Biggest recorded bass caught???

[Matinnh]

Is there a new hybrid bass in Winnipesaukee known as a Bigmouth?
While rewiewing the Forum I noticed a contributor referred to a Bigmouth Bass. That's a new one to me.

[JohnNH]

Tyler

Post #5 in this thread ( posted by you):
about 15 years ago before New Hampshire Fish and Game opened up Lake Winnipesaukee to virtually unlimited bass tournaments, 5 and 6 pound smallmouth bass were very common. Today bass tournament anglers get excited when they weighin 3 pound smallie. Wonder what another 15 years will do to this bass fishery?

In my post I said 4 & 5lb so I was 1 Lb under your comment.

By the way, you also mentioned that NHF&G opened up the lake to tournaments about 15 years ago. Please note;There have been tournaments on the lake dating back to the 70's. NHF&G decided to start requiring permits in the 93 // 94 time frame.

I have a couple of questions for you:
1) Are you a Bass fisherman?
2) Have you ever fished a tournament?

Additional note: As I mentioned, I have been fishing for about 50 years, and to date I have caught less than a dozen smallmouth over 5 Lbs. This class of smallmouth is definately a trophy in anyones book.

Regards,
JohnNH

[Tyler]

That was not what I was implying, that tournament fishermen were weighing these weight fish 15 years ago, sorry you misunderstood my post.

Let me correct you again, I posted the following in that same #5 post, "about 15 years ago before New Hampshire Fish and Game opened up Lake Winnipesaukee to virtually unlimited bass tournaments". "virtually unlimited" you somehow missed. I understand how long tournaments have been allowed on the lake.

I am a bass fisherman and I do fish a tournament on ocasion, try to limit it to one or two a year.

Question for you, when did you start fishing the NH lakes like Lake Winnipesaukee, Squam, just to name a couple?

[b8tcaster]

I too have fished the lake for quiet a few years and it does seem to me that the availabilty of 3 pound and larger fish has declined. No facts to back this up but I believe that the really big fish have declined. I will also say that the fishery is as healthy as ever with the average size remaining constant even under the increased pressure. I think Tyler made an important point though that tournament organizations and anglers need to take the point and find ways to reduce the impact that this sport has on our fisheries seeing as we have the most to lose.I personally would support ideas to reduce the quantity of tournaments on New Hampshire waters because it seems to me that with so many more tournaments these days the participation at each event has declined. Maybe if all interested parties were to get together and come up with a plan we would all be better off. Sure would be nice to see anglers, property owners, fish and game, tournament organizations, Lake associations, etc join forces so that we all can enjoy the resource together.

Merry Christmas to you all

[Grant]

I second b8caster's assessment. The number of 3+ pounders has declined remarkably -- just within the last 15-20 years. We would routinely catch a good number of 2-3 pounders off our dock, with more and better fish found at regular spots with better structure. In the past ten years especially, the numbers and frequency of such catches has bottomed out. And you'll fiind another very good and reliable endorsement of this observation from Harold Lyons in his excellent book, "Angling in the Smile of the Great Spirit." I believe he reads this forum, so I'd be interested in hearing his comments.

At any rate -- there are a lot of nice bass in the Lake, and on a cold Christmas afternoon here in Pennsyltuckey, my thoughts drift northward, and I can't wait to spend a warm summer twilight casting a jitterbug toward the #59 buoy...

Merry Christmas!

[b8tcaster]

Hello Grant. I am curious if similar topics arise in Pennsylvania and what actions have been taken by interest groups there to help the situation. I also wish we had some of those big stripers up here like at Raystone

Best regards
Steve

[SAMIAM]

Just wondering why an 18' "fishing" boat needs a 250 hp motor.What can you catch trolling at 70mph?

[rickstr66]

Samiam, 18' bassboats do not have 250 hp moters. 20' do though. I have a 19' with a 150 hp motor. The main reason to have such a motor is..... time. Our tournaments are limited to an 8 hour day. When fishing lakes the size of Winni, Champlain, Hudson river or Lake Erie and Ontario you need the bigger motors to get you from spot to spot on the lake in a timely manner. I dont know of anyone who has ever caught a fish going 60mph.
Try thinking of it like a car. Your car can probably go 100mph. Do you ever go that fast? So why have it there? Im no motor expert but it probably has something to do with tourque and lower speed power. If a car engine was smaller and only capable of going say...... 70mph im guessing your take off speed and tourque would suffer.
Besides those reasons.... This is a free country. We can do what we like as long as its within the law. God Bless America!!!!!

