Skydive Laconia?

[BroadHopper]

Those jets that the NASCAR racers come in, seems to take over the airport and fly in one by one. Maybe they are concerned about 'that' traffic. It is just a matter of curtailing sky dive activities on those weekends.

[trfour]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Those jets that the NASCAR racers come in, seems to take over the airport and fly in one by one. Maybe they are concerned about 'that' traffic. It is just a matter of curtailing sky dive activities on those weekends.

An earlier quote from Tom Noonan...
"As for NASCAR weekends, we mentioned in an earlier post that we have no intention of operating the first NASCAR weekend so that we can sit back and monitor the traffic. We want to do our own research on the NASCAR traffic before making any decisions on jump operation during such a reportedly busy weekend. Worst case scenario, we voluntarily shut our doors that weekend and go to the races ourselves. As a side note, our intended parachute landings over the course of a season expect to be between 1000 and 3000. The Deland Municipal Airport in Florida receives all of the overflow jet traffic and small aircraft traffic for Daytona NASCAR weekends, and the dropzone there does 80,000 annual parachute jumps by comparison. They do not shut down during NASCAR weekends and have never had an issue with NASCAR related air traffic. With that said, it certainly is an issue that deserves detailed analysis, and we plan to do such analysis before we make any decisions on whether we choose to operate, even if at a reduced rate, during the NASCAR events."

I could see maybe, that the LAA might want to add a clause in any permit issued, but to turn the Noonan's down altogether is ludicrous.

Round # 2 coming right up!

Terry
____________________________

[DailyWolfeboro]

I am a skydiver. I went through AFF and got my A-License and B-License at Skydive New England in Lebanon, Maine.

A couple points after reading through the thread:

1) Skydivers are generally fairly laid back people and they would bring good attitudes and revenue to the area.

2) I have jumped at a few different locations. Skydive Deland is at a small airport down in Florida. They have been operating for many years. There weren't any issues in regards to air traffic or incidents when I was there.

3) I think Laconia would be a cool place to have a dropzone. Seeing the lake when you are up in the air would be awesome. You would get some great views of the White Mts. too.

4) Skydivers are very aware of air traffic. No one wants to have a skydiver/plane encounter. That's not good for either party.

That's about all I have to say. Just wanted to put my 2 cents in.

[Pineedles]

Two cents? I would say that you contributed 1,000,000 times that amount to the discussion. For those of us who were very dissapointed with the latest ruling, thank you for your support. Viewing Winnipesaukee at 1,000 feet up, is a site I would like to see some day from a tandem jump.

[DailyWolfeboro]

Some Views of DZ landing areas. These are all from Google earth at about the same altitude.

As you can see, you have to cross taxiways and runways at both of the other places I mentioned before. It's like crossing the road. You look both ways, and make sure there isn't traffic. The light blue is the student landing area. Lime green is the advanced landing area.

Laconia:


Skydive New England:


Skydive Deland:

[Formula]

Tom,
I am not sure if this was mentioned prior...have you looked into the landing strip in Moiuntonborough on RT 25. I for one would love to have that type of daytime businesses in town??

[TheNoonans]

Greetings to all,

Thank you all for your continued support. In the beginning, Mary and I approached the LAA to bring a legal and viable business to the airport. It was our expectation that the board would work with us, not against us in coming to a mutually beneficial agreement. Obviously, for anyone following this thread and our proposal, that did not happen.

We never set out to become the poster children for airport access rights, but that is where this has gone. The wheels are already set in motion on a Federal level regarding the composition of the regional report issued and the decision made by the LAA. Suffice to say, there was certainly surprise on that federal level that the report was issued the way it was.........

As a side note, you may be interested to know that when the LAA finally requested that the FAA evaluate our proposal, the form they used was an application for a new runway.......and the evaluation was then made based on that form's criteria......(I don't ever recall asking the LAA to build us a new runway.)

The silver lining in the debacle that has become this flawed proposal process is that when this is shortly concluded on a federal level, it will ensure that never again will a federally funded airport be allowed to ignore the rules and regulations set forth by the FAA. It will become a precedent setting case that will be used across the country to ensure equal access to all aeronautical activities on federally funded airports.

That is a bigger victory that we ever set out for, we just wanted to skydive, but in the end if our struggle keeps the next prospective dropzone owner from going through what we went through, then it will be worth it.

We asked the LAA to work with us, and they chose not to. Now the issue is out of our hands and in Washington.

We remain vigilant in our committment to open Skydive Laconia and aren't going anywhere.

I am on a flight to LAX, gotta run. Namaste.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[trfour]

Although, it can be a tough sled. Believe me Tom, most of us were absolutely crushed and dumb founded as to where the LAA was coming from.

They are counted on, and as well as the FAA in this Country to know just and very well what is relevant. None of us needs or wants any more ineptness from our Government agencies, especially in these most crucial times!

