Is a Boating Certificate REALLY necessary?

[Mr. V]

I visit the lake infrequently, and operate a boat very rarely.

NH law now requires that I have a boater's certificate in order to operate a boat over a certain HP.

Curious as to the penalty for not having such a certificate, I checked and the first offense is a $50 fine, and all subsequent offenses are $250.

No criminal fines or penalties, it would seem, just a fairly nominal civil sanction; seems to be a traffic infraction.

So, I weigh the odds: what are the odds that the MP will actually discover me operating a boat without a certificate?

That is my question: how zealously are they inspecting boats since the law came into effect?

Do they do a lot of random checks, or does the driver typically have to screw up to warrant their attention?

Do they issue warnings?

Seems to me it might be worth the risk to chance it, rather than spent the time needed to take the course, but I will probably take a Coast Guard Auxiliary approved course .

[DEJ]

The intent of this important requirement is to educate those who boat on NH waters the rules/laws pertaining to boating. Everyone can learn something from taking the course and taking the test. By not doing so you could be putting yourself as well as others in danger if you are not aware of the boating requirements. Seems like a no brainer to me rather than worry about how to avoid a ticket for not complying.

[joey2665]

New Hampshire MP does accept a Coast Guard Approved Cousre in place of their cousre, but keep in mind the Cooast Guard course usually focuses on issues related to open water boating and not lake boating (though many safety issues are the same). If you should by pass the NH test for the CG test you should at least pick up the coarse materials from NHMP and give it a good read as there are many informative issues related to the lake that a good safer boater should have knowledge of ( ie the 150 foot rule).

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

I visit the lake infrequently, and operate a boat very rarely.

NH law now requires that I have a boater's certificate in order to operate a boat over a certain HP.

Curious as to the penalty for not having such a certificate, I checked and the first offense is a $50 fine, and all subsequent offenses are $250.

No criminal fines or penalties, it would seem, just a fairly nominal civil sanction; seems to be a traffic infraction.

So, I weigh the odds: what are the odds that the MP will actually discover me operating a boat without a certificate?

That is my question: how zealously are they inspecting boats since the law came into effect?

Do they do a lot of random checks, or does the driver typically have to screw up to warrant their attention?

Do they issue warnings?

Seems to me it might be worth the risk to chance it, rather than spent the time needed to take the course, but I will probably take a Coast Guard Auxiliary approved course .

Really, you are a lawyer and you are asking folks how to circumvent the LAW!

Get off your high horse and take the course, you sound like the exact person that should take the test. You probably don't know as much as you think you do!

[jrc]

Obviously you should take the real NH sit down test. Good for you and good for the rest of us sharing the water with you.

2nd best, take an online test at one of the other states that NH recoginizes.

distant third, behave on the water and don't get caught. I've been piloting a boat on Winni for 9 years and never been asked for any paperwork, either the cert or the registration. Once or twice a MP pulled me over and asked to see PFDs, that's it. I got the cert online before they changed the law.

Say you do get caught and you can't talk your way out of it, then you get the $50 fine. So maybe no big deal. But here comes the big question, does it show up when your auto insurer checks your driving record? I know some boating infractions do. That could cost you serious cash.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

I visit the lake infrequently, and operate a boat very rarely.

NH law now requires that I have a boater's certificate in order to operate a boat over a certain HP.

Curious as to the penalty for not having such a certificate, I checked and the first offense is a $50 fine, and all subsequent offenses are $250.

No criminal fines or penalties, it would seem, just a fairly nominal civil sanction; seems to be a traffic infraction.

So, I weigh the odds: what are the odds that the MP will actually discover me operating a boat without a certificate?

That is my question: how zealously are they inspecting boats since the law came into effect?

Do they do a lot of random checks, or does the driver typically have to screw up to warrant their attention?

Do they issue warnings?

Seems to me it might be worth the risk to chance it, rather than spent the time needed to take the course, but I will probably take a Coast Guard Auxiliary approved course .

Mr V.. I don't know you from a hole in the wall. However it is people with attitudes like you show in this post, trying to navigate around the law, just to avoid the loss of a Saturday in a class room course, that are causing this country to become more and more a nanny state.

Back when people took responsibility for there actions and took those responsibilities seriously, because the fine where harsh we had a overall much better behaved society. But now because oh hell if I just let this slide, what is 50$ dollar fine, kind of attitudes that have things falling apart. I am a strict believer in harsh punishments.... Fines should be made harsh enough to make people think twice and do what is right.... 50$ should be more like 5000$ dollars...

We are way to easy on people that break minor civil laws these days, and for that matter way to easy on people that break major criminal laws as well. I do believe we need to go back to a simpler time when 3 years in jail means 3 years in jail... not 6 months in jail and an earlier release with probation.... fines shouldn't match what it cost to do things right like the case of getting caught without a boating certificate, it should be 100 times worse.

People get off way to easily in this country, we need harsher penalties especially when people knowingly circumvent the law.

[bchpndmom]

I know there is a temporary/weekend license available which is intended for people renting a boat. Otherwise do the right thing, we're all out on the lake looking for a nice, safe time.

[Mr. V]

Get off your high horse and take the course, you sound like the exact person that should take the test. You probably don't know as much as you think you do!

Oh sure, when I fly out for my two week vacation this summer, I'll be sure to make time to take a boating course in NH.

Get real!

I live 3000 miles away; the LAST thing I want to do is blow a day in some classroom.

But as I said, I'll probably take a course offered locally by the Coast Guard Auxiliary which will yield the now all-important boating certificate.

I was surprised to find that the penalty for operating a boat in NH without the boating certificate was so trivial.

Couple that to seemingly low chance of discovery, and a risk analysis becomes inevitable, at least for those with a scofflaw gene.

Thanks to the one responder who actually chose to answer my question.

As for the rest of you ...

http://images.tmuscle.com/forum_imag...1e9b078e87.gif

[XCR-700]

Hummm, generally I’m NOT a supporter of more Government intervention and additional rules and requirements, but in this case I will make an exception only because it has been my observation that boating as a recreational pastime has grown significantly in recent years.

