Marina for sale

[colt17]

Just saw this post on NH Business Sales website anyone know what marina this is??



Winnipesaukee Boatyard — Price Reduced
File #209031

Launch directly onto the open water of the largest lake in NH with no channels or bottlenecks to worry about! The Lakes Region is one of New Hampshire’s oldest and most popular vacation destinations with Lake Winnipesaukee being its focal point. 16,000 sq ft building which stores more than 100 boats in the off-season. New and used boats are sold as well as rented. They have a full-service shop for boat and motor repairs and a retail shop. There are a number of opportunities to increase revenues. Price includes real estate and inventory.

Price: $1,899,000

[VtSteve]

Here's the picture

http://us.businessesforsale.com/us/L...-For-Sale.aspx

Look familiar?

[fatlazyless]

Difficult to say.....maybe Trexler's.....maybe Meredith Marina....difficult to say?

[BroadHopper]

In the past decade, whenever a marina is for sale, a developer would buy it. Tear down the marina and set up condos. That is why it is getting more difficult to find a slip, even along the intercoastal.

[TomC]

how could anyone generate enough revenue at a marina in <6 months to cover that kind of purchase price ($2M)?

I don't know how you could make a go of it..

[meredith weekender]

I have the same view as Meredith Marina and the picture shown is definitely NOT Meredith Marina. Very curious though as to who it is, just because I am curious.

[sa meredith]

My guess is Meredith Marina...based on two things.
1. The gas attendant there told me two summers back, that many employees had heard whispers of the place being put on the market.
2. The ad seems to stress the part about launching into open water, with no channels or bottlenecks to be concerned about...and that certainly is the case at MM. Very easy place to launch from..no traffic of any sort, no hazzards, deep water instantly. Just a guess.
Also, the ad says they rent boats...and Meredith does indeed do rentals.

[Excalibur]

From the picture, maybe Mt Washington in the back ground and Round Isl. Maybe the view from the Gilford Town Docks

[Excalibur]

Are there any Gilford Island residents who may want to pool our money and take it over?

[welchislandman]

yes, might be glendale marina. They have had a few managers in the past few years...

[SIKSUKR]

That view looks like it could be from Glendale but who's to say that photo is supposed to represent that view?

[ishoot308]

I had talked to an employee of Glendale last fall and they were not sure if they would be back next year (2010). That place was managed terribly at best! It could have been a gold mine with the right management and help.

Dan

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by TomC

how could anyone generate enough revenue at a marina in <6 months to cover that kind of purchase price ($2M)?

I don't know how you could make a go of it..

Hi Tom;

The thing you must remember is most marinas store boats over the winter and it's not cheap. Yes, they are not making money on service or ships store purchases, but they also have limited or no staff to pay and no services like electrical and other summer time necessities, so it's really not a 6 month business.

Dan

[codeman671]

It looks like Round Island to me. No surprise that Glendale Marine would be for sale if so, I heard that they lost the Manitou line which was the only real boat line they had.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by TomC

how could anyone generate enough revenue at a marina in <6 months to cover that kind of purchase price ($2M)?

I don't know how you could make a go of it..

Partial answer, and no verification on numbers. Looks a lot like Glendale to me.
http://www.businessmart.com/business...-new-hampshire

Let's say you get it for $1.5 or so. Bank 60% of inventory sold. The $275 K cash flow isn't huge, and probably means that no higher-margin services or sales have been done. But it's an approximate 30% pre-tax return (cash flow is not net income, so that could also be played with.

Personally, depending on the real values, I'd take the inventory at 25% and write off the furniture and fixture value at the beginning. As it sits, $1.2 depending on surveying, analysis of potential ground contamination problems, permits, etc...


And this description will confirm, (I think).

http://www.glendalemarineltd.com/Rentals.html

[Pineedles]

If they store 100 boats during the winter and if you assume that the average boat is 22' and per foot charge is around $28.00 per foot, the winter storage business would generate about $60,000. That would cover about 6 months of mortgage and insurance costs. all your other costs would have to be earned during the boating season including the other 6 months of mortgage and insurance payments. Don't know how much shore frontage there is at this yet unnamed marina but it sounds like the developers may get a crack at it. Afterall, its apparant that the state doesn't want motor boats on Winnipesaukee anymore, so who would want to invest in a marina?

[Misty Blue]

I don't know where the picture was taken from but it has to be taken from the South looking North. In the top of the picture you can see a snow capped Mt. Washington with the sandwich range on the left and the ossipees on the right.

