Braun Bay Rafting Bill

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by DEJ

Here are some facts from people who actually took the time to find out the facts vs. speculation.

From post #7 in this thread
I called and spoke with Ms. Patten. The #1 complaint from residents near Braun Bay is the number of boats.

Not noise, not trash. Boats. The goal of this legislation is to thin out Braun Bay.

From post #9 in this thread
I contacted NHMP. Here are the official complaint numbers from Braun Bay last year.
6 Rafting Violations/Noise Complaints (includes the report of an intoxicated person)
2 reports from boaters
4 complaints from residents. One resident was responsible for three of the calls.

Come on DEJ.......... Don't let facts cloud the issue......

I wonder how many of those with opinions for the bill actually visit braun bay?

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Come on DEJ.......... Don't let facts cloud the issue......

I wonder how many of those with opinions for the bill actually visit braun bay?

So 6 Rafting Violations/Noise Complaints (includes the report of an intoxicated person) and 4 complaints from residents from Braun Bay means nothing to you? These complaints/violations are the ones that are on record, but I’m sure there have been confrontations between land owners and boaters that are not part of this data.

I really think that you are not giving any thought at all as to why this could be a problem to the owners of lake front property in this area.

In your mind, just how many rafting violations and complaints from residents does it take to get something done so that landowners and boaters can coexist?

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

So 6 Rafting Violations/Noise Complaints (includes the report of an intoxicated person) and 4 complaints from residents from Braun Bay means nothing to you? These complaints/violations are the ones that are on record, but I’m sure there have been confrontations between land owners and boaters that are not part of this data.

I really think that you are not giving any thought at all as to why this could be a problem to the owners of lake front property in this area.

In your mind, just how many rafting violations and complaints from residents does it take to get something done so that landowners and boaters can coexist?

you may want to correct that.. 4 complaints, 3 from the same person = 2 complaints.. Just a heads up.

You don't pass laws and change something that has been in use for decades where there are already protection laws in place because 2 lake front owners had an issue. Address that issue and move on. No need for big brother to police us all. So until the MP says there is an issue and new regulations need to be passed for safety and the bays protection, I don't believe there is an additional need for repetative laws..

Now a question for you:

would you rather have our MP officers cracking down on major safety viloations, such as BUI, or sitting in braun bay with a tape measure?

[OCDACTIVE]

One other point for those reading this that don't visit the bay or haven't been there.

The sand bar sits in front of undeveloped land. This area is NOT on someones "front lawn" as some have claimed. Only on the busiest boating days of the year does the anchorage spread beyond this "non-developed area" where there are NO houses.
Carry on

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

1 last point for those reading this that don't visit the bay or haven't been there.

The sand bar sits in front of undeveloped land. This area is NOT on someones "front lawn" as some have claimed. Only on the busiest boating days of the year does the anchorage spread beyond this "non-developed area" where there are NO houses.
Carry on

Don't cloud the issue with facts OCD.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by DEJ

Don't cloud the issue with facts OCD.

Those always seem to get in the way of Feel good legislation like this.

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Now a question for you:

would you rather have our MP officers cracking down on major safety viloations, such as BUI, or sitting in braun bay with a tape measure?

You may want to correct that to read.... would you rather have our MP officers cracking down on major safety violations, such as BUI and Speeding. And the answer to that is “Yes”.

I don’t want a law to ban boaters and swimmers from having fun on any Lake in NH. I just think that landowners should have their rights to peace and quiet during the summer months just as I’m sure you want at your home year round. If only one resident has a complaint, to me that is enough to try to get something done. It’s unfortunate that it had to get to the drafting of a law, but to that resident it means everything in the world to them.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

You may want to correct that to read.... would you rather have our MP officers cracking down on major safety violations, such as BUI and Speeding. And the answer to that is “Yes”.

I don’t want a law to ban boaters and swimmers from having fun on any Lake in NH. I just think that landowners should have their rights to peace and quiet during the summer months just as I’m sure you want at your home year round. If only one resident has a complaint, to me that is enough to try to get something done. It’s unfortunate that it had to get to the drafting of a law, but to that resident it means everything in the world to them.

I am on the lake front and have had plenty of issues with fisherman hitting my boats and docks by overcasting. (in some cases ripping my cover and vinyl) I see this as an inconvenience as being on the lake front. Should I complain then have a represenative draft a bill to ban lake shore fishing because I find this to disturb my piece and quiet?