And while I don’t believe that in and of itself is sufficient to warrant this requirement, I do believe the quality of the new boaters skills and their basic knowledge of powerboat operation (or more correctly lack of) does warrant some intervention/action.

Arguable the state could do a better job with the rules regarding the certificate requirements and process, they are inconsistent and not well thought out at best.

I seems odd to me that if you are a local you must go to a proctored test, but if you are from out of state then you can use your own states certificate which may not necessarily be equivalent in its training and testing requirements. Also the idea that the Coast Guard classes are not sufficient/appropriate but other states certificates are seems like an problem to me.

One would think it reasonable to continue to recognize other states certificates and also recognize the Coast Guard certificate (as we do with auto drivers licenses) as well as to drop the proctored test requirement as it is not required elsewhere. Then you would have a process that is fair and equal.

But then this is based my concept that the goal is to make sure all powerboat operators have a basic knowledge of marine safety rules. If the goal is something other than that or includes more, then my argument is out the window,,,

So I say take a class, take an exam, get your certificate (from anywhere) and be a better boater and be done with it. You will have peace of mind knowing your legal and you may pick up a tid-bit or two of useful knowledge along the way.

Well that’s one boaters opinion.

GH

[Sman]

operate a boat very rarely

is sort of the problem for me

I would say that your point of view might be easier to take if you had an abundance of experience (I still don't agree with it) but where like you said you operate a boat rarely, you do not have the ability to fall back on experience. Think of it more as what is better/safer for you, your passengers and other boaters as opposed to the 50 bucks, its not like its an annual thing.

That said, I think practical experience on the lake trumps the info you learn on the test but to choose neither leaves you not real informed. I learned things taking the test, but I'm not sure there was any new info that has helped me boat safer, but the parts I already knew were from experience and were covered in the information. I personally feel there is information covered in the material that adds bulk to the class/test that dilutes the more important sections (like who has the right of way for example) which causes people to want to bag the process and take their chances. So I would say there is no substitute for experience, but since you don't have that take the test.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Fines should be made harsh enough to make people think twice and do what is right.... 50$ should be more like 5000$ dollars...

We are way to easy on people that break minor civil laws these days, and for that matter way to easy on people that break major criminal laws as well. I do believe we need to go back to a simpler time when 3 years in jail means 3 years in jail... not 6 months in jail and an earlier release with probation.... fines shouldn't match what it cost to do things right like the case of getting caught without a boating certificate, it should be 100 times worse.

People get off way to easily in this country, we need harsher penalties especially when people knowingly circumvent the law.

Well I may be the odd man out on this, but I have to disagree in that I think we punish people plenty hard for minor civil offenses, $50.00 is still a lot of money to me and would be sufficient to cause me to feel some pain.

I agree that 3 years in jail should be 3 years in jail and I do feel that we have problems when we are talking about penalties for violent crimes and habitual re-offenders, but it is my opinion that the penalties for minor infractions have become money makers for a lot of cities, states, etc, and I for one don’t believe that additional fines for these so called minor infractions will ever do anything to deter those who have little regard for the law or their fellow citizens.

The sledge hammer approach does not work for every situation and the working man is always the one who suffers the most from additional and extreme changes to laws and enforcement and unfortunately the deep pockets have better lawyers and feel little pain either way when all is said and done.

Again, that’s one boaters opinion,,,

GH

[Pricestavern]

Take the course. One of the biggest safey issues is the ignorance of boaters when it comes to Right of Way.

Just check out the thread, "Saw a great bonehead move yesterday" for numerous examples.

[VtSteve]

I personally feel that the test is better than nothing at all, especially for those with little to no experience. But let's get serious here. The online tests are pretty much all the same, and are at best, the rough equivalent of the automobile book published by the DMV's. Let's not make the exams to be more than what they are.

The real tests should be on water, in similar fashion to automobile license tests. It's quite obvious to me that the tests do not equate to better boaters. I think they provide valuable insight to those that honestly want to learn more, and take the time to be careful.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

I personally feel that the test is better than nothing at all, especially for those with little to no experience. But let's get serious here. The online tests are pretty much all the same, and are at best, the rough equivalent of the automobile book published by the DMV's. Let's not make the exams to be more than what they are.

The real tests should be on water, in similar fashion to automobile license tests. It's quite obvious to me that the tests do not equate to better boaters. I think they provide valuable insight to those that honestly want to learn more, and take the time to be careful.

Well stated!

GH

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Arguable the state could do a better job with the rules regarding the certificate requirements and process, they are inconsistent and not well thought out at best.

I seems odd to me that if you are a local you must go to a proctored test, but if you are from out of state then you can use your own states certificate which may not necessarily be equivalent in its training and testing requirements. Also the idea that the Coast Guard classes are not sufficient/appropriate but other states certificates are seems like an problem to me.

One would think it reasonable to continue to recognize other states certificates and also recognize the Coast Guard certificate (as we do with auto drivers licenses) as well as to drop the proctored test requirement as it is not required elsewhere. Then you would have a process that is fair and equal.

\
GH

Where did you get the idea that the Coast Guard Certificate is not accepted?

From the Boater Education Site:

New Hampshire accepts the following boating education certificates:

1. A boating certificate issued by another State agency and NASBLA approved.
2. A boating certificate issued by the US Power Squadron.
3. A boating certificate issued by the US Coast Guard Auxiliary.
4. An unexpired commercial boating license issued by the US Coast Guard.
5. An unexpired commercial boating license issued by the State of New Hampshire.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by NightWing

Where did you get the idea that the Coast Guard Certificate is not accepted?

From the Boater Education Site:

New Hampshire accepts the following boating education certificates:

1. A boating certificate issued by another State agency and NASBLA approved.
2. A boating certificate issued by the US Power Squadron.
3. A boating certificate issued by the US Coast Guard Auxiliary.
4. An unexpired commercial boating license issued by the US Coast Guard.
5. An unexpired commercial boating license issued by the State of New Hampshire.

Oh sorry, misread a previous post,,,

I'm happy!!!