They need to get their heads on straight!!!!

Thank you for your update Tom!

Terry
_____________________________

[pickwick]

~~~~~~~~~~

[Pineedles]

Holy erasure batman, I just looked below and Pickwick's post is gone. I'll erase my response post then too. Good choice Pickwick.

[Jonas Pilot]

I'm sorry Pickwick deleted the post. At least I'm not the only one who feels that way.

[TheNoonans]

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...848/-1/CITIZEN

The Selectmen are apparently going to decide whether or not to hear the facts of our proposal.

If you want them to hear the facts, or even if you don't want them to hear the facts, I would encourage you to email your Selectmen and let them know your opinion.

Also, if you feel compelled, offer your opinion on whether or not you think anyone is in a position to cast judgement on us without actually seeing a skydive onto the airport. If you think they need to see a skydive to be truly informed, let them know. If you believe that showing the Selectmen and the community the truth about the non intrusive nature of our proposal on the airport is a bad thing, and don't want the community to see how well suited we are to operate at the airport, then encourage your Selectmen to veto a demonstration jump.

Either way, let your opinions be heard.

citycouncil@city.state.nh.us

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[TheNoonans]

Well, I just received a call and was informed that the Gilford Selectmen denied our request to provide them factual information on our proposal. They are content to let their position stand.

No Skydive Laconia meeting with the Gilford Selectmen.

No Skydive Laconia "town hall" style platform to address the community.

Maybe they were fearful of giving us a community platform?

Why would that be?

If you separate Skydive Laconia from this for a moment and look at what really just happened, it's down right scary for a democracy. Elected officials were given the opportunity to educate themselves on something that could positively affect the entire community and they decided not to pursue that. And it was free, we were going to fly up on our own dime. If they are willing to do that to us, what else are they willing to do that too in the community?

Long after this issue ends, as a community you will be left to wonder what else is being handled that way.

We weren't looking to gain their approval in our request, we were just looking to educate them.

So as this evening comes to a close, now the LAA and the Gilford Selectmen have been given the opportunity to learn the facts of the issue and now they have both turned down the chance to do so.

As for us, the 15th is "FAA Day", the ADO will issue another report on our alternate landing areas. If it's the same people issuing the report without oversight, we expect the same result as before, if appropriate oversight is provided to the ADO, we expect a fresh perspective and a positive result.

Either way, we will be happy to have the report issued, as it will tell us if our next flight is the Laconia Airport or to Washington D.C.

Stay tuned.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,
Tom

P.S.- Thankfully the internet has a memory. When election time rolls around those of you that constitute the 3000 views this thread had in the last week, can cast your vote for or against this type of democracy. If you support this type of leadership, re-elect them. If you disapprove this type of leadership, recycle this thread during the election campaigns and remind the public how your current administration handled this issue.

[TheNoonans]

One last thought for the night.

A "Town Hall" style open forum isn't just the realm of the Gilford Selectmen. If you, the business owners of the community would like to learn more about our proposal and how we can bring positive economic stimulus to your businesses, we are happy to travel to Gilford and hold an open forum. If you are an Inn keeper or a restaurant owner and would like to provide us a venue to share the facts with the community, we are happy address any and all questions.

We'll even invite the Gilford Selectmen and the LAA. (We doubt they would attend though.)

It's YOUR community. You have an opportunity to be heard.

If anyone is interested in offering us a venue, please feel free to email us at the_noonans@yahoo.com. We'll put it in the papers and give the community a chance to voice it's opinions. You all have a voice and you deserve to heard.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,
Tom

[trfour]

They are so very hard and pressed these days! However, they may one day look back at some of their very shortcomings and reflect on that they could have served their communities better.

My sincere hope is that they will get a grasp and in tuned with the bears what have come out of hibernation ( all, and by and further ahead of themselves ).

Now, local government has another fight on THEIR very own and inept hands. Their very own version and vision leaves so much to be LOST!

It is HIGH Time for ( we, the People ) to get more involved about putting them where they seem to want to be, ( And That Is At Rest )! Please remember these Short Sighted elected folks and do away with them on the next, and in the ballet box!
Respectfully,
Terry

PS. Toy With US, if you will!
________________________________

[Happy Gourmand]

Tom,
Your persistence and tenacity prove that you can, indeed, fight city hall. As a non current commercial/instrument rated pilot, and former air traffic controller (class if '81), I have nothing but admiration for how you are handling yourself in this quest. Most would have given up long ago...as I'm sure the town fathers in Gilford wish you had.
Good luck in your continued fight for what is right. I can't vote in Gilford, but I wish I could.

[flyguy]

First I should state that I am in awe of Mr. Noonan's posts. I have never seen someone so skilled at innuendo, smoke and mirrors.

