Whats up with the big boats.....

[glennsteely]

This past summer I was suprised to see boats of unimagineable size on the lake, one I saw in Meredith this summer had to be 70 feet long if it was an inch, an ocean going vessel type thing......I love the big ocean racer types, but the huge cabin cruiser types are just a little big, especially trying to dock a little 24 footer around one.......

[dpg]

Some people need to find something to do with all their money.

[JDeere]

IMHO the larger boats are in reality the cheap way to live on the lake. With land prices soaring and the taxes that accompany the valuation going nowhere but up. I would think a large boat that one can live on is cheaper the owning lake front.

[Merrymeeting]

Do we really need to resurrect this discussion again? You can find all the arguments, pro, con, and indifferent, in many, many other threads on this site.

How about we enjoy the holiday season and forgo the boat-bashing discussion for a few weeks?

[PROPELLER]

I doubt there was a 70' boat in Meredith or anywhere else on the lake that is privately owned. Only the Mt. Washington & maybe Doris E, Sophie C would be that large (not sure of the length of the latter 2). I think the largest boat on the lake that is privately owned is the one docked at Silver Sands (I forget the name) & if I recall it is in the 50' range.

[glennsteely]

Well I was just guessing 70' and I dont want to bash anything, I was just curious as to the larger and larger sizes of boats I have been seeing year after year. The good answer that I didnt think of is here and that is , its cheaper that lakefront property, I knew I could count on you guys. I would take that option if I had the money, instead of lakefront it is your own mobile island! I like it......AND.....I am a new guy here, no need to be so rude Merrymeeting, I want everyone to have a Happy holiday....big boat, small boat or no boat at all....just something to talk about......no harm intended.

[Merrymeeting]

Sorry that my post came across as rude. That was not my intention. I should nothave assumed as I did. Once you spend some time here you will see that there are some very strong opinions on boat sizes and types expressed here, lots of discussion, with not much position change after the noise is done.

I made the assumption that you were trying to fan the flames again, and that was wrong. For that I apologize.

Welcome to the forum, and happy holidays!

[glennsteely]

Thank you for the note, I can understand the flames, but I was not trying to start anything......I grew up on the lake and spend at least 2 to 3 weeks there every summer, spring or fall. It just seems that the watercraft are getting larger and larger, I know a lot of it comes with the richer and richer people that are visiting the lake and buying, or should I say, tearing down and building homes on the lake. I can remember the first time I saw a big off shore racer on the lake, it was an awesome sight. Before that it seemed to be mostly small runabouts and the occaisonal cabin cruiser. The first big, fast boat I saw on the lake when I was about 8 years old was called "hells bannana" it had triple outboards on it and was very exciting......I love boats and boating as much as the next guy and my passion for the lake is, in my opinion, unmatched by many, and I do not use the forum to bash. I am glad you responded and now we have gotten to understand each other better I look forward to another friend to share my experiences and questions with........Happy Holidays to you and yours and do me a favor........Try to stay warm.....Glenn

[Will]

FYI: its a 53' Carver , 530 Voyager. And it is usually docked at silver sands.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

One of the largest pleasure boats on the lake is the Chris Craft Conqueror that Jerry Harper (Harper Resorations) owns. Its a 1949, 53 foot (rare triple engine) and is moored by Grouse Point. Very nice boat.

[DLBIV]

I have had a place on the lake for 7 years now and yes I have seen the size of the boats increase. I think it's pretty exciting I now can go to a boat show all summer long by simply walking the docks at Meredith. Have a great holiday and before you know it the Feb boat show in Boston will be here with iceout not long after.

