Another business at Winnipesaukee is on the block!

[jrc]

I thought we ran out of oil when I was kid? Fool me once...

Because we are now running out of gas and oil, we must prepare quickly for a third change, to strict conservation and to the use of coal and permanent renewable energy sources, like solar power.

JIMMY CARTER, televised speech, Apr. 18, 1977

This business is the victim of a recession. less people buy luxury toys when they worry about making the mortgage or paying for their child's education. I feel soory for the people involved, I'm sure they poured their life into this.

[Island Girl]

www.rattlesnakecam.com/jwh/jwh.htm

[Lakesrider]

I worry about what things like this mean to the younger generations to come.
I have seen the complete lack of interest kids have today in regards to wanting to do these types of businesses. There may be still a few around, but I see this interest waning. I also worry about the fate of the older antique cars. Will we only see these nice wooden boats and old cars in museums, instead of working, drivable pieces of history? Yes, Harpers, and places like it, might be businesses in trouble, but to me the ramifications are so much more than that.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Lakesrider

I worry about what things like this mean to the younger generations to come.
I have seen the complete lack of interest kids have today in regards to wanting to do these types of businesses. There may be still a few around, but I see this interest waning. I also worry about the fate of the older antique cars. Will we only see these nice wooden boats and old cars in museums, instead of working, drivable pieces of history? Yes, Harpers, and places like it, might be businesses in trouble, but to me the ramifications are so much more than that.

Interesting point, very interesting point.....

I think the thing is that it is all about generations.... What was restoring the memorable past for one generations say those born in the late 30's to 50's is different then what is restoring the memorable past for the generation from the 60s and 70s.

I do unfortunately believe that things like antique cars and wooden boats will get rarer and rarer, because of this. To be dedicated to keeping something like that up you have to be a true collector (minority of people) or someone that is interested in doing the work involved because it is restoring a piece a their memorable past.

[StephenB]

Originally Posted by jrc

I thought we ran out of oil when I was kid? Fool me once...

Because we are now running out of gas and oil, we must prepare quickly for a third change, to strict conservation and to the use of coal and permanent renewable energy sources, like solar power.

JIMMY CARTER, televised speech, Apr. 18, 1977

This business is the victim of a recession. less people buy luxury toys when they worry about making the mortgage or paying for their child's education. I feel soory for the people involved, I'm sure they poured their life into this.

We in the US *did* run out of easy, cheap, oil. At that time we were importing less than half of what we are now. It's just that the rest of the world had some big oil finds and we realized that we could trade pieces of paper, called US dollars for that new-found oil. Now that world oil is in decline as well.

Well I was going to leave this alone, but seeing that a few others have responded.... What are you an class A {removed}.... A man is at risk of loosing everything he has worked his entire life for. A business and reputation that he has put real blood sweat and tears into. This has nothing to do with the short coming of petroleum or the end of the age. This has to do with this country being in a bad economic depression. Unfortunately restoring old wooden boats, and keeping them in tip top shape is something that can get cut in anyone's budget that has one. Because normally they are a second boat.

As such Mr. Harper has seen a decline of business since this economic depression started over 2 years ago. Unfortunately this depression got so bad he apparently has not been able to just ride it out.

Many great small business have lost the same battle over the last year. And for some one like you to put BS, earthy crunchy, I want to save the world, but don't expect me to live by the rules I preach crap, out as a response for it all is an insult.

(Don please forgive me for the Tone of this rant. But people need to stop being selfish and thinking about agenda. They need to think about how things like loosing everything you own, really effect a person)

You don't know me from Joe, so I can understand your misunderstanding me. I truly do care that people are going to lose their homes and businesses as they try to adapt to this change. That's why I called out on the subject. As for the business going under during the current recession/depression, well of course. But what's unsaid here is that the large run up in oil prices pretty much caused the current recession. In fact, just about *every* recession going back to 1974 has been preceded by a run up in oil prices, and this one was no different. (1974, 1979-81, 1991, 2008. Only 2001 - post 9/11, was the exception.) The current recession has EVERYTHING to do with oil. It was the run up in oil prices, combined with an economy choking on a high debt load (personal and governmental) that could no longer afford that debt service when energy prices took off.

I have no "agenda" as you say. I advocated no actions, nor did I attempt to sell anything, or preach anything. Oil Decline isn't "earthy, crunchy, save the earth BS." Matt Simmons, one of my quoted sources, is a well-known energy investment banker, based in Houston, and friend of the Bush family. He is no save the earth hippie. Rather, he is a highly successful business person that has worked his entire life in the energy business, especially the fossil energy business, and he has repeatedly argued since about 2003, that this crunch was coming. So far, he's been dead on with his calls. http://www.simmonsco-intl.com/resear...ype=msspeeches

All I did, is state that the Lakes Region, heavily dependent on powered recreation and second homes, is going to have a tough time dealing with this coming oil crunch.

Calling me names ("class A (removed)"), hardly seems useful under the circumstances.

[LIforrelaxin]

StephenB,

your right I don't know you from Joe, but I know the tatics. And like so many people you want to blame the situation in this country to Oil. It is indeed a good target. And it sure seems that it is one of the major culprits. But that is all a smoke screen.

The problem is not oil it never has been, even in the 70s. The oil embargo and issue back then where a result. The overall cause for the situation the country is in is good ole American Greed. The never ending need for more. Something bigger fancier etc. etc.