Thanks - GH

[Lucy Goose]

Is it really going to kill you to take some time to take a test that cost only $30 and $10 for the certificate. You are already ahead of your first ticket for $50 by $10. Do the math. And maybe you will actually learn something. Althought with that attitude probably not. If everyone else has to do it, what makes you so special? Just ridiculous.

[Airwaves]

Origianlly posted by Joey2665

New Hampshire MP does accept a Coast Guard Approved Cousre in place of their cousre, but keep in mind the Cooast Guard course usually focuses on issues related to open water boating and not lake boating (though many safety issues are the same). If you should by pass the NH test for the CG test you should at least pick up the coarse materials from NHMP and give it a good read as there are many informative issues related to the lake that a good safer boater should have knowledge of ( ie the 150 foot rule).

Actually a Coast Guard approved course is not the criteria. The criteria is a National Association of State Boating Law Administrators (NASBLA) approved course. There is a difference. Click HERE for the boating certificate criteria approved by NH.

The only "Coast Guard" approval accepted by NH is for an unexpired Commercial license issued by the Coast Guard, or a safe boating certificate issued by the Coast Guard Auxiliary.

[tis]

It is the law so we all have to do it, but IMHO since the courses have started I have seen no improvement in safe driving out there. In fact, I think it has gotten worse.

[BroadHopper]

Even on our roads, everyone is required to pass a test to get their driver's license. Yet I have to drive definsively as there are too many drivers that don't even know what the heck they are doing!

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by tis

It is the law so we all have to do it, but IMHO since the courses have started I have seen no improvement in safe driving out there. In fact, I think it has gotten worse.

All the Law and the certificate really do is prove that you can study and learn. Whether you apply that knowledge or not is complete up to the individual.

Now on the flip side of this is that once you have a boating certificate in hand and the MP pulls you over and sites you for something you no longer have the defense that you where unaware of the law, or even unaware of where you would find the law.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Don't worry the questions are not to difficult.

Here is an example:
A boat leaves from Alton heading north at 32 miles per hour.
A boat leaves from Center Harbor 20 minutes earlier headed south at 49 miles per hour (pre SL)
A batch of onion rings enters the fry-o-lator at 4:32 with an oil temperature of 425F.
Who has the best Lobster Roll for the money?

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by NightWing

Where did you get the idea that the Coast Guard Certificate is not accepted?

From the Boater Education Site:

New Hampshire accepts the following boating education certificates:

1. A boating certificate issued by another State agency and NASBLA approved.
2. A boating certificate issued by the US Power Squadron.
3. A boating certificate issued by the US Coast Guard Auxiliary.
4. An unexpired commercial boating license issued by the US Coast Guard.
5. An unexpired commercial boating license issued by the State of New Hampshire.

No. 2 is not necessarily correct. I have been boating for abour 60 years from Maine to Florida. I didn't bother to get the online certificate when available because I had one from the USPS I received in 1973 (this was at least a 7 week course IIRC). I did help my wife study and she got her NH cert online. I decided it would be nice to have a little plastic card instead of my large paper certificate so I made a copy of it and sent it in with my $10. Got a call from the head of boating safety who said it doesn't say NASBLA approved (they didn't exist then) and we don't know what was covered. I told him I still have the course binder and it covers a lot more than NH's course does. Bottom line I got my check back after 9 months and a new cert from USPS that now says NASBLA approved.
So for anymore old timers who have an old USPS cert that doesn't say NASBLA you could encounter a problem if stopped.

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by Seeker

No. 2 is not necessarily correct. I have been boating for abour 60 years from Maine to Florida. ed.

60 Freakin Years..??? Even if I count my 9 years "Boating Experience" in the NAVY I can't come up with 6o years experience.......and I am 69.

Step up to the plate young man and prove yourself. NB

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

60 Freakin Years..??? Even if I count my 9 years "Boating Experience" in the NAVY I can't come up with 6o years experience.......and I am 69.

Step up to the plate young man and prove yourself. NB

Does polishing the bow with your diaper count toward total time,,,

[dog paw]

What are the odds of being stopped? The wife and I were stopped the VERY first time we put a vessel in Winnipesaukee LOL! The MP advised us of a few things that are different than they are down south, told us where to take the test and gave us the state reg book to boot. Pretty darn hospitable if you ask me. Thought I was being punked The certificate thing is being phased in into Virginia now also.

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by Seeker:

I have been boating for abour 60 years from Maine to Florida. I didn't bother to get the online certificate when available because I had one from the USPS I received in 1973 (this was at least a 7 week course IIRC). I did help my wife study and she got her NH cert online. I decided it would be nice to have a little plastic card instead of my large paper certificate so I made a copy of it and sent it in with my $10. Got a call from the head of boating safety who said it doesn't say NASBLA approved (they didn't exist then) and we don't know what was covered. I told him I still have the course binder and it covers a lot more than NH's course does. Bottom line I got my check back after 9 months and a new cert from USPS that now says NASBLA approved.
So for anymore old timers who have an old USPS cert that doesn't say NASBLA you could encounter a problem if stopped.

Seeker, The following is the LAW:

TITLE XXII
NAVIGATION; HARBORS; COAST SURVEY
CHAPTER 270-D
BOATING AND WATER SAFETY ON NEW HAMPSHIRE PUBLIC WATERS
Safe Boater Education
Section 270-D:15
270-D:15 Certificate Not Required. – A person shall not be required to obtain a certificate of boating safety education if the person holds a certificate from any state indicating successful completion of boating safety education that meets or exceeds the requirements of this subdivision, a certificate from the United States Coast Guard Auxiliary, or a certificate from the United States Power Squadron.
Source. 2000, 52:3, eff. Jan. 1, 2002.

Note that the certificate from the US Power Squadron is specifically noted in the law. (Without a reference to NASBLA) Whoever told you that your Power Squadron certification was too old was mistaken.

Between you and me, I have gone on line and printed out the RSA I quoted above and I keep it in my wallet next to my certificate because my USCGAux certificate was issued in the 80's. As with the USPS and NH certificates the USCGAux certificates are for life, there is no expiration date. I do this just because the MP hires seasonal employees that may not know the law.

