Non Resident Taxpayers voting in TOWN elections

[Argie's Wife]

Originally Posted by randalnh

Heaven - I agree that renters may pay some fraction of the taxes in a town, but it is not even close to the amounts that single family homes pay. Also, you have lots of 18+ kids living at home, voting and not paying taxes. I still think the tax system in NH is archaic and inequitable.

If that 18+ year old drives a car and registers it in their town in NH, then they are paying a tax.

There's more to the way that NH raises revenue than just property tax:

Interest & Dividends Tax
Inheritance and Estate Tax
Business Profits Tax
Business Enterprise Tax
Communications Services Tax
Electricity Consumption Tax
Meals and Rentals Tax
Tobacco Tax
Real Estate Transfer Tax
Timber Tax
Gravel Tax
State Education Property Tax
Utility Property Tax
Local Property Tax
Property Tax Rates

Source: New Hampshire Department of Revenue Administration (DRA)

[randalnh]

Slick - although you may be correct about feudal land ownership in England way back when, your ancestors most likely left England because they could not own land.

Argie's Wife - too bad we cannot repeal the property tax and just increase a few of the others on the list, like the Timber Tax or Gravel Tax.

It is still my opinion that taxing properties as the primary income for a town/state does not share the burden equally among all of the citizens. Although some tax might be justified on property, the level at which NH towns tax their property is, in my view, excessive. Funny how my assessed property value has gone down 30% in the last 2 years, but my taxes have continued to go up.

[TOAD]

Originally Posted by randalnh

Slick - although you may be correct about feudal land ownership in England way back when, your ancestors most likely left England because they could not own land.

Argie's Wife - too bad we cannot repeal the property tax and just increase a few of the others on the list, like the Timber Tax or Gravel Tax.

It is still my opinion that taxing properties as the primary income for a town/state does not share the burden equally among all of the citizens. Although some tax might be justified on property, the level at which NH towns tax their property is, in my view, excessive. Funny how my assessed property value has gone down 30% in the last 2 years, but my taxes have continued to go up.

Come on down to Massachusetts. Then you will have a "real" reason to complain about valuations and property tax! We are retiring to NH because we can cut our real estate taxes in half, have twice as much land, and 2X bigger house. In comparison, you already in NH have a real bargain as far as all taxes go.

As far as really "owning" any real estate in this country is a fallacy. Just stop paying your taxes on a property and see how long you own it. You are really only renting what you perceive to own from the government.....and that government is becoming more greedy and intrusive with each passing day.

[Argie's Wife]

Originally Posted by randalnh

Slick - although you may be correct about feudal land ownership in England way back when, your ancestors most likely left England because they could not own land.

Argie's Wife - too bad we cannot repeal the property tax and just increase a few of the others on the list, like the Timber Tax or Gravel Tax.

It is still my opinion that taxing properties as the primary income for a town/state does not share the burden equally among all of the citizens. Although some tax might be justified on property, the level at which NH towns tax their property is, in my view, excessive. Funny how my assessed property value has gone down 30% in the last 2 years, but my taxes have continued to go up.

That depends on where you live... that's not the norm for all towns. A timber tax or gravel tax increase would also put skids on new building or renovations... Do you really want a state income tax and/or sales tax?

[Yankee]

I apologize for my absence in this debate. It was not my intent to add to this thread and not be active in the discussion. Some of you have said that I have made generalizations and have come on too strong. IMO of course completely disagree with you.

The proponents of this debate are missing a vital fact: Voting is a right not a privilege. So when I say that you do not live here, you do not have family here, you do not raise your children here, you do not earn a living here, you have no stake in the community other than your vacation property I say so without malice. And those are not a generalizations, or coming on too strong, they are facts.

Let me inform you of the slippery slope that you are treading, by relating recent legislation that will allow me to draw a parallel to this debate. Many of proponents of HB 847 are non-residents that used their $$ and influence to get that law enacted. I ask you, now that this precedence has been set, what's next on their agenda? Where's that slippery slope I'm talking about? I'll tell you: Next your boat will be too big, it has too many engines, the speed limit is still too high, power boating will be limited to only certain times of the day and to certain places on the lake, etc...I could go on but I think that you get my point.