[glennsteely]

since I am the one who said it. Well, lets dig into this a little. Websters dictionary defines the word BIG as LARGE so I guess the two words are interchangeable, and anyone who knows anything about bass fishing has heard or used that nickname for the LARGEMOUTH BASS before, I am sure.....Another interesting fact....the same Websters dictionary defines the word BIGMOUTH as, and I quote: "big'mouth' n. (slang) a person who talks too much, esp. in an opinionated way." end quote. Now to answer your question with a question.....Do you live.....IN.......the lake? If you do, I guess you answered your own curious, but extremely sarcastic question.........Glenn

[Grant]

b8caster --

I have to plead ignorance with regard to any issues re: bass tourneys here in Pennsylvania. It's a different situation -- a big state, but not nearly as much good bass water (lake, anyway). Most of the tourneys (at least in this end - eastern) in the state are on the rivers (Delaware River has a lot of bass -- and even has shad all the way up to Trenton) or on the many man-made lakes (such as Raystown, that you mentioned) -- most notably Wallenpaupack to the north. Other than those, the "local" bass tournaments are mostly out of state -- NY, MD, from what I read. Pennsylvania is much more noted for its trout waters, whitetail hunting, and substantial black bear population. I've done some bass fishing down here on various rivers and ponds, but tend to do more trout fishing in PA and bass fishing in NH.

[b8tcaster]

Samiam, those big motors are so we can get outa your way fast when you decide to throw a big wake at us as you stated in a previous post....lmao

[JohnNH]

Several posts in this chain had asked some questions that are in need of answers:

1) Big Mouth is what many anglers will call a Largemouth. Many anglers also reference the Largemouth as Green fish and Smallmouth as Brown fish.

2) 250 HP on a small boat:

The manufacturers must abide by regulations and in general this is the options available on boats:

18 & 19 feet = 150 to 175 hp and in a few cases they can go to 200 HP

20 to 21 feet = 150 to 225 HP

21 & 22 feet (that’s as big as the Bass Boats get for now) = 150HP to 250 HP and a few of the large models have an option for a 300 HP.

3) Creel information that was posted and showing a decline in size is based on an average. These numbers fluctuate due to the time of year, quantity of fish allowed and quantity of anglers in any event.

When these calculations are made, the average is taken as follows:
Total smallmouth / number of anglers = average size. Let's expand that by the fact that tournament angling is increasing in population and the number of anglers competing today is up by nearly 35% compared to 5 years ago.
In any event there will be anglers that didn't catch their limits. When you divide the total weight by the number of participants the average will actually go down and this is due to the number of anglers in the even whcih increases the number of anglers that didn't get their limit.

I have been responsible for compiling these reports for fish & game for about 9 years for our organization and I consider myself to be fairly well versed in the data structure.

If you look at the tournament information from several of the laarger groups: NEBA of NH, NH Bass Federation & MA Bass Federation, you will seee that 10 years ago the top teams had between 17 and 21 lbs at the top of the leader board. Today you need close to 20 lbs to place in the top 10 and 22 or 24 lb.s to win. To me this is a clear indication that the large fish are still there as well as the anlgers skills have impoved. ( you do the math = 8 fish per boat and divide that in 18 lb.s & then into 22 or 24 lbs. = nice average isn't it?).

There is another section of the report that may be more important. The report asks for the largest smallmouth & larges largemouth. These numbers will show the averages in large fish over the years.

Another item that needs to be added to the fish size calculations is due to years where there was poor spawn. You may ask what contributes to poor spawn and what does that have to do with average fish size.

Poor spawn can come form a variety of issues:
High Water
Low water
Late ice out
landscape modifications in primary spawn areas
heavy boat traffic; especially from jet ski's in shallow areas that churn up the beds with the water force from the jet drives.


I would like to ask all that feel that the Bass fisherman (tournament anglers) are causing the imaginary decline in bass population a question.

I believe your all fairly clear that we all enjoy the sport or we wouldn't do it. With that in mind, why would we intentionally cause harm to the fishing if it was clearly going to stop us from enjoying the sport.