[gravy boat]

There are many who rent watercraft for the day in this state who take an abbreviated course and secure the right to operate for a specific period of time -- 2 weeks, I think. I guess you could do that, as so many others do and bypass the full-day course. It's certainly not bypassing or breaking any laws or else it would not be allowed by the state. Rent a jet ski for an hour, take a quick test and have the right to operate for most if not all of the time you're on vacation here.

But then again you could spend years on this lake, take the course and one night take the boat out with friends in inclement weather, have a couple cocktails and operate in a manner unsafe enough to kill your friend and severly injure yourself and another. And even then you'll only get 6 months in the can.

And yes...I'm being a wise-a@3. My point is that this state has laws that don't seem to make sense in some instances and makes it easy for those who may not be as responsible as others.

GB

[EllyPoinster]

Just as another thought on the subject, if you were involved in an accident, and did not have the required certificate, could your insurance company deny a related claim?

If the answer is "yes", the time and expense of obtaining a certificate becomes a lot more acceptable.

[chipj29]

Sorry, but this post made me

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Does polishing the bow with your diaper count toward total time,,,

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by chipj29

Sorry, but this post made me

Ya, easy for you to laugh while I sit there in my clothies,,,

I'm told I used to make "motor noises" even when were docked,,, LOL

GH

[MAXUM]

Something to consider in regards to taking the NH boater's course. NH still uses the USWMS marking system which was to be phased out as of 2003 nation wide. Most other states now use the ATONS marking system which is completely different in that the USWMS marking system (otherwise known as the cardinal marking system).

Is this really THAT important, you be the judge, here are the differences:

* The old USWMS black port side channel markers are now GREEN can buoys.
* The old USWMS red starboard side channel markers are now red NUN buoys.
* The old USWMS red and white vertically striped buoys have been replaced by one of the following:
-a red or green channel marker directing safe passage
-an orange and white regulatory marker,
- a red and black isolated danger marker.
* The old USWMS white buoys topped with black or red bands, have been replaced by one of the following: a red or green channel marker directing safe passage, an orange and white regulatory marker, or a red and black isolated danger marker.


Now of you're not familiar with the USWMS marking system and head out on any lake in NH it'll make for an interesting boating experience to say the least. If you happen to get a license in any other state or via the coast guard they will not cover these markings and therefore you will be ignorant when you hit the water. Not a very good situation even if you have experience in another state or even out on the ocean. As it has been pointed out already, it's not a matter of fines or if you'll get caught, it's a matter of education. What also will be covered is any boating laws that are unique to NH. Take the time and attend the class, you may just end up learning a thing or two.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Oh sure, when I fly out for my two week vacation this summer, I'll be sure to make time to take a boating course in NH.

Get real!

I live 3000 miles away; the LAST thing I want to do is blow a day in some classroom.

But as I said, I'll probably take a course offered locally by the Coast Guard Auxiliary which will yield the now all-important boating certificate.

I was surprised to find that the penalty for operating a boat in NH without the boating certificate was so trivial.

Couple that to seemingly low chance of discovery, and a risk analysis becomes inevitable, at least for those with a scofflaw gene.

Thanks to the one responder who actually chose to answer my question.

As for the rest of you ...

http://images.tmuscle.com/forum_imag...1e9b078e87.gif

What a noise this tree will make when it falls. Don't hurt anyone.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Oh sure, when I fly out for my two week vacation this summer, I'll be sure to make time to take a boating course in NH.

Get real!

I live 3000 miles away; the LAST thing I want to do is blow a day in some classroom.

But as I said, I'll probably take a course offered locally by the Coast Guard Auxiliary which will yield the now all-important boating certificate.

I was surprised to find that the penalty for operating a boat in NH without the boating certificate was so trivial.

Couple that to seemingly low chance of discovery, and a risk analysis becomes inevitable, at least for those with a scofflaw gene.

Thanks to the one responder who actually chose to answer my question.

As for the rest of you ...

http://images.tmuscle.com/forum_imag...1e9b078e87.gif

This seems to me to be the same question as for a car driver's license. To operate a car in NH you are required to have a valid driver's license from a recognized authority. There are fines for driving without a license. The chances of a random stop are slim. If you screw up and get caught not having a license makes everything worse. Yet very few play the no car license game. People go and get their car license, putting in the time and money to take written and road tests and, in some cases, required driver education classes. Why should boating be any different? In many ways operating a boat is much more difficult than a car. I think the training requirements should be much more than they are, including a hands on training and on-the-water exam. You should be allowed to do it in your home state and have it transfer just like a car license does. Why do people resist this common sense requirement? Because it's inconvenient? Fine, go somewhere else and boat.

[NoBozo]

I remember a certain Seinfeld episode where Kramer was test driving a New Saab.. Un beknown to both the car salesman and Kramer............. it came upon them.... Gas mileage became THE factor. How far will this stinkin car go before it runs out of gas....? Adrenalin was running......Testoserone...There was RISK....where will we be... WHEN....it happens?

To Kramers credit....he didn't give in to the salesmens early concerns and the salesmen got "caught up" in the Quest. You have to appreciate that.

SO: Maybe driving your boat without a "Certificate" holds the same kind of.....Adventure. We have to appreciate that..don't we.. NB

PS: I think I would have to recommend NOT getting the Certificate.

[Mr. V]

SO: Maybe driving your boat without a "Certificate" holds the same kind of.....Adventure. We have to appreciate that..don't we.. NB

You don't understand.

It is not because I crave adventure that I ask the question, and presuppose a willingness to take the risk.

It is because the cost of a ticket is less than the cost of taking the course, if you factor time spent with it.

Fifty bucks, that's nothing.

Heck, I sometimes risk more than that on one roll of the dice at a craps table.

Why should piloting a boat be any different?

[Seeker]

To Nobozo: Actually it's 66 years. I purchased my first powerboat when I was 9.