As repeatedly stated by Mr. Noonan, ("Teacher of Teachers"), this entire issue is NOT up to the LAA, the local operators, the Gilford selectmen, the town of Laconia, local residents, Winni forum posters, or the U.S. Parachute Association. It is solely up to the FAA. Why he spends so much time with not-so-veiled threats and political hornet-stirring, trying to get community support that he says he already has is beyond me.

My guess is that the Gilford selectmen recently decided- rightfully so- that there was no point in wasting everyone's time listening to the Noonans pontificate until and unless the FAA approves their second request. A wise decision. Why waste your time on something that may not happen?

Prior to making it's second ruling, the FAA opened this issue to public comment. I and many others provided input- most of it was negative. As abutters with a vested interest, the Gilford selectmen were asked to provide their input. They did not need the secret business plan to do so. No conspiracy here, either.

There are no sinister back door politics at work here. Everyone involved is just following the procedure outlined by the FAA. Get over it.

For the record, I have never said that skydiving was not safe- if fact, if you read all of my posts you will find just the opposite. My posting the examples of the Golden Knight drifting onto a flagpole and the other recent skydiving accident intended to demonsttrate that was that while it is rare, it can happen. In fact, it has just happened again: 1 Dead in skydiving collision. The point is that one can never say never. No one can tell me that one (or more) of Skydive Laconias customers won't end up in the middle of the active runway that they meant to land next to. But that's only one of a whole laundry list of dangers that this ridiculous proposal would incur.

Finally, I would encourage all to take some of the things you read here with a grain of salt.

Noonan, Jan 2009: "the Portland FSDO finished their assessment and found no reason that skydiving could not occur at the airport."

Fact: the FAA report stated "this proposed landing area would adversely affect the safe and efficient use of the navigable airspace by aircraft and the safety of persons and property on the ground."

Originally Posted by trfour

Everyone knows that Laconia Airport is FAA funded...

Fact: The only funds provided to the Laconia Airport from the federal government are those used for capital improvements, such as taxiways. Other than that it is self-funding. None of your tax dollars go to any of the businesses on the airport.

Originally Posted by TheNoonans

their (the LAA) bill payments come from YOUR federal funding. Your tax dollars hard at work.

See Facts above.

[RLW]

Sorry. I personally disagree with just about everything you state. One thing regarding the federal tax dollars and what you state is the ONLY thing they cover and that is the runways and capital upgrades. I'm willing to bet that is close to or if it isn't the largest part of the LLA budget. You have your so called business, let others try to build on theirs. If a problem HAPPENS then let the proper people take the corrective action.

[EllyPoinster]

Originally Posted by flyguy

For the record, I have never said that skydiving was not safe- if fact, if you read all of my posts you will find just the opposite. My posting the examples of the Golden Knight drifting onto a flagpole and the other recent skydiving accident intended to demonsttrate that was that while it is rare, it can happen. In fact, it has just happened again: 1 Dead in skydiving collision. The point is that one can never say never. No one can tell me that one (or more) of Skydive Laconias customers won't end up in the middle of the active runway that they meant to land next to. But that's only one of a whole laundry list of dangers that this ridiculous proposal would incur.

Did you know that planes occasionally crash while taking off and landing? In another era, would the notion of building the airport have been shot down because a wayward plane might wind up in the recycle center?

I have news for you - it's not your runway and it's not your airport. Did your mother never teach you to share?

[Steveo]

Originally Posted by TheNoonans

As for us, the 15th is "FAA Day", the ADO will issue another report on our alternate landing areas.

I thought the new report was due April 15th--any word yet?

[TheNoonans]

Hi Steveo,

Yes, the 15th was the day the report was scheduled to be done by the ADO. I emailed them directly on the 19th and asked for a copy to be sent to us directly this time.

In theory, it's supposed to go from the ADO to the LAA and then the LAA forwards it to us. Last time the "LAA to us" part was delayed over a month for some reason? We got the report about 5 weeks after it was forwarded to the LAA.

Hey, maybe the LAA is not "legally obligated" to forward things in a timely manner.....lol, I dunno.

Anyways, we asked the ADO to send us a copy directly this time so that we are not left to wait on the LAA again.

As soon as we have it, I wll post the results.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,
Tom

[superdawgfan]

But I do know one thing--I will never, ever do business with LakesRegionsAerials.com.

I don't know any of the individuals involved in this, but I find that the smarmy attitude displayed by Mr. Hemmel is quite distasteful.

Too bad for the entire region.

[Jonas Pilot]

... but I find that someone trying to force their way into a place where they are not wanted is very distasteful.

[riverat]

Oh I believe there are a lot more people who would like to see them in business than not. It would bring more people to the area and local businesses would welcome them.

[Jonas Pilot]

Maybe so River Rat , but the way they have gone about this has completely turned me off. Is this the type of neighbor you would like?

[TheNoonans]

... but I find that someone trying to force their way into a place where they are not wanted is very distasteful

