Illegal use of HP placard at Wolfeboro Town dock

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

One of the Wolfeboro town docks is posted as a Handicapped (HP) dock. This is another example of “feel good” issues that may not have been thoroughly thought out. How can you designate that your boat is entitled to use a handicapped dock? The obvious answer is to use your handicapped placard issued for your car. But wait. According to the Massachusetts Registry of Motor Vehicles (they issued my HP placard) it is illegal to use a MA HP placard on a boat. Not that I expect the MA police or SWAT team to come to Wolfeboro to punish violators.

What about a NH issued HP placard? NH Division of Motor Vehicles answered the question a bit more gently. They say that there is NO provision in the law to allow the use of a NH issued HP placard on a boat. In other words, it is NOT one of the allowable uses of the NH HP placard.

One of our forum members received a $250 violation ticket for docking at the HP dock without proper HP designation. He caught up with the issuing officer and was able to talk him into changing the written citation to a written warning. You can see the ticket by going to this post and clicking on the .pdf attachment in THIS POST. Note that in the remarks section it mentions displaying a placard.

The thread discussing the basic idea of a Handicapped access dock can be found HERE .

Like some other “feel good” legislation (that I won’t mention here) this seems to be an attempt at something well intentioned but is ill conceived. The Wolfeboro HP dock offers nothing I can see to help a handicapped person (other than a short or no wait). No accommodations to make it easier to get on or off the boat, no wheelchair access, no easier way to tie off the boat, no seats for rest after climbing out of your boat, no short walk to rest rooms or anything else. No supplemental oxygen, nothing. I don’t see how it is of benefit to the handicapped. I digress though as this post is not to discuss the rational behind the law but to inform readers that the use of the MA and NH HP placard on your boat is illegal.

[Airwaves]

And FACTs matter how? "I feel better knowing it's there!"

[DEJ]

The border greeting should be changed from "Live Free or Die" to "Welcome to Northern Massachusetts".

[sunset on the dock]

I'd be one of the first to agree that some of the handicapped designations and concessions have gone way out of bounds. In the case of the Wolfeboro town docks I am aware of the very elderly and deserving couple who summered on one of Wolfeboro's islands for many years and now needed all the help they could get to continue to do so for the years they were still able to come to the lake. With a little help from others they were able to continue to visit and stay on the lake they loved for so many years. That is one handicapped parking designation I could never begrudge.

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by SoD

I'd be one of the first to agree that some of the handicapped designations and concessions have gone way out of bounds. In the case of the Wolfeboro town docks I am aware of the very elderly and deserving couple who summered on one of Wolfeboro's islands for many years and now needed all the help they could get to continue to do so for the years they were still able to come to the lake. With a little help from others they were able to continue to visit and stay on the lake they loved for so many years. That is one handicapped parking designation I could never begrudge.

They may be exactly who the town had in mind, however there is no legal way for them to show their handicapped status on a boat in NH. (Can't use Motor Vehicle placards on a boat)

From Skipper of the Sea Que

According to the Massachusetts Registry of Motor Vehicles (they issued my HP placard) it is illegal to use a MA HP placard on a boat.
>snip<
What about a NH issued HP placard? NH Division of Motor Vehicles answered the question a bit more gently. They say that there is NO provision in the law to allow the use of a NH issued HP placard on a boat.

Without mechanical devices on the dock to aid them in or out of the boat, which is not legally designated handicapped, how is the spot aiding the handicapped? You would never begrudge them what?

Making up rules and laws as we go along?

[Rattlesnake Guy]

In reality, if I can't park at the handicap spots, I am forced to take better spots closer to the sidewalk so skipper has a lesser chance of getting a close spot. I don't feel good. It is like a store putting the handicap spots on the far side of the parking lot. To what goal or advantage??

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

Without mechanical devices on the dock to aid them in or out of the boat, which is not legally designated handicapped, how is the spot aiding the handicapped? You would never begrudge them what?

Making up rules and laws as we go along?

I would imagine those "mechanical devices" might be helpful family members who also might have pulled the family car into close range of said handicapped spot. C'mon, give some older person a break...why be so negative towards someone who is trying to get by (and just barely)on a day to day basis.

