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Old 03-22-2010, 05:48 PM   #1
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Is the marina plan dead. Seems like a marina will yield larger and quicker cash than a restaurant. It still amazes me that all that water front is still vacant.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:04 AM   #2
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Default Dollars and Cents

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Is the marina plan dead. Seems like a marina will yield larger and quicker cash than a restaurant. It still amazes me that all that water front is still vacant.
I can't imagine how being on the waterfront would pay off for a restaurant in that location.

Marina perhaps but there are a lot of slips for rent or sale out there. And with the permitting process...
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:13 PM   #3
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I can't imagine how being on the waterfront would pay off for a restaurant in that location. Marina perhaps but there are a lot of slips for rent or sale out there. And with the permitting process...
Had you ever been to the Laconia Burger King? It had it's own dock with slips for about two dozen boats, tables with umbrellas and it's own sandy beach with plenty of parking on both sides of the restaurant.

In the Spring, Summer and Fall, boaters would flock and dock there and grab a quick lunch with their friends before before heading back out for more fun on the lake. Families would drive there and grab a lunch and sit on the beach. In the winter snowmobilers and cross country skiers would also stop there.

In short, business was good there but not profitable enough with a dollar menu that has your customers spending on average $5.00 and an ever rising term of lease.

On the other hand a place like Panera which garners on average $15.00 per customer, not counting what they grab to go from the bakery, would easily turn a handsome profit after buying the property.

Ask anyone who frequents the Concord Panera which is landlocked and has a huge parking problem; it does a very, very good business. It is always packed in there.
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:25 PM   #4
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If it was my property, I would try for a condo marina. 52 slips at even a low-ball $50,000 per slip is $2.6 million. It would take a lot of Panera bread to make that kind of money that fast. (i love Panera, we have two near my house)

Now I don't think the state should allow a marina that big to be built, but that's a politcal opinion. From a purely financial point of view it hards to imagine a more lucrative development.
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:27 PM   #5
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An ideal use for the property would be to use 75% of the building for a Panera Bread and the remaining 25% for a FIVE Guys Burger Shop. Just drop the docks back in the water and you'll be an instant success!
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:11 PM   #6
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Love Five Guy Burgers.
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:03 PM   #7
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... Just drop the docks back in the water and you'll be an instant success!
When I used to go to that BK, it was usually by boat, for breakfast. The lake could use a couple more boat-to-breakfast places. Panera would certainly be good for that.
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:26 PM   #8
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Thumbs up Five Guys

Everywhere Five Guys opens a store....their hamburgers are rated#1 by the local critics.....the Murrel family had the right idea when they started their first restaurants in the Alexandria Virginia area and when they started franchising their concept and brand....their requirement is that the franchisee open FIVE stores in an open geographic area...in high traffic areas like strip malls and preferably corner exposures....or food courts in large malls. I doubt that this area would support Five Five Guys....They will open 200 new stores in 2010 and their Boston stores are the Number One Hamburgers in their market. The burgers are fabulous...their fries are fresh and delicious (a small fries will easily feed two appetites)....and the peanuts are great for the wait.
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:49 PM   #9
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I was in Richmond, Va. over the weekend and visited a Five Guys for the first time.

WOW! What a great idea.

Real burgers, fresh never frozen, fresh cut potatoes for french fries done in pure peanut oil. You name it and they have it for toppings, at no extra charge, including grilled onions and grilled mushrooms. Fresh lettuce leaves not shreaded is also available as a topping. A small order of fries would easily feed two to four people, and they were great!

A franchise in the lakes area, with the five stores that I think are required, would do well as long as they had to right locations for on season and off season. One in Meredith, one on the Weirs, one in downtown Laconia, one in Wolfeboro and one in Alton/Gillford would work. Mike D's and BK would be ghost towns.

I hear they have a few stores in the North Shore area of Mass.