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

I am on the lake front and have had plenty of issues with fisherman hitting my boats and docks by overcasting. (in some cases ripping my cover and vinyl) I see this as an inconvenience as being on the lake front. Should I complain then have a represenative draft a bill to ban lake shore fishing because I find this to disturb my piece and quiet?

What does "I am on the lake front" mean?

Do you own Lake front property or are you using public boating facilities?

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

What does "I am on the lake front" mean?

Do you own Lake front property or are you using public boating facilities?

Family owns property but since I am not "the owner" I didn't want to portray that I am.

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Family owns property but since I am not "the owner" I didn't want to portray that I am.

Fisherman are hitting your boats on your family owned docks by overcasting. (in some cases ripping your cover and vinyl) and you only see this as an inconvience for being on the lake front.

I really hate to say this because it might get me banned from this forum, but you are living in a fantasy world with some of your comments and it shows just how immature you really are?

[DEJ]

YS, please think before you post. Your comment was completely uncalled for.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

Fisherman are hitting your boats on your family owned docks by overcasting. (in some cases ripping your cover and vinyl) and you only see this as an inconvience for being on the lake front.

I really hate to say this because it might get me banned from this forum, but you are living in a fantasy world with some of your comments and it shows just how immature you really are?

I guess some of us are here to discuss the issues and have more of a tolerance for our fellow boater and neighbor.

It is an inconvenience... Did I say something??? Absolutely when I saw it occur. Other times I just find tangled line and hook in my cover. Unfortunately not all of us convey the same courtesies as we would to our fellow man. I realize being on the lake shore has its advantages and its disadvantages. Do I feel I need a law to penalize every fisherman? Absolutley not. For the one or two people who are ignorant shouldn't ruin it for everyone else. So I don't feel a new law should be placed on the entire group. Also because I am already protected by one "destruction of personal property".

I don't think you should be banned from the site. Your comments are entertaining and you are showing your true colors... People can make their own judgments.

[Woodsy]

First and foremost....

The lake DOES NOT BELONG TO THE FORTUNATE FEW WHO OWN WATERFRONT PROPERTY!!! No offense to any waterfront owning member here but your littoral rights to the lake stop at the high water mark and your dock.... there is ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT to peace and quiet when you abut a public park!!!

It is truly amazing to me how people do not see the big picture... every liberty you take away diminishes the whole lake!

We already have a push to make the law should not be mentioned permanent... despite the NHMP saying in an article today that there isnt enough data yet to make a determination!

We have a push in Gilford to shut down Ames Farm permanently using zoning regulations... arguably the best public access boat ramp on the lake!

The towns that do have boat launches either charge a fee or ar limited to town residents only.

We have a no rafting law already that limits the PUBLIC use of the best sandbars on the lake for anchoring and swimming... and now there is push to further restrict the publics RIGHT to use the lake!!

What message does this send to the tourists who come here to visit? How are these short sighted rules going to effect the regions economy? Eventually people will go to places where they are made to feel welcome...

We are already seeing the effects of this during Bike Week... the bikers have been made to feel unwelcome by a host of local ordinances, price gouging, and an overwhelming police presence especially in Laconia. As a result, bikers have been going elsewhere, other places have picked up the slack.... and thier tourist $$$!

The boaters will go elsewhere as well.... No way to easily launch your boat and park the truck & trailer, dont go over 45... you might get a ticket! No fun for your kids when you cant anchor anywhere shallow and go swimming.

It all adds up to big bunch of "why bother going to Winni.... its no fun" and that adds up to hospitality businesses closing, a decrease in property values and an increase in property taxes to make up for loss of revenue!

We are already seeing the effects of this.... sad!

Woodsy

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

I guess some of us are here to discuss the issues and have more of a tolerance for our fellow boater and neighbor.

It is an inconvenience... Did I say something??? Absolutely when I saw it occur. Other times I just find tangled line and hook in my cover. Unfortunately not all of us convey the same courtesies as we would to our fellow man. I realize being on the lake shore has its advantages and its disadvantages. Do I feel I need a law to penalize every fisherman? Absolutley not. For the one or two people who are ignorant shouldn't ruin it for everyone else. So I don't feel a new law should be placed on the entire group. Also because I am already protected by one "destruction of personal property".