[Mee-n-Mac]

So what rules are being enforced ? If the town has "altered" the docks since the passing of the ADA then it's required to bring the docks into compliance. Alternately they may just be trying to being as reasonably compliant as they can (even if not req'd by law) and it would be nice to know what the rules are. It was asked how many slips are "handicapped" and what length are they. Well this chart says how many must be "accessible" per the ADA but is Wolfeboro making their own rules ?



I note that the 2'nd reference (below) uses 40' as the length of a slip in determining the number of slips above but is that also the length of each reserved slip ? (guess we got a lot of diasbled GFBL'ers in town).

Lastly, and most importantly (IMO), what's Wolfeboro's rule regarding usage of Wolfeboro's reserved slips. Are they following the ADA guidelines which state ...

"Accessible boat slips do not need to be marked and are not reserved in the same way as accessible vehicle parking spaces. For example, facilities should hold the accessible slips open for persons with disabilities until all other slips are filled. At that point, the slip may be made available for general use."

Or are they handing out tickets to any "able" person who uses the reserved slips no matter what the fullness of the town docks is ? So who's making what rules ?

ADA references ...

http://www.access-board.gov/adaag/ht...N%20FACILITIES.
http://www.access-board.gov/Recreati...es/boating.htm

[lawn psycho]

If you can climb into a boat at a dock, you ain't handicapped IMO. It's not about cutting anyone a "break".

Getting into a boat is not about accessibility since they aren't set-up that way. If you can climb into a boat it's almost like making a disclaimer that you have sufficient mobility to not require ANY handicapped placard.

If you have an issue with ability to climb into your boat then spend the money to make it easier on you and equip your boat as you see fit. An extra 200 feet of walking the dock is not going to make a difference. Tying up multiple dock spaces for the very infrequent use of already limited dock space is selfish IMO.

Typical lazy American style shines though again where nobody is reponsible for themselves and everyone else should bow to "my" needs........

If I go to the docks and the only empty spots are the handicapped spots, I know where I'll be tying up

[jrc]

Sunset,

The handicapped dock is the furthest from the parking lot and has no mechnical devices to aid people. That's why it doesn't seem right.

It would be more understandable if it was close to the parking lot and had a hoyer lift, ramp or other aids.

Since there is no legal way to park there, it will remain empty, as it is most of the time. I guess if you park there you must be prepared to prove to the police that you are handicapped enough.

When I bring my handicapped family members, we can't use the spot because their placard is in their car in the handicapped spot at the marina.

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by SOD

I would imagine those "mechanical devices" might be helpful family members who also might have pulled the family car into close range of said handicapped spot. C'mon, give some older person a break...why be so negative towards someone who is trying to get by (and just barely)on a day to day basis.

Actually no.

I have a nephew with a neuromuscular disease who is confined to a wheelchair and as he grows older and larger his muscular ability deminishes! He sits (lives) in a 300lb electric wheelchair. Family members are not lifting him out of the boat at the Wolfeboro Docks! He needs a lift at our dock to get him and his only source of mobility, his chair, in and out of the boat.

Handicapped does not mean someone with a limp!

So if Wolfeboro is going to have a handicapped only docking space then the town needs to make sure it can actually accomidate a handicapped person with all the baggage that comes with being handicapped.

Putting up a sign doesn't cut it and since NH law does not provide for handicapped bow numbers it is nothing more than feel good crap. Sound familiar?

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

Originally posted by SOD
Actually no.

I have a nephew with a neuromuscular disease who is confined to a wheelchair and as he grows older and larger his muscular ability deminishes! He sits (lives) in a 300lb electric wheelchair. Family members are not lifting him out of the boat at the Wolfeboro Docks! He needs a lift at our dock to get him and his only source of mobility, his chair, in and out of the boat.

Handicapped does not mean someone with a limp!

So if Wolfeboro is going to have a handicapped only docking space then the town needs to make sure it can actually accomidate a handicapped person with all the baggage that comes with being handicapped.

Putting up a sign doesn't cut it and since NH law does not provide for handicapped bow numbers it is nothing more than feel good crap. Sound familiar?

So the town should provide a lift for a wheelchair bound person to board a boat? Say what? Do you have a life vest that will float him and the chair????? I guess the town or state should provide that too?

It's not a town's obligation to provide a lift for someone to get into and out of a boat. That's just ridiculus to think a town should be providing something like this.

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by lawn psycho

So the town should provide a lift for a wheelchair bound person to board a boat? Say what? Do you have a life vest that will float him and the chair????? I guess the town or state should provide that too?

