Mooring Whips - Good or Bad

[feb]

I'm finally getting a boat and am not comfortable leaving it tied to my dock each week while I'm away. My area receives it's share of wind and boat wakes so I am thinking of getting a set of mooring whips to keep the boat a safe distance from the dock and just let it bob around in the wind and wakes. It seems straight forward but do these whips really work well or are they not worth the money they cost? For the dock lines that go from the boat to the dock to keep the boat close, is it preferred to use regular rope or am I better off to use some of that stretchy rope that has some give and pull to it?

Thanks,
Frank.

[Merrymeeting]

Hi Feb,

I am on the east end of Merrymeeting so we often get high wind and waves coming directly at us. We have whips and they work great. I would highly recommend them. Without, our boat would be constantly slamming against the dock.

I do still put the boat out at our mooring if we will be gone for long periods.

[boat_guy64]

I am in Meredith Bay and we get a lot of boat chop on weekends. We have 35 slips in our development and as I walk down the docks, you can easily see how damaged the lines are that don't use mooring snubbers. They save wear and tear on the boat, lines and docks. I found that overton's had them for about 1/2 price compared to the local marinas. I use the 1/2 inch version. I've noticed that the 3/8 inch version doesn't seem to last due of the amount of chop that we get in Meredith Bay.

[OCDACTIVE]

I am a BIG fan of whips. I have seen a microburst turn my runabout perpendicular to the dock and the whip hold fast and not break.

As far as cost, size etc. It all depends on the size and weight of your boat.

I would recommend Overtons. They have a wide variety and spare parts (if needed if you want to transplant them to another dock) for the future.

They have a graph as to the size of whips needed to support different weighted boats. I personally went with the largest. My boat fully loaded should weigh around 6K lbs. But for an extra $200 I got the ones that will support up to 20K lbs. This way I know they can handle anything, even a microburst.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Our boat takes what The Broads dish out quite well with our whips.
I did my research and went with ones that were over-sized for our boat as well as very well made.
They've been on our dock since 2003 and still work great!

I'm quite sure they are from Mooring Products International.


The comparison shot really made my decision.



If we have enough warning of a serious incoming storm, we do tie off the right front of the boat to a tree on shore.
This is because on rare occasions the wind and waves come in at just the right direction that the boat can kiss the dock. Even though it's on the whips.
We have a bumper on the dock post that gets hit... just in case.

[Gatto Nero]

Absolutely worth the money. I use Taylor Made. I believe I got them from Overton's. If I were to do it again I would spend the extra cash and get the ones with the Rocker Base, the option that has the whips stand straight up when not in use as opposed to leaning over the water. The reason is that I always have my bimini up and sometimes it will catch on a whip line as I'm docking.

[LIforrelaxin]

Well I will not debate which ones are the right ones to buy, I will say that whips are well worth the investment. I used to put a h shape dock in to keep my boat from smacking the dock all the time. Then one year I decided I was done with the extra work went out and spent the $$ on the whips. I bought oversized whips more inline with anything I could see myself owning in the future. I think mine are rated for like a 8,000 lbs boat. can't remember exactly.

The bottom line is this. My dock takes less of a beating, so does my boat.

As for lines I would suggest getting high quality lines. The braided lines work much better, and with the whips I don't see a need for the snubbers. I have had my lines and whips for 5 years now. The whips look new of course. And after five years I am thinking about replacing the lines finally, but they have held up just fine.

What I do suggest is that if you get whips plan on getting a set of lines that you tie to the dock and leave. So that you are not having to adjust them. I believe this has also some what helped save one the wear and tear of my dock lines. I tie them at the beginning of the year, and only adjust them once or twice.

It means an extra set of dock lines but I felt it was worth it.

[Hezman]

Have had the same Taylor mooring whips on my dock since 1993 and they have protected both the boat and dock for all of these years. They are still in great condition despite being on the outboard side of a T-dock. One area that I concentrated on was making sure that the stern and bow dock lines, as well as the cross-tie lines keep the boat parallel to the dock at all times. This set-up will provide maximum performance and longevity of the whips.

[Bear Islander]

I use whips and think they are great. When you install them don't bolt them to a single dock plank. Either lag bolt them into a main beam or place a 2x6 piece of wood a couple of feet long under the dock planks and through bolt them. Otherwise you may end up with twisted planks.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I use whips and think they are great. When you install them don't bolt them to a single dock plank. Either lag bolt them into a main beam or place a 2x6 piece of wood a couple of feet long under the dock planks and through bolt them. Otherwise you may end up with twisted planks.