Later
DLB IV

[fatlazyless]

Anyone know the name and use of that big boat at the big dock at Big Beaver Island that is close to the Center Harbor-Meredith town line? Description: steel or aluminum hull & upper structure, large open main & upper deck, looks like a salt water sight seeing or whale watching type. Not a yacht with personal living areas. Set up for large groups. Not the Big Sandy from Sandy Island Camp and not the MV Bear from Camp Lawrence & Camp Nokomis. It's maybe 50-60-70 feet long and looks like a commercial, double deck tour guide boat, and it goes back and forth from the direction of Center Harbor to Meredith Bay in the late afternoon & evening. It is not the Doris E. or the Sophie C. or the Mount Washington(duh). It is a large boat and has been on the lake for more than ten years. What else? It has a white exterior and has groups of people on board who are sight-seeing or someting? It lives at Big Beaver Island and it once was bearing down on my right of way while I was sailing around in a little 12' Hobie Holder sailboat out by Buoy 3. What an outrage! Imagine that happening here on Lake Winnipesaukee, ahem!

[Will]

Beaver Island boat is called Manitou, its a 47' Bluewater.

Will

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

Originally Posted by PROPELLER

...I think the largest boat on the lake that is privately owned is the one docked at Silver Sands (I forget the name) & if I recall it is in the 50' range.

The 54' Carver at anchor in Sanders Bay Aug 2001. Name then, "My Utha Summa Humma".



The same boat under new owner, dockside at Silver Sands. Now called "Relentless". Sept 2004

[Senter Cove Guy]

Check it out. The boat in the first 2 pictures has 5 portholes while the boat in the third picture has 6. Similar boats though.

[Joe Kerr]

Originally Posted by Senter Cove Guy

Check it out. The boat in the first 2 pictures has 5 portholes while the boat in the third picture has 6. Similar boats though.

Sorry SCG, Skipper of the Sea Que is correct. The pictures are of the same boat. Guy, you are very observant about the portholes. Look closer though and you will see that the first 2 pictures of My Utha Summa Humma show only the port side of the ship. The picture of the Relentless shows 6 portholes but that's on the starboard side of the ship.

I've peeked in the portholes and It looks nicer on the inside than my house does . The owner certainly has his ship together.

Good holidays to all.

[gtxrider]

Who takes the jetski off the top or do they pull the plug until the jetski floats off?

Some of the BIG boats have thruster underneath that makes it easier to spin the boat around in tight spaces.


It must be nice to have that kind of disposable income.

[webmaster]

I took these shots in 2000 as a crew fitted out the brand new 53' "My Utha Summa Humma":

[Will]

There is actually a crane on the top deck that lowers the pwc. THis boat has a bow thruster and twin 450 Cummins.

[glennsteely]

That is the boat we saw in Meredith this summer.......I think it is the boat that prompted my question......it is BIG and beautiful.......ah, disposable income....

[gtxrider]

Yah, but I wouldn't want to slalom behind that boat. She may kick a great wake to the wakeboard set though.

But what ever floats your boat as they say.

[madrasahs]

Somebody mention Big Boat?

Stay away from between any two of these cruisers. Their combined wakes can be seen shooting 8-10 feet high on Lake Winnipesaukee! I have seen reports of 17-foot-high wakes at a Missouri lake site. Woo-Hoo!

This news story will have to do in the meantime:

OSAGE BEACH (AP) - Heavy boat traffic and bigger boats created wakes like the one that struck and sunk a 31-foot pleasure craft on Lake of the Ozarks, drowning a Barnhart woman over the weekend, officials said...At 5:50 p.m. Friday, the boat carrying Wendy Gott and others left the lake’s Party Cove...As wakes pounded the boat, more water crept in. The stern went under water and the bow went into the air, throwing the passengers. Within seconds, the boat sank 60 feet, with the 35-year-old Gott still inside, officials said.

One Osage Beach salvage company reported raising three sunken boats in 24 hours beginning Friday night. "It looks like the ocean out here," said Tim McNitt, who owns Atlantis Dive and Dock Salvage of Osage Beach...So far this year, he’s raised 15. He said he measured an 8-foot wave over the weekend at Grand Glaize Beach

He said the problem is the changing size of boats. When Lake of the Ozarks was created, 18- to 20-foot runabouts could safely pass each other. "Large boats need to be more aware of what they are doing," said water patrol officer Doug Kissinger.

There is no limit to the number of boats allowed on the lake at one time, making it difficult to regulate traffic, said Capt. Joe Hughes of the water patrol.