It's not a town's obligation to provide a lift for someone to get into and out of a boat. That's just ridiculus to think a town should be providing something like this.

Yes, If the town is going to designate a Handicapped Docking Space on the publically owned town docks, then they need to provide a lift (a number of different types are readily available) at that space.

My nephew has a PFD so that if the boat goes down, along with his chair, he will float.

Again, yes if the town is going to specify that there is a handicapped dock then the town needs to accomidate handicapped people.

Unless of course in NH handicapped just means old with a limp.

[upthesaukee]

and that is what I just did. I sent an email to the town off their website, explaining that it is illegal to display auto placards from MA or NH (at least) on boat, and what do we use as boaters to indicate our need for handicap access docking.

If I get a reply, I will post it here.

As to whether the town should provide a lift...one step at a time. However, ADA can get pretty tough, and if you set up handicap access, you may need to provide equipment to be totally compliant. Railroads, for instance, have lifts at stations where the platform does not allow for same level entry from platform to train. Not saying Wolfeboro has to make these allowances, but it may have to if push came to shove with the ADA.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

and that is what I just did. I sent an email to the town off their website, explaining that it is illegal to display auto placards from MA or NH (at least) on boat, and what do we use as boaters to indicate our need for handicap access docking.

If I get a reply, I will post it here.

As to whether the town should provide a lift...one step at a time. However, ADA can get pretty tough, and if you set up handicap access, you may need to provide equipment to be totally compliant. Railroads, for instance, have lifts at stations where the platform does not allow for same level entry from platform to train. Not saying Wolfeboro has to make these allowances, but it may have to if push came to shove with the ADA.

ADA requirement? Nope. Just like a personal auto, the lift mechanism and adapted vehicle is the obligation of the vehicle owner. A lift is not the obligation of the town.

There's a point where you have personal responsibility. Why not ask the town to make the docks have "people movers" like at airports to get you to the parking lot? When will it end?

If you are going to ride around in a boat, it's your obligation to be able to get into and out of the thing. I think handicapped boat spots are ridiculus and yet another excuse for abuse.

Go to Duke University basketball games and they have an ENTIRE parking lot for handicapped parking. It's quite a walk into Cameron Indoor stadium even from that lot and yet they all seem to manage to get to their seats (with fairly steep steps) without any problems

And how many people do you know where they use their parents or grandparents placards. I say get rid of handicapped parking entirely.

[Kracken]

I went to the golf course last weekend as a single and got paired up with this guy in his mid to late 50s. He seemed like a nice enough guy, sprayed the ball off the tee so bad he needed a GPS to find his way back to the fairway (so he did a lot of extra walking). After spending four and a half hours with this guy, I was very surprised and somewhat angry when I saw him jump into his SUV parked in the handicap space.

There is a lot of ill-will lately towards people receiving assistance largely due to the widespread abuse. It is not difficult to get a handicap plaque or for that matter unemployment, welfare, fuel assistance, and so on. I believe the majority of the public are decent people. I find it hard to believe anybody would begrudge a physically challenged person a parking space or slip or any other kind of assistance.

I don’t know if the users are just that selfish or don’t comprehend the consequences of their deeds. People who use the system aren’t just stealing from the tax-payers; they are taking from the very people who actually need assistance. I don’t mind paying taxes and giving assistance to aid the less fortunate and people in need but I get downright angry when I am funding the lazy and do-nothings of the world.

The town of Wolfeboro can make every accommodation and pass laws, impose fines and so on but there is no amount of legislation that will ever stop the ignorant and stupid.

[hancoveguy]

Where I am a Police Officer we take the handicap spaces seriously. So seriously in fact that if a handicap person with a placard doesn't post it properly they get the same $100 ticket that a non-handicap person would. The reason for this is that when the placard is not hung on on the mirror properly or the picture is covered or the form is not completely filled out and visible from the exterior of the vehicle it is usually because its not the rightful owner of the placard using it. In my professional experience, Handicap placards are misused and abused much more often by their owners or owner's families than the spaces are abused by non-handicap people. Logically speaking, it is utterly preposterous to have a handicap dock. This falls in line with drive up ATM's that have Braille on the keys, duh!! Why aren't ski lifts handicap accessible or ATV's? Why don't jet ski's come with a wheel chair lift?