Sorry you feel that way. Truth be told though, more people want us there than do not. What you are hearing is the vocal minority, people with vested interests in keeping the airport to themselves. The louder they get correlates directly with the ground they continue to lose. It's human nature.

Speaking of human nature, let me try to put this in perspective for you.

Back in the 1800s, my great grand parents arrived in Boston from Ireland. When they arrived, do you think they were welcome? I can assure that they were not. They were repeatedly told they were not welcome and told to go home. They refused to accept the status quo and stayed. They were then relegated to tenement housing and back breaking labor, because the Irish were considered outsiders and second class citizens. As my grand parents were attempting to seek a better life and leave the tenement housing for the blue collar suburbs of Boston, they too were again told they were not welcome. They refused to let the will of others affect their futures. My parents carried that resolve further, wanting yet an even better life for their children, and did the same thing. They refused to accept the will of others telling them they were not welcome in higher social circles. See the pattern?

It's in my genes.

Our cause is just and our resolve is unconquerable. There will come a day when this process reaches an end. I can't promise that we will be victorious, but I can promise that we will never lay down for anyone and we will fight for what is right until the last bell is rung.

There is only one person that will determine the outcome of my life, my future and my American Dream, and that is me. I apologize if that has inconvenienced a few people on the LAA.

We all have dreams we believe in and are told by others to quit. Some quit, others fight. Those that choose to fight can understand our resolve. Those that choose to quit will never understand our resolve.

"I am the master of my fate
I am the captain of my soul"

- W. Henley (from Invictus)

Tom

[Jonas Pilot]

... the American flag and the patriotic music playing in the back ground.

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by Jonas Pilot

... the American flag and the patriotic music playing in the back ground.

Do YOU have a problem with the American Flag Jonas Pilot...? Just wondering. NB

[Jonas Pilot]

It's very dear to my heart. I'm not sure which one I love more, the one that covered my grandfather's coffin, a purple heart recipient in World War One or the one that graced my father's coffin, a participant in World War Two.

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by Jonas Pilot

It's very dear to my heart. I'm not sure which one I love more, the one that covered my grandfather's coffin, a purple heart recipient in World War One or the one that graced my father's coffin, a participant in World War Two.

I am really moved by your post but.....I can't let this go. GAG ME with a Spoon Jonas Pilot. Do you actually believe anyone will believe your diatribe...you have shown your colors..and they are NOT the Red, White, & Blue. Your record is evident on this board. NB

[Jonas Pilot]

Please explain why you feel that way.

[Resident 2B]

Let me tell you all why I am totally unhappy with the actions of these local clowns that feel they own the airport and claim openly that it is self-funded.

I just Googled FAA Projects Laconia and look what I found:

Laconia Municipal Airport (Gilford) - Airport Terminal Apron
Rehabilitation
Total project Cost $835,420.00

Go do it yourself and you will find the same. This is American
Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 money, all federally funded.

So they are lying about the self-funding aspect of the Laconia airport. This is very clear.

I will be contacting my US Congressman and US Senators about how my Federal tax dollars are being spent to support this "private" airport. This is the land of the free, not the land of the privileged few.

How anyone can feel this has been a fair process is beyond me.

R2B

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Jonas Pilot

... but I find that someone trying to force their way into a place where they are not wanted is very distasteful.

Yea, that's what they said before women could vote and blacks had 'separate but equal' facilities.

The history of this country is based on people who had the courage and conviction to fight resistance and oppression.

Sorry, but your comment strikes a nerve with me and makes you sound rather weak.

[TheNoonans]

... but I find that someone trying to force their way into a place where they are not wanted is very distasteful.

You know honestly, we take everyone's comments here to heart and try to empathize with those that don't understand our position, but I agree with you brk-int, we don't understand this statement either.

From the beginning we have been open and forthcoming with every possible regulation and operating procedure that the FAA has set forth. I really can't think of how we could have gone about this any more passively other than just to walk away.

To understand the history of that statement though, you need to go back to the mid 1990s. At that time another operator approached the LAA for the same purpose, to open a dropzone at Laconia. They were met with the same resistance and were told the LAA voted "no", without doing any of the due diligence mandated by the FAA. It was a different time then, the internet and forums such as this were in their infancy, so the operators lacked the resources that we have today, and they walked away from the process. Consider even this thread if you will. We didn't start it. Someone else did, with a clear intent to try and alarm the community. Don't believe me? Anyone that has ever heard the phrase "A picture says a thousand words" only needs to scroll back to the first post of this thread to understand my point.

That set a precedent at the LAA I guess and when we first approached them, they treated us in the same manner.

