65 Years Ago - Dec. 22, 1939

[mcdude]

CLICK HERE for enlarged version of photo

[WeirsBeachBoater]

I will have an answer by tomorrow evening! Otherwise this question will drive me crazy.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Looking at mcdude's "real photo", does anyone else think they see the mystery drum in the leftmost, lower opening (just behind the person going up the ramp) in the building in front of the Mount ?

[WeirsBeachBoater]

Spoke with Dr. Heald today, and he and I agree that the tank must have been in the lower floor of the station. Neither one of us knows what it was for. Could it possibly have been a containment tank for septic systems? I assume they used to pump of the old Mount at the Weirs. Possibly this was a holding tank for either the Mount or the Train Station??? If some one had the floor plan of the RR station it might help solve this mystery.

[Misty Blue]

Mee-N Mac must be an engineer.

As stated the fact that the boiler has stoker grates and an ash removal system leaves out the possibility of fuel oil of any kind. Without any forced combustion air (there are no fans in these, very complete plans) fuel oil could not burn. Whats more when this engine was built fuel oil was unavailable. That leaves us with wood or coal.

Coal sounds like a good choice. Remember, the Mount was owned by a rail road company. They would have easy access to coal and rail transportation would have been cheap and easy. My problem with coal is where did they store the it?

When the Mount was built, help me with this one RIG, I don't think that the RR went to Wiers. That would only leave Alton for coal bunkers. I can not remember ever seeing pictures of coal bunkers either at Alton or Wiers.

Wood was available, cheap and could be picked up at various locations around the Lake. They could have picked it up in small lots during stops eliminating the need for large bunkers on board.

I once read that one of the main commodities shipped by the horseboats was wood fuel for the steamers. This wood came from islands like Stonedam.

At a guess I would say that wood is the best choice for fuels.

As for the tank on the pier. What ever the contents, if it was flamable it would have burned. It is probably quality water for for boiler feed. They may have used lake water for boiler make up in the early days but no engineer would allow unfiltered, untested feed water to enter his boiler in the 1930s.

Yup. I go for wood furnace and water for the tank.

By the way. Rig you are too much! I loved the drawing of the walking beam engine!

Misty.

[Island Girl]

I love the topic. I did not realize I was born on the anniversary of the burning of the Mount.

[Rose]

Happy Belated Birthday, Island Girl. Hope everything is well with you in Central Mass.

And Happy Holidays to all on the forum.

Rose

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Originally Posted by Misty Blue

As stated the fact that the boiler has stoker grates and an ash removal system leaves out the possibility of fuel oil of any kind. Without any forced combustion air (there are no fans in these, very complete plans) fuel oil could not burn. Whats more when this engine was built fuel oil was unavailable. That leaves us with wood or coal.

Does anyone know if it was possible to use either wood or coal in the same boiler?

Originally Posted by Misty Blue

When the Mount was built, help me with this one RIG, I don't think that the RR went to Wiers. That would only leave Alton for coal bunkers. I can not remember ever seeing pictures of coal bunkers either at Alton or Wiers.

The railroad made it to Laconia before Alton Bay.
Now that you mention the trains, coal could have been easily used because of them. Can we tell from these old photos whether it was coal or wood being burned? Isn’t coal smoke very black? There are many shots of the piers with wood, but that doesn't rule out coal.








On August 8, 1848, the Boston, Concord & Montreal Railroad between Concord and Meredith Bridge (Laconia) opened. The following year, the road was extended to Lake Village (Lakeport).
In 1839 a charter was granted to the Dover & Winnipesaukee Railroad to build tracks from Dover to Alton Bay, a total of 29 miles. This charter lapsed, but eight years later another was granted under the name of Cocheco Railroad. By 1848 the tracks had been laid as far as Farmington and a year later were completed to Alton Bay.
In 1847 a charter was granted to build the Lake Shore Railroad between Laconia and Alton Bay. This 18-mile road was established to connect the Cocheco road & the Boston, Concord & Montreal Railroad. Due to lack of finances, the construction was postponed for over 40 years, leaving the original charter to expire. Finally, 1883, the charter was granted to Charles Busiel and his associates. The line was finally constructed by the Concord Railroad Corporation and the Lake Shore Line officially opened in Laconia on June 17, 1890, connecting Alton Bay to Lakeport.