Back to this discussion, let's say that non-residents are allowed to vote in local elections. What positions/seats do you propose? BTW they differ from town to town. And after that, since non-residents can vote locally, why not for their state representative? And then since they can vote for their state rep, why not for the US congressional/senate and governor's seats?

I never thought that I be saying this, but I agree with Bear Islander. If it is so important to you that you must have a say in the local and state affairs here in NH, denounce your current state affiliation and move here to NH.

It's a privilege to own vacation property here in the lakes region or anywhere else, it is not anyone's right. The same goes for your franchise to vote.

[jmen24]

randalnh, increasing the the Timber tax and Gravel tax to offset current property taxes would require the complete destruction of this state in order to fund. It would require a vast amount of timber and gravel to be harvested from the area to generate the revenue or it would require such a high tax that these industries would go away from this state completly, then where do we go to get the money.

I have said it before, but simply building a structure within a state should not afford you the ability to have the same rights as the resident citizens of the state. If you want the ability to take advantage of the lower costs of recreating in the state or would like to be able to stand up and vote, then you need to change your residency. It is a matter of what is more important to you, having a say in the town you live in and your children go to school in or a vote on how the taxes on your vacation property are spent.

As far as the argument of what if the tourist pull up and leave, is a funny one. Where are they going to go? Think our taxes are bad, go to Vermont or Maine and see how that works out for you. Folks could also go the border states to the south to vacation, but we all know why that is off the table.

Anyway, you should have the ability to stand up and voice your concerns to the town. I know New London does this and they typically have a packed house for this meeting, which takes place the week prior to town meeting. Granted the lakeside community on Sunapee is a very different crowd than that of Winni (not slighting anyone, but it is true, as all communities around water bodies are), so it really comes down to how important these issues really are to you as a property owner, if you are not willing to voice your opinion than you have no right to complain, if you are than keep at it and know that you are trying.

Any smart community is not going to allow a small group of people to completely change the way of life in a town, if they do, than it is their own fault and I am not going to feel bad for them.

But remember folks, most were privy to the information of property taxes prior to purchasing or building a home in the area, the time to consider the ramifications of this has long passed. For those that are being taxed out of a property that has been held in the family for generations have only the people in the forementioned group to blame, your neighbors. I have already talked on this point, which is considerably deeper than the discussion at hand.

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by jmen24

randalnh, increasing the the Timber tax and Gravel tax to offset current property taxes would require the complete destruction of this state in order to fund. It would require a vast amount of timber and gravel to be harvested from the area to generate the revenue or it would require such a high tax that these industries would go away from this state completly, then where do we go to get the money.

I have said it before, but simply building a structure within a state should not afford you the ability to have the same rights as the resident citizens of the state. If you want the ability to take advantage of the lower costs of recreating in the state or would like to be able to stand up and vote, then you need to change your residency. It is a matter of what is more important to you, having a say in the town you live in and your children go to school in or a vote on how the taxes on your vacation property are spent.

As far as the argument of what if the tourist pull up and leave, is a funny one. Where are they going to go? Think our taxes are bad, go to Vermont or Maine and see how that works out for you. Folks could also go the border states to the south to vacation, but we all know why that is off the table.

Anyway, you should have the ability to stand up and voice your concerns to the town. I know New London does this and they typically have a packed house for this meeting, which takes place the week prior to town meeting. Granted the lakeside community on Sunapee is a very different crowd than that of Winni (not slighting anyone, but it is true, as all communities around water bodies are), so it really comes down to how important these issues really are to you as a property owner, if you are not willing to voice your opinion than you have no right to complain, if you are than keep at it and know that you are trying.

Any smart community is not going to allow a small group of people to completely change the way of life in a town, if they do, than it is their own fault and I am not going to feel bad for them.

But remember folks, most were privy to the information of property taxes prior to purchasing or building a home in the area, the time to consider the ramifications of this has long passed. For those that are being taxed out of a property that has been held in the family for generations have only the people in the forementioned group to blame, your neighbors. I have already talked on this point, which is considerably deeper than the discussion at hand.

Well said Jmen24.