Here's something to ponder:

Bass Tournament anglers have been practicing catch & release for many years. This means that we put all the fish back into the lake (alive). After a period of time there will be so many fish that the average angler will catch many smaller fish and fewer large fish due to the quantity of fish available (I have spots on the lake that a certain times we can catch 40 to 50 smallmouth with no effort at all and most of them are in the 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 lb range (no it's not during spawn)). Now please don't take this as an insult: The big fish are still around, but we all have to improve our skill levels to find them. In our circle of competitors there is about 15% or less of the competitors that will almost always find the big fish. Why? = They are excellent at finding the fish, figuring out what the fish want to eat, as well as developing a pattern by which they are more successful at catching them.

Last idea:

Perhaps we could set up a meeting place where we could have representation from Fish & Game, a few of the large Bass clubs, and members from the general public (including members of this site), in attendance. An open forum like that could be educational.


If you’re interested, perhaps a few of us could work on the logistics of setting this up.

Regards to all,

John/NH

[rickstr66]

John, Great post. Very well thought out and explained.

[SAMIAM]

Just like to rile you guys up,b8caster.....don't take it to heart.I promise ,if I see you,i'll go back to headway speed.

[JohnNH]

Samiam, If you stop leaving big boat wakes, it will have an impact on the economy. As many of us get older, those times we hit a big wake and undure a less than comfortable landing when we slam into the next wave, we need to visit our doctors to straighten out the old spine. Less wakes = less $$$ in the doctors pocket - and so on.

If we can get everyone to stay on plane = less wakes. It's those big water displacment hulls that leave a wake at any speed and a mountain of water for everyone to deal with.

By the way, Samiam - you have been very calm on the board lately - what's up with that'.

I always enjoy your point of view.

Regards,
John/NH

[SAMIAM]

Just been busy with work....computer was down for about a month...then a nice long vacation to the island of Vieques.Life is so hard.
Always great to hear your point of view ,also. Sometimes you have to take what I say with a grain of salt because I must admit that I love to stir the pot.

[b8tcaster]

John and Samiam, Hey John You "older guys" might not like them wakes that Samian throws up but us younger ones sure do...lol. Nothing better than getting some air under those bass boats once in awhile. Of course it doesnt make the wife happy when she is riding with me. Love the forum idea. Would be a great chance to put a face to some of the names on here and perhaps address issues and concerns.One question I have for you John though has to deal with tournament mortality. Fish and Game research has shown that tournament mortality is significantly greater for large fish versus smaller fish. What are your thoughts on this and do you think it may be affecting the fishery?

Steve

[JohnNH]

Interesting topic,

I have to look through some of my archived files for a report I received from one of the NHF&G Biologists. The report was based on a study that was done in waters in Connecticut.

I will try to get it posted for all to read.

Regards,
John/NH

[Tyler]

John, are you suggesting the creel information that the tournament groups provide to NHF&G is a flawed system? If so what do you suggest they do to resolve this?

Since this creel information is used in part to determine the number of permitted bass tournament events allowed on Winni as well as all fresh water lakes in New Hampshire, how can you, as entrenched as you are with NHF&G, allow this practice to continue?

In summary, I noticed you never addressed the study I posted regarding the FACT that "Tournament caught and released bass do not find there way home" and because of this can have a considerable negative impact on our fisheries.

[Tyler]

from the book by Dr. Harold C. Lyon Jr. titled "Angling In The Smile Of The Great Spirit"

"Bass tournaments can do a number on the bass species, even with their catch-and-release methods, Lyon said. He pointed to the transport process and post-weigh-in releases that prevent the fish from making it back to their natural, cleaner habitat, if they survive at all. There were 88 bass tournaments on the lake in the summer months last year, he said".

It appears I am not the only one who understands Bass Tournaments are an issue.