To Airwaves: It was the head of the NH Boating Safety whatever (I'll find his name if you like). Like arguing with a frigging pine tree. I told him what the RSA said but he just didn't care and "He's the boss" so he wouldn't issue my cert.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Originally Posted by Seeker

To Nobozo: Actually it's 66 years. I purchased my first powerboat when I was 9.

To Airwaves: It was the head of the NH Boating Safety whatever (I'll find his name if you like). Like arguing with a frigging pine tree. I told him what the RSA said but he just didn't care and "He's the boss" so he wouldn't issue my cert.

Seeker;
Thank you. I love adding colorful sayings to my repertoire. "Like arguing with a frigging pine tree" is worth adding to the list. LOL

[Belmont Resident]

Stay home you sound exactly like the people we do not want here.
If you rarely boat you probably rarely do the right thing when you do go out on the water, thus making it more dangerous for the ones who do the right thing.

[no-engine]

"This seems to me to be the same question as for a car driver's license. To operate a car in NH you are required to have a valid driver's license from a recognized authority. There are fines for driving without a license. The chances of a random stop are slim. If you screw up and get caught not having a license makes everything worse. Yet very few play the no car license game. People go and get their car license, putting in the time and money to take written and road tests and, in some cases, required driver education classes. Why should boating be any different? In many ways operating a boat is much more difficult than a car. I think the training requirements should be much more than they are, including a hands on training and on-the-water exam. You should be allowed to do it in your home state and have it transfer just like a car license does. Why do people resist this common sense requirement? Because it's inconvenient? Fine, go somewhere else and boat. "

I was reading and going to say pretty much what is quoted above.
GET A LIFE. Drive, hunt, fish, etc. with an appropriate license; be a plumber, electrician, explosive technician, cosmetologist, etc. with certification. NOW BOAT WITH THE PROPER EDUCATION AND CERTIFICATE.
If not possible, boat as a guest with a friend or do not operate the boat!

I rarely see the respect for other boaters on an inland water, as I was taught when a kid on coastal waters!

[lawn psycho]

And how long have boats been operated on Winni before the safety course requirement?

Make the primary rules & safety requirements part of the registration documents required reading and move on. And yes, I have my "certificate". Whoopeee.

[jrc]

Comparing the safety cert to a auto drivers license is a little off. A drivers license is a defacto national ID. You need it for a hundred things beyond driving a car.

Learning the important NH specific laws takes five minutes, if you already know the more universal boating rules. Really it's just red/black spar bouys and the 150' rule.

I had great hopes for universal safety training and I'm still holding out a little. But now I still see just as many boneheads. When I see them, I used to think they didn't know the rules, now I think they just don't care.

[VtSteve]

We have all kinds of rules on the roadways. There are different kinds of rules to learn on waterways, many are navigation. But Common sense and courtesy? Some people (many), simply don't have them. No law can make them more courteous, and some people simply don't have the skill level to be good at these things, no matter how good their intentions.

Simple fact of life. If we, the public, continue to allow broad-based laws and rhetoric to be targeted at the population as a whole, the intended target, "The Problem", will never be hit. I think it's pretty obvious to the majority of good boaters out there what the problems on waterways are. Focus attention on the problem, it becomes less of a problem.

That could be a pretty good lesson for those that increase rules and regulations, while reducing budgets and manpower designated to enforce them.

[AB_Monterey]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Oh sure, when I fly out for my two week vacation this summer, I'll be sure to make time to take a boating course in NH.

Get real!

I live 3000 miles away; the LAST thing I want to do is blow a day in some classroom.

But it's not "blowing a day".

Take the test on-line before you leave.

Sign up for the proctored test on a Saturday AM. (Assuming you get an acceptable grade on-line)

We were in and out in less than 20 minutes and out on the lake 20 minutes later.

[Airwaves]

Seeker wrote:

To Airwaves: It was the head of the NH Boating Safety whatever (I'll find his name if you like). Like arguing with a frigging pine tree. I told him what the RSA said but he just didn't care and "He's the boss" so he wouldn't issue my cert.

He wouldn't issue a certificate? Why would you ask him to issue a certificate? If you need a replacement certificate for the USPS safety course that you took then you would contact the USPS not the NHMP. The law is the law. If he said he didn't care what the RSA says then I personally would have complained to his boss. Yes, he has a boss.

[Knockers]

{comment removed}

[Airwaves]

Knockers, you are probably right and I thought the same thing when I first read his post. However I think something interesting has come from this thread, and that is after several years of being in place there apparently are still NH officials that don't understand the law.

I refer to Seeker's posts that the head of the NH Boating Safety Division told him his Power Squadron certificate was too old!

While it would be a good idea for him to take a refresher course, the NH official was wrong. The law is quite clear specifically saying that a certificate issued by the Power Squadron and Coast Guard Auxiliary are both accepted in NH. Like NH's certificate, both are valid for life.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Knockers

{comment removed}

The question I posted is valid.

A $50 fine is a slap on the wrists; add to it the fact that it is unlikely to ever be administered and you have a perfect scofflaw situation.

I have boated for many years on Winni and elsewhere, I just don't operate a boat too often anymore on Winni.

FWIW, I own an MB Sports tournament boat, but it is out west, where i live.

No boating certificate required, either.

"Live Free of Die" is dead, Knockers.

[NBR]

Let me think, Oh yes, with that attitude what other New Hampshire laws will you choose to ignore. If your state has a recognized program you can take that and it will be recognized here. You should learn the NH navigation rules since red right return doesnot apply here.

While we truely love our tourists and the money they bring our small state I have no problem if you want to stay in Oregon.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by NBR

Let me think, Oh yes, with that attitude what other New Hampshire laws will you choose to ignore. If your state has a recognized program you can take that and it will be recognized here. You should learn the NH navigation rules since red right return doesnot apply here.

While we truely love our tourists and the money they bring our small state I have no problem if you want to stay in Oregon.

I know how the channel markers work, NBR, I've boated on Winni most of my life.

Odds are I'm as competent to operate a boat as you are.

As for other laws I will ignore, let's start with speeding on highways.

I usually drive five to seven mph over the posted speed on an Interstate.

So does most everybody else.