I don't think you should be banned from the site. Your comments are entertaining and you are showing your true colors... People can make their own judgments.

I'll bet that if your parents knew that you were writing such nonsense they would spank your bottom.

You are very lucky to have parents that own lake front property and that you can use it whenever you want to.
I'll bet that if you had the responsibilities that go with owning that land you would have a different attitude.

Now that I know you use your parents property and probably live miles away from it, I'll leave you alone because I thought I was talking to a person who might have worked hard to own their own water front on Lake Winni.

You had me fooled!

[DEJ]

All I can say is WOW!

[OCDACTIVE]

YS. Again I do not have to answer to you nor do you have a clue what you are talking about. I said Family.....

I have consistently tried to keep this on topic and you are consistently trying to make it personal. Time to take a step back and relax.

There's a bridge somewhere you can go sit under and ponder that.

[NoRegrets]

Yo-Sam? Is your intent to shut down another thread?
I enjoy all the perspectives but please do not risk everyones enjoyment or addiction by goading in this mannor....

Do we need more laws or can common sense be used?

[Resident 2B]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

I'll bet that if your parents knew that you were writing such nonsense they would spank your bottom.

You are very lucky to have parents that own lake front property and that you can use it whenever you want to.
I'll bet that if you had the responsibilities that go with owning that land you would have a different attitude.

Now that I know you use your parents property and probably live miles away from it, I'll leave you alone because I thought I was talking to a person who might have worked hard to own their own water front on Lake Winni.

You had me fooled!

Well, aren't you so special! You only talk to land owners that have worked hard to own water front on Lake Winni.

I thought this was a forum open to all who are interested in talking about the lake in a civil manner.

R2B (A person who worked hard to own water front on Lake Winni)

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

I'll bet that if your parents knew that you were writing such nonsense they would spank your bottom.

You are very lucky to have parents that own lake front property and that you can use it whenever you want to.
I'll bet that if you had the responsibilities that go with owning that land you would have a different attitude.

Now that I know you use your parents property and probably live miles away from it, I'll leave you alone because I thought I was talking to a person who might have worked hard to own their own water front on Lake Winni.

You had me fooled!

Time to put those guns down!

[NoBozo]

270:133 Braun Bay. No person shall form or allow the boat which he or she is operating or in charge of to be a member of a raft consisting of 3 or more boats in Braun Bay at any time when there are already 3 rafts consisting of 3 or more boats in Braun Bay. In this section, “raft” shall have the same meaning as in RSA 270:42, IV. Any person who violates this section shall be guilty of a violation.

I think the wording here is very poor. 3..OR More..boats in a raft is prohibted by the strict interpretation of the Wording. This means TWO boats Max in a raft. The wording in the proposed bill is going to lead to endless speculation as to what it means when different people read it....MPs, boaters, shoreside residents, PHDs..etc.

If the intent of the bill is to limit the number of boats in a raft to TWO boats max..lets just say so. ..it should be in PLAIN English. NB

PS: I've never been to Braun Bay before so as to notice all the Mayhem, but I intend to have a look next summer...just a LOOK, I'm not going to stop and anchor.

[BroadHopper]

It is very nice area. It's a bit crowded on weekends. But most boaters are very friendly and will help out in anchoring your boat. It is very clean, contrary to others opinion. Otherwise, I and others will not allow our children/grandchildren to swim. Sometimes on weekend you get the college crowd and they tend to get a little rowdy. Just a call to the MP usually does the trick.

I usually avoid it on weekends and holidays as I don't like crowds. It is perfect on weekdays and during the month of September.

Back in the days the sand bar in front of Ellacoya was very popular. Many of us learn to water ski there. Unfortunately the state added two spar buoys and boats are not allowed between the buoys and the beach.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

I usually avoid it on weekends and holidays as I don't like crowds. It is perfect on weekdays and during the month of September.

Wow, you are willing to "live and let live" what a concept. I hope you have kids Broadhopper so we can continue to pass on this thought process to the future generations, otherwise we are in real trouble.

Bill after bill, it just keeps coming out of the state house. Its feels like having a conversation with someone that is talking with there mouth full. A considerable amount of crap is coming out but nothing makes any sense.