For example, if you search the Citizen archives, you will see that the day we showed up to address the LAA in December 2008, the then Mayor of Laconia is quoted in the Citizen as saying the LAA already met and voted against our proposal. Before they ever even heard it and more importantly, before they ever contacted the FAA to do a safety study.

So its fair to say that since day one, the LAA has treated our proposal with complete disregard for proper procedure. They didn't want us there and attempted to stone wall us.

Then, instead of contacting the FAA in a timely manner as they were mandated to do, they created a Safety Committe, comprised of members of the LAA that had no background in aviation safety analysis. When we asked them to provide the aviation safety background of the Safety Committe, they stone walked us and said they were not legally obligated to provide us that information.

The "Safety Committee" stunt (for lack of a better term) bought the LAA about six months of reprieve, and when we didn't go away, they were finally forced to concede that they could not formulate a valid opinion and went to the ADO. They then submitted a "New Construction" evaluation form that had nothing to do with our proposal which further impeded the progress of this process and led to the current FAA debacle that is being sorted out in Washington as we speak.

Here's the thing, whether we are a good fit or not is a secondary issue. The primary issue is that the process that should have led to a final outcome shouldn't have taken more than six months. That it is now going on three years is a testament to the big government bureaucracy that exists today at the LAA.

The simple truth is that we were never, from day one, afforded due process. It has been a cat and mouse game of delay tactics designed to break our will. That is not the American Way and that is not what a federally funded airport should be doing.

Yes or no, skydiving or no skydiving, this process should have been handled quickly and efficiently. Obviously it hasn't. This should have been over either way in May of 2009. If the LAA had done their job, it would have been and we would either be operating or would have been told by Flight Standards that the airport is not appropriate for our purpose.

It really is that simple.

So, we were forced, yes forced, to pursue this just path, and we have. And we will continue to do so. If that is perceived by a small group of people that have ties to the FBOs and Bill as "distasteful", then so be it. We can't please everyone and we are confident that those of you that approach this process and situation with an open mind, will see that we are simply following a reactionary path.

My proof?

That email I just mentioned? Where the LAA manager sent out a "call to action" a week prior to the first meeting, but withheld that the airport already had all of our supporting data?

I have had that for over two years. Never published the fact that I had that email. Never intended to. It wasn't until the LAA quoted me out of context in their report to the FAA where they cited on this board that I said "a skydiver/aircraft" collision is simply not a realist concern, trying to paint me as someone who isn't safety oriented, that I finally published that email knowledge. My quote stands in context, that based on all the available data, you, the community of Laconia are about 100000 times more likely to have an aircraft to aircraft collision over your house than a skydiver/aircraft collision. The facts are out there, and they are indisputable.

That's when the dynamic of this process changed, thats when I decided to publish the existence of that email. And I have more. It seems the concerned citizens of the community really are interested in truth, justice and the American Way. Otherwise they wouldn't forward me these emails.

So Jonas Pilot, I'm sorry you feel we are being distasteful, but as the numerous supportive emails we continue to receive from the public continue to show, you are in a vast vast minor opinion on that one.

Blue skies to all and to all a good night,
Tom

[tis]

I don't have an opinion one way or another about this whole thing, because I don't know enough about it. But I can tell you one thing. I feel sorry for you going through all this red tape. What a job. I would be so discouraged. Government makes things so difficult. Why don't they just say yes or not???
How long have you been fighting for this? Ridiculous. And you pay their salaries!

[fatlazyless]

How's about the little airport up in Plymouth, NH, about three miles to Route 93 - Exit 26. It has a green grass runway, and to get a good look at the area surrounding the Plymouth Airport, it can be viewed from the parking lot up top, way up the hill at the Plymouth Wal-Mart. Driving up from Boston, MA, to Plymouth, NH, is an easier 1:45-hour travel than driving Boston to Laconia-Gilford because Plymouth has two Route 93 exits, Exit 25 and Exit 26 that exit directly onto Plymouth and Plymouth State University. Who knows, but maybe visiting skydivers would want to stay at the nearby (Exit 26) www.thecmaninn.com/plymouth/ or chill out at the new and nearby P.S.U. indoor ice arena (Exit 25), or go indoor climbing on a rainy day at the Rock-Climbing Barn (Exit 26).

Who knows but the Town of Plymouth might be welcome to have a skydiver center set up in their little college town, at their quiet little airport? According to wikipedia it has a 2380' turf runway, is public, and is owned by the Town of Plymouth. Plymouth has inns, restaurants, Plymouth State University and Main St businesses that all could use some more customers, so what's not to like for a skydiver center at their airport? The Rumney Rocks, a widely known rock climbing cliff area, is nearby and that brings rock climbers into the Plymouth area from all-over so probably they could be receptive to a skydiver practice area, too. The airport is situated at the southern edge of the huge White Mountain National Forest and within the Baker River valley.