[Tyler]

I think you have been drinking to much eggnog. I am sure the wakes are quite large though. Just curious have you ever seen wakes this size between these two boats or are you assuming/guessing?

[rickstr66]

8' - 10' high wakes????? Think about that for a second..... nevermind 17' Seriously....... stop and think about that. Go up to a tree and measure 8-10' and then 17'.Thats open ocean stuff. I have been boating regularly on the lake for 15 years and have never come across an 8'-10' wake. People constantly over estimate boat wakes and wave heights. Many a time I have heard guys explain how the lake had "6 footers out there" or even higher. I was on the lake 2 years ago in July under the worse conditions I had ever experienced. There were ligit 4 footers out there. I have never seen 6 footers on the lake.

[fasttech]

I don't know when you people last priced a boat that size but let me tell you it is cheaper to purchase a waterfront home .

[madrasahs]

Originally Posted by rickstr66

8' - 10' high wakes????? Think about that for a second..... nevermind 17'. Seriously....... stop and think about that. Go up to a tree and measure 8-10' and then 17'. That's open ocean stuff.

OK, take it up with laker Tim McNitt:
"One Osage Beach salvage company reported raising three sunken boats in 24 hours beginning Friday night. "It looks like the ocean out here," said Tim McNitt, who owns Atlantis Dive and Dock Salvage of Osage Beach...So far this year, he’s raised 15. He said he measured an 8-foot wave over the weekend at Grand Glaize Beach."

Originally Posted by rickstr66

I have been boating regularly on the lake for 15 years and have never come across an 8'-10' wake. People constantly over estimate boat wakes and wave heights. Many a time I have heard guys explain how the lake had "6 footers out there" or even higher.

Go to Rattlenake Gal's concurrent post WRT the Old Mount. Here's what you'll find: "...Waves running from four to ten feet in height are seen each year..."

(There's three ways to measure waves -- I'm talkin' wakes, though).

Originally Posted by rickstr66

I was on the lake 2 years ago in July under the worse conditions I had ever experienced. There were legit 4 footers out there. I have never seen 6 footers on the lake.

"I was on the lake 2 years ago in July", too, and a combined wake had me thrown from my sailboat! (I realized later how it happened, and been watching for combined wakes ever since).
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/oldforu...mes;read=57548 Cruiser wakes that strike each other don't "travel" like waves...they collide...and shoot straight upwards. Fortunately, my boat can't be sunk easily.

Just dealing with a single Big Boat wake produced this "SeaTow" news item from this from three months ago:

A wake from a passing boat caused a 25-foot commercial salvage vessel to sink Monday evening on Lake Macatawa, Coast Guard officials said.

Chief petty officer Todd Stein said the boat, which belongs to St. Joseph-based Sea Tow, sank about 7:30 p.m. near Drake Point Light, which is across the lake from Big Bay.

According to Stein, Sea Tow employees were sitting in the boat completing paperwork when a 33-foot cabin cruiser passed about 30 yards away. The cruiser was traveling westbound at an estimated speed of 12 knots (or 13 miles an hour).

"The wake crashed over the stern, and it was swamped and subsequently capsized," Stein said. "We had a very busy weekend assisting other boaters, and we wrapped up the busy weekend by salvaging our own vessel."

The boat -- valued at $23,000 and based at Eldean Shipyard -- remains structurally intact, but could be a total loss because of damage to its engine and electronics. Pharisa said mechanics will inspect the boat to determine its fate.

The above account sounds like it was just a cruiser "mindlessly enjoying the lake".

Big Boats can create huge wakes -- much less combined-huge-wakes. I'd love to be at the helm to demonstrate -- for you -- how huge wakes can be crafted intentionally.

If you've started your boating career with a big inboard, fifteen years isn't many years.