Add this to the lake speed limit, trying to ban beer tents at bike week, exhaust noise testing for motorcycles requiring a tach being installed, when most bikes are manufactured without, banning access to the lake via public boat launches on a public lake. Are we really heading in this direction or am I dreaming, who would think these things are for the good of the state.

[BroadHopper]

I have kids and grandkids. I want them to enjoy the lake as much as I did, my parents did and my grandparents. The way things are going I am willing to bet my grandkids will not enjoy the lake. As with all greedy folks, they only care about today, to hell with tomorrow. "I'm not going to be here, why should I protect the future?"

[robmac]

I remember growing up my Dad telling all his children wonderful stories about his youth ( this used to cost 25 cents) and we could do this. Reading the responces about the old days and what folks did is great but I must agree that my daughter will never get to enjoy the lake like so many of us have. I am a newbie on the lake,I've been here since 74 and I've seen so much change and not for the good. Sorry Don for going astray with this.

[alsadad]

I find this business with the proposed Braun Bay rafting bill and the Gilford boat launch ordinance far too vague and, dare I say, subtle. How about we just lay all our cards on the table, pull out all the stops, say what we really mean, and unload every other cliché we can think of. I think the NH Legislature should consider the following bill:

WHEREAS owners of expensive waterfront homes pay exorbitant amounts of real estate taxes; and

WHEREAS said exorbitant real estate taxes contribute greatly to the public coffers and facilitate wasteful government spending, in addition to conferring an unwarranted sense of superiority on the owners;

Be it hereby RESOLVED that henceforth and forevermore the owners of expensive waterfront homes shall enjoy full and exclusive rights to the use of the state’s rivers, lakes and streams;

Be it hereby further RESOLVED that, except when they are working as landscapers and maids at the aforementioned expensive waterfront homes, all other people (also known as “common riff-raff”) shall be confined to their double-wides where they can kick the dog, spit tobacco juice and litter to their heart’s content.

On a more serious note, I am perplexed about the purpose of this bill. The portion of Braun Bay designated as a “No Rafting Zone” is already off-limits to any rafts consisting of 3 or more boats. Correct? This proposed bill limits to 3 the number of rafts consisting of 3 or more boats in all of Braun Bay. So logically the three 3-boat rafts referenced in the bill would have to be located outside of the NRZ. Correct? Now, many of you spend more time there than I do, but I am hard-pressed to recall any time when I’ve seen more than a few boats anchored outside of the sandbar/NRZ area. Is this more common than I realize?

Also, does this bill as written mean that boaters could form rafts in Braun Bay, each consisting of, say, 90 boats, provided the rafts are located outside of the designated NRZ and that there are no more than 3 of the rafts? So, if I go to Braun Bay with two friends because we want to raft, and there are already three 3-boat rafts in the bay (outside of the NRZ of course), we can leave and go somewhere else, OR we can simply join up to one of the existing rafts. I’m not really that big on rafting, and I’d have to get 2 friends first, but if this is permissible under the bill, then the proposed law seems ludicrous to me.

[LakeSnake]

Originally Posted by jmen24

Bill after bill, it just keeps coming out of the state house. Its feels like having a conversation with someone that is talking with there mouth full. A considerable amount of crap is coming out but nothing makes any sense.

Add this to the lake speed limit, trying to ban beer tents at bike week, exhaust noise testing for motorcycles requiring a tach being installed, when most bikes are manufactured without, banning access to the lake via public boat launches on a public lake. Are we really heading in this direction or am I dreaming, who would think these things are for the good of the state.

That's easy - people from south of the border

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by LakeSnake

That's easy - people from south of the border

As someone from "south of the border" everyone knows where I stand on the law that must not be mentioned.

It seems foolish to me to propose this Braun Bay bill because of the complaints of two people and write it in such a manner as to contradict existing law on rafting

Ditto on the Gilford measure on public boat ramps.

All these initiatives seem to have come from people "north of the border" you know the ones that in addition to paying taxes actually get to vote on who their representatives are and on initiatives?

[jmen24]

I can tell you that not many natives can afford waterfront property in this state anymore and the ones that had it will or have had to give it up due to over inflated property value. But, typically after selling they can then afford another home on the water, but they still cannot pay the taxes on it.