Misty Blue

[Yosemite Sam]

How about Silver Sands Marina?

http://www.nhboat.com/silver_sands.htm

[ishoot308]

"I heard that they lost the Manitou line which was the only real boat line they had."

They are no longer listed on the Manitou web site as a dealer... http://www.manitouboats.com/dealer_locator.php

Dan

[TomC]

the debt service on $1.5M @8% for 30 years is $11K/month. Then, as you say, there is insurance, utilities. Don't forget the waterfront taxes! Even if you take the somewhat favorable rate of 1% of the value, taxes are another $2K/month. The owner would be lucky to get 3-4 months out of $60K.

[4 for Boating]

Also have to agree that this is not Merredith Marine OR They are using a random photo of the lake that looks nice. Verdict still out on which business it might be?

[Merrymeeting]

In talking to a marina owner that I know, the winter storage business is one of the biggest money makers. There is surprisingly little profit in the gas part, unless you pump large amounts.

So, storage is a big money maker for the marinas. Whether it would be enough to support all the bills mentioned is another discussion.

[LIforrelaxin]

If I had to guess I would say this is Glendale Marine. The Building size is far to small to be any of the other Marinas.....

Now somethings getting mis-represented here.... the purchase price is indeed 1.9 million
However there is 400K in stock merchandise...... now the last time I knew anyone looking into buying a business was many years ago. But as I remember the 400K stock merchandise could not be rolled into the purchase of the business, that was its own seperate short term loan.

Hence the mortgage being carried by the new owner would be more like 1.5 million.....

now they show there sales Revenue as roughly 877K ....... which I would assume includes winter storage income and profits of 275K..... so they say they are opperating on 500K....

something seems very fishy here...... or this business has been in the hands of the same people for years and therefore doesn't currently have a mortgage on it......

[RLW]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

If they store 100 boats during the winter and if you assume that the average boat is 22' and per foot charge is around $28.00 per foot, the winter storage business would generate about $60,000. That would cover about 6 months of mortgage and insurance costs. all your other costs would have to be earned during the boating season including the other 6 months of mortgage and insurance payments. Don't know how much shore frontage there is at this yet unnamed marina but it sounds like the developers may get a crack at it. Afterall, its apparant that the state doesn't want motor boats on Winnipesaukee anymore, so who would want to invest in a marina?

That all sounds good, but I bet that the insurance for the storage and building would take about half that income.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

something seems very fishy here...... or this business has been in the hands of the same people for years and therefore doesn't currently have a mortgage on it......

It is most likely just someone listing a business that doesn't really have a whole lot of experience in buying/selling businesses like this, not likely anything truly "fishy".

I may call on this property tomorrow. My wife keeps telling me she wants me to quit travelling so much, this might be a fun change of pace.

[Pineedles]

Although no one knows which marina it is, we are generating alot of free publicity for the sale. May not be good publicity but we all know the the famous line, even bad publicity...........

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by TomC

Don't forget the waterfront taxes!

I don't believe they have any waterfront Tom. I think MP has all the frontage between themselves and the lake.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Excalibur

Are there any Gilford Island residents who may want to pool our money and take it over?

Hopefully the town residents can take back the docks that are rightfully theirs.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Hopefully the town residents can take back the docks that are rightfully theirs.

Careful, if the Town voters approve the proposed ordinance to restrict boat launches, the future owners whould tread lightly. If the "use" changes on the property, they could get snagged by zoning violations.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

If I had to guess I would say this is Glendale Marine. The Building size is far to small to be any of the other Marinas.....

Now somethings getting mis-represented here.... the purchase price is indeed 1.9 million
However there is 400K in stock merchandise...... now the last time I knew anyone looking into buying a business was many years ago. But as I remember the 400K stock merchandise could not be rolled into the purchase of the business, that was its own seperate short term loan.

Hence the mortgage being carried by the new owner would be more like 1.5 million.....

now they show there sales Revenue as roughly 877K ....... which I would assume includes winter storage income and profits of 275K..... so they say they are opperating on 500K....

something seems very fishy here...... or this business has been in the hands of the same people for years and therefore doesn't currently have a mortgage on it......

Inventory is an asset and could be rolled into the purchase. The main tangeable value of a business is its assets, in this case the real property (real estate) and inventory which I am sure is high because of leftover Manitou inventory. Being a business owner with commercial lines of credit the assets and AR are what is looked at as far as your borrowing power.

They do not own and frontage, this is definitely not one for a develloper. What would they develop? Someone mentioned Silver Sands, no way is this Silver Sands. They would be worth FAR more than that. The real estate alone that they own is considerable.

[Excalibur]

Why wouldn't a group of Gilford Island Residents purchase the property and make it a not for profit.