The Mount Washington made her first trip on July 4, 1872, with Alton Bay, Meredith, Center Harbor, Long Island and Wolfeboro on her schedule of ports.

[Senter Cove Guy]

FAMOUS OLD LAKE SIDEWHEELER CREMATED AT THE WEIRS WHARF

LOSS OF $200,000

Railroad Station, Dock, Seaplane, Trainshed, Boardwalk Burned

LAVALLEE OVERCOME

State And Regional Officials Meet With Owners To Plan Rehabilitation

The “Mount Washington”, famous old sidewheeler known throughout the country by visitors to New Hampshire, was completely destroyed by fire Friday night, December 22, at The Weirs, where it was laid up for the winter. The fire apparently started in the Boston & Maine station, and was carried by a northeast wind down the “Mount Washington” dock and into the steamer itself, leaving the boat a skeleton of twisted steel.

The walking beam which so many of us as children watched with fascination, lay across the twisted remains of one of the old paddle wheels. About six feet of the bowsprit remained. A strange fact is that although the boat was virtually consumed to the waterline, it still remained afloat. It took considerable imagination to picture the remains as having been a boat.

Fire started shortly before 8:30 and was discovered by Leon Horne who was attending a grange meeting. He called fire and gave the alarm to Fireman Henry Allard. He notified the Laconia department and a general alarm was sounded.

Fire Chief Arthur W. Spring said that the fire started from a stove in the building. He is still investigating and has not given out a formal statement as to the cause this noon.

Horne in Charge

Archie Macomber, who has been the station agent for 27 and a half years attended the funeral of his brother-in-law in Craftsbury, Vt., yesterday and was on his way home during the fire, arriving at 9:50. He left Leon Horne in charge of the station. Leon told him, he said, that there was no fire in the passenger station waiting room as it went out and he didn’t bother to rebuild it.

Mr. Macomber said he believed that the fire started in the basement, probably in the workshop in which Capt. Lavallee and Engineer Fred Dearborn had been working during the day.

The B. & M.’s loss includes baggage trucks and equipment. The little money in the station was locked away in the safe which must be in the ruins. Mr. Macomber lost his adding machine and typewriter.

He said he thought the station was 50 years old. This morning a combination baggage and mail car arrived to be used as a temporary ticket, baggage and mail office.

Train Flagged

The southbound milk train was flagged to a stop above the fire by Police Chief Hubbard and after more than a half hour wait was switched over to another track and allowed to chug slowly past.

The fire lit the sky and could be seen for many miles. “Sparks” clogged traffic on the Boulevard and White Oaks and youngsters were seen in Lakeport thumbing rides to the fire. Special Police Officer Ted Dagenais directed traffic at the foot of the hill and the junction of The Weirs main street. Police Chief George N. Hubbard and Deputy Chief Charles E. Dunleavy were on duty also.

Fortunate it was in one way that the wind was blowing briskly from the northwest keeping the flames and sparks away from Irwin’s Winnipesaukee Gardens only a couple hundred feet from the blazing Mount and railroad station and the campground would have gone.

All but one piece of apparatus from the Laconia and Lakeport stations aided the Weirs firemen. About five thousand feet of hose was laid in eight lines but there was not a stream that could reach the flaming boat. Firemen concentrated on putting out the burning board walk and wetting down the Irwin’s Gardens. They were unable to get to the lake to pump water.

Motorists had to walk in some cases more than a mile from where they parked their cars. Cars were left as far away as Mrs. Lillian B. Carroll’s home on The Boulevard, on the hills on both sides of the bridges and Tower Hill and adjoining streets that overlook The Weirs bay. Because of the biting wind and low temperature somewhere in the vicinity of 20 motorists who were able to get their cars close enough to see the fire stayed inside and kept their heaters running.

Built in 1872

The Mount Washington, known from coast to coast as the fastest sidewheeler in inland U. S. Waters was built by Sylvanus Smith, an ancestor of Mrs. Lyford Merrow of Ctr. Ossipee, and launched in Alton Bay in 1872. Since then it has plied the waters of Lake Winnipesaukee every year. In 1896-97 it was repaired and replanked at a cost of $42,000. The original cost of building the boat was $64,000. Again in 1914 it was repaired at a cost of $11,093. The next time the boat was out of the water was in 1925 for more repairs by order of the Public Service Commission. In the fall of ’37 the 700 ton boat was drydocked at Center Harbor and after a winter of hardships and disappointments the boat was replanked and put back into the water. Capt Lavallee was given a magnificent welcome home to The Weirs in May, 1938.