South of the border is possible, most of these laws are directly targeted at the Lakes Region as a whole though. I can tell you I have been thinking longer and harder about buying a boat and keeping it on Winni, gets closer every year to being like a movie from the 90's(name escapes me) that the government posts the scofflaw's picture on a game show and everyone goes out and hunts them down to win a prize. Maybe its time for a change of scenery, as I do not like what the scenery around here is changing into.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

PS: I've never been to Braun Bay before so as to notice all the Mayhem, but I intend to have a look next summer...just a LOOK, I'm not going to stop and anchor.

Not exactly words the bills proponents want to hear You can also check out the other NRZs above as they are nice places to swim....

Drop anchor and stay awhile. You can meet some fun people out there.

[Formula]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Not exactly words the bills proponents want to hear You can also check out the other NRZs above as they are nice places to swim....

Drop anchor and stay awhile. You can meet some fun people out there.

I just went through Brawn Bay and i do not see what all the fuss is about...I saw no boats rafting

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Formula

I just went through Brawn Bay and i do not see what all the fuss is about...I saw no boats rafting

So what would happen if a bunch of bob houses set-up on Braun Bay and tied their places together with rope?

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

So what would happen if a bunch of bob houses set-up on Braun Bay and tied their places together with rope?

I'm sure that if you start recruiting people to gather there in large numbers, party obnoxiously all day with loud music, pee on the ice, and leave your garbage behind, then it will just be a matter of time before you excite a bill aimed at that. Then the rest of your friends on this forum will be up in arms about our "nanny" legislature passing unnecessary laws that take away your freedoms, and they'll all be overlooking the real problem...you.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by elchase

I'm sure that if you start recruiting people to gather there in large numbers, party obnoxiously all day with loud music, pee on the ice, and leave your garbage behind, then it will just be a matter of time before you excite a bill aimed at that. Then the rest of your friends on this forum will be up in arms about our "nanny" legislature passing unnecessary laws that take away your freedoms, and they'll all be overlooking the real problem...you.

I see the good in things. Someone in the bob house is spending time outdoors, enjoying the lake. Spending money at local businesses. They are also likely socializing with other ice fishermen.

You must live a miserable existence. Watch out, the boogey-man is just around the corner ready to pounce.

Don't move to Alton. Those groupy pilots are just ruining things over there

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by elchase

I'm sure that if you start recruiting people to gather there in large numbers, party obnoxiously all day with loud music, pee on the ice, and leave your garbage behind, then it will just be a matter of time before you excite a bill aimed at that. Then the rest of your friends on this forum will be up in arms about our "nanny" legislature passing unnecessary laws that take away your freedoms, and they'll all be overlooking the real problem...you.

There are plenty of laws against bad behavior as you described. Many have said your description of the bay, as usual, is way over the top. The sand bar people use is NOT in front of people's waterfront homes.

So if you're wrong about the condition of the bay, and mostly wrong about the boaters that use it, and people's waterfront is not in jeopardy from these people's activities, what's you point El? Just another Gestapo activity for you?

[Misty Blue]

Before the Kona area (not the whole bay) in Braun Bay was a no rafting area there were a bunch of boats rafted together all packed in to the sand bar in Braun Bay.

Since the no rafting zone became law and the anchorage spacing was enforced we have the same number of boats (well almost) and now they are spread out of the sandbar area all over the top of the bay, even behind Glines island now.

They (the boaters) seem to want to keep out of the landowners way and still anchor in undeveloped areas when they can. I expect that they don't want to anchor in front of my house any more than I want them to do so.

I think that limiting access to Braun Bay sandbar will cause the boaters to spread out to other places where they will be even less popular.

I plan to be at the selectman's meeting next Thursday the 28th at 7 PM. You have to pre register if you want to speak prior to 4PM on Monday.

Be careful of what you ask for.

Misty Blue.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

I am on the lake front and have had plenty of issues with fisherman hitting my boats and docks by overcasting. (in some cases ripping my cover and vinyl) I see this as an inconvenience as being on the lake front. Should I complain then have a represenative draft a bill to ban lake shore fishing because I find this to disturb my piece and quiet?

My family owned lakefront property since 1892. We see lots of issues in front of the property, but we expect it. After all, the lake is a public park.
If we banned boaters from the lake then I guess folks that live next to public parks can ban baseball because it hit their cars and building. Ban basketball because of the constant noise from dribbling. Ban kiddie rides because of the constant squelling of happy kids.