X 2!

better yet 4x4 piece under with rebar / bolt straight into the dock (that is if you have a crib dock)

[EllyPoinster]

Another thumbs up for whips. In 2008 we had a tornado rip right right across our point either uprooting or snapping almost all the trees. BIG TREES! One whip base was pulled out of the dock (held in place by three good-sized lag bolts) but otherwise the whips were undamaged and neither was the boat.

I got mine from Overton's too (Dockmate brand). One piece of advice: don't go with the 8-footers unless you have a small boat. You really need the 12-footers to get the necessary clearance from the dock and handle the weight of a larger boat.

Overton's Dockmate mooring whip page is here.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I use whips and think they are great. When you install them don't bolt them to a single dock plank. Either lag bolt them into a main beam or place a 2x6 piece of wood a couple of feet long under the dock planks and through bolt them. Otherwise you may end up with twisted planks.

Ummmm yes good point BI... I used the perpendicular plank method underneath. It has worked fine for me. I have also seen some installations where they have been installed lagged into the wooden 4X4 support posts of a dock.

I also want to second Elly's comment about the length of the whips. They have short whips for small boats. They will hold off the advertised wieght however there are clearance issue.

[michael]

i have used mooring whips for years. as my newer boats grew larger, had to move from one piece to two piece. last year do to the recent depression, was able to upgrade my slip, where i no longer need whips. took my two piece 16' "monarch" mooring whips off of my weirs beach slip/dock, and refurbished them by fine grit sanding, and spraying with 4 or 5 coats of paint that cost me $60. bucks ( i believe 6 spray cans). the whips have protected a 28.5 sailboat, and my most recent used 25' carver (6000 lbs). In combination with fenders attached to dock, they protected my boats from some of the worst boat chop that can be handed out at weirs beach location. i would sell these whips for $350. if someone is seriously interested, because that was my intent when i invested 12 hours of labor , plus the cost of paint materials. if interested call 4136840030, and leave a phone # , and will get back to.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

This has worked very well for us to allow easy in and out for the winter while providing a very solid grab on the wooden dock joist. (As described above)

[Merrymeeting]

The rocker bases look like they would solve the problem I have avoiding the hanging whips while docking. But the price just for the bases...

[NoBozo]

In addition to whips and docklines permanently attached to the dock, I use (Two) 10x26 inch "vertically hanging" Fenders, also permanently attached to the dock. They are VERY Oversize, and way too big to carry in the boat. The boat is 20' long and weighs 2700#. I bought my fenders at a second hand marine consignment store. NB

West Marine Catalog
:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...classNum=10433

[LIforrelaxin]

A few posts above is someone with used whips. I also know that center harbor dock and pier sometimes has used whips in stock. When I was looking for mine, the had of course with my luck, the smaller set used, and the OHHH my good way to over kill set used.... but not the size I wanted. I don't recall the discount involved, had the been appropriately sized for me though, I do recall it be a worth while discount.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Our whips came with instructions that made a big deal about the lines that hold the boat aligned but cushioned to the dock. The suggested method was called (if I remember) the collapsing triangle method. It allows the boat to bounce around as it needs to but limits the front to back movement. The triangles shown in two different colors collapse and tighten over and over as the whips try to pull the boat in the direction of the two arrows. It seems to work well for us.

[Grady223]

Monarch mooring whips are the finest out there. Here is their website: http://www.monarchproducts.com/monarch.htm. Call them, you speak to the owner / inventor himself (800-793-3833).

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

Our whips came with instructions that made a big deal about the lines that hold the boat aligned but cushioned to the dock. The suggested method was called (if I remember) the collapsing triangle method. It allows the boat to bounce around as it needs to but limits the front to back movement. The triangles shown in two different colors collapse and tighten over and over as the whips try to pull the boat in the direction of the two arrows. It seems to work well for us.

This is why as befored mentioned I set my lines and leave them attached to the dock... I get the lines they way I want them before boating gets heavy on the lake, and then we are all set for the summer.

[lakershaker]

has anyone had luck using these on the crank-up style aluminum docks? I have wanted to use them given the high wind we have, but was reluctant to drill through the metal beams. Also, since the dock just sits on the lake bed, would that torque be too much on the shore hinge? I don't want to destroy my dock in trying to save my boat...

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by lakershaker

has anyone had luck using these on the crank-up style aluminum docks? I have wanted to use them given the high wind we have, but was reluctant to drill through the metal beams. Also, since the dock just sits on the lake bed, would that torque be too much on the shore hinge? I don't want to destroy my dock in trying to save my boat...

I would NOT use Whips on a Light Weight aluminum dock that just sits on the bottom. I think in robust conditions the dock could TIP OVER.