Former owners of the boat are Capt. Herbert A Blackstone who was skipper for 15 years, the Boston and Maine Railroad which sold it in 1922 for $3,000 to Captain Lavallee, Sidney Baker of Tremont street who resold it to Capt. Lavallee after running it one season.

Capt. Blackstone often said that the Mount was built as heavy as many boats that go to sea.

The new owners James and George Carroll who purchased the Mount on Sept. 15 from Capt. Lavallee were planning repairs this winter so the boat was anchored at The Weirs wharf instead of in the channel where the ice does not freeze.

The Carroll brothers had already started to figure out how they would keep the boat free from ice by chopping it away as it froze.

The Boston & Maine will probably replace the huge railroad station of the type of the ‘70’s and ‘80’s with a smaller station of modern trend and it is doubtful whether or not the long trainshed which sheltered huge crowds during storms will be rebuilt.

Fred Dearborn, engineer of the boat, tried hard to reach it to take it away from the wharf but was unable to penetrate the roaring furnace.

There was an unusual thing about the fire in that most of it was below the level of the firemen and those close to the scene so that waves of heat came.

Watching the “Mount” go proudly in the flames at its dock was the Grand Old Skipper of Lake Winnipesaukee, Capt. Leander Lavallee. He stood on the brow of the hill across from Tarlson’s store when the oil tank on the old sidewheeler exploded. Previously he had collapsed in front of his home at The Weirs when he realized what was happening. He said he was subject to angina.

He had sold the boat last September to George Carroll and James Carroll, sons of Postmaster M. J. Carroll, who estimated the loss at $100,000, partially covered by insurance.

“It’s a great loss to all this region,” the captain explained. He spoke of the strong steel holding the framework of the boat and sure enough the silhouette remained through all the seething flame.

Early on the scene at The Weirs Saturday morning, when the fire ruins still hot, could be seen by daylight, Captain Lavallee said, “If I were 30 years younger, I’d start building a new Mount.”

The Weirs fire department called it quits Saturday morning at 7:30 after being all night on the job wetting down the ruins. On the job were Capt. George Wesley Tarlson, Will Lloyd, Henry Allard, Bryan Avery, Fred H Dearborn, Leon Horne, Harvey Smith, W. H. Cole, Hollis Cole, Elmer Davis was working on the railroad.

Secretary Harold Hart of the Lakes Region association and Ed Coughlin of Ossipee were on their way to Laconia Saturday afternoon for a conference with James R. Irwin and others, relative to plans for “facelifting” at The Weirs, to remove scars of last night’s fire.

The Lakes Region Association takes the stand that the loss at The Weirs is not exclusively Laconia loss, but a disaster that affects the entire region, and therefore the region should cooperate in the task of rehabilitation. A meeting of prominent people to get plans under way included Mayor Robinson W. Smith of Laconia, who is acting as chairman; ex-Mayor Edward J. Gallagher, Fred Clark of the State Planning and Development Commission, Lawrence F. Whittemore of the Boston and Maine Railroad, Capt. Leander Lavallee, Postmaster Michael J. Carroll and his sons, James and George Carroll, and others.

[glennsteely]

Is your signature on your posts a quote from George Carlin? I saw act from him on comedy central the other day and he finished it with that saying......just wondering if it is his original work or did he get it from somewhere else....(like the forum) GS

[Rattlesnake Gal]

I found this saying in a catalog and thought it was well suited. Maybe they stole it from George?
Pyramid Collection Catalog
Item #: P23685

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Originally Posted by Senter Cove Guy

From The Granite State News, December 29, 1939

This is very interesting! It is the first time that the stories of the demise of the Mount Washington do not concur. We will definitely need to look into this further. Thanks Senter Cove Guy for sharing this with us.

Originally Posted by Senter Cove Guy

Watching the “Mount” go proudly in the flames at its dock was the Grand Old Skipper of Lake Winnipesaukee, Capt. Leander Lavallee. He stood on the brow of the hill across from Tarlson’s store when the oil tank on the old sidewheeler exploded.