[Cal]

I won't argue the point. Just let me say that I measure vertically(straight up) from the lowest part to the highest part. I'll swear some people measure up the face of the wave(like the hypotenuse of a triangle)to get these crazy statistics
I'm not always there and have surely missed something , but I've never seen anything over and honest 4'
Sitting here in awe , looking at my office ceiling that's 10' I find hard to believe waves that size on Winni. I must be from Missouri , cause ya gotta "show me"

[rickstr66]

I dont have an inboard. I have a 19' bass boat. I will stand by my statement. I dont care what others report or say. Winni has never seen 8-10' boat wakes. 3 of the most dangerous areas for boat wakes on the lake are out in front of silver sands, the mouth of Paugus bay infront of Weirs beach and the stretch of water from Alacoya(sp) beach to Ames Farm. I fish those areas regularly. Boats pass to all sides of me. I have never been capsized. I have never seen 8-10 boat wakes. BTW how close would the 2 boats have to be to cause thisalledged 10' wake? I would guess so close that a 3rd boat would not be able to be inbetween them.
Boat wakes can be affected by many things. One is the slope of the bottom of the lake. the quicker it rises, the lager the boat wake . So a boat that will typically produce a 1-2' boat wake can produce a bigger one if conditions allow, but never 10'. Ive been on the Hudson river when a barge goes by. It will literally suck the water right out of a creek as it passes by. 1 minute your in 4-5' of water, the next your on dry (well actually wet) land. I have also been out in the main river 50-100' from one as it passes. Its wake is about 2'

[BroadHopper]

When I was living on the Broads in Gilford, the biggest whitecaps were from the North, If there was a strong Northerly wind the waves will be coming in from Moultonboro neck. I've seen 4 footers, possibly 5 footers that will lift up docks and throw them aside. I've seen many boats break from moorings. I don't know about waves bigger than that. Not even the Mount could create a bigger wave.
I got caught off the east side of Rattlesnake once when the wind was blowing from the North. I was on a 21 footer and Man, What a ride! The waves will wash over the windsheild! The bilge pump did not stop pumping till quit a while after!

[PROPELLER]

Mad, use your common sense. I don't care what people or articles say. There are no wakes on Winni from any boat 8-10 feet. I have been on the ocean when there are 10-12 footers & there is nothing on Winni even close, believe me. There are also no waves from the windiest day on Winni more than 4-5 feet.

2 years ago I was out on the windiest day of the summer & the wind was from the Northwest which creates the roughest conditions on Winni when you are at the mouth of Alton Bay or Wolfboro Bay, sustained wind from 20-30 mph. Rode back from Wolfboro to Gilford against the wind & in a 27' express cruiser had no trouble going 15-18 mph, waves no more than 4', maybe occasional 4.5'-5', & certainly nothing capable of sinking the boat even if taken broadside.

[Will]

I have done numerous offshore trips from newburyport to new bedford in a 32' Blackfin with twin Cat 3208's I will tell you that I have been out in all kinds of weather. 8-10' waves will absolutely stop a boat dead. This boat is a very heavy boat with a flybridge and about 450 horse in each motor. We also got stuck at the end of the canal buzzards side in 14' Breakers, CONFIRMED. We would get to the top of the wave and it would break on the bridge then I would throttle up and the boat would stop dead at the next one. This was an ocean boat, not like the plastic we have here. If we on the lake encountered anything bigger than 3's noone would be out there. I know the people who boat on the lake and believe me when these people see whitecaps they turn the other way, nevermind being out there in 8-10's. I highly doubt this on the lake.


Will

[madrasahs]

Originally Posted by BROADHOPPER

When I was living on the Broads in Gilford, the biggest whitecaps were from the North

That makes sense -- but only from a Gilford perspective. The biggest whitecaps are produced by winds from the Northwest on Winnipesaukee.

Originally Posted by Will

I have done numerous offshore trips...

Me too, but then I have always picked my weather.

The biggest wave I ever encountered was about 100-feet long, and 10-feet high. It ruined an office picnic on an ocean breakwater by sweeping all the food into the sea. (Just one wave, from out of nowhere).

Originally Posted by Cal

I'm not always there and have surely missed something , but I've never seen anything over and honest 4'...I find hard to believe waves that size on Winni. I must be from Missouri , cause ya gotta "show me"

Then maybe you'll agree with your own Marine Mafia website?