The MOORING ..is the BEST Place for ANY boat that might be subjected to any wind or wake driven Wave action. Use the mooring for times when you are Not there to keep a careful eye on the ongoing conditions. When you ARE there..you can use the dock....acording to the conditions. When you are away for a day or two..put the boat out on the mooring.

In Short: If you only come up on weekends, put the boat out on the mooring if there is any doubt in your mind about the safety of the boat at the dock. NB

PS: It may not be obvious to those not acustomed to dealing with boats: A boat on a mooring will "Weathercock"..head into the wind and waves.......something that a boat at the dock Can Not do.

[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by lakershaker

has anyone had luck using these on the crank-up style aluminum docks? I have wanted to use them given the high wind we have, but was reluctant to drill through the metal beams. Also, since the dock just sits on the lake bed, would that torque be too much on the shore hinge? I don't want to destroy my dock in trying to save my boat...

I have the whips mounted on my Floe Aluminum dock. I fabricated some plates for extra strength underneath. I have been intrigued by all of the positive responses. My experience using them has been less than good and I have my dock lines just as illustrated earlier in this thread. Must be operator error.

BT

[Gatto Nero]

Originally Posted by lakershaker

has anyone had luck using these on the crank-up style aluminum docks? I have wanted to use them given the high wind we have, but was reluctant to drill through the metal beams. Also, since the dock just sits on the lake bed, would that torque be too much on the shore hinge? I don't want to destroy my dock in trying to save my boat...

I have whips on my aluminum crank-up and they work fine. The whips take most of the energy of the wind and waves and actually helps saves my dock as well as my boat. Without the whips by boat would crash into the dock and shake it, and anyone on it, to the core. With the whips there is no detectable movement. I do go through the metal beams and I support it would additional 4x4 underneath.

BT, I'm curious as to what problems you have experienced.

[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by Gatto Nero

BT, I'm curious as to what problems you have experienced.

I have the 2 piece oversized whips for my 24 ft FW. I have the lines connected to my dock as shown in RattesnakeGuy's illustration. I also added a spring line for extra measure to make sure that there is no forward and backwards movement and the whips stay straight as required. It doesn't take much chop to get the boat bobbing and weaving enough that I chicken out and move it to safety. Kind of defeats the purpose of the investment.

Blue Thunder

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Blue Thunder

I have the 2 piece oversized whips for my 24 ft FW. I have the lines connected to my dock as shown in RattesnakeGuy's illustration. I also added a spring line for extra measure to make sure that there is no forward and backwards movement and the whips stay straight as required. It doesn't take much chop to get the boat bobbing and weaving enough that I chicken out and move it to safety. Kind of defeats the purpose of the investment.

Blue Thunder

Bob and weave it might but does it crash into the dock ? We use whips but only for our PWC as there's not enough slip width to use them for the boat. The PWC bobs up 'n' down but stays away from the dock. In your case you might want to place a couple of fenders on the dock as well. Whips + fenders have to be better than fenders alone, as NB has already noted.

BTW : Did you adjust the lines to put the whips under the proper amount of pretension ?

[Gatto Nero]

Originally Posted by Blue Thunder

I have the 2 piece oversized whips for my 24 ft FW. I have the lines connected to my dock as shown in RattesnakeGuy's illustration. I also added a spring line for extra measure to make sure that there is no forward and backwards movement and the whips stay straight as required. It doesn't take much chop to get the boat bobbing and weaving enough that I chicken out and move it to safety. Kind of defeats the purpose of the investment.

Blue Thunder

I have pretty much the same setup, with a 24' FW as well. It certainly does bob and weave but as long as its not hitting the dock I think that's what its supposed to do. One mistake that I have seen is to attach the lines on the opposite (starboard on Rattlesnake Guy's drawing) side of the boat. That wold seem to make the whips pretty much useless.

[townsde]

I have a 24 foot Four Winns and I am using Monarch 18 foot whips on it. I thought the triangle shown in the earlier posts was what I call spring lines. Run one spring line from the bow to the dock aft of the boat and another spring line from the stern to the dock forward of the bow. Then I use a seperate bow line and stern line tied perpendicular to the dock. The whips keep the boat off the dock. The spring lines keep it from moving forward or backward. The bow and stern lines are extra insurance in case something breaks. This is working great so far with no problems.

I also have an 18 foot bass boat which I use 12 foot Monarch whips on it with the same system. It is on the leeward side of the dock and takes more wind and waves when the wind is from the northwest. I have to set the whips so it is farther from the dock to keep it from hitting the dock.

