Why would someone want a NWZ?

[VitaBene]

As a volunteer and director for the Moultonborough Snowmobile Club, I can assure you that Maxum and Chip are right on as far as noisy snow machines are concerned. Most of our trails cross private land owner's property, some within close proximity of their homes. In many cases, they are fellow snowmobilers, but in some cases they are not. As a club, each year we need to reach out to new landowners for permission to use their property. It is much easier to get this permission if we are all being good stewards of the trails that we use (by keeping noise down, staying on trail, not littering, using proper restroom facilities, etc).

We will never be a noiseless society, but we all have to co-exist as best as possible. Self-policing is much better than having a new law or RSA foisted upon us.

To the powerboaters with open exhaust, the snowmobiler with no mufflers and the Harley Davidson rider with straight pipes, think about your neighbors or the landowner whose property you are about to traverse. Ask yourself if the noise is excessive, and if so, please remedy the situation. Because if you don't there are plenty of people standing in the wings ready to take it to Concord.

[Shreddy]

I forgot how serious this board can be sometimes. I added the laughing face to emphasize the fact that I was stirring the pot. Please excuse me. Noise is an ever growing issue, but you can only complain about it so much. As I originally said, the best form of fighting loud vehicles and toys is to self police and talk to friends. If you feel strongly otherwise, get involved.

For the record, I got that snowmobile ticket three years ago. No, I don't ride with an aftermarket exhaust anymore on sleds. The issue in that area is exactly how everyone has stated thus far. My bike and jet ski does have aftermarket exhausts, however, you'd never know with the jet ski and both are setup for performance. Like I said, aftermarket exhausts can be controlled to an acceptable point (not redlining all the time). For the record, I don't own a harley, and I don't feel my exhaust is near the sound level of some of those!

Going back to the word of mouth policing, I would assume the majority of people that read these boards understand the nature of the issues surrounding noise. However, what everyone needs to realize is that probably less that 5% of active participants in these sports read these forums. Of that, I'd assume less that 1% is in the population that are worthy of complaining about. I'm talking all forums regarding these issues, not just winnipesaukee.com (snowmobiling, jet sking, etc.). Cheers to a never ending discussion about noise!

[VtSteve]

there's always an opening in the peanut gallery

Sometimes I like the loud boats, mostly not. Definitely depends on the distance and time of day. But most of the time it's not worth sweating. Now if I had to live near/on a NWZ, that would be different. A steady stream of boats coming off/on plane, with the requisite noise and wakes? That would not make me happy.

SOTD, I'm almost in agreement with some of your anti-noise comments. It sucks to be having a conversation, and not being able to hear anything until a boat goes by. Oh well, I do live on the lakefront. At night? Yes it's even louder as nothing is there to run noise interference. But not unbearable, nor does it last long enough to be of much concern.

SOTD, take the suggestion to join/meet with the SBONH people. You'd probably be a welcome addition to the group, and many of your thoughts are shared. Good things come with communication and cooperation. I can definitely agree with some of the warnings you post about activities of the few limiting the many. I suggested (warned) people of that awhile back.

Meet up with Scott and the others some day, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. You may also find that you have some new friends that not only share some of your concerns, but can help out as well. It's been a pretty good summer thus far, and making friends only adds to the enjoyment.

[Bear Islander]

If you hate noise a NWZ will not help. A NWZ keeps the offender around longer and they are loudest when speeding up. However noise rarely bothers me and I am in a noisy location. If I wanted quiet I would not have bought on a busy point.

Maxum is absolutely correct. A few idiots always screw things up for the majority. When the average person decides enough is enough then things start getting shut down.

I think this extreme need to be noisy is part of Small Man Syndrome. Guys who think they do not get enough respect or recognition in life, and are looking for payback with this kind of exhibitionism.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

there's always an opening in the peanut gallery

Sometimes I like the loud boats, mostly not. Definitely depends on the distance and time of day. But most of the time it's not worth sweating. Now if I had to live near/on a NWZ, that would be different. A steady stream of boats coming off/on plane, with the requisite noise and wakes? That would not make me happy.