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Old 03-23-2010, 05:58 PM   #10
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There is at least one Five guys on Amherst St in Nashua
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:36 PM   #11
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Been there, done that, even got the T-shirt great burgers
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:34 PM   #12
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Default Five Guys

Went to the one on Willow St. in Manchester. Looking into getting a francise and possibly open near Weirs. Right now, leases are high and commercial properties are high as well. To float a business year round requires careful planning. Especially with the economy today.
The BK property will be ideal but as stated above the cost is to prohibitive for a seasonal restuarant business.
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:20 PM   #13
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Went to the one on Willow St. in Manchester. Looking into getting a francise and possibly open near Weirs. Right now, leases are high and commercial properties are high as well. To float a business year round requires careful planning. Especially with the economy today.
The BK property will be ideal but as stated above the cost is to prohibitive for a seasonal restuarant business.
BTW, I love Five Guys. Before I started using BWI, I always flew though Dulles and ate at 5 Guys- love it. There is one in Murrell's Inlet in SC (where we stay for Myrtle Beach Bikeweek), so I can't wait!
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:13 PM   #14
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Had you ever been to the Laconia Burger King? It had it's own dock with slips for about two dozen boats, tables with umbrellas and it's own sandy beach with plenty of parking on both sides of the restaurant.

In the Spring, Summer and Fall, boaters would flock and dock there and grab a quick lunch with their friends before before heading back out for more fun on the lake. Families would drive there and grab a lunch and sit on the beach. In the winter snowmobilers and cross country skiers would also stop there.

In short, business was good there but not profitable enough with a dollar menu that has your customers spending on average $5.00 and an ever rising term of lease.

On the other hand a place like Panera which garners on average $15.00 per customer, not counting what they grab to go from the bakery, would easily turn a handsome profit after buying the property.

Ask anyone who frequents the Concord Panera which is landlocked and has a huge parking problem; it does a very, very good business. It is always packed in there.
Sorry, I respectfully disagree with your assessment of that property and the restaurant business in general around the Lake. In season weeks and some off season weekends are a beautiful thing for restaurant owners around here, but most will tell you there is no flocking.

IMO, the added costs of taxes and mortgage payments for a waterfront restaurant cannot be borne in our short season.
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Old 03-24-2010, 01:17 AM   #15
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Sorry, I respectfully disagree with your assessment of that property and the restaurant business in general around the Lake. In season weeks and some off season weekends are a beautiful thing for restaurant owners around here, but most will tell you there is no flocking.

IMO, the added costs of taxes and mortgage payments for a waterfront restaurant cannot be borne in our short season.
My comments were made specifically about the Burger King in Laconia and I made no comments whatsoever regarding, "the restaurant business in general around the Lake."

That being said, when you say, "IMO, the added costs of taxes and mortgage payments for a waterfront restaurant cannot be borne in our short season." Are you saying that there are no successful waterfront restaurants on Winnipesaukee?
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Old 03-24-2010, 05:18 AM   #16
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My comments were made specifically about the Burger King in Laconia and I made no comments whatsoever regarding, "the restaurant business in general around the Lake."

That being said, when you say, "IMO, the added costs of taxes and mortgage payments for a waterfront restaurant cannot be borne in our short season." Are you saying that there are no successful waterfront restaurants on Winnipesaukee?
There are plenty of pre-existing restaurants that are on the lake and are successful, but I can't think of many (or any) stand-alone restaurants that have been redeveloped as this site requires.

I guess my point was that if Panera were to open a restaurant in the Lakes region, they would likely look at sites that are not waterfront. Assuming a property cost delta of at least plus $1 Million and an increased tax burden of $3K a month, Winni traffic would have to support an additional $10-12K/month. That does not take into consideration the year round maintenance costs on the currently unprotected docks or the nightmarish DES process to build there.