www.airnav.com/airport/1P1 has a 2" color photo of the Plymouth Municipal Airport.

There's an old saying that goes....better just not to go where you are not welcome....so's could be that Laconia's loss could become Plymouth's gain?

www.plymouthnh.org
www.plymouth.edu/

[NoBozo]

Looks to me as though Avaiton Fuel (100LL) is not available at Plymouth. The nearest available 100LL would be Laconia, 19nm away. A bummer....not to mention a Short Field, and Soft Field in spring. Rolling resistance on turf is a lot more than on pavement. NB

[jrc]

This "better just not to go where you are not welcome" stuff is total crap. How do a few people get to decide who is welcome or not? I can't believe there are still people that think like this.

These people have every right to use every legal means to get their business going. Sure have arguements about the rules and safety and whatever else but to stoop to "not welcome' is really over the line. This should be a clean fight based on the merits.

I have no dog in this hunt. Ok maybe the extra air traffic over my marina will be distracting. I live near the grass airport in Pepperell and they have a noisy old drop plane.

[Steveo]

A question to the Noonans:

I would like to understand what the true motives are of the LAA, primarily from an economic position. I guess they are saying that this is purely a safety issue for them but what would be the economic effect on the LAA and the existing businesses there if you had your skydiving business along side of theirs. Or more important what do you think they think would be the effect. I believe most if not all actions are motivated by the almighty dollar, even political actions (just look at the monies involved in DC). So I have to feel that the LAA, et al feels they will lose money with your operation running; but how? I truly feel if they felt they would make more money with you there you would be there already. Maybe if they can get rid of you they can start their own skydiving business, I wouldn't put it pass them.

Just curious

[TheNoonans]

Hi Steve-O

I have no idea what the motivations are of the LAA.

But I'm happy to take a guess on the economic impact concerns.

They believe that

1) If we show up all the other aircraft will go elsewhere. They even believe that there exists an insurance policy that precludes jets from landing at airports with dropzones. It's all unquantifiable, but that's their concern. Jets and GA traffic thrive at other airports with skydiving. LCI will be the same. But the fear of the FBOs is that if we drive away other planes, they lose fuel sales. Our 500-1000 flights a season will generate more than enough fuel sales to offset any loss they might incur by the one percent of flights they "might" lose if we open.

But that's business. If our business model affects their bottom line it becomes there job to become better businessmen. Its a free market economy, survival of the fittest.

The reality is though, we will increase their revenues. Of the 2000 people to pass through our doors, how many of them could we direct to a scenic flight from an FBO after their skydive? Plenty. People that would NEVER bother to go to the airport on their vacation, will now come because of us, and we will spread that economic growth around. When most first timers land they are usually so jazzed that they want to go back up again, and of those alot ask as much about flying the plane as they do about skydiving. If we were there, both FBOs would have their flight schools book solid.

and

2) The REAL reason no one wants us there is because we will work there and they know it. The REAL FEAR in this process is that we will take over the airport. One of the FBOs told me once "I hear the radio over Lebanon, ME, up and down all day long, if you guys come here, the same thing will happen." It's not so much that they don't want to share the sandbox, they believe if we move in, we will take it over. When I countered that we had no intensions of taking over the airport, that we intended a healthy equilibrium maintaining a "Mom and Pop" feel to the business volume, he was shocked and in disbelief that we didn't want to grow as big as we could. He thought I wasn't being honest with him. The truth is, we know the level we want to operate at, to include an appropriate staff level, and we don't want it to get too big. We want to keep it personal. But he didn't believe that.

So......thats the real issue. They must have watched Fandango one too many times and expect Truman Sparks to fly in with a Cessna held together with duct tape. Thats not us, that's not our business model.

Speaking of economics, did you know that because the airport is federally funded, the hangars on the airport property can only be used for aviation related businesses? Thats one reason most of those 10,000sq ft hangars sit empty. Our business is aviation related.

But with the economy in disarray, and little money being spent in fostering aviation businesses, the airport is an FBOs nirvana. All the federal funding they need to keep the airport a gem, without any neighboring businesses to have to share the field with.

That's pretty much it in a nut shell.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,
Tom

[RLW]

Originally Posted by superdawgfan

But I do know one thing--I will never, ever do business with LakesRegionsAerials.com.
I don't know any of the individuals involved in this, but I find that the smarmy attitude displayed by Mr. Hemmel is quite distasteful.

Too bad for the entire region.

and for your post

[flyguy]

Originally Posted by superdawgfan

But I do know one thing--I will never, ever do business with LakesRegionsAerials.com.

Fair enough. Everyone in America is entitled to "vote with their feet". If you don't like the truth, feel free to do so.

On the other hand, I would hope you would have the cajones to provide your real name and the name of the business you own (you do own one, right?), so that I and my friends may extend you the same courtesy.