SOTD, I'm almost in agreement with some of your anti-noise comments. It sucks to be having a conversation, and not being able to hear anything until a boat goes by. Oh well, I do live on the lakefront. At night? Yes it's even louder as nothing is there to run noise interference. But not unbearable, nor does it last long enough to be of much concern.

SOTD, take the suggestion to join/meet with the SBONH people. You'd probably be a welcome addition to the group, and many of your thoughts are shared. Good things come with communication and cooperation. I can definitely agree with some of the warnings you post about activities of the few limiting the many. I suggested (warned) people of that awhile back.

Meet up with Scott and the others some day, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. You may also find that you have some new friends that not only share some of your concerns, but can help out as well. It's been a pretty good summer thus far, and making friends only adds to the enjoyment.

Should I bring my dog for protection. Her name is Winnie and she's a brown Fabrador retriever. She's a pretty good guard dog but is afraid of loud noises.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

Should I bring my dog for protection. Her name is Winnie and she's a brown Fabrador retriever. She's a pretty good guard dog but is afraid of loud noises.

fabrodor retriver?? I thought my sister's Labradoodle was something!

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

As a volunteer and director for the Moultonborough Snowmobile Club, I can assure you that Maxum and Chip are right on as far as noisy snow machines are concerned. Most of our trails cross private land owner's property, some within close proximity of their homes. In many cases, they are fellow snowmobilers, but in some cases they are not. As a club, each year we need to reach out to new landowners for permission to use their property. It is much easier to get this permission if we are all being good stewards of the trails that we use (by keeping noise down, staying on trail, not littering, using proper restroom facilities, etc).

We will never be a noiseless society, but we all have to co-exist as best as possible. Self-policing is much better than having a new law or RSA foisted upon us.

I'd like to personally thank you for both volunteering and being a director of the MSC, many who enjoy riding have no idea the kind of effort and dedication it takes by a few for the benefit of many usually with little or no compensation. Especially when it comes to dealing/negotiating with land owners to provide the extensive trail system throughout the state.

You are absolutely right, we will never be a noiseless society, but a little self restraint and courtesy can go a long way to maintaining the often times delicate coexistence between those that have a passion for motor sports of any kind, and those who do not. Like I said in my last posting perception is everything.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

I'd like to personally thank you for both volunteering and being a director of the MSC, many who enjoy riding have no idea the kind of effort and dedication it takes by a few for the benefit of many usually with little or no compensation. Especially when it comes to dealing/negotiating with land owners to provide the extensive trail system throughout the state.

You are absolutely right, we will never be a noiseless society, but a little self restraint and courtesy can go a long way to maintaining the often times delicate coexistence between those that have a passion for motor sports of any kind, and those who do not. Like I said in my last posting perception is everything.

Thanks Maxum, it can be a lot of work but it is usually worth it! Once September rolls around I will be hitting people up for trail days here and there.

[Lucky1]

I got to wondering why I would want a No Wake Zone.

For one thing we would like to be able to take our kayaks out and not have to hug the shore because all of the motor boats are racing by in huge numbers and making it impossible to go across a small strip of lake to see the eagle's nest on a nearby island.

I know that weekends are the busiest times but isn't that when most of us have guests? There is a 150 foot right of way that is supposed to be in effect for rowboats, canoes etc so why do so many members here say how dangerous it is to be out in many areas in a kayak etc? Power boating is legal but so is kayaking! We own a lake home and pay our taxes. Why do so many power boaters not think that others want to enjoy being on the water?

One almost reads here that many think canoes, sailboats, kayakers and swimmers are to just stay out of the way of power boats? When did all of this happen as that is not the law. Power boaters are to give non power boaters 150 feet of right of way. I just don't want anyone to lose his or her life and have the power boater end up in jail. What will that accomplish? We do all need to be thoughtful of ALL others on the lake who are enjoying this wonderful gift that we all have.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

For one thing we would like to be able to take our kayaks out and not have to hug the shore because all of the motor boats are racing by in huge numbers and making it impossible to go across a small strip of lake to see the eagle's nest on a nearby island.