I like the Morarch whips because the bracket with them is adjustable and can be set at different angles depending on how far you want to keep your boat from the dock.

Once all the lines are set you do not have to re adjust them each time.

I dont know how I would keep the boats at the dock from being destroyed without the whips.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

As said, bobbing and weaving is what you want to happen. The energy is being smoothly absorbed by the rocking boat. The dock is not taking the hit and the boat cleats are happy. If the boat is not hitting anything it is working correctly. It is why the whip poles are flexible.

[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

Bob and weave it might but does it crash into the dock ? We use whips but only for our PWC as there's not enough slip width to use them for the boat. The PWC bobs up 'n' down but stays away from the dock. In your case you might want to place a couple of fenders on the dock as well. Whips + fenders have to be better than fenders alone, as NB has already noted.

BTW : Did you adjust the lines to put the whips under the proper amount of pretension ?

Bobbing and weaving was a general statement. What I mean is that I feel like I have it all adjusted properly, spring lines, bow and stern lines and the tension. When there is a decent chop or boat wakes the bow and stern seem to alternate getting close to the dock to the point that I move the boat to keep it from POSSIBLY hitting. The real problem here is when it is blowing and choppy, it is very difficult to unhook everything and get away from the dock without damaging something...especially alone.
Don't waste your time on me guys...I'll figure it out somehow this year. My wife just said last night "are you going to use those expensive whips I bought you 2 years ago?" You probably can figure out the answer I gave her...

BT

[Yes, Dear]

Originally Posted by Blue Thunder

My wife just said last night "are you going to use those expensive whips I bought you 2 years ago?" You probably can figure out the answer I gave her...

BT

Yes, Dear?????

[John A. Birdsall]

I have a mooring for the boat, and it works well, But just remember that you have to have a permit to have a mooring, as well as a certain amount of lake frontage, without that amount of frontage you need the ok from abutting property owners to put one in. and then its a 25.00 per mooring fee for a year use.

I have thought about using whips on the boat, but am concerned that the dock would take a beating since it is not a permanent dock.

[Gatto Nero]

Originally Posted by John A. Birdsall

I have thought about using whips on the boat, but am concerned that the dock would take a beating since it is not a permanent dock.

Don't know what your actual situation is, but like I said above, I have an aluminum crank-up dock and I believe the dock is in better shape with the whips than without. The whips absorb the beating that would otherwise occur. It's similar to how snubbers absorb the beating on a "U" Shaped dock. At my last place I was on a community dock with slips that could be tied off on both sides of the boat. My 4000 lbs boat with snubbers was fine but the guy next to me with a 12' aluminum boat and no snubbers used to beat the crap out of the dock. You could see and feel the pylons rattle when the boat got to the end of the line yanked the whole dock. Besides, taking the boat on and off the mooring every time you want to use it is a major PITA.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Originally Posted by Blue Thunder

Bobbing and weaving was a general statement. What I mean is that I feel like I have it all adjusted properly, spring lines, bow and stern lines and the tension. When there is a decent chop or boat wakes the bow and stern seem to alternate getting close to the dock to the point that I move the boat to keep it from POSSIBLY hitting. The real problem here is when it is blowing and choppy, it is very difficult to unhook everything and get away from the dock without damaging something...especially alone.
Don't waste your time on me guys...I'll figure it out somehow this year. My wife just said last night "are you going to use those expensive whips I bought you 2 years ago?" You probably can figure out the answer I gave her...

BT

BT
Best guess is you do not have enough tension on the whip lines. RG does not have enough strength to properly tension. When the kids were younger they could not pull the lines either. I would estimate that we pull about 70 - 80 lbs on the lines. We are on the broads and can get some good wind and waves. Once or twice a season, we have trouble with the whips not being enough to keep the front away from the dock. We have to supplement with a line to a tree on shore.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

"...I would NOT use Whips on a Light Weight aluminum dock that just sits on the bottom. I think in robust conditions the dock could TIP OVER.

The MOORING ..is the BEST Place for ANY boat that might be subjected to any wind or wake driven Wave action..."

Just a few thoughts about mooring whips, moorings and spring lines:

1) We make it a point to dock our heaviest boat with the bow "facing the action". (The stern offers too much area to incoming wakes—wakes have caused our dock lines to part and wakes remain our biggest problem).

2) The effectiveness of spring lines is influenced by the diameter and construction of those lines.

Nylon is "stretchy", especially in the smaller diameters (what I use). Some lines have no stretch at all: watch the "action", and decide for yourself which is best for your situation.

Polypropylene-constructed lines, IMHO, shouldn't be used for anything serious around boats.