[rickstr66]

I am back from vacation. I found the article i was talking about. I will quote it word for word from the May/ June 1995 Infisherman magazine. I will start off by identifying the reasearcher. His name is Dr. Mark Ridgeway. He is from the Harkness Laboratory of Fisheries Research in Ontario canada.The article is long and starts out talking about "home ranges" for bass . It proved that in fact bass do establish a "home range" what that means is a bass will seek out a section of a lake and that's where it spends its life, in that section of a given lake. Since they established that as "overwhelmingly " true, they decided to do a displacement study. I will now quote directly from the article.
Since ridgeway and his colleagues had defined homwe ranges for adult smallmouth bass it offered the oppertunity to test tehe effect of displacement. In tournaments large numbers of bass are moved long distances befiore being released. Some observers were concerned about the effects of such displacment.
Phil Morlock, Canadian rep of the Shimano sports fisheries Initiative worked with the group to plan the study.
Reasearchers caught 18 adult smallmouth in a conventional manner . They surgically implanted them with ultrasonic transmitters. Fish were then held in livewells and released an average of 4.2 miles from thier established home range. The range of displacement was from 1/2 a mile up to 8 1/2 miles from their home range.
One fish died soon after release and 2 remained in the release area. Individual fish remained in thier release areas an average of 7.8 days. with a range of less then 1 day for one fish and another fish that remained for 30 days. Once the fish left the release site (all did except 2) they returned to their home range within 1 to 9 days with an average of 4 days. To return home they swam in the appropriate direction 25 yards from shore. they negotiated narrow channles between sections of the rocky lake and one near their home range they swam straight across bays.
Homing smallmouth moved an average of 1.5 miles a day with some up to 6 miles a day.
In this study results suggested no reason for concern over anglers removing bass from thier home ranges and releasing them far away.

[rickstr66]

Tyler, Think about what John said and how averages are decided from creel census'. Lets say you and I go out on Winni for a day of fishing. You catch 5 fish that weight 15 lbs. I catch 2 fish that weigh 3 lbs. The "average' fish for that day is 2.57 lbs. But we can assume that you had several fish over that size to get to your 15 lbs and I had none even close. I had fewer fish and smaller fish which dropped the average fish weight considerabally. One way to "fix" a creel sensus, if it needs fixing at all is to "throw out" the top 10% and bottom 10% of the total creel. I dont think this is possible at the curent time because when conducting the creel they only count total bass caught then devide by # of anglers to get to ther numbers. They would have to monitor each individual angler weighing in or take the actual results from a tournament, eliminate the top and bottom 10% and then calculate. In my opinion though this will not change the results that much. For every good angler, there is a bad. For every 4 pound smallie caught , there is a 1 pounder brought in, or close to it.

[rickstr66]

I was reading some of the older threads on fishing and came across the threads by John Vair. He is a marine biologest for the state of NH. He states the smallmouth and largemouth fisheries on Winni are in excellent shape. he also goes on to explain when these fish were 1st introduced into the lake along with trout and salmon and what species reproduce and which do not and how they are stocked. This should answer many of the questions from the different posters in the above thread.

[Tyler]

What do you expect him to say?

I know from experience that this lake is not producing the numbers and the quality of bass it used to. I am only suggesting that the increase of bass tournaments has contributed to this, I am not saying they are the only reason. That's another story for another day.

The facts and references I have posted speak for themselves. Since it is now clear that bass tournaments have a significant impact on the ability for tournament released bass to return to what it considers home, how or what should be done to correct this situation? Let's turn this into something positive. Thoughts?

[secondcurve]

To All:

Thanks for some really interesting posts. I can't wait for next spring. However, I think that the folks who have targeted the Bass tournaments are missing the real offenders. We can argue the impact o the Bass Tournaments, but clearly the real offenders are the hard water fisherman. If they go, your fishery would improve markedly. I'm not suggesting that they should be banned because it is a great sport, but clearly this form of fishing is what hurts the fishery. Just an observation.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Matinnh

"Is there a new hybrid in Winnipesaukee known as a Bigmouth...?

Over Christmas, my guests were using my computer to research "monkfish", a dinner menu favorite (for them).

It is known locally as the "Allmouth".

http://www.gotosnapshot.com/Monkfish...h_catalog.html

[Grant]

Finally got around scanning some old pics I took when my cousin and I were fishing Winni for bass one week in '84. We had a VERY good week. We each scored one of this size:

http://www.pbase.com/gfevans/image/38571104

And, no, we were not practicing catch and release all the time back then -- we still loved eating the bass from the Lake, and enjoyed quite a few that week. And a few beers as well...

http://www.pbase.com/gfevans/image/38570899

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Found this in Google images.