How many people that drive fullsize trucks and SUV really need them? Hell I can bearly justify mine, but I can. Especially now that it is paid for. The truth is big SUVs became status symbols.... Bigger vehicles need more gas....

Why do people need second homes on a lake that they don't use anymore then as summer homes. yet they build 3K-5K sq ft home and larger which they need to heat with oil.... once agian oil come into play, but it isn't the culprit.

Whats my point here... Oil lack or surplus of it is not the problem. For goodness sake Gas prices are already coming back down after jumping up a week ago. Greed for bigger and better things is what broke in the economy. People got so caught up in bigger and better that they remortgaged properties, put more money on credit cards then they could afford etc. etc.

All of a sudden things like ARM portions of mortgages came into play for people. There mortgage rates climbed they could cover the change.... Credit card rates went back up, and people could find there way out of debt.

As a result people stopped spending, business stopped earning money... especially business that served "luxury items". Why because the gravy train of borrowing money stopped out people where extended out as far as they could go. The business stopped being able to cover there expenses and ride out storm and start closing. Suddenly we where caught in a cyclone of financial disaster.

Now I will by the comment that Oil was a catalyst, one of many catalyst that has cause and will continue to cause economic downturns and depressions. However it has never and will never be the only cause. The Cause always comes back to greed and financially over extending. Whether it be the government, business, or people.

[StephenB]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

StephenB,

your right I don't know you from Joe, but I know the tatics. And like so many people you want to blame the situation in this country to Oil. It is indeed a good target. And it sure seems that it is one of the major culprits. But that is all a smoke screen.

The problem is not oil it never has been, even in the 70s. The oil embargo and issue back then where a result. The overall cause for the situation the country is in is good ole American Greed. The never ending need for more. Something bigger fancier etc. etc.

How many people that drive fullsize trucks and SUV really need them? Hell I can bearly justify mine, but I can. Especially now that it is paid for. The truth is big SUVs became status symbols.... Bigger vehicles need more gas....

Why do people need second homes on a lake that they don't use anymore then as summer homes. yet they build 3K-5K sq ft home and larger which they need to heat with oil.... once agian oil come into play, but it isn't the culprit.

Whats my point here... Oil lack or surplus of it is not the problem. For goodness sake Gas prices are already coming back down after jumping up a week ago. Greed for bigger and better things is what broke in the economy. People got so caught up in bigger and better that they remortgaged properties, put more money on credit cards then they could afford etc. etc.

All of a sudden things like ARM portions of mortgages came into play for people. There mortgage rates climbed they could cover the change.... Credit card rates went back up, and people could find there way out of debt.

As a result people stopped spending, business stopped earning money... especially business that served "luxury items". Why because the gravy train of borrowing money stopped out people where extended out as far as they could go. The business stopped being able to cover there expenses and ride out storm and start closing. Suddenly we where caught in a cyclone of financial disaster.

Now I will by the comment that Oil was a catalyst, one of many catalyst that has cause and will continue to cause economic downturns and depressions. However it has never and will never be the only cause. The Cause always comes back to greed and financially over extending. Whether it be the government, business, or people.

You and I don't disagree as much as you think perhaps. I could have said myself much of what you just said here, but I would weigh declining world oil supplies more into the equation. Tight world oil markets are what allowed the Wall St. speculators to play radically with oil prices as they did 2 years ago and unfortunately, I think they'll get their chance to do so again.

I concurrently was reading the gas prices thread tonight: http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...080#post124080 and found myself agreeing quite a bit with what VTSteve had to say as well.

Lastly, I really do want to repeat.... I am sympathetic to folks that lose their businesses, especially craftsmen such as the gentleman that was restoring older boats. I did not mean to sound like a cold hearted hippie cheering on the struggles of those dealing with these bad economic times. It's just that I really think that the oil situation is a large part of what's wrong here (or if not now, will be in the future), aided and abetted by a US government that over regulates and over-interferes with it's citizenry and businesses. These latter two phenomenons will combine to severely challenge most all businesses and individuals in the next several years.

[SIKSUKR]

I find that both of you make points I agree with.No need for name calling here.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I find that both of you make points I agree with.No need for name calling here.

SIKSUKR, you are correct.... and after the discord I must admittedly fall upon my sword. It is sharp and I yank it out often, because I am a reactionist. Stephen B. However has shown him self to be thought provoking person. Who is not at all the earthy crunchy type, his first post lead me to believe he was.

Stephen B., I would sit down and talk about things like this with you any time. Please forgive my early comment. I guess after dealing with to many people that don't really have really thought out reasoning behind their stances. Sometimes I jump to conclusions.

[Lucky1]

PS I am very sad that this man is losing his business and hope he can find a way to save it if that is what he wishes. I do see a wooden boat now and then but not often. They do look elegant.

[Shedwannabe]

Apropos of the discussion of declining oil (which has an impact on businesses dependent on cheap oil such as boating, automobiles, travel, and much of the rest of the American (and world) economy)

There is a presentation on Friday at the Prescott Education Center near Weirs Beach on the Transition Movement, the network of people around the world who are actively planning for "energy descent" or the time when oil becomes so expensive we have to make major shifts in our economy due to lack of easy oil for our addictions. Friday 6 - 8:30pm

Next month LARELLA will be doing a presentation at their monthly meeting on Energy Descent and local planning on a post-cheap oil world. See http://www.larella.org/meetings.php for more info.