[SteveA]

I happened to be at the airport on Sunday. Wife and mother in law did the "Bi-Plane" ride. They "loved it" and the pilot is a great guy. He provides a great experience for locals and visitors to the lake.

As they started to return to the airport, they where called off because a pilot landing ahead of them did a "touch and go". The pilot said it was no big deal, he just circled and made a new approach.

During the 20 minuets they were in the air, two corporate jets took off, and another small plane landed. Seemed to me, and I'm no expert, that the staff at the airport were very capable of handling the various operations that were going on without any "drama".

I fail to understand why, if all that other business is OK for the airport, why Sky Dive Laconia is not OK? Private Jets, Pilot Training, Ariel Photography, Bi-Plane Rides, etc.

"Lions and Tigers and Bears Oh My" There is a lot more to the story we are not being told by the folks that object to Sky Dive Laconia.

And, the picture that is in the #1 post on this thread is plastered to the window at the airport, that to me is very low rent. The picture is a photo shop job of something that has never happened anywhere. It should come down. JMHO

As a side note, when my wife "Sky Dived" (is that a proper phrase? ) at Sky Dive Key West a few years ago, she took off and landed at a small airport. 6.1 miles from NAS- Key West. That base is one of the busiest military airbases in the country. They fly drug, illegal immigration and training sorties 24-7. PS.. they also do parachute operations on base.

I respect Mr. Hemmel, and wish his and all of the businesses that use the airport success. I just wish he would have the testicular fortitude to explain his "real" motivation behind his objection and take down that phony picture. The objections he has posted so far ... wait for it... "Just Don't Fly"... sorry couldn't resist.

Here's a pic from their flight.

[TheNoonans]

Well, we made it to New Jersey.......

At one of the busiest skydiving facilities in Florida, taxi'd out in the private jet past parachutes landing beside the runway and departed with parachutes still in the air and another skydiving aircraft in flight. No near misses, no drama.

We then came into New Jersey and landed at another incredibly busy dropzone with parachutes in the air and multiple skydiving aircraft in flight. Again, no near misses, no drama.

I flew right seat in the cockpit to try and empathize with the few pilots out there that seem so concerned about the "busy cockpit" and "inability to see parachutes" on take off and landing.

Before this trip, I acknowledged that I had no practical experience in private jets to justify my position, other than the dozen or so private jet pilots that I know that also skydive that have told me over and over again what nonsense it was that a jet couldn't land at an airport with a skydiving operation.

Now I can at least say that I have seen first hand what that process entails.

So what did I learn?

I kept waiting for the cockpit to "get busy" as we approached the airport and enter the pattern. And it never happened. The pilot handled his work flow without breaking a sweat, we easily spotted the parachutes on approach, and the landing process was so clean and uneventful, that I was left with nothing but a reaffirmation that my position was sound. The pilot walked me through the whole process and the reality, as I have observed and experienced it first hand, is that private jets are more that suitable operationally with a skydiving operation on the airfield.

It felt like we were landing in a King Air, but with more control, more maneuverability and the greatest cockpit visibility I have ever experienced.

The result of this experience?

It just reconfirmed that the only reason, let me re-emphasize, the only reason, they do not want us there is because they do not want skydiving to cluster up "there" airport and "there" status quo.

At the LAA meeting in December of 2008, one of the FBOs made a passionate speech about how complex the private jets were he flew and how incredibly dangerous it would be to these jets to add us to the pattern. At the time, having no practical experience myself, I accepted his position for what it was and just resigned myself to "agree to disagree" based on the evidence and input I received from all the other NetJet pilots I knew.

Today, I look back on that speech (I wish it was recorded), and honestly am dumbfounded that someone with that level of experience could stand up there and make such an address.

I respect the opinions of everyone in this process, and I readily acknowledge that one flight in a cockpit of a Citation does not make me an expert. But adding this personal first hand private jet experience to all the supportive letters from pilots that have stated without question that a private jet does not pose any additional safety issues to airports with skydiving operations, my resolve is even greater that this is not a safety issue, it is a "Not In My Backyard" issue.

All of the pilots that I have known and worked with over the last decade have all conveyed a common attribute, confidence.

Those are the pilots I know. Those are the pilots I work with. Educated, well trained, current and confident.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

P.S.- While I am polarly opposed to the way Mr. Hemmel has and continues to approach this thread and process, claiming he has all this super secret information that no one else seems to know about, and that he is crusading for your safety, I would like offer this thought:

After having viewed the photos on his website, I believe that Mr. Hemmel is an exceptionally talented aerial photographer and I would encourage anyone interested in that product to put aside their personal feelings about how this process has been handled and continue to patronize his business. Suffering a sacrifice in product value to make a stand, especially for us, is an admirable quality that shows integrity, but in the end, Mr. Hemmel's position is simply based on a lack of information and fear of changing the status quo, its human nature. Despite the fact that he, and a few others up there continue to prevent us from earning a living doing what we are legally and procedurally allowed to do, I wouldn't want it on my conscience if I thought this process was also causing Mr. Hemmel's business to suffer.

And honestly, I don't say that to gain any favor from him or from any others on the other side of this process, my conscience and my integrity are my guides in this process and I believe in forgiveness and empathy.

Anyone that knows me knows that I speak from the heart and that I am sincere in my request, please continue to patronize Mr. Hemmel if aerial photography is a service you are looking for in the lakes region.

P.S.S. - As for the photoshoped "Skydive Laconia" photos that are posted by the FBOs, that continues to give us no heartburn. 1) It is free advertising and there is no such thing as bad PR. And 2) One day, sooner or later, we will be showing up with the local and national television media with all of our supporting data and documentation, and those photos will make a wonderful backdrop for our interviews.

We never wanted to turn this into a national media event, if we did, we would have done that in 2008, but that is where the otherside has driven this process, so the longer those photos stay up, the better. We couldn't pay for better "Not In My Backyard" exposure. Here will be the integrity challenge.....let's see if they keep the signs up when the cameras start rolling ......

[eillac@dow]

Sure wish you guys were open, as I would love to give you guys my business.

My daughter's 18th d-day is tomorrow...cannot for the life of me figure out what to get. A good friend just said "how bout skydiving". So I ask and she says "Ya, I think that would be cool...I'll do it".

Of course my husband and son have always wanted to do it....but here is my problem....my son is only 15. I checked the Pepperal, MA location and you have t be 18. So my question is....where can a family go to skydive when one person is 15?

Thanks to all.

eillac (allie c)

[TheNoonans]

Hi Allie

In the United States, the minimum age for tandem skydiving customers is either 18 years old or the age of legal majority, whichever is higher. Basically everyone that skydives must be able to legally enter into a contract by signing the waiver.

Thank you for your support, we wish we were open too......lol. This process isn't going to hang in limbo much longer, and our patience is still fully intact.

In the interim, I can tell you that if you pick another dropzone to skydive at, you'll be treated great at any destination you choose.

Skydive New England (www.ugojump.com) just across the border in Lebanon, ME.
Skydive Pepperell (www.skyjump.com) just across the border in Pepperell, MA.
and
Jumptown (www.jumptown.com) in Orange, MA.

They all offer exceptional service and staff.

I have yet to skydive in Addison, VT, but I also hear that Vermont Skydiving in Addison (www.vtskydiving.com) also has some great views above the airport.

I hope that info is helpful. Enjoy your skydives!

While we continue to wait to open in Gilford at LCI, I continue to travel to multi-use airports with both jet traffic and parachute operations giving parachute operational safety seminars. Ironic, huh?

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[AC2717]

Went for my first skydive yesterday, it was AWESOME!!!!!!!
went to Skydive Pepperil
I cannot wait for Skydive Laconia to open, Only thing was the anticipation, after I got past that, everything else was the best feeling in the world

I highly recommend it to everyone!!!!!

[TheNoonans]

Congratulations!

I am thrilled you got to make a skydive and enjoyed it. (Did you happen to notice the name of the guy on the training video they showed you?.....lol)

I recently returned from the the midwest US where I was volunteering for a program called "Tandems for the Troops". (Yet another project that we were hoping to also bring to the lakes region through Skydive Laconia.)

http://www.fox6now.com/videobeta/4c4...ing-for-troops

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[AC2717]

I did notice, you were the guy with the beard right??
Nice out-takes at the end lol

I jumped with Keith Murphy (or Murray have to check on my cert when I get home). He was on his 13th jump of the day at 1:30pm WOW lol - wish I was him at this point. He was great, everyone there was great, and he had over 3,600 jumps under his belt since he started way back when

we did some cool things in the air and when the shoot opened he showed me how to control it and we glided around with some figure 8's and sharp turns and he told my wife where to stand, and he put us down right in front of her - sooooo cool. IN fact at first she had no desire and now she is just waiting for her chance to go (just have to have the funds disposable first)


I hope this gets through I want to be one of the first customers up over the lake!!

[superdawgfan]

Originally Posted by flyguy

Fair enough. Everyone in America is entitled to "vote with their feet". If you don't like the truth, feel free to do so.

On the other hand, I would hope you would have the cajones to provide your real name and the name of the business you own (you do own one, right?), so that I and my friends may extend you the same courtesy.

Thanks for your permission to "vote with my feet"; I've been waiting anxiously for your approval.

No idea what 'cajones' are; perhaps you mean 'cojones'--I guess this is just another example of you getting the facts wrong?

Yes, I do own a business. But since I am not obstructing another business from starting up and preventing the addition of jobs to our local economy, I don't feel the need to disclose the name of it. Nice try at intimidation though--that seems to be what you do best. Pathetic.