What, you going to tar and feather me for doing what everybody else does?

FWIW, I wouldn't come back to your state if I had no family there and if we didn't have lakefront property on the big lake: pretty far to travel to look at a pretty view and (sometimes) contract duck itch from the less than sterling water in the lake these days.

Your attitude ("stay in Oregon") reminds me of that voiced by a former Oregon governor, Tom McCall: "We want you to visit our State of Excitement often. Come again and again. But for heaven's sake, don't move here to live. Or if you do have to move in to live, don't tell any of your neighbors where you are going."

Narrow opinions for narrow minds, eh?

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by NBR

Let me think, Oh yes, with that attitude what other New Hampshire laws will you choose to ignore. If your state has a recognized program you can take that and it will be recognized here. You should learn the NH navigation rules since red right return doesnot apply here.

While we truely love our tourists and the money they bring our small state I have no problem if you want to stay in Oregon.

Let's put this in perspective. Most people boat on one or maybe two bodies of water. If I am dumb enough to run up on a rock and trash my outdrive, that's my problem. Many lakes in NH don't even have markers so it won't make a difference. Boating is a lot about local knowledge.

Some people seem to think that the boating certificate requirement has somehow been the holy grail for boating safety. It's not.

The safety record of boating in NH speaks for itself, and it did not take the certificate program to get there. Reading this the forum, some people must think everyone else is stupid.

[Airwaves]

...David T. Barrett, Director of the Division of Safety Services, said the low fatality rates reflect a combination of factors, such as mandatory boater education...

[Island Life]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

I visit the lake infrequently, and operate a boat very rarely.

NH law now requires that I have a boater's certificate in order to operate a boat over a certain HP.

Curious as to the penalty for not having such a certificate, I checked and the first offense is a $50 fine, and all subsequent offenses are $250.

No criminal fines or penalties, it would seem, just a fairly nominal civil sanction; seems to be a traffic infraction.

So, I weigh the odds: what are the odds that the MP will actually discover me operating a boat without a certificate?

That is my question: how zealously are they inspecting boats since the law came into effect?

Do they do a lot of random checks, or does the driver typically have to screw up to warrant their attention?

Do they issue warnings?

Seems to me it might be worth the risk to chance it, rather than spent the time needed to take the course, but I will probably take a Coast Guard Auxiliary approved course .

This is the attitude that makes punitive damages a necessary tool.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

...David T. Barrett, Director of the Division of Safety Services, said the low fatality rates reflect a combination of factors, such as mandatory boater education...

So what are the annual fatalities by year for the last 20 years? You only quoted a part of the statement.

As a recall the boater education class, a bunch of time was spent on the 150 ft rule and the life vest requirements. The rest was mostly fluff.

The season is very short in NH. Compared to many other lakes in other states, Winni does not have the volume of boats that people want to believe. Even if you required a 40 hour boating course I am convinced there are some busy bodies who would ask for more......

[John A. Birdsall]

Let us suppose that you are from Mass. and you get stopped in Tilton NH on Rt 93, lets further suppose that you have no valid drivers license. I don't think you will leave the area without a ticket. and I think your vechicle will be towed to an inpound lot. Now that is what I suspect would happen, now lets turn that around to a boat. Your home port is in Wolfeboro and you are in the broads and get stopped for doing 50 mph. Oops I never bothered with the coarse and the cop give you a ticket, just $50.00 or is it just $50.00 I would think that the MP would have your boat towed to an inpound lot at your expense. And TOW are us charges a minimum of $125.00 and I would suspect that it would go to the MP Headquaters in Gleen Dale.
I cannot see the MP giving you a ticket for failure to have a drivers license and just let you drive away. If such is the case and MP takes you also to glendale, don't forget your gonna have to get back to Wolfeboro. have a good day.

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

Seeker wrote:

He wouldn't issue a certificate? Why would you ask him to issue a certificate? If you need a replacement certificate for the USPS safety course that you took then you would contact the USPS not the NHMP. The law is the law. If he said he didn't care what the RSA says then I personally would have complained to his boss. Yes, he has a boss.

Airwaves, If you read my post you would know why I wanted a certificate. To repeat, the USPS one was a large paper cert and I just thought it would be convenient to have a nice small plastic one. THe RSA says this is possible if you send in a copy of yours with a check for $10.
I'm done, stick a fork in me for this thread.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by John A. Birdsall

Let us suppose that you are from Mass. and you get stopped in Tilton NH on Rt 93, lets further suppose that you have no valid drivers license. I don't think you will leave the area without a ticket. and I think your vechicle will be towed to an inpound lot. Now that is what I suspect would happen, now lets turn that around to a boat. Your home port is in Wolfeboro and you are in the broads and get stopped for doing 50 mph. Oops I never bothered with the coarse and the cop give you a ticket, just $50.00 or is it just $50.00 I would think that the MP would have your boat towed to an inpound lot at your expense. And TOW are us charges a minimum of $125.00 and I would suspect that it would go to the MP Headquaters in Gleen Dale.
I cannot see the MP giving you a ticket for failure to have a drivers license and just let you drive away. If such is the case and MP takes you also to glendale, don't forget your gonna have to get back to Wolfeboro. have a good day.

IT'S NOT A LICENSE. Tell me precisely how much time the course was spent on an actual boat?

I doubt seriously that a boat would be towed soley for not having a boating certificate. Let's talk facts and data rather than speculation. How many States have no course requirements, no 150 ft rule, yada, yada and you don't see them all having mass fatalities and accidents.

Some of you need to get a grip. OMG, that other boat was driving 18 MPH and they were ONLY 149.9 ft away!! They must be stopped as they must be out of staters who don't know anything. I better log onto Winnipeasukee.com and post about how am I the perfect citizen and nobody obeys any rules.

I'm reasonable but please stop putting the safety certificate on some kind of pedestal as if it's going to save us all from ourselved. And in 5 minutes of reading I could learn the essential NH boating laws.

Marker system? Most people use maps and if they are willing to venture onto a bigger lake like Winni then it's buyer beware if you don't know where your boat is pointed....