OMG! I just found the next agenda with these folks! God forbid!

I just don't like folks who move here in the past decade tell me what I can and can not do on this lake. I've been here since birth!

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

My family owned lakefront property since 1892. We see lots of issues in front of the property, but we expect it. After all, the lake is a public park.
If we banned boaters from the lake then I guess folks that live next to public parks can ban baseball because it hit their cars and building. Ban basketball because of the constant noise from dribbling. Ban kiddie rides because of the constant squelling of happy kids.

OMG! I just found the next agenda with these folks! God forbid!

I just don't like folks who move here in the past decade tell me what I can and can not do on this lake. I've been here since birth!

Or, like the people that by next to Logan airport and then want runways shut down because the jets are loud. Duh!

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by Elchase

Let the people who live on Braun Bay have some peace.

I was unaware that anyone LIVES ON Braun Bay.

I was always under the impression the waters are owned by everyone in the state for the enjoyment of ALL...

If we want to carry out El's logic to the extreme then Lake Winnipesaukee is owned privately by the waterfront property owners and no one else is allowed...that would include island residents unless they also own shorefront on the mainland.

Let us waterfront owners have some peace!!!

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

Originally posted by Elchase


I was always under the impression the waters are owned by everyone in the state for the enjoyment of ALL...:

I also think this was El's position on that other law we cannot speak about. Can we say hypocrite!

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by gtagrip

Or, like the people that by next to Logan airport and then want runways shut down because the jets are loud. Duh!

And like the folks who recently move to Meredith and want the church to stop ringing the bells every hour. The church been doing this since the 1700's. Remember that El?

And the folks that moved into a development next to the Hudson Speedway and they wanted the speedway shut down because of the noise.

And the folks that banned the Pledge of Allegiance and prayers from schools.

This will never stop. We will no longer be the land of the free. We have lost our bravery.

[wifi]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

And like the folks who recently move to Meredith and want the church to stop ringing the bells every hour.....

The same folks that were pressing for the fire house not to blow its horn on fires.

Actually, its a great notification for non firefighters, so they can gawk at that unmentionable thing come out of the 'barn'

[Breakwater]

Lets look at the proposed law...

270:133 Braun Bay. No person shall form or allow the boat which he or she is operating or in charge of to be a member of a raft consisting of 3 or more boats in Braun Bay at any time when there are already 3 rafts consisting of 3 or more boats in Braun Bay. In this section, “raft” shall have the same meaning as in RSA 270:42, IV. Any person who violates this section shall be guilty of a violation.

It is my recoomendation, as a user of the bay, that we support this bill!!! Why?

As written, this bill seems to allow for three rafts of three of three boats which is currently illegal! It does not speak to any of the current rafting practices in Braun Bay! If everyone else (other than the first three rafts of three) continues to limit their raft to 2 boats and maintains the proper spacing, Rep. Patten has simply allowed more boats in the "No Rafting Zone".

My question for Rep. Patten is:

1. Do our elected officials and adjacent property owners remember the Braun Bay of the 1980' and early 90's?? It has come a long way. Maybe they should do their homework!

2.Which law do we obey? RSA 270:44 or the proposed 270:133

"RSA 270:44-Size of Rafts; Separation of Rafts and Single Boats. – Except as otherwise provided in this subdivision, no person shall, in a prohibited location or at a prohibited time:
I. Form or allow the boat which he is operating or in charge of to be a member of a raft consisting of 3 or more boats;" (allows a max of 2 boats)

Does she now intend to allow rafts of 3 boats?

3. Do you remember when Braun Bay was regulated like every other zone in the State where rafting had to be 150' from shore? After several hearings conducted by the Dept. of Safety at Moultonborough Academy, the administrative rule for Braun Bay was changed to allow anchoring w/in 75' of shore. The reasoning for this was the fact that the prime anchoring area abutted State property. This was viewed as a compromise between the competing uses of our public waters. A compromise that RSA 270:1, II and III declares.