Selling shares to each boat owner who would like there boat stored for valet storage in the summer. Then create another class of shares for Winter storage. The corporation could then hire or lease a on site mechanic to maintain any boats needing service.

Glendale Marine serves many island residents with valet boat service and does not have fuel or there own docking service. They use a trailer or fork lift to launch the boats at the Gilford town docks. In addition a rental boat service and taxi service could be useful. To offer some type of island delivery service.

This would be a great opportunity to a lot of people who struggle every season worrying if someone is going to care for there boat the way they do with out paying so much.

[BroadHopper]

The Minge Cove Marina is a good example. The marina became a coop owned and maintained by island residents. The coop rents out the building and gas dock to a marine mechanic who sells gas and service the boats.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Careful, if the Town voters approve the proposed ordinance to restrict boat launches, the future owners whould tread lightly. If the "use" changes on the property, they could get snagged by zoning violations.

Bet the state will put a stop on that ordinance. They are launching boats all day at the Gilford site.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Bet the state will put a stop on that ordinance. They are launching boats all day at the Gilford site.

Legally, can the state do that? It would be nice if they could...and did....the number of launch ramps available to the public are shrinking! And since the state doesn't have its own public launch ramp on the lake, losing Ames Farm ramps would be a HUGE loss!

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

Legally, can the state do that? It would be nice if they could...and did....the number of launch ramps available to the public are shrinking! And since the state doesn't have its own public launch ramp on the lake, losing Ames Farm ramps would be a HUGE loss!

The state does have a public launch Ramp on the lake, it is out at the end of Long Island by Harrilla Landing. Most people believe this to be a town of Moultonborough Launch, but I believe it is actually a state launch.... unfortunately there is no parking....

Now on the flip side, I know this is something that the state is trying to correct on many of the lakes. Unfortunately the Areas to put in a good ramp site are few and far between......

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

The state does have a public launch Ramp on the lake, it is out at the end of Long Island by Harrilla Landing. Most people believe this to be a town of Moultonborough Launch, but I believe it is actually a state launch.... unfortunately there is no parking....

Now on the flip side, I know this is something that the state is trying to correct on many of the lakes. Unfortunately the Areas to put in a good ramp site are few and far between......

No parking is essentially the same as not having a public ramp.......

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

No parking is essentially the same as not having a public ramp.......

That's what I was thinking, kind of pointless to say there's a public ramp if there's no parking. Plus, it doesn't really help those of us trailering up from the south, in my case, Hopkinton NH.

[TomC]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I don't believe they have any waterfront Tom. I think MP has all the frontage between themselves and the lake.

Wasn't sure what marina was under discussion anyway. I've thought about the marina business several times (on a bad day at the office, who hasn't? ). I never saw how it makes much sense. The "off lake" outfits (such as Independent Marine) can do practically all of the same work (sell, repair, store, launch/retrieve, etc., boats) at considerably less cost and hassle than a waterfront marina. They obvioulsy don't have wet slips, that's about all they can't offer vs the on-lake establishments. The waterfront guys have the taxes, gas storage/envrionmental issues, shoreline protection act, etc., to contend with... That has to show up in higher prices, and consumers will go anywhere to save a dime.

I see a lakefront business as a tough way to make a go of it...

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by TomC

The "off lake" outfits (such as Independent Marine) can do practically all of the same work (sell, repair, store, launch/retrieve, etc., boats) at considerably less cost and hassle than a waterfront marina.

Could be some of the waterfront neighbors close by a marina probably wish the marina was not there. Better for the space to be a single family home or two or three or four? And, it seems to be a good question as to which assessed value, a home or a marina, would be higher in thinking on the property tax?

A gallon of gas weighs 6-lbs so one of those red 6-gal boat tanks weighs about 38-lbs, plus you must save maybe one dollar/gallon buying at a gasoline station, plus you can purchase a Laconia Daily Sun while fuel'n up!

Whenever I need some lower gearcase 90w lube or a fuel line gizmo or somethin ....I always head over to Wally World!

[tis]

It's sad to think that marinas are a dying breed. It is so much more convenient to have a marina on the water. Hauling gas is just not as convenient as driving up to the marina. The same goes for restaurants, how nice is it to sit and eat while looking at the lake, yet it is hard for them to be on the lake because of such high property taxes. Lots of people, individuals as well as businesses are getting fed up with paying such high taxes even if they CAN afford them.