Is it possible, given the time frame in history, could she have been changed over to run on oil verses wood or coal?

[JacksonB]

Could the oil tank have been a small one used to store oil for a stove? Did they cook on the old Mount?

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Originally Posted by glennsteely

Is your signature on your posts a quote from George Carlin? I saw act from him on comedy central the other day and he finished it with that saying......just wondering if it is his original work or did he get it from somewhere else....(like the forum) GS

In looking around for this quote, it comes up as anonymous.

Originally Posted by JacksonB

Could the oil tank have been a small one used to store oil for a stove? Did they cook on the old Mount?

Yes they did cook on the Mount. (Excerpt from Farewell Old Mount Washington)

Before the advent of prohibition, meals complete with wines and liqueurs were served in the cabin, and the fame of this floating dining room was comparable in the 1880’s and 1890’s to Delmonico’s in New York and Antoine’s in New Orleans.

[madrasahs]

Originally Posted by Misty Blue

Yup. I go for wood furnace and water for the tank.

1) The tank could even have been empty at the time, but a full tank of diesel fuel possibly could have survived the fire around it, especially if fire hoses were directed on it. (But it doesn't look like an oil tank. It looks like a tank that would hold something clean, potable, maybe filtered-water. Maybe whole milk moved by steamship to market without shaking? Maple syrup?)

2) The smokestack is very high, suggesting that the exhaust was rich in ash and embers. The photo with the big plume of black smoke says coal. Here's a little bit from a steam train forum that seems to tell it all:

"Well for starters woe to the hapless fireman that put out to much smoke..This was a BIG NO NO and was frown upon by the railroad management and cities and towns along the right of way...In fact firemen was very suspicious of anybody taking pictures because it could be a railroad photographer taking pictures to insure the fireman was not in violation of the no smoke rule or if he was then to turn into the management as evidence of the smoke rule violation.

"Now steamers being steamers would indeed put out smoke at times..The black smoke was cause by poor coal with too much slate and over firing by the fireman thus wasting coal...White smoke was the sign of a good fire and good burning coal.A highly skilled fireman would put out very little smoke during his trip.
Now grades would cause the smoke to roll as the engine dug into the trains tonnage..However a skilled fireman would keep that smoke to a minimum as well..

"And yes, not all firemen were skilled at their jobs of firing."

Overfiring (and the black smoke) would be expected when the Mount was "getting up a head of steam" upon departure.



http://www.the-gauge.com/showthread.php?t=12210

[Misty Blue]

Madrasaha hit the nail on the head, I think. It must be coal.

Looking at the pictures, as Mad points out, black smoke is a sign of improper cumbustion of coal. Wood with it's high moisture content (40%-50%) would put out a white plume. (Hence the Pope joke. Get it?)

We still have the question of where was the coal stored?

Start digging RIG!

Misty

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Here is another view of the train station from the right era. It was taken from the Mount on the water.
The tank has to be in the building, part of the station.
There is still no sign of wood verses coal for the Mount.
There are a few photos with other steamers that have cords or stacks of wood on different docks.


Here is the link to the super sized picture in PhotoPost

[lakershaker]

The tank on land could have been to service the trains in the station. Water would have been needed for the older steam trains, and diesel if they had diesel engines in the 30's there.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by madrasahs

1) The tank could even have been empty at the time, but a full tank of diesel fuel possibly could have survived the fire around it, especially if fire hoses were directed on it. (But it doesn't look like an oil tank. It looks like a tank that would hold something clean, potable, maybe filtered-water. Maybe whole milk moved by steamship to market without shaking? Maple syrup?) {snip}

I was just re-reading mcdude's excellent railroad post and noticed that in a B&W photo of the old Alton Station (17'th image into post, from mcdude collection, view from across the water, small rowboat in foreground, Old Mount and station in background) there appear to be 3 similar tanks under the roof (look above the bow of the Old Mount). Anyone else concur ? If indeed they are similar then the fact that there are 3 makes me lean towards storage of some goods rather than water for the Mount (my first thought). What common liquids (other than Sally's rum) would be transported in bulk quantities back in them days ??