Originally Posted by BAJA342, from the Marine-Mafia site

: What I find funny about cruisers is that the ***** Thru Hull exhaust can be heard well after they have been passed. But they care less that their 6' high wake just flipped a canoe or smashed a couple of docked boats three miles away..

(Discussion was of a Missouri lake).

Originally Posted by rickstr66

I have a 19' bass boat.

Bass boat? Maybe you've heard of Nick Ruiz of ESPN: "...This is not only for convenience, as it is hard enough trying to catch bass, never mind while holding onto ones pedestal seat for dear life as the boat is rocked by the 3-foot-high wake of a passing cruiser boat, but also for safety."

Wonder what Nick would say if he had one of Cal's 4-footers come his way.

Originally Posted by rickstr66

I don't care what others report or say. Winni has never seen 8-10' boat wakes.

I'll take a photo anyway next June, when "they" come out in earnest. It's a spectacular sight. While sailing on Winnipesaukee, I've had some wakes crest noisily above my head -- behind me.

Most of the wakes I'm talking about are self-canceling and don't make it to shore. Otherwise, my dock would be swept its entire length two-three times an hour, instead of just maybe "once on Sundays". Still, it sounds like a lot of Big Boaters are unaware of what is going on behind them.

What's scarier: Experienced boaters talking of big wakes they've seen...or people who don't see the big wakes at all?

[rickstr66]

Never heard of Nick Ruiz. Been bass fishing for over 20 years, never heard of him. If you look at the general consenses, almost everyone that has replied agrees wake and wave heights are over estimated constantly.

[Will]

"Me too but I always pick my weather"

Mad- This right here just showed me how much of a "Offshore expert you are" Welcome to new england boating, since when does the sky shining and the birds a chirping mean you wont get caught out there. You cannot pick your weather on the ocean. I have hit breakers in the canal on a perfectly nice day. If you honestly think you can pick your days when you boat on the ocean, buy a housebot cause the dock better be a comfortable place to stay.

Will

[madrasahs]

Some may have read your most recent ad-hominem Christmas Day post before it was removed.

Normally, it would have been ignored by me; however, it arrived coincidentally the same day that some long-awaited digital photos arrived.

These are photos of tree roots of a maple at my shore front. The trunk does not appear in the pictures. The tree itself still stands, but presently has only one living branch. It’s about the same diameter as others I have cut for firewood on my lot -- and counted the rings -- so it‘s a ~50-year-old tree. Most sprang up opportunistically when the builder accidentally cut down every marketable tree 50 years ago in a "landscape adjustment".

The black shoes in the lower part of the photo are mine, and rest about a foot above the June Winnipesaukee-level waters.

What those shoes should have been standing on is soil. The tree parts you see are three-foot-long roots from which the soil has been washed away into the lake. I’d estimate that there’s more than four feet of shoreline missing.

Some quiet days, a rock will sploosh into the lake. The sound has always puzzled me, as I previously thought it was only ice that caused shoreline destruction. Big Boat wakes washing mud into Winnipesaukee is a good thing?

Now this formerly-mute maple tree can illustrate what happens when Big Boats are introduced to a lake.

Since about 1985, the lake, its structures, its woods, its water, its shoreline, its decibels, has changed -- as we have long discussed -- and the changes coincide with the arrival of the “Me” Generation.

[SIKSUKR]

Hey Mad. this might actually be a good thing for you. The cycle of lakes in this part of the world is just the opposite of what's happened to you. Most have started out as nice clear water ponds/lakes and eventually fill in with organic matter to become bogs and finally firm soil. Have you ever thought that this is prolonging the life of winni? Something to think about. SS

[PROPELLER]

Mad, boats in general big & small can cause wakes damaging to the shoreline. Just because you don't like big boats does not give you the right to blame all that you think is bad for Winni on the big boats. We are all to blame for problems with the lake. Big boats, small boats, marinas, shorefront property owners et al.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by madrasahs

. I’d estimate that there’s more than four feet of shoreline missing.