Lucky1,

Where on the lake are you... I am both a power boater and a Kayaker.... I have had great experience on both and never once have felt like I was concerned in my kayak. I would like the opportunity to see where you are trying to paddle and feel that the motor boat action cause to much commotion on a weekend.

I believe most kayakers end up feeling uncomfortable because they don't have a perception of whether they are identifiable in the water or not. I think most paddlers would be surprised at just how much they stick out, and how noticeable they are....

Send me a PM if you would like to talk about this more ....

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

I got to wondering why I would want a No Wake Zone.

For one thing we would like to be able to take our kayaks out and not have to hug the shore because all of the motor boats are racing by in huge numbers and making it impossible to go across a small strip of lake to see the eagle's nest on a nearby island.

I know that weekends are the busiest times but isn't that when most of us have guests? There is a 150 foot right of way that is supposed to be in effect for rowboats, canoes etc so why do so many members here say how dangerous it is to be out in many areas in a kayak etc? Power boating is legal but so is kayaking! We own a lake home and pay our taxes. Why do so many power boaters not think that others want to enjoy being on the water?

One almost reads here that many think canoes, sailboats, kayakers and swimmers are to just stay out of the way of power boats? When did all of this happen as that is not the law. Power boaters are to give non power boaters 150 feet of right of way. I just don't want anyone to lose his or her life and have the power boater end up in jail. What will that accomplish? We do all need to be thoughtful of ALL others on the lake who are enjoying this wonderful gift that we all have.

Lucky, In all of the cases you note the powerboat is required to slow to headway within 150' of you. It is really not a right of way, if they are at headway speed they can be 1' from you. 150' is not a lot of room for the canoe or kayak when dealing with wake, you are still going to get some. I canoe and my kids sail, there are days when we can't do it all over the lake as we would be putting ourselves at risk.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Lucky, In all of the cases you note the powerboat is required to slow to headway within 150' of you. It is really not a right of way, if they are at headway speed they can be 1' from you. 150' is not a lot of room for the canoe or kayak when dealing with wake, you are still going to get some. I canoe and my kids sail, there are days when we can't do it all over the lake as we would be putting ourselves at risk.

Agreed and good point here... I also paddleboat, kayak etc. On busy days I stay out of the boating lanes. Someone asked earlier what a boating lane is. Basically in the Broads there aren't boating lanes but when you get into the Narrows up in Moultonboro and the islands like Mark and Timber and such there are only certain areas or lanes that powerboat traffic can go. I would never in my right mind travel in the middle of these on a kayak during busy weekends. Although I have every right to be there as many stated before many Capt. boneheads don't realize this. It would be putting yourself at risk no matter what law they passed. Even if the whole lake was a NWZ it doesn't mean someone who is not familar with the laws can cause an issue. (before the legal experts jump all over me, Yes ignorance to the laws is no excuse and why education is needed but I am not going to risk going out there assuming everyone knows what I know)

So during the busy weekends, when I go out on a paddle boat or kayak I avoid these areas. I also think by me going out into a channel and making everyone slow down for me is not what a courteous boater should do whether under power or not.

Anyway I personally wouldn't want to go there in the first place, the fun of being in a non-power boat is being able to get into coves and inlets that you can't see in a powerboat.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

So during the busy weekends, when I go out on a paddle boat or kayak I avoid these areas. I also think by me going out into a channel and making everyone slow down for me is not what a courteous boater should do whether under power or not.

Anyway I personally wouldn't want to go there in the first place, the fun of being in a non-power boat is being able to get into coves and inlets that you can't see in a powerboat.

I totally agree and do the same.