3) Regarding lightweight aluminum docks:

Depending on the depth at your dock, your unused mooring line can be extended from the mooring and secured to the "outermost" hardware on your docked boat. Because the mooring line is heavy and long (and should have some chain on it) it becomes an extra-sturdy snubber that will take the worst punches that a lake can throw at your docked boat.

Secure it loosely to your dock for re-use later.

ETA:

In an effort to keep my shoreline intact—and although it will eventually result in a reduced view of the lake—notice the White Pine tree I planted at the shoreline about six years ago.

Back to our wake problem:

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Just a few thoughts about mooring whips, moorings and spring lines:

1) We make it a point to dock our heaviest boat with the bow "facing the action". (The stern offers too much area to incoming wakes—wakes have caused our dock lines to part and wakes remain our biggest problem).

2) The effectiveness of spring lines is influenced by the diameter and construction of those lines.

Nylon is "stretchy", especially in the smaller diameters (what I use). Some lines have no stretch at all: watch the "action", and decide for yourself which is best for your situation.

Polypropylene-constructed lines, IMHO, shouldn't be used for anything serious around boats.

3) Regarding lightweight aluminum docks:

Depending on the depth at your dock, your unused mooring line can be extended from the mooring and secured to the "outermost" hardware on your docked boat. Because the mooring line is heavy and long (and should have some chain on it) it becomes an extra-sturdy snubber that will take the worst punches that a lake can throw at your docked boat.

Secure it loosely to your dock for re-use later.

Our wake problem:

APS: You have a problem with wakes at your dock. I would be reluctant to leave a boat at that dock.

There is an alternative. Have a mooring out away from the dock. Have a "Warp" line out to the mooring so you can haul the boat out to the mooring from the dock when you are not using it. When you want to use the boat just haul the "Warp" back in to the dock with the boat in tow. No need to have another boat to "GO Out" to get the boat. No need for whips.

A Warp Line is like an old fashioned "reeled" clothes line... that can reeled out away from the house... and reeled back in when you want to retrieve the clothes off the line. NB

[ApS]

One of my tenants has actually been injured here while working on his mooring whip-equipped boat!

Yes, we have a "recent" wake problem and have to "double-up" on dock lines or put our largest boat on the mooring. Fortunately, it's mostly just weekends.

The exposure here is such that a warp-line gets snagged with any change of wind. (One line becomes "loaded", such that it is brought closer to the surface than the other line). Warp-lines work best on dinghies without rudders or propellers: our smaller boats just get pulled out of the water.

Now I have a question for a seasoned ocean sailor that relates to whips, wind, and wakes. (To simplify, leave off "spray" from the equation).

If that photographed wake was "normal wave action" from wind, what would you estimate the period and frequency to be? For reference, the dock is five-feet wide, and that is a wake from one boat.

[sea_n_ski]

They are a great invention. I used whips for a couple of seasons and was very happy with them. They handled my 20 foot Malibu with no problem even in high winds and waves. This year I am putting in boat lifts, because I want to keep the bottom of the boat clean and my inboard is too difficult to dock for my children. If anyone wants my old whips ( couple years old) drop me a line. I bought them at Overtons: http://www.overtons.com/modperl/prod...s&merchID=4005

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

The exposure here is such that a warp-line gets snagged with any change of wind. (One line becomes "loaded", such that it is brought closer to the surface than the other line). Warp-lines work best on dinghies without rudders or propellers: our smaller boats just get pulled out of the water.one boat.

APS: That is an Excellent point that I had not considered. SO: Think of some way you can attach a "Sentinal' to the warp to keep it low enough to avoid the interference with props, outdrives, rudders, etc NB

PS: "Chapmans" has stuff on Sentinals I think.

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Now I have a question for a seasoned ocean sailor that relates to whips, wind, and wakes. (To simplify, leave off "spray" from the equation).

If that photographed wake was "normal wave action" from wind, what would you estimate the period and frequency to be? For reference, the dock is five-feet wide, and that is a wake from one boat.

As a seasoned Ocean Sailor I feel Must step foreward.

If that were my dock.... and that was Normal wave action and frequency......as I understand it.....Frequency being the time in Seconds ..from Crest to Crest....as the waves roll by...........

I would build a breakwater. NB

[Gatto Nero]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

As a seasoned Ocean Sailor I feel Must step foreward.

If that were my dock.... and that was Normal wave action and frequency......as I understand it.....Frequency being the time in Seconds ..from Crest to Crest....as the waves roll by...........

I would build a breakwater. NB

Good luck with that. I finally got permitted for mine but it took about 5 years,