Gee Mad , in my book , I see it as the Lake is 4 feet bigger

The ol' glass is half full/half empty theory

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by madrasahs

Since about 1985, the lake, its structures, its woods, its water, its shoreline, its decibels, has changed -- as we have long discussed -- and the changes coincide with the arrival of the “Me” Generation.

MAD. Maybe you should see what your neighbors are doing to the shoreline. Some big shot state contractor that lives next door, convince the state that he needs a 'land grant' to build a berm out so that he can have a 'regulation size' dock put in. What it did was allow the sand to build up on our shoreline so that eventually our dock was dry. We had a hard time trying to convince the Gilford Wet lands committee what was happenning so that we can get an extension to extend our dock. When that fails, my Dad took it to court. The head of the Wet Lands committee quit after the pre-trial and the Governor can't believe it came back to haunt him. We couldn't afford to bring it to justice so now we have a beautiful beach with a dry dock.

[Will]

Well as I look at it, its called erosion. Its part of life, even the wind can stur up the water to do this so I think its not a big worry. It cant be stopped!

****

Will

[madrasahs]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Hey Mad. this might actually be a good thing for you. The cycle of lakes in this part of the world is just the opposite of what's happened to you. Most have started out as nice clear water ponds/lakes and eventually fill in with organic matter to become bogs and finally firm soil. Have you ever thought that this is prolonging the life of winni? Something to think about. SS

Winnipesaukee is fortunate to be an oligotrophic lake. (It could "stay good" for years).

But abuses can "force" a good lake into a eutrophic lake -- a dying lake.

Here's what nhlakes.org says:

There is no “Fountain of Youth” for our lakes. To help keep your lake from aging before its time, lower cultural impacts by:

Keeping shore areas naturally vegetated and shaded
Assuring that all soils are covered with growth such as groundcovers, shrubs and trees
Using proper fertilization near shore areas or better yet, no fertilizer. http://www.nhlakes.org/edbrochures/a...oryoflakes.htm

Here's another picture of that 50-year-old tree now that I've managed to turn the photo "upright". The roots have been exposed by giant wakes since 1985. It is not a mangrove tree, which holds its trunk above the water by growing atop "aerial" support roots.

Soil supported the tree for decades, but the soil is gone now and "eutrophying" the lake. (And making a very leaf-free maple in the process).

Originally Posted by Cal

Gee Mad , in my book , I see it as the Lake is 4 feet bigger. The ol' glass is half full/half empty theory

It's also less transparent, shallower, sunnier, muddier, and more silted -- all the better to support milfoil.

"Half-full"?

Whatever floats your boat?

[Tyler]

I think you are exaggerating a bit Mad. We have a place not far from you and have owned it for over 60 years. I can honestly say we have not lost an inch of shoreline due to boat wakes of any type. As a matter of fact we have not lost a single inch of shoreline in 60 years, PERIOD!

From your photo's our shorelines look similar and we experience much more boat/wake traffic than you do at your property.

[Cal]

Could it be that this tree simply grew there from day one and this is the way the roots came to be

[madrasahs]

Originally Posted by Tyler

I think you are exaggerating a bit Mad. We have a place not far from you and have owned it for over 60 years...we experience much more boat/wake traffic than you do at your property....we have not lost a single inch of shoreline in 60 years, PERIOD!

Exaggerating...from a photograph?

You have me at a disadvantage since I don't know of where you speak. The only shoreline that has more boat/wake traffic near me is a lee shore, with lots of sandy shoreline. I may have your shore in the background of some of my early photographs. Maybe they could "refresh your recollection" of your shoreline.

Originally Posted by Tyler

From your photo's our shorelines look similar...

You have a maple tree too?

Originally Posted by Cal

Could it be that this tree simply grew there from day one and this is the way the roots came to be?

It was really tricky holding that seed over the lake while it sent out roots and branches; however, I had lots of lumber and -- as a kid -- lots of time.

[HUH]

Our shoreline has not changed an inch ..been the same since 53