I am not saying someone won't bite on that property as a restaurant, but I sure would not.
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Old 03-24-2010, 11:56 AM   #17
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I think their opening one like 4 miles down the street from me in Mass. Drove by with the wife a few weeks ago and she commented she had heard of the place and said their supposed to be good. I'll have to check again but I think it was 5 guys. In Natick for anyone familiar with the area.
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Old 03-24-2010, 12:29 PM   #18
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yup...they opened up a five guys down here in my town in Mass. Sorry but I was not impressed. Over ten bucks for a soda, fries and cheeseburger? I think not. Wendy's is only a block away. I'll go there and save some money.
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Old 03-24-2010, 01:46 PM   #19
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The wife and I have been to the 5 Guys in Manchester for lunch a couple of times now. We get 2 cheeseburgers, a small fry and 2 med drinks for $15 including tax. Not bad in my opinion.
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Old 03-24-2010, 01:50 PM   #20
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I think their opening one like 4 miles down the street from me in Mass. Drove by with the wife a few weeks ago and she commented she had heard of the place and said their supposed to be good. I'll have to check again but I think it was 5 guys. In Natick for anyone familiar with the area.
If you're talking about the one next to Panera in Natick then, yes, it's a 5 Guys. Drove by a couple weeks ago.
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:01 PM   #21
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There are plenty of pre-existing restaurants that are on the lake and are successful, but I can't think of many (or any) stand-alone restaurants that have been redeveloped as this site requires.

I guess my point was that if Panera were to open a restaurant in the Lakes region, they would likely look at sites that are not waterfront. Assuming a property cost delta of at least plus $1 Million and an increased tax burden of $3K a month, Winni traffic would have to support an additional $10-12K/month. That does not take into consideration the year round maintenance costs on the currently unprotected docks or the nightmarish DES process to build there.

I am not saying someone won't bite on that property as a restaurant, but I sure would not.

All good points and although I agree with your assessment, I would still love to see a Panera open there or for that matter anywhere in the Lakes Region.
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Old 03-27-2010, 06:24 AM   #22
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All good points and although I agree with your assessment, I would still love to see a Panera open there or for that matter anywhere in the Lakes Region.
Paul, I agree completely. I would love to see a Panera (and 5 Guys) in the area!! Are Paneras franchises or all company stores?
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Old 03-30-2010, 01:56 PM   #23
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... with plenty of parking on both sides of the restaurant.....
That is one of the problems, it is two different pieces of property with some animosity between the owners.

OTOH: went to the 5 guys at Patriot Place a couple of weks ago and loved the burgers. A bit pricy but far better than a Wendy's or McD. (No FLL, 5 guys doesn't have a dollar menu )
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Old 03-31-2010, 03:46 PM   #24
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I had never heard of "Five Guys Burgers and Fries" until reading this thread..so I took a drive up to Manchester this afternoon. Holy Bacon Burger Batman!!!!
I do agree with the one comment that it is a touch pricey for fast food (tough / impossible to get out of there for under $10), but what a burger...and the fries? Possibly the best since the curley Qs at Skips in Merrimack, MA.
Great, great fries...and the burgers...sort of like you made when you first started to cook. Pounding out the burger by hand, just barely round, and then cooked until the edges were charcoal. Not at all your fancy restarant style burger, not all thick and running with juice...more like your fat uncle Joe cooked on his charcoal grill in the back yard. Every patty well done. A true hamburger/cheeseburger/bacon burger. Nothing at all, at all, at all, at all like a Wendy's/McDs/ BK burger. Not even close.

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Old 03-31-2010, 03:49 PM   #25
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I had never heard of "Five Guys Burgers and Fries" until reading this thread..so I took a drive up to Manchester this afternoon. Holy Bacon Bacon Burger Batman!!!!
Yeah, 5 Guys is the bomb. I was at the Amherst street location yesterday. Did you get the Cajun fries or regular? I'm a big fan of the cajun style.
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:11 AM   #26
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Default Skip's in Merrimack MA