It is terribly unfortunate that there are handicap people in the world and I believe that every effort should be made to give them access to necessities ie public stores, buildings, transit etc. I also believe that when its reasonable and feasible, access should made available to recreational areas as well. But there are clearly logical limits to what handicap people can have access to. The dock is unreasonable and as it was stated in a previous post... if the handicap spot is the last spot available, guess where I am docking. I welcome the ticket as well the opportunity to appeal.


HCG

[offmycloud]

Those handicap spots in Wolfeboro are always empty. They are just an annoyance and slow people from coming ashore to spend money and thus hurt the economy. It's just another cheap attempt to be PC and allow the government to extort more money from people.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

and that is what I just did. I sent an email to the town off their website, explaining that it is illegal to display auto placards from MA or NH (at least) on boat, and what do we use as boaters to indicate our need for handicap access docking.

If I get a reply, I will post it here.

As to whether the town should provide a lift...one step at a time. However, ADA can get pretty tough, and if you set up handicap access, you may need to provide equipment to be totally compliant. Railroads, for instance, have lifts at stations where the platform does not allow for same level entry from platform to train. Not saying Wolfeboro has to make these allowances, but it may have to if push came to shove with the ADA.

If the Wolfeboro PTB deign to respond might I ask that you ask () what the wording of Chap 36, Sec 5, of the Town Code entitled 'Limitations on the use of Town docks, wharves, and ramps' specifically says. From the older thread on this topic it was supposed to be amended as follows:

"No boats, as defined in RSA 279:2, shall be docked in that area of the Town Docks designated as accessible docking, unless such boat displays a windshield placard issued under RSA 261:88 OR displays the international symbol of access.

Docking spaces designated as accessible shall be marked in accordance with the provisions of RSA 265:73-a, by affixing signs to posts, docks, or other areas so as to be clearly visible to anyone approaching the area by boat.

The accessible docking area shall be utilized only if a person with a disability is being transported in or is operating a boat to or from the docking area.

Any person convicted under this section shall be fined not less than $250.00"

Which to me indicates that Wolfeboro is enforcing a more strict set of rules than required by the ADA. As I've indicated before, the intent of the ADA rule wrt docking was to ensure access and use by disabled people. It wasn't intended to create a reserved set of slips. That's why the act uses the wording accessible vs reserved. If every slip at the town docks met the ADA requirements for accessibility then there would be no need for any reserved slips nor and signage. If only a few slips meet the accessibilty req's then there may be need for signage but again, as I've mentioned before, these aren't reserved for handicap people soley, they can be used (at least per the ADA) by the rest of us after the other slips become full. If Wolfeboro were to use this piece of commonsense then I bet very few would object.

I might ask that you ask () why Wolfeboro is persuing a more restricitive role than is required by the ADA.

If they even bother to respond.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

If the Wolfeboro PTB deign to respond might I ask that you ask () what the wording of Chap 36, Sec 5, of the Town Code entitled 'Limitations on the use of Town docks, wharves, and ramps' specifically says. From the older thread on this topic it was supposed to be amended as follows:

"No boats, as defined in RSA 279:2, shall be docked in that area of the Town Docks designated as accessible docking, unless such boat displays a windshield placard issued under RSA 261:88 OR displays the international symbol of access.

Docking spaces designated as accessible shall be marked in accordance with the provisions of RSA 265:73-a, by affixing signs to posts, docks, or other areas so as to be clearly visible to anyone approaching the area by boat.

The accessible docking area shall be utilized only if a person with a disability is being transported in or is operating a boat to or from the docking area.

Any person convicted under this section shall be fined not less than $250.00"

Which to me indicates that Wolfeboro is enforcing a more strict set of rules than required by the ADA. As I've indicated before, the intent of the ADA rule wrt docking was to ensure access and use by disabled people. It wasn't intended to create a reserved set of slips. That's why the act uses the wording accessible vs reserved. If every slip at the town docks met the ADA requirements for accessibility then there would be no need for any reserved slips nor and signage. If only a few slips meet the accessibilty req's then there may be need for signage but again, as I've mentioned before, these aren't reserved for handicap people soley, they can be used (at least per the ADA) by the rest of us after the other slips become full. If Wolfeboro were to use this piece of commonsense then I bet very few would object.

I might ask that you ask () why Wolfeboro is persuing a more restricitive role than is required by the ADA.

If they even bother to respond.