[BroadHopper]

Back in the days, all the town owned ramps were free and anyone could use them. Even Glendale. The marina ramps were free and if there was a parking space so was the parking. The marinas in those days used to make a good business selling items from their ship store. As there were no West Marine online.
City of Laconia use to have two town ramps. One where the Water Works building is on Paugus Bay and one below the broadwalk at the Weirs.

Now with the exception of Alton, the towns have restricted the use or have launch fees. The marinas charge for launch fees. And parking is becoming a headache. Laconia no longer has a public ramp and Laconia residents are force to use other ramps.

[NH Business Sales]

Good morning folks. I am the listing broker for the opportunity that is generating so much interest. All I can tell you is that I cannot tell you much of anything. We are chosen for engagements such as this because we maintain the confidentiality of the business from speculation by competitors, vendors and employees. An interested qualified party will need to first complete our Confidentiality Agreement on our website, (www.nhbizsales.com ) and then provide proof of the financial ability to complete the transaction.

Sorry I cannot help, but to do otherwise would breach the responsibility I have to my client.”

[jack1706]

NH Biz Sales.......

Are you Kidding ??????

[Happy Gourmand]

.....just told us that he can't tell us!!!

[lawn psycho]

I don't know the first thing about daily operations of a marina business but looking at that NHbizsales website, I would love to own a garden center.

The $1.75M asking price may get in the way

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by NH Business Sales

Good morning folks. I am the listing broker for the opportunity that is generating so much interest. All I can tell you is that I cannot tell you much of anything. We are chosen for engagements such as this because we maintain the confidentiality of the business from speculation by competitors, vendors and employees. An interested qualified party will need to first complete our Confidentiality Agreement on our website, (www.nhbizsales.com ) and then provide proof of the financial ability to complete the transaction.

Sorry I cannot help, but to do otherwise would breach the responsibility I have to my client.”

What a joke, I understand confidentiality, etc. But why am I going to allow you information on my financial status and means, until I know what business is for sale. I believe this add to be clouded by to much mystery to begin with. That to start with, additionally one needs to know what bussiness is for sale to look into the right financial backing......

Why would I waste my time, until I knew what bussiness this really was......

[robmac]

I know that when my two partners and I were looking at Adams marine about 4 years ago we had to submit all of that info. I will tell you from looking at that it would be very tough to cover you expenses without both waterfront and docks. Gas barely covers having it, boat sales not consistent, storage, parts and repairs were your lifeline. Knowing marina owners and talking to them it's not an easy business in NE by any means.

[BroadHopper]

Says they can establish the business loans. WOW! I feel another FMR.

I couldn't get any kind of a business loan to buy commercial property last summer. Banks are telling me they no longer have loans for new business.

Just as well, after the deal fell through, I discovered the town said I had to connect to sewer about a half mile down the road before I can get an occupancy permit. Something that was nor disclosed during the preliminary closings.

Lots of shady dealings going on lately. make sure you do your homework!

[Phantom]

What a despicable piece of subtle advertising!!!!

NH Business Sales comes on here adds absolutely nothing to the thread other than declaring himself to be the agent and where you can contact him

Nice first post NH Business Sales ....... why not join us again when you have something to add to the party!!

[Meredith Marina]

Definitely not Meredith Marina. We're not going anywhere any time soon! Think spring everybody!

[AkwaMarina]

Maybe you can figure it out from the process of elimination. Defiantly not us.

[Pineedles]

I see nothing wrong with NH BIZ's 1st post. It was an attempt to promote his business and that was all. The topic for discussion was posted by someone else and all he did was to state his positon in the sale and confirm that he could not disclose anything about the seller.

If people want to continue to frequent good restaurants, bagel shops, fire engine dealers, and marinas, then I think you should give it a rest as far as criticizing a business broker. His website was informative and in-line with what he stated in his first thread. His firm's service to the Lake's community is needed, and I appreciate it. Some business owners are only exploring whether it is the "right" time to sell their business. NH BIZ lets them do that with confidentiality. There's nothing wrong with that!

[jack1706]

Then why add anything at all ?

they said nothing, contributed nothing , and we all know it goes without saying - that to complete the transaction financials would have to be submitted !

Give me a break !

saying nothing would have been the thing to do.

We'll know where it is in due time, I'm sure ...

[Island Life]

It has to be Glendale Marina because that's Round Island. I'm 100% sure. I can even tell you who owns each one of those houses.

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by jack1706

Then why add anything at all ?

they said nothing, contributed nothing , and we all know it goes without saying - that to complete the transaction financials would have to be submitted !

Give me a break !

saying nothing would have been the thing to do.

We'll know where it is in due time, I'm sure ...

Put my 2nd sentence and last sentence from my post together, and you'll have your answer as to why he posted.