Me with a 8.79 lb Largemouth Bass
caught (and released) on Lake Winnipesaukee, NH. in Aug.'97

[Grant]

Nice fish.

Looks like the Wolfeboro waterfront behind him.

In all my years fishing the Lake, I've never caught a largemouth...probably because we fish for smallies...

LOL -- I read the caption, looked at the guy and thought, "RG is a dude?!?!?"

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Originally Posted by Grant

LOL -- I read the caption, looked at the guy and thought, "RG is a dude?!?!?"

Oops, I’ve been found out! LOL - Without thinking, I just copied and pasted what was written under the picture.
Guess I should have edited the me part out.
No idea who he is, just liked his ‘big fish” and thought I would share it with my friends. I still haven’t caught a single fish on Lake Winnipesaukee.
How does someone go about getting a whopper recorded? Would most eat it, release or have it mounted?
PS: I really am a gal! (You have all seen me in the ForumFest photo.)

[rickstr66]

I am a Bass Fisherman. We always practice catch and release. having said that ... When would we keep a "whopper"? Everyones criteria is different. Most tournament guys would never kkep a fish unless it was a fish of a lifetime. Up here in the North that means a Largemouth over 8 lbs and a Smallmouth over 6. When harvesting a fish like that you have to ask yourself... What kind of lake are you harvesting it from(big or small) How old are these fish likely to be? How many more spawns could they contribute to? IN most cases fish this size are VERY old in the northern part of the country. They likely dont have too many years left. So if somoeone catches a fish of a lifetime and its close to the sizes I mention let them keep it for a trophy, otherwise put them back to fight and spawn another day. It will only help the fishery in the long run. Hope this answers your question as to whether to keep a "whopper" or not.

[JohnNH]

The gentleman in the picture is Rob Frye. He is the current president of the NH Bass Federation.

Rob is a great guy and that's a real nice Largemouth.

John/NH

[Tyler]

Rob looks nothing like that now! LOL.

[upthesaukee]

RG, if you should happen to catch that "whopper" that eats all those crawfish around Rattlesnake, what you can do is take a bunch of measurements of the fish (alive) such as the length, girth, point of tail to point of tail, and take several closeup photographs. The more measurements, the better. If you happen to carry a scale, record the fish's weight. Then put the fish back in the water to live another day.

Take your data and pictures to a quality taxidermist and they will, utilizing a styrofoam or other type of plastic mold, re-create your fish for you to hang over the headboard, fireplace, front door, etc..

The cost, though not cheap, is not much different than bringing in a "whopper", hoping that the taxidermist can get the skin off with no damage and recreate the fish.

Want a fish fry??? stick with the smaller fish. Above all, have fun fishing.

[gtxrider]

I have only caught 1 large mouth at the lake. I was walking out to the boat to go fishing and saw a bass in very shallow, no more than 2 foot of water. She was sitting on a bed between 2 docks and just for kicks I tied on a Berkly Power Bait Crawfish with no weight. No sooner did it hit the water the bass attacked the bait. I put her right back in the same spot.

I have always tried catch and release, I'm not to crazy about eating fish. They eat worms, yuck!

Take a picture and you can carry it with for evidence when you tell the story of the big one you caught.

[Senter Cove Guy]

Grant and I did a shore dive last summer that started at the entrance to Copp's Creek, just north of Store Island. It's weedy there until you get out aways. Returning from the dive, in the weeds, we swam with a small school of large mouths. I had never really seen a large mouth before but they were easily distinguishable from small mouths because of the black line that ran along their sides almost from head to tail.

[Grant]

And I think that those were the first largemouths I've ever seen in the Lake. Naturally, you see many more smallies when diving since you're in deeper, colder water, and the largemouths like the shallower, warmer, weedy areas. We did see some very nice smallies last summer. Didn't *catch* too many, but certainly *saw* them...

[Grant]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Over Christmas, my guests were using my computer to research "monkfish", a dinner menu favorite (for them).

It is known locally as the "Allmouth".

http://www.gotosnapshot.com/Monkfish...h_catalog.html

Monkfish -- also known in some parts as "poor-man's lobster." Very tasty, although somewhat difficult to cook (I think). They look much different with skin & head removed...