Something to keep in mind is that if the town issues the $250 ticket, they also have to collect it. It's not a state statute so the town is on their own to enforce and collect any fine.

[lawn psycho]

As best I can tell, any violation cited for "illegally" parking at a handicapped dock would not hold up in court as the handicapped provision ONLY applies to motor vehicles.

TITLE XXI
MOTOR VEHICLES
CHAPTER 265
RULES OF THE ROAD
Stopping, Standing or Parking
Section 265:73-a
265:73-a Parking Signs; Disabled. – A parking space on private or public property that is reserved for persons who are disabled shall be marked by a sign affixed to a post or a building. Said sign shall be clearly visible to anyone directly approaching that particular space.
Source. 1983, 50:1. 1990, 140:2, X, eff. June 18, 1990.

[jrc]

From Mee-n-Mac's post and the previous thread on the issue. The parking rule is based on a town ordinance, not a state law.

So I guess the Wolfeboro police can legally cite you for violating it. That should hold up in court. You could explain to the judge, all the things discussed here and maybe that would get you somewhere. But if cited, you either have to pay $250 or come to Wolfeboro mid-week to plead a case.

I'll just avoid Wolfeboro and shop/eat somewhere else. I'll vote with my dollars.

[fpartri497]

Originally Posted by DEJ

The border greeting should be changed from "Live Free or Die" to "Welcome to Northern Massachusetts".

bite your tounge please

[upthesaukee]

Basically, if Wolfeboro does respond to me, I will post the response. I just shake my head a little because we all tend to talk around issues, but don't go to the source. So I thought I would try to go to the source. If they give me an answer and I feel it is enough for me,I will post it and that will be the end of my involvement.
I have no feeling here at all. I go to Wolfeboro by boat, if it is crowded, I may sit there for awhile to see if anything opens up. If the handicap access is wide open and nothing else is, and my wife and I don't feel like waiting, guess what!!! We are out of there, and we will spend our money elsewhere. No hard feelings, no stress. It will probably be a nice day for a boat ride anyway.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

America-where you can get a handicap placard to save 75' of walking prior to entering the long aisles of Wal-Mart

Maybe you are unaware, but every Wal-Mart has a people greeter stationed at the entrance who watches the store, and will help with a battery powered, go-kart style shopping cart.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Maybe you are unaware, but every Wal-Mart has a people greeter stationed at the entrance who watches the store, and will help with a battery powered, go-kart style shopping cart.

Good, next time I'm in one I'm going to ask for one since my feet will be tired after walking ALL the way across the parking lot because of the HC parking spots down in the front

[fatlazyless]

Definately, you'll want to check out the Wal-Mart sporting goods department, and get yourself a large punching bag and a lobotomy, and go at it big-time....you'll be a better person for it.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Definately, you'll want to check out the Wal-Mart sporting goods department, and get yourself a large punching bag and a lobotomy, and go at it big-time....you'll be a better person for it.

When they tried the lobotomy the last time, they could not get past the dense skull and abandoned the effort

[Cub Run]

I don't care who you are , that there is funny !

[rider]

According to the Wolfeboro town ordinaces:

No boats, as defined in RSA 270:2, shall be docked in that area of the Town Docks designed as accessible docking (handicap docking), unless such boat displays a windshield placard issued under RSA 261:88 or displays the international symbol of access. Docking spaces designed as accessible (handicap) shall be marked in accordance with the provisions of RSA 265:73-a by affixing signs to posts, docks or other areas so as to be clearly visible to anyone approaching the area by boat.
[Added 6-11-2008]
(1)

The accessible (handicap) docking area shall be utilized only if a person with a disability is being transported in or is operating a boat to or from the docking area.
(2)

The same time limit restrictions will apply to accessible (handicap) spaces as stated in Subsection L above.
(3)

Any person convicted under this subsection shall be fined not less than $250.

So the question is what is the "International Symbol of Access"? It consists of a blue square overlaid in white with a stylized image of a person using a wheelchair.

I found information about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...mbol_of_Access

All that it states in regards to a vehicle using it is "Marking a vehicle used by a disabled person, often for permission to use a space." Since it is a symbol and not assigned does that mean that anyone that claims to be disabled can print it out, put it on the dash, and be OK? They are after all displaying the proper symbol.