270:1 Declaration of Policy. –

II. In the interest of maintaining the residential, recreational and scenic values which New Hampshire public waters provide to residents of the state and to the promotion of our tourist industry, and in light of the fact that competing uses for the enjoyment of these waters, if not regulated for the benefit of all users, may diminish the value to be derived from them, it is hereby declared that the public waters of New Hampshire shall be maintained and regulated in such way as to provide for the safe and mutual enjoyment of a variety of uses, both from the shore and from water-borne conveyances. Such provisions shall take into consideration the following: the variety of special uses appropriate to our lakes, public safety, protection of environment and water quality, and the continued nurture of New Hampshire's threatened and endangered species.
III. It is the intent of the legislature to recognize in RSA 270:42-46 that the cumulative effect of boats congregated as ""rafts'' differs from that of the same number of boats scattered and, therefore, requires specific appropriate regulation.

Let's pass this legislation and prove a point!

Sorry for the long post-

[lawn psycho]

Breakwater, thanks for the Declaration of policy. That is great info.

And you are correct that this bill is a reversal of the current Braun Bay policy. Someone raised this issue previously as well.

However, simply letting this thing pass would embolden other waterfront owners to think that they can draft a bill on a post-it note to their local rep and push these things thorugh. I beleive what is important is for people to write the committee and their local reps so they understand that rafting is not some evil thug activity by boaters.

Look at the vitriole from a poster above regarding "trash" in the sandbar. It's far from reality but you will get a non-boater committee member to get an image in their head.

We need to educate the committee so that when this or other similar bills get proffered, legislators understand the over amplification of issues from shorefront owners. Feed the committee a steady dose of the facts and it puts large holes in the sails of the shorefront owners argument.

[VtSteve]

Most that support this new Bill don't seem to know much about it, but the do like new bills

It seems that many of the people supporting new laws limiting access or activities on the lake are not only angry, but have some very prejudiced views towards a variety of groups.

I wonder how many people read this post, and thought "Hmmmmmm...."

"The sand bar sits in front of undeveloped land. This area is NOT on someones "front lawn" as some have claimed. Only on the busiest boating days of the year does the anchorage spread beyond this "non-developed area" where there are NO houses.
Carry on"

It would seem that once again, facts defy rumor.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Kind of like building a house next to Old Faithful and being P'd at all the people who come to enjoy it.

Tourism is the largest industry in NH.
Winnipesaukee is one of the largest tourist destinations in NH
Some people rafting are NH taxpayers
All people rafting are contributing to our economy.

Question: Does the propensity to rafting in front of a property area change the real estate value of that property?

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

Question: Does the propensity to rafting in front of a property area change the real estate value of that property?

I wouldn't think so considering there are "NO" houses next to the sandbar... I don't think the wildlife take assesments on their houses.. LOL

[NoRegrets]

I believe the reason some individuals love to have laws and control is to compensate for an unfulfillied desire to be something they are not! Instead of going forward and exploring the world, taking on challenges, or becomming constructive citizens they seem fixated on small issues and try to manuver politicians and local media to score perceived "big time" laws. I have not been impressed with by any of the control freeks that support non-essential and trival issues although it does give a good view of what is wrong with our country. These individuls must view themselves as the new breed of Danial Boones, Henry DuPonts, Fords, Mellons, or great industralists.

Keep up the good fight! Massachusett-e-s just did!

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

Question: Does the propensity to rafting in front of a property area change the real estate value of that property?

Let's suppose for a minute that it did. The sandbar has been used for many decades. If the argument were true, then the buyer got the discount up front. That discount would get passed along to the next buyer. It's no different then a person moving into a home on a busy street or near a highway.

[hazelnut]

Why is it that 2 people are allowed to derail yet another thread?

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Let's suppose for a minute that it did. The sandbar has been used for many decades. If the argument were true, then the buyer got the discount up front. That discount would get passed along to the next buyer. It's no different then a person moving into a home on a busy street or near a highway.

Your analogy is good LP. The problem is that the proponents are trying to create Winnipesaukee's version of a highway noise mitigation wall.

[Breakwater]

I agree. We need to put a stop to this. I was just on a late nite rant!

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

If only one resident has a complaint, to me that is enough to try to get something done. It’s unfortunate that it had to get to the drafting of a law, but to that resident it means everything in the world to them.

Say what?!?

What needs to happen is development stopped. Maybe it's those on the shorefront that should realize that they are part of the problem. In fact I'm sure we can dig up some old maps and prove that many homes are not where they are supposed to be or that they never properly aquired development or land rights.

Protect a natural and economic resource. Ban all future contruction, additions. No additional docks.

There. Problem solved.