[dowshill]

I recently took the class, 2 nights at the local library. My 22 year old daughter took it w/ me and we were pretty much dreading it, however, we both thought it was very beneficial, surprisingly unpainful and very informative. Scott Bailey was an excellent teacher!

[Airwaves]

Just trying to help Seeker.

I re-read your initial post and your mistake was in asking the NHMP to issue a USPS certificate! Below are the applicable RSAs you asked me to read, along with the link to a file you probably used to send to the NHMP.

Bottom line. NH is not going to issue a copy of a certificate that NH did not issue in the first place! If you want a little plastic card stating that you successfully completed the USPS boating course in 1971 then you have to go to a USPS Squadron with proof and get them to give you one. I had to do this for my wife who misplaced her US Coast Guard Aux card and we went to the USCGAux flotilla with the large paper certificate as proof and they issued her a replacement card.

Now I AM DONE trying to be helpful regarding this!

270-D:13 Issuance of Safe Boater Education Certificate.
III. The commissioner, or designee, shall replace a lost or destroyed certificate upon written request of the person entitled thereto and payment of the prescribed fee, and such copy shall have the same form and effect as the original.

http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/s...yment_form.pdf

270-D:15 Certificate Not Required. – A person shall not be required to obtain a certificate of boating safety education if the person holds a certificate from any state indicating successful completion of boating safety education that meets or exceeds the requirements of this subdivision, a certificate from the United States Coast Guard Auxiliary, or a certificate from the United States Power Squadron.

Originally posted by Lawn psycho

So what are the annual fatalities by year for the last 20 years? You only quoted a part of the statement.

As a recall the boater education class, a bunch of time was spent on the 150 ft rule and the life vest requirements. The rest was mostly fluff.

The season is very short in NH. Compared to many other lakes in other states, Winni does not have the volume of boats that people want to believe. Even if you required a 40 hour boating course I am convinced there are some busy bodies who would ask for more......

All the information is linked here: http://www.sbonh.org

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by Mr V

I visit the lake infrequently, and operate a boat very rarely.

NH law now requires that I have a boater's certificate in order to operate a boat over a certain HP.

Curious as to the penalty for not having such a certificate, I checked and the first offense is a $50 fine, and all subsequent offenses are $250.

No criminal fines or penalties, it would seem, just a fairly nominal civil sanction; seems to be a traffic infraction.

So, I weigh the odds: what are the odds that the MP will actually discover me operating a boat without a certificate?

You are correct in your assessment of the penalty for not carrying a certificate, but ask yourself this. If you are stopped by the MP and don't have a certificate you'll probably get a warning on your first day...but the MP will also take note of your boat and bow numbers. You don't think that when they see you out on the water over the next day or two they won't stop you? Of course they will, then that warning becomes a fine...and so on and so on... Will they begin to target your boat? What do you think?

So you spend a week at the lake...day one you are warned, day 2 that warning turns into a fine, but you keep boating. Every day they spot you headed out and every day they stop you...so your non-compliance just set you back $1,300.

You decide.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

IT'S NOT A LICENSE. Tell me precisely how much time the course was spent on an actual boat?

I doubt seriously that a boat would be towed soley for not having a boating certificate. Let's talk facts and data rather than speculation. How many States have no course requirements, no 150 ft rule, yada, yada and you don't see them all having mass fatalities and accidents.

Some of you need to get a grip. OMG, that other boat was driving 18 MPH and they were ONLY 149.9 ft away!! They must be stopped as they must be out of staters who don't know anything. I better log onto Winnipeasukee.com and post about how am I the perfect citizen and nobody obeys any rules.

I'm reasonable but please stop putting the safety certificate on some kind of pedestal as if it's going to save us all from ourselved. And in 5 minutes of reading I could learn the essential NH boating laws.

Marker system? Most people use maps and if they are willing to venture onto a bigger lake like Winni then it's buyer beware if you don't know where your boat is pointed....

Let me state right up front that I fully support the concept of taking a boating safety class, nothing bad will come from it and everyone may learn a thing or two from it. And with regard to the certificate, yes it’s a good idea, and new boaters will definitely benefit from the whole process, but I personally agree with “Lawn Psycho” it will do very little overall to impact boating safety.

Most of what makes one person a safe boater vs someone who is not, is experience and common sense, not a paper certificate.

And for those of us who have been boating since diapers (don’t make me repost the picture! – LOL) there will likely be no significant change in the way we operate because of a class or certificate, any expectations that such a class or getting certified will somehow make us better boaters is just a fantasy.

Safe boating classes and certificates are good ideas and have good merits, but they are not some holy grail of boating safety.

So have we beat this one to death, or are there a few more posts still left in it,,,

p.s. Please spare me any condemnation replies, I did my due diligence by stating up front that I fully support the program

[KBoater]

I have a USPS certificate which I got in FL. I have boated in NH for years. I haven’t found any document which lists the unique NH laws of boating. Is there something that list the differences between USPS and NH? It would be a good document since the only way to determine these is to match both rules.

[VtSteve]

There's really not much different in the laws FL. USCG Rule 6 is a great place to start. From there, just know the local rules for PFD use, towing skiers and other devices, and the aforementioned 150' rule. The navigation is a little different on the lakes. Most of it can be found at this site,

http://www.boat-ed.com/nh/handbook/

Nothing real weird or mysterious. The USPS course is far more extensive, and one that I would recommend everyone take. For new boaters, Probably the very best training can come from a friend or boat dealer, ON THE LAKE.

[NonVoting Taxpayer]

Mr V
In Oregon as of 2009 you are required to have a boating certificate just like NH to operate a powerboat. You can take it online and it also will be good in NH. Go to www.boat-ed.com for more information on taking the course in Oregon. This way you don't waste one of your days.
There will be some who are going to say an on-line course is not valid in NH but as long as your state allows them online they are good here also.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by NonVoting Taxpayer

Mr V
In Oregon as of 2009 you are required to have a boating certificate just like NH to operate a powerboat. You can take it online and it also will be good in NH. Go to www.boat-ed.com for more information on taking the course in Oregon. This way you don't waste one of your days.
There will be some who are going to say an on-line course is not valid in NH but as long as your state allows them online they are good here also.