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

Originally Posted by rider

So the question is what is the "International Symbol of Access"? It consists of a blue square overlaid in white with a stylized image of a person using a wheelchair.

I would assume (but will not guarantee) that printing this symbol and placing it on your boat windshield would satisfy their requirement. I'd print it and include my bow numbers. Then I would laminate the paper so that water would not cause the ink to run.

Here is the symbol:

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Al,
Could not resist.

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

Al,
Could not resist.

That's very funny Paul. When I first saw your adjusted HP symbol I thought you added a wind-up key like on a kid's toy... as if you wind up the wheelchair to get it going.

In the middle of the night I awoke with the thought that you just might have drawn a propeller such as one might find powering a boat - which would make more sense because of the topic.

Either way, it kept me grinning - thanks RG. We all need to smile and laugh more . Don't resist those urges.

[LDR4]

This is the dumbest thing I have seen on the lake!
Wolfboro town leaders should grow a pair and stand up to the "politically correct" activists that forced this on them.
All they are doing is keeping more boats away from docking and spending money in the town.
Until they remove it, I am giving my dollars to Meredith!

I wrote to the town manager at wolftwnmgr@metrocast.net
Maybe if enough of us do that we can get it changed.

[MAXUM]

Why not, they put braille on a drive up ATM which I'm sure is required by law. Only isn't it illegal to drive if you're blind?

[Skip]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Why not, they put braille on a drive up ATM which I'm sure is required by law. Only isn't it illegal to drive if you're blind?

Actually they put braille on those machines because not only do people drive up to them, but in many locales they receive quite a bit of business from folks that walk up and use the machines.

Never occurred to me until one day in downtown Dover I actually waited while an individual who I know has severe vision issues used the machine (on foot) while I patiently awaited my turn to drive up.

I realized two things at that moment. I am extremely lucky to have my vision, and I now knew why braille was introduced to these machines!

[trfour]

Originally Posted by Skip

Actually they put braille on those machines because not only do people drive up to them, but in many locales they receive quite a bit of business from folks that walk up and use the machines.

Never occurred to me until one day in downtown Dover I actually waited while an individual who I know has severe vision issues used the machine (on foot) while I patiently awaited my turn to drive up.

I realized two things at that moment. I am extremely lucky to have my vision, and I now knew why braille was introduced to these machines!

" Actually they put braille on those machines because not only do people drive up to them, ".

Thanks Skip, and in this case you are being very kind! Most of us know that there are passenger seats, located just behind the driver, that bring folks so as they can access their bank accounts.

Amazing how some with 20/20 vision, just don't have a clue.



Very nice to have you back, Skip. Most of us missed you're absence and appreciate you're incites here.



Terry
___________________________________

[Gilligan]

Originally Posted by Skip

Actually they put braille on those machines because not only do people drive up to them, but in many locales they receive quite a bit of business from folks that walk up and use the machines. ...

Thanks Skip. It is nice to see you posting again. Your insight has been missed.

Many drive-thru ATMs have signs that prohibit walk up service. I think it is due to safety issues. I did not think about sight impaired back seat passengers like trfour mentioned. I would also guess it is easier to mass produce all the keypads with braille instead of manufacturing and stocking two different products. I think it is just plain cheaper to produce one keypad that includes the braille.

I should learn the braille system because some of the paint for letters and numbers has worn off of some of the keypads at well used ATMs but the braille bumps are still there.

The Wolfeboro handicap dock does not seem to have any accommodations for handicapped people. Not even shade from hot sun or cover from rain or a drinking water fountain. I do not see the benefit. Maybe they will put in a braille ATM on the dock .

[Winnipesaukee]

The accessible (handicap) docking area shall be utilized only if a person with a disability is being transported in or is operating a boat to or from the docking area.

What a poorly-written ordinance. So the handicap spot can only being used if a handicapped person is being picked up or dropped off? It doesn't sound like anybody, regardless of handicap status, can tie up and leave their boat there while they go into town.

I have a disability (heck a stutter is a "disability") and dock my boat there--display my placard--and walk around town. Now, since I am not being transported in, or operating my boat to or from that area, I am in violation.

Upper Massachusetts.

[Hammond]

Originally Posted by Skipper of the Sea Que

I digress though as this post is not to discuss the rational behind the law but to inform readers that the use of the MA and NH HP placard on your boat is illegal.

Would you please cite a reference or source for this information?

Thank you.