[Lucky1]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Agreed and good point here... I also paddleboat, kayak etc. On busy days I stay out of the boating lanes. Someone asked earlier what a boating lane is. Basically in the Broads there aren't boating lanes but when you get into the Narrows up in Moultonboro and the islands like Mark and Timber and such there are only certain areas or lanes that powerboat traffic can go. I would never in my right mind travel in the middle of these on a kayak during busy weekends. Although I have every right to be there as many stated before many Capt. boneheads don't realize this. It would be putting yourself at risk no matter what law they passed. Even if the whole lake was a NWZ it doesn't mean someone who is not familar with the laws can cause an issue. (before the legal experts jump all over me, Yes ignorance to the laws is no excuse and why education is needed but I am not going to risk going out there assuming everyone knows what I know)

So during the busy weekends, when I go out on a paddle boat or kayak I avoid these areas. I also think by me going out into a channel and making everyone slow down for me is not what a courteous boater should do whether under power or not.

Anyway I personally wouldn't want to go there in the first place, the fun of being in a non-power boat is being able to get into coves and inlets that you can't see in a powerboat.

Good to hear that the fun of being in a non-power boat for you is being able to get into coves and inlets that you can't see in a powerboat.
Possibly you also understand that for others it might be going across to an island to see an eagle's nest? Somehow if anyone wants to do anything that in any way causes a power boat owner to have to change their instant desires it is not what a courteous boater should do, but all day long power boaters can cause non-power boaters to not be able to explore (except in coves and inlets) and that is courteous? This is a huge problem and thus the need for NWZ's.
Look at your symbol.......IT IS A POWER BOAT. That is where you are coming from.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

Good to hear that the fun of being in a non-power boat for you is being able to get into coves and inlets that you can't see in a powerboat.
Possibly you also understand that for others it might be going across to an island to see an eagle's nest? Somehow if anyone wants to do anything that in any way causes a power boat owner to have to change their instant desires it is not what a courteous boater should do, but all day long power boaters can cause non-power boaters to not be able to explore (except in coves and inlets) and that is courteous? This is a huge problem and thus the need for NWZ's.
Look at your symbol.......IT IS A POWER BOAT. That is where you are coming from.

Thanks for using the broad brush. Where on the lake are power boaters prohibiting you from kayaking all day long ? And there's never a chance to kayak between the never-ending stream of apparently non-yeilding power boaters ? I can understand some apprehension because Capt B does ride the high seas but really ...

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

Good to hear that the fun of being in a non-power boat for you is being able to get into coves and inlets that you can't see in a powerboat.
Possibly you also understand that for others it might be going across to an island to see an eagle's nest? Somehow if anyone wants to do anything that in any way causes a power boat owner to have to change their instant desires it is not what a courteous boater should do, but all day long power boaters can cause non-power boaters to not be able to explore (except in coves and inlets) and that is courteous? This is a huge problem and thus the need for NWZ's.
Look at your symbol.......IT IS A POWER BOAT. That is where you are coming from.

Really? Its a powerboat.. I never would have known.. Thanks for pointing it out. I will stop trying to push it with my oar .... (being sarcastic here)

Lucky, you are reading too much into it. 2 items.
1. I am discussing busy weekends. No matter how well your intentions there are many capt. boneheads who may not be as attentive as you. I personally stay out of busy areas. (this goes for capt bonehead kayakers as well) I once saw on 4th of July weekend in the middle of the broads a kayaker in a BLUE kayak wearing a BLUE life jacket... Seriously???

2. It is not courteous of a kayaker to go right in the middle of a boating channel. You mention you are also a powerboater, but just in case you don't venture out all over the lake I will expound. Well these "channels" can and many times are distinguished by "channel markers". A great example is if you are heading from tuftonboro / moultonboro heading / from the hole in the wall or barbers pole, towards trexlers bridge (Long Island Bridge). On the left side are 6 channel markers where only powerboats can go. It is probably only 325 feet wide. However to the right of the channel is probably a minimum of 1000 feet of water that kayakers and non-power boats can go. There are no eagles nests or any plausable reason why a kayaker would have to or want to cut across this channel. On a busy weekend it would slow traffic (not just one boat inconvenienced) but it actually can cause a traffic jam that potentially is a safety issue because most do not expect it there.

