES to entertain the thought of offering it to us. We continue to ask, they continue deny. Period.

11-23-2009, 11:16 AM	#15
4 for Boating Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 224 Thanks: 1 Thanked 38 Times in 26 Posts	The Big Picture Just to toss my two cents in and to make my position clear on the truck, if the fire or police departments need something then I’m all for it if done in a proper purchasing/bid manner. Having said that and given the fact that Meredith may have needed these things in order to assure the people that help protect and respond to the community are in the best position to help, can someone tell me why given the need for these expensive purchases (New Police Station/Re-Furbished Fire Station/New Fire Truck >> Totaling over $4.5M In town floated bonds) would we need to have an additional $3.5M community center? Don’t get me wrong, it is certainly nice to have but with all the other necessary expenses and a rising tax rate, why would a fiscally responsible team approve/proceed with this?

11-22-2009, 08:40 PM	#18
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,755 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,010 Times in 736 Posts	Hi ScubaJay....you obviously know about the specifics of your job so I owe you an apology for suggesting Laconia gives you dental insurance coverage. As far as the Meredith Selectmen, I base that on what I read in the Laconia Daily Sun from aproximately Sept 2008. As I recall, the five selectmen, according to the LaDaSun were discussing ways to keep costs down, and someone, probably Chairman Peter Brothers was reported to have looked around at all four other selectmen and say something like "I believe this will be the best that we can do unless you will agree to all give up your health insurance benefits. Looking around the room, no one raised their hand, and the discussion moved on." (a paraphrase from memory) I'm looking around in the LaDaSun search engine, and will get back with the exact quote. But, that piece of info struck a chord (boing!) in my brain and stayed with me. Again, ScubaJay....sorry for the false info on my part....nothing personal....your work is appreciated....especially when it's a real fire like at my own house, and not just a false alarm somewhere else! fll __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 11-22-2009 at 09:39 PM.

11-30-2009, 10:11 PM	#20
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,755 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,010 Times in 736 Posts	...dented but not serious... Meredith ladder truck dented but no serious damage done MEREDITH - The Fire Department's new ladder truck was damaged when it was backed into one of the bollards (posts) astride the doors of the apparatus bay of the new stationhouse on November 11. Selectman Chuck Palm, the former fire chief, said Friday that the extent of the damage was limited to dents in the rear bumper and rear quarter panel. "The damage had no affect on the operation of the truck," he said. The truck he stressed was fully insured and arrangements for its repair have been made. The town purchased the new truck, which was commissioned on November 5, for $760,000. Laconia Daily Sun, Nov 30 ....... Surprize Pop Quiz 1. With their new 100' aerial tower truck, how many Laconia firefighters does it take to remove and replace a Christmas tree lightbulb? 2. With their new 100' aerial tower truck, how many Meredith firefighters does it take to remove and replace a Christmas tree lightbulb? 3. If the Lakes Region Mutual Fire Aid tones out a call to replace a burnt-out Christmas tree lightbulb in New Hampton, then which neighboring fire department, Meredith or Laconia, is most likely to get to the lightbulb first, and why? 4. When the fire department arrives at the scene of the burnt out Christmas tree lightbulb, how will they detemine which specific lightbulb is burnt out? 5. The State of New Hampshire has how many different towns and cities? 6. The combined total of all the cities and towns in New Hampshire have a total of how many different 100' aerial tower trucks? 7. While the State of NH purchases fire trucks on a town by town, have money, basis: Which nearby new england state purchases fire trucks on a regional basis and why? 8. When it is your house that is burning, do you hope a fire truck will show up quickly and put the fire out? 9. Or, do you hope that the fire will continue to burn so your house will be considered a total loss by your insurance company? 10. Would you encourage your local Laconia or Meredith Fire Dept to adopt a dalmation firehouse dog? 11. (special bonus question) How about a beer guzzl'n basset hound, that likes Pabst Blue Ribbon, for a firehouse buddy........aaaarrrrrrrroooooo........! __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 12-01-2009 at 08:14 AM.

11-22-2009, 08:12 AM	#2
Janet Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 470 Thanks: 233 Thanked 134 Times in 91 Posts	Time to end this thread!?

11-23-2009, 10:08 AM	#14
jmen24 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,139 Thanks: 223 Thanked 319 Times in 181 Posts	FLL, I will tell you what I know from my wife, who although was born in Maine, spend her school life in Vermont and transfered to a NH school in high school. That even though Vermont does have higher taxes, they put a considerable margin of those tax dollars into their school systems. Their schools are far superior to what is offered at most schools in NH that are twice the size of the ones in VT. When she transfered into her final school in NH she had enough credits to graduate a year early without having to double up on courses. FLL, does this town in VT have a name so that we can compare the population base against Laconia, not that it matters, but it might enlighten you on how they choose to spend their dollars.

11-23-2009, 11:49 AM	#16
NoRegrets Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hudson - NH Posts: 408 Thanks: 233 Thanked 212 Times in 88 Posts	The tax burden for each state can be found in the attached chart. Vermont ranked 7th highest, Mass was # 8 and New Hampshire is # 47. I like the fact that NH has a small government and support keeping limits on it. The converse is poor Massachusets. The are # 8 and trying to be #1. I believe that is why now support so many refugees from the south. Even if some of the facts seem suspect I do enjoy FLL's postings as they challenge us to read and research. 750 K does seem like a lot of money for a truck. I am not qualified to judge the ROI but I do hope that it is never used for it's intended purpose. http://www.statemaster.com/graph/eco...den-per-capita

11-23-2009, 07:35 AM	#19
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,730 Thanks: 752 Thanked 1,457 Times in 1,014 Posts	The selectmen in Wolfeboro get health insurance too.

12-01-2009, 08:04 AM	#21
Happy Gourmand Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Ruskin FL Posts: 1,027 Thanks: 188 Thanked 322 Times in 179 Posts	Fll You are like a dog who bites you in the ass and won't let go.... I have to say that I usually get a chuckle out of many of your comments, but I also have to say that I find that many of your references regarding the new ladder truck to be misinformed, condescending and downright disrespectful. I think it's time for you to throw the towel in on this issue. The ladder truck is in place and there is nothing constructive that you can do about it. Your rants are becoming obnoxious.

12-01-2009, 01:48 PM	#22
twoplustwo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 456 Thanks: 51 Thanked 39 Times in 21 Posts	the thanks button is MIA Thank you, Phantom. I couldn't agree more.

12-01-2009, 05:39 PM	#23
Janet Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 470 Thanks: 233 Thanked 134 Times in 91 Posts	I totally agree!

12-01-2009, 07:40 PM	#24
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,755 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,010 Times in 736 Posts	....okey-dokey....methinks I get the message......think I will go slink off to that NH Animal Rescue League for Meredith on the Centre Meredith Rd, close to Laconia, and go shop for an adopted beer guzzl'n basset hound for a new buddy. You know, we'll be able to cry in our beer together.....misery luvs company...... Isn't caring for a dog what seems to work at rehabilitat'n long term inmates in some of the prisons? & aarrrrooooo's to you, too!...................... __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 12-01-2009 at 10:47 PM.

12-01-2009, 07:46 PM	#25
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,545 Thanks: 1,072 Thanked 668 Times in 367 Posts	You are an amazing soul!