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

Originally Posted by Hammond

Would you please cite a reference or source for this information? Thank you.

Sure thing. I can imagine someone trying to tell a ticketing officer, "but Skipper of the Sea Que said it is illegal to use my state issued HP Placard..."

Below are screen snapshots of what I received from MA and NH on the subject. Right from the source. Note that in my inquiry I included the fact that a BOAT is considered a VEHICLE by definition.

[jrc]

You note the Webster consider's a boat a vehicle, but the State of NH clearly does not include boats in the term "motor vehicle". This just came up in the Blizzard case.

This really doesn't effect the fact that the Town of Wolfeboro can give you a $250 fine if you park your boat there. The fact that no one can park there without violating either their law or the rules for using a handicapped placard won't stop the local PD from writing the ticket. It's up to you to fight it.

[camp guy]

The answer to the HP boat parking in Wolfeboro is very, very simple: One Wolfeboro resident, because of a long standing grudge, found a way to force the Town into declaring certain spaces at the Town docks as HP accessible. This particular individual has cost the Town many thousands of dollars in ADA issues, and this boating issue was just another case of his bullying tactics.

You can say what you want with regard to boating accessible issues, and you can make any argument you want with respect to who boats, but the absolute plain facts in the Wolfeboro case have nothing to do with boating and everything to do with this single individual's grudge against the Town.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by camp guy

The answer to the HP boat parking in Wolfeboro is very, very simple: One Wolfeboro resident, because of a long standing grudge, found a way to force the Town into declaring certain spaces at the Town docks as HP accessible. This particular individual has cost the Town many thousands of dollars in ADA issues, and this boating issue was just another case of his bullying tactics.

You can say what you want with regard to boating accessible issues, and you can make any argument you want with respect to who boats, but the absolute plain facts in the Wolfeboro case have nothing to do with boating and everything to do with this single individual's grudge against the Town.

It would be interesting then to hear why the Town wen't overboard. Their present rules re: the HP boat slips is waaaay more than required by the ADA. And I'm not at all sure they even need, legally, the be compliant with the ADA. Only new or largly reconstructed docks need to be. Oh well it's Wolfeboro's loss because, as said above, I and a lot of people will speak with our wallets.

[RLW]

My suggestion to all that think it is illegal to use the placard at the Wolfeboro Docks is to just park there and follow the process to the end and see who the heck wins the battle.

[upthesaukee]

...So rather than waste my time (perhaps our time) in fighting this, I, like others who have posted, simply will not waste my time waiting more than a short time for a place to open up.

Just for the record, I never got a response from the town, and consider the matter closed on my part.

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

Just for the record, I never got a response from the town, and consider the matter closed on my part.

Thanks for trying to get some answers from the town.

As I understand it, you can make your own HP sign with the international symbol shown earlier in this thread and post it on your boat. I think that would satisfy the town (but no guarantee from me).

Hey, maybe I should offer to custom print them with your boat name and/or bow numbers and laminate them... I've made one for my boat. I have my bow numbers in white in the upper right corner of the blue symbol background. I might try to use it although there is really nothing on that HP dock that I can see that would facilitate my disability to help me dock, tie-up and get to shore.

Hmmm would it be worth my while to make and sell them? $79.95 postage included... Yeah, that's it - two for $150. Beats a $250 fine . Maybe I can get the rights to Rattlesnake Guy's boat version of the symbol and use that.... (slightly extra for his royalty). Even better. Paul (RG) could design a safety thread to embed in the placard to prevent counterfeits (sorry Paul, I couldn't resist).

brief note to Lawn Psycho: walking a long distance in a controlled environment like a Wal-Mart (not that I do that) or holding on to the treadmill in the gym is much different from walking a short distance in weather, dark, the heat, sun, humidity or on uneven ground with no close by place to sit and rest or to put down my oxygen tank. PM me if you'd like more of my insight into HP parking and walking disability. And yes, I have seen HP parking placard abuses.

[Kamper]

My take is that docking is not a recognised use of the HP placards. I don't see that it's prohibitted. Make a photocopy of your placard or license plate to show on the boat.

If you get ticketted show your, or your passenger's DL/ID that says "handicapped" on it.

[Gilligan]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

...
Just for the record, I never got a response from the town, and consider the matter closed on my part.

Are they all on vacation or do they want to ignore the situation?
Interesting that they did not respond to you.