It was an attempt to promote his business and that was all. There's nothing wrong with that

Please don't be offended by his post, its good marketing.

[fatlazyless]

Springtime is normally the start of the real estate selling season, from what I hear. The snow melts, the sun shines, and the buyers start showing up.

It shoulld be very interesting to see what happens this spring, and what happens with the stock market, which probably will effect the waterfront real estate market?

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Meredith Marina

Definitely not Meredith Marina. We're not going anywhere any time soon! Think spring everybody!

Good news....had me nervous here for a while

[VtSteve]

The topic and the questions appeared, so why not a broker? Heck, that's his job.

Price is down to $1.6 mil, so get ready.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by KarmaGirl

That makes it Glendale Marine. The current owner, Paul, is a terrible businessman and manager. The main strength of the operation is Gary Doherty, an awesome mechanic and sales person. With the right owner(s), Gary would make it a great business. If he leaves Glendale, I'll be following him!

That entire place has serious issues not just Paul!

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by KarmaGirl

That makes it Glendale Marine. The current owner, Paul, is a terrible businessman and manager. The main strength of the operation is Gary Doherty, an awesome mechanic and sales person. With the right owner(s), Gary would make it a great business. If he leaves Glendale, I'll be following him!

I think you just managed to have Gary fired, and you too.

Please be careful folks. Your bosses read these posts, as well as your spouse, Mom, Dad, and every other person who you think doesn't read these posts.

[Long Pine]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

I think you just managed to have Gary fired, and you too.

Please be careful folks. Your bosses read these posts, as well as your spouse, Mom, Dad, and every other person who you think doesn't read these posts.

I took her post to mean that she was a client rather than an employee and that she would be taking her business elsewhere. Certainly agree that if she is an employee, the post was ill-advised.

[granitebox]

I took it the same way, I took the following as following him with my business.

[BroadHopper]

I can remember to former Marina owners that were a pleasure to deal with. That was the original owner, Captain Goodhue, and Brian Moriarity, who sold it and bought Shep Brorwn's. I had issues with all owners after Brian.

I think a 'dry' marina can work very well with the right management. The building requires extesive repairs and the racks inside needs to be reconfigured for efficiency. The only other problem is the lack of day docking. When everyone wnats their boat at once, like 8 AM Saturday morning, there is not enough docking to provide that kind of service.

If something can be worked out with the town for good business and the building is sold low enough to allow repairs with a mortgage then I think it will be a success.

Otherwise sell the property to the Gilford Islands Association. They are enough of a headache as they are.

[Pineedles]

Thanks folks, yes I re-read the post and see the same thing. Sorry.

[tis]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

I can remember to former Marina owners that were a pleasure to deal with. That was the original owner, Captain Goodhue, and Brian Moriarity, who sold it and bought Shep Brorwn's. I had issues with all owners after Brian.

I think a 'dry' marina can work very well with the right management. The building requires extesive repairs and the racks inside needs to be reconfigured for efficiency. The only other problem is the lack of day docking. When everyone wnats their boat at once, like 8 AM Saturday morning, there is not enough docking to provide that kind of service.

If something can be worked out with the town for good business and the building is sold low enough to allow repairs with a mortgage then I think it will be a success.

Otherwise sell the property to the Gilford Islands Association. They are enough of a headache as they are.

What a nice guy Brian is! Do you know what he is doing now?

[BroadHopper]

He is retired and I think he is or was one of the selectmen. He was in the news a while ago about developing an island on Lake Wicwas.

He skis at Gunstock.

[The Watcher]

"What a nice guy Brian is! Do you know what he is doing now?"

http://www.modeltfordsnowmobile.com/index.htm

[tis]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

He is retired and I think he is or was one of the selectmen. He was in the news a while ago about developing an island on Lake Wicwas.

He skis at Gunstock.

I remember that. How did it all turn out do you know?

[DoTheMath]

I worked for Brian at Browns for a summer back in my younger days - one of the best jobs I ever had, and one of the best bosses... What you saw - and still see with him - is what you got, and no one worked harder in his company than he did!

That is a tough business to be in, compound it with a short season and a relatively finite customer base and you have a huge challenge. Aside of the product, service is key to keeping you afloat (no pun intended there btw... ), if you have great customer service, you might survive. People will go to a marina based just on service, just like they will leave one based on (lousy) service. Now, toss in the economy as it stands today - not a business I'd be looking to get into unless I had some big play money to back me.

And my guess is also Glendale - the picture and description don't fit anything else on that side of the lake. Unless the picture is a bogus broker pic, luring you in... and it is really buried a bit more than it appears...?