{False Alarm - After blowing the pic up some more I think the "tanks" might just be the light colored background/hillside framed by the station's arches ???}

I also noticed that in RG's post (same thread) about the train wreck there was mention of it happening "above the pumping station" for the Weirs. Anyone know about this pumping station, which I assume was water for the train's boilers ??

[mcdude]

I thought of this thread when I recently posted this old postcard of "Lady of the Lake" because it shows the tremendous amount of timber needed to keep a steam ship going. If the Mount was wood-fired where would it have been kept at the Weirs?

[Misty Blue]

'Talked to capt. Harry Welch and he told me that the Mount ran on coal. It was delivered to the Weirs by train and brought down to the ship by weelbarrow.

I expect that the DES would put an end to their ash removal system, mixing it with lake water and dumping it in the Lake!

Misty Blue.

[Senter Cove Guy]

I was just re-reading the Granite State News article of 12/29/1939. Paragraph 9 under the heading Built in 1872 reads as follows:

Watching the “Mount” go proudly in the flames at its dock was the Grand Old Skipper of Lake Winnipesaukee, Capt. Leander Lavallee. He stood on the brow of the hill across from Tarlson’s store when the oil tank on the old sidewheeler exploded. Previously he had collapsed in front of his home at The Weirs when he realized what was happening. He said he was subject to angina.

We've talked about what powered the Old Mount and seemed to have settled on coal as the answer. However, the question is, what was an oil tank, large enough to cause a sizeable explosion, used for? I suppose the logical answer is to store lubricant but does that make sense? Or did it store fuel?

[oche16]

Steam engines req'd lubrication...

Were oil lamps used to illuminate the old Mount?

[SunsetPointWentworth]

In this picture that's posted by Rattlesnake girl from the book Farewell Old Mount.. It almost looks like one of the paddle wheels survived the fire. If it did make it through in one piece and could be found, any reason it couldn't be brought to the surface? I know the wreckage is in 200' of water, so obviously it wouldn't be easy, but WOW would it make a cool piece for a lakes region museum.

[BroadHopper]

Can anyone id where they were taken?

[WeirsBeachBoater]

Pic 1. Center Harbor Pic 2&3 Weirs

[Rattlesnake Gal]

SunsetPointWentworth, the lunette was removed from the starboard paddlewheel box. It doesn't make sense to me that they would leave the rest of the box at the pier.

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Gal

Rattlesnake Guy and I took a fieldtrip yesterday to Mystic Seaport, the Museum of America and the Sea in Mystic, Connecticut.
The 1969 copy of Farewell Old Mount Washington makes mention of the starboard lunette from the Mt. Washington being on display at Mystic Seaport.
R. Guy was preparing me for disappointment. Given how many years it has been since the publication, it wasn’t likely that it was still there.
The museum was exceptional and very large. It is very similar to Sturbridge Village, but of a seafaring town.
Upon getting the map, I gave up my quest and decided to just enjoy the tour. Finding the lunette would be like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Walking around a corner, there was a building with figureheads on display. We went in, I turned to the right and there it was.
I was very excited to have found this piece of historic memorabilia it and to have recognized it so easily.


The carving is of a mountain sunrise over Mount Washington. (The namesake of the ship.)
This adorned the starboard Paddlewheel box on Mt. Washington excursion steamboat on Lake Winnipesaukee.
Called a lunette, this fan-shaped panel was the center of one of the two huge boxes that covered the steamboat’s paddle wheels.
The half-round paddle boxes protected the wheels from damage and shielded passengers from the turning wheels and from the water thrown up by their blades. The base of the carving is approximately 8 feet wide. Full sized photo


This elaborately carved lunette adorned the Mt. Washington’s Port paddlewheel box.
It represents sunset over Mount Washington. (Notice the waves.)



I was also on the lookout for Nellie, the first propeller driven boat on Lake Winnipesaukee.
Happily, she is still at the museum. What a beauty.
I still need to organize the photos and put together a post. (I took quite a few. )

[bclaker]

When I was at Trailblazer's camp, we made a trip to Winnipesaukee and took a ride on the old Mount Washington. I remember having to climb the stairs over the paddlewheel axle to get from one end of the ship to the other. I wasn't sure how old I was, but I must have been 9 years old or younger, since I was born in 1930 and the fire was in 1939.

[bclaker]

I found this old picture of me in my Trailblazer uniform taken in 1937 and added it to the above post.