So using my example I would ask why would a kayaker who is courteous to fellow lake goers feel the need to park out right in the middle of the channel? I can't figure it out either but 2 weeks ago there he was clueless to everyone around him or was it he was purposely doing it..?

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Really? Its a powerboat.. I never would have known.. Thanks for pointing it out. I will stop trying to push it with my oar .... (being sarcastic here)

Lucky, you are reading too much into it...

Let me make some analogies. When driving we generally want people to pass on the left. So the rule is keep right except to pass. So there are times when I come up on someone in the left hand lane on RT93 who's just driving there, not passing a soul. And I don't mean in heavy traffic. That person is being rude. I have no problem if that person is actually passing another car (or about to, or have just done it) no matter how slower than me he may be going. Use the passing lane reasonably and then get right. That's being courteous.

People sometimes have to stop on the road (now I'm not talking RT93). OK, sometimes that happens. But if you're stopping in the road to read a map when you could have pulled (even partly) off the road, so others could get by ... well that's rude.

Context is important.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

Good to hear that the fun of being in a non-power boat for you is being able to get into coves and inlets that you can't see in a powerboat.
Possibly you also understand that for others it might be going across to an island to see an eagle's nest? Somehow if anyone wants to do anything that in any way causes a power boat owner to have to change their instant desires it is not what a courteous boater should do, but all day long power boaters can cause non-power boaters to not be able to explore (except in coves and inlets) and that is courteous? This is a huge problem and thus the need for NWZ's.
Look at your symbol.......IT IS A POWER BOAT. That is where you are coming from.

Based on your desire to want to paddle to an island with an eagle's nest I am surmising that you are in Moultonborough Bay or the channel leading to it near Suissevale. You have every right to do so and every powerboat that comes within 150' of you is required to be at headway speed. You may explore wherever you choose, but realize you will receive wake from passing boats.

[Kracken]

For the most part, Power Boaters and Sailboat Operators in New Hampshire know the rules. They have all been required to pass a boating exam and to be very honest there is more “self policing” here than in any other state I have ever been to. With that being said there are plenty of power boaters that don’t have the certificate, don’t have a clue what the rules are or simply don’t care. Don’t think for a moment that power boaters are indifferent to these people because they are “one of us”.

As for rights…of course everybody has a right to use the lake (legally), but having a vessel, any vessel does not give the owner an all access pass to the lake. Common sense has to kick in at some point.

We need to share the lake, and we need to do it responsibly. When you’re out on the lake, ask yourself these two questions.

Am I endangering myself and others?

Are my actions interfering with other people’s enjoyment?

If the answer is yes to either of these questions, you are doing it wrong.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

"... I also paddleboat, kayak etc. On busy days I stay out of the boating lanes. Someone asked earlier what a boating lane is..."

Paddleboat?

Sure, they're around, but is this what you meant by the "boat" you'd stay out of the "boating lanes" with?



Does it have blue and white "OCD" graphics?

[Sman]

I agree with BI regarding his point on a NWZ keeps noise around longer and when the boat takes off it is at its noisiest, I am near one too.

The only way that I can see a NWZ reducing noise is to discourage people from going through a particular area because they don't want to slow down to get where they are going. To me that only works if there is an alternative way to get where they are going. So if a NWZ discourages traffic then maybe it would address the issue at that location and create a problem at another.

If you are anti-noise and do get the NWZ put in, instead of complaining about boat noise you might be complaining about no one slowing down like they are supposed to in the NWZ, because lots don't. And you might have the noise of the inevitable guy a few docks down that takes it upon himself to yell "Hey no wake", if you are real lucky he will blow an airhorn and yell, everytime someone breaks the rule, thats fun. Different noises but not real pleasant either. You trade one noise for another or maybe now you have both or all three!