Wow....memories! I wonder how many forum members have enjoyed a Skip's burger?
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Old 04-02-2010, 10:48 AM   #27
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We are slipping off topic here...but just to respond...
Brk-Int, I got the regular fries (not cajun), and what great fries they were...real potatoe taste. Fantastic...loaded them up with vinager and ketchup. I have no doubt Five Guys would do well wherever they open up, but the old BK location...maybe not so much. A little too "seasonal"...although imagine being able to pull the boat in there, and have it walked right down to the dock. THAT would be something. I think a Five Guys would do very well mixed in with the other spots right off exit 20, in Tilton.
Phantom...I remember going to Skips with my family as a young child in the 70's. And then, as a teenager in the 80's, on our way to the beach. I then took a 12/14 year break, never going. But returned to find it exactly as I remembered it. What a great spot for a quick lunch...plenty of room outside on the lawn to hang out, and let the kids run wild (if you have kids).
Just remember to tell them what you want on the burger...if you don't say anything, it comes out with Mayo, lettuce, tomatoe. Strange...mayo??? But that's how they do it.
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Old 04-05-2010, 08:51 AM   #28
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Ok now I didn't know anything about 5 guys until this thread. Went to the Manch one last week and while it was nice fresh food, I thought almost $9 for just a cheeseburger and fries was very expensive. Nice fresh made burger and I do really like the fresh cut fries. 10 people in the grill area making the food. Not quick for me either. Went before 11:30 am and waited about 10 minutes. However, I will go back.
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Old 04-05-2010, 09:57 AM   #29
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Well since we are totally off topic...

Friends have been raving about Five guys and this thread is positive as well so I had to try it.

Ok what am I missing? A decent hamburger and fries, so what? It's not the best hamburger or fries I ever had and it's not a bargain. Sure I might go again but I wouldn't go out of my way to go there.
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Old 04-05-2010, 11:11 AM   #30
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Default 5 guys...

I agree with JRC... saw the long lines at the one in Nashua and wondered what we were missing out on... so went one night and had a good burger but a bit on the pricey side and table/seating was not so good...

Yes, much better than McD's, BK, or Wendy's... but not better than any of the locally owned spots where you can get a nice table and relax (and order beer too) for about the same price...

PIG
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Old 04-05-2010, 12:09 PM   #31
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Default Off topic again.

Those who like 5 Guys and don't mind the price..............

Try T-Bones next to the Burger King property. They have awesome burgers at reasonable prices. And have a brew with it!

Those 55+ baby boomers, ask for the 55+ payback card. 'Frequent Eater card'. There is even a 55+ menu!
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Old 04-05-2010, 01:30 PM   #32
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Those who like 5 Guys and don't mind the price..............

Try T-Bones next to the Burger King property. They have awesome burgers at reasonable prices. And have a brew with it!

Those 55+ baby boomers, ask for the 55+ payback card. 'Frequent Eater card'. There is even a 55+ menu!
I agree with you about TBones burgers. Unreal. My favorite is the MAF burger.
But it's just different. TBones is great for a nice thick, cooked the way you want it burger. And all of their burgers are fantastic.
But Five Guys is the true, cooked in your back yard on a charcoal grille, type burger. Nothing fancy about them. I view them as two very different things.
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Old 04-05-2010, 03:01 PM   #33
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Default maybe I need to go again..

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Well since we are totally off topic...

Friends have been raving about Five guys and this thread is positive as well so I had to try it.

Ok what am I missing? A decent hamburger and fries, so what? It's not the best hamburger or fries I ever had and it's not a bargain. Sure I might go again but I wouldn't go out of my way to go there.
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We have Five Guys here. Had heard a lot about it, so went the Saturday after Thanksgiving enroute to take our grandson to the airport-- not a lot of time to spend-- but I wasn't impressed. I seem to be in the minority with friends here, too, but the hamburger and accompaniments were slammed together and just a bunch of fries in a paper bag (?). The seating was crowded, too, and--of course--the place was a zoo. It probably deserves another chance. I see the additional problem up there, as has been suggested, can something like 5 Guys stay viable in the off season? Same problem--likely--with Panerea, mentoned earlier; but that sure is a GREAT place!
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