Are you sure about that?? See below...

"Beginning January 1, 2007, New Hampshire law requires that everyone pass a proctored, in-person exam in order to apply for the required New Hampshire Safe Boater Education Certificate issued by the New Hampshire Department of Safety. Once you have obtained your New Hampshire Safe Boater Education Certificate, you have fulfilled the requirements of the law."

I may be completely wrong but If I read this law correctly, out of state non proctored in person exams issued after January 1, 2007 are not accepted in NH, or is this a loop hole for out of state residents and only required for NH residents??

How do you read this??

Just curious;

Dan

[Airwaves]

To follow the letter of the law a proctored exam is required. In reality I don't think that out of state certificates indicate whether or not the exam was proctored or taken online, so the only thing the NHMP can look for is whether it is issued by the USPS or USCGAux (both proctored exams) or by another state that has the NASBLA seal.

I do NOT believe NH honors certificates issued by private companies even if they are NASBLA approved. An example would be Boat/US or Boat Wise.

[NoBozo]

My NASBLA Card obtained in Rhode Island ..(two years ago) specifically says the exam was Proctored. It certainly was. An on line TEST was NOT an option. Your Full Name and Date of Birth are printed on the back of the card.. after you pass the test. There is no "License Number," or Serial Number, or Expiration date on the card.

Prior to the Proctored exam, you could take as many Practice Tests on line as you wished, and each time you took one...the question set was different. After each test you would be scored, which gave you an idea how good you were. If you got a question wrong you would be directed to a Topic in the textbook where you might find your error. Then you go back and read the book Again.
These tests did not count for anything. They were just for practice. NB

PS: For those unfamiliar with the term: A Proctored Exam means you are in a Hall taking the exam with a lot of other people... and "Proctors' ...are roaming around....looking over your shoulder making sure you don't Cheat. This is common practice in College.

[webmaster]

This quote from an earlier thread may be helpful:

NH law does say that an out-of-state certificate must meet or exceed the NH requirements. Since NH did not allow online testing after 1/1/07 it technically shouldn't allow certificates obtained online in other states after that date. HOWEVER, the Marine Patrol has declared that their officers can not be involved in determining those nuances during a stop. Some out-of-state certificates obtained online do not say so. Every state's certificates and requirements are somewhat different. Because of this the Marine Patrol has confirmed that any government issued NASBLA approved certificate or license will be accepted by them, no matter how it was obtained. You can confirm that by calling the MP.

[KTO]

Plus it's good for the rest of your life...soooo

If you plan on coming back next year and the year after that and for the next 20+ years...then that's really 40+ weeks you're spending on the lake. Pretttyyyy significant.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by KTO

Plus it's good for the rest of your life...soooo

If you plan on coming back next year and the year after that and for the next 20+ years...then that's really 40+ weeks you're spending on the lake. Pretttyyyy significant.

I'm sure there was debate about the 150 rule when it was established, then rafting restrictions, then the boater certificate requirements, now a speed limit. So what is enough for the Depends wearing crowd?

I think a good battle to restrict any development on the lake shore on environmental grounds would go a long way to curbing the "legislative feature creeping"........ I think a lot of this stuff comes from retired nannies who sit around the lake and do nothing but belly ache that they don't have exclusivity with the view from their little shanty.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by KTO

Plus it's good for the rest of your life...

Ha, I wish I could remember how many times I have been told that only to see such promises fall off the table,,,

I think they should add a line at the end of any rule that uses the term life to define just what "life" means,,,

Life of the person, Life of the group who lobbied for the rule, Life of the guy who wrote the rule, Life of the rule (which "They" can change at ANY time) Life of the word "Life" (until they come up with a new term to replace it with,,)

Sorry I dont have a lot of faith in such promises, if there is money to be made or some group with an agenda and $$ behind them I can assure you the term "Life" will mean anything but FOREVER! (Just ask any Massachusetts FID card holder,,, )

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Ha, I wish I could remember how many times I have been told that only to see such promises fall off the table,,,

I think they should add a line at the end of any rule that uses the term life to define just what "life" means,,,

Life of the person, Life of the group who lobbied for the rule, Life of the guy who wrote the rule, Life of the rule (which "They" can change at ANY time) Life of the word "Life" (until they come up with a new term to replace it with,,)

Sorry I dont have a lot of faith in such promises, if there is money to be made or some group with an agenda and $$ behind them I can assure you the term "Life" will mean anything but FOREVER! (Just ask any Massachusetts FID card holder,,, )

Exactly!! The next order of business is for the mamby pambys to say people need refresher training on boating laws.

[tis]

Thinking the same thing as you, I saved the paper that said you will never have to take the course again. However, I know it won't matter if and when they decide we have to it every few years or so.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

I think a lot of this stuff comes from retired nannies who sit around the lake and do nothing but belly ache that they don't have exclusivity with the view from their little shanty.

You have absolutely no idea how accurate that statement is, in general.

[jonfinn]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

You don't understand.

It is not because I crave adventure that I ask the question, and presuppose a willingness to take the risk.

It is because the cost of a ticket is less than the cost of taking the course, if you factor time spent with it.

Fifty bucks, that's nothing.

Heck, I sometimes risk more than that on one roll of the dice at a craps table.

Why should piloting a boat be any different?

Reading this thread, I'm reminded of an old saying, "He who is good with a hammer thinks everything is a nail."

Mr. V raises a good point: If the price of the ticket is about the same as taking the course, why take the course? After all, how hard can it be to operate a boat? Isn't it pretty much like driving a car?

Everyone else is saying: If you don't take the course, you're presenting yourself as a danger to everyone else.

Most experienced boaters (myself included) get a bit OCD about caring for their boats, navigation, planning and safety. Why? Because most understand how quickly you can get in to deep, even life-threatening trouble.

My advice (since you did ask) is to take the course. Or if that's too much trouble, hire someone to captain your boat for you.

It's soooo not about effective time-management. right?