Boat Sinks at Witches 8/1

[Resident 2B]

Originally Posted by RI Swamp Yankee

I saw an AP story that said the boat name was Lady-Go-Diver. !!!

You cannot believe everything you read in the press!

R2B

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by Resident 2B

You cannot believe everything you read in the press!

R2B

Ain't that the truth. AP couldn't even check for the correct spelling.

[Joe Kerr]

It is fortunate that no one was hurt on the boat that smashed into The Witches this time. The Witches are dangerous and every year boats hit the rocks there. Those accidents use valuable resources to rescue and recover people and boats. Something must be done to save us from this hazard.

Experienced boaters as well as new and visiting boaters have trouble at The Witches so it is up to our government to do something to protect us. I urge you to petition your legislators to pass a law making it illegal to boat near The Witches. Charts, education and experience don't help prevent these accidents.

Ask any NH resident whether government should allow the public to continue to use their boats near these dangerous mostly hidden rocks and the vast majority will be in favor of protective restrictions. Make The Witches OFF LIMITS to power and sail boats. Don't wait for more injuries and destruction it's time to protect us now.

At night I can see boats in that area. It worries me and it scares me. Some might have young kids on board who are put in harms way by being near that dangerous area of the Lake. We must do something now to protect everyone.

Make The Witches a prohibited boating area.

[Little Bear]

We also need to pass immediate legislation to outlaw all US Navy Ships on Winnipesaukee. The horror of it all - how could you possibly expect Cap'n Bonehead in his 21' boat to avoid a 9200 ton, 509 ft ship with a 66 ft beam? Stop this now before it's too late!!


http://www.maritime-executive.com/ar...rn-california/

In all seriousness though - isn't it amazing a 21' boat can get this close to a US Navy Destroyer without being stopped? Don't they remember the USS Cole incident?

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Little Bear

We also need to pass immediate legislation to outlaw all US Navy Ships on Winnipesaukee. The horror of it all - how could you possibly expect Cap'n Bonehead in his 21' boat to avoid a 9200 ton, 509 ft ship with a 66 ft beam? Stop this now before it's too late!!


http://www.maritime-executive.com/ar...rn-california/

In all seriousness though - isn't it amazing a 21' boat can get this close to a US Navy Destroyer without being stopped? Don't they remember the USS Cole incident?

I used to be stationed out there in my Navy days and I was astonished at how many would actually attempt to play chicken with the aircraft carrier I was on - right smack in the middle of a tightly marked channel. Several times there were close 'enough' calls and amazingly enough neither the port authorty nor the US Navy seemed to be overly concerned.

I do agree that area around the witches could be marked better, especially the black markers where the only thing you can see is the black because they are sunk to deep to see the white bottom. They are extremely hard to pick up. I can't believe those things are terribly expensive to replace, they are nothing but foam filled PVC pipe. Who ever came up with the idea that making markers black had a few screws loose IMHO.

[Senter Cove Guy]

Originally Posted by Joe Kerr

I urge you to petition your legislators to pass a law making it illegal to boat near The Witches. ... Make The Witches a prohibited boating area.

This is a way-over-the-top response. An additional buoy or 2, strategically placed, could have prevented this mishap.

[jrc]

If anyone was hurt, we would be discussing "failure to keep a proper lookout"

[jrc]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

I think that still applies in this case JRC.

yes, but it's not like anyone is going to jail. The business, the operator, the insurance company and the passengers will have to work out any civil issues, most likely in private.

[LIforrelaxin]

So now we look at the witches the wonderful navigation hazard that it is. Everyone always wonders why it is not more visible... of course the same argument can be made about middle ground shoal as well. Folks this is why we have charts. This is why the Chart makers make the charts, so that we can use them to navigate when we are in unfamiliar territory.

As VtSteve pointed out the Capt. of the Dive boat already admitted he screwed up... Would more Markers of helped him... I doubt it.... He made an error he is human...

Now short of putting markers every five feet around the area I don't understand what people want done... Wait hold on... lets pull on out of the old bag... The only thing I could see to make the Witches more visible is to make the markers bigger, that is an idea I would go for, and also add a bell to them... Much like the markers used on coastal waters....

Now bringing the idea of bigger markers to the Marine Patrol is an idea that might work... More Markers means more work... not that bigger markers don't but it doesn't mean additional markers to keep and eye on....

But even with bigger markers... the human flaw will happen again... accidents happen, we just need to accept it and move on....

I am glad that in this accident no one was hurt the boat was recovered quickly, and life will go on.

[Kracken]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

I propose something that would be a job creator and good for the entire lake.

Blast them rocks and be done with it. ALL of them

Good Idea or...

There must be some of that stimulus money still available. How about we gather all the rocks up and put them in a big pile and form a new island. Then the state could sell lots on the newly formed rock island creating increased revenue for the state in the form of property tax.

It’s a win-win-win situation. It would creat jobs, it would increase tax revenues and it would get rid of a navigational hazard because nobody would crash into…..

Ok it’s a win-win situation.

[NoBozo]

I have a novel idea. There are NINE marks around the Witches. I suggest removing Seven of them altogether....keeping One Lighted mark at each end with a RED Slow Flashing light on top. (Not a Strobe).

Keeping things SIMPLE always seems to me to make more sense than making things complicated. Anything complicated usually results in unecessary confusion..especially when out there on the water trying to figure out WHICH of the current NINE marks you are closest to, and what to do about it.. Just a thought. NB

[webmaster]

I still say we should have put up that lighthouse .

http://www.winnipesaukeeforum.com/ar...cgi?read=22396

[tis]

Originally Posted by webmaster

I still say we should have put up that lighthouse .

http://www.winnipesaukeeforum.com/ar...cgi?read=22396

[Tank151]

Originally Posted by webmaster

I still say we should have put up that lighthouse .

http://www.winnipesaukeeforum.com/ar...cgi?read=22396

That's an awesome idea....

Tank
Laconia

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

Need more of those Don, and bigger, Much bigger

I had an idea for a large island deck there, complete with Tiki hut sports bars, rubber bumpers all around. It's sure to make boaters slow down and notice. The lighthouse(s) would be an excellent draw as well.

Yup, we could make it a Designated Rafting Zone. Talk about killing 3 birds with 1 stone !!

Now what can we do with Bizer Rock ?

[ITD]

I like where this is going, we could have a Lobster Roll off, we're the place that gets the most votes for their lobster roll gets the right to sell them at "The Witches".

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Joe Kerr

It is fortunate that no one was hurt on the boat that smashed into The Witches this time. The Witches are dangerous and every year boats hit the rocks there. Those accidents use valuable resources to rescue and recover people and boats. Something must be done to save us from this hazard.

Experienced boaters as well as new and visiting boaters have trouble at The Witches so it is up to our government to do something to protect us. I urge you to petition your legislators to pass a law making it illegal to boat near The Witches. Charts, education and experience don't help prevent these accidents.

Ask any NH resident whether government should allow the public to continue to use their boats near these dangerous mostly hidden rocks and the vast majority will be in favor of protective restrictions. Make The Witches OFF LIMITS to power and sail boats. Don't wait for more injuries and destruction it's time to protect us now.

At night I can see boats in that area. It worries me and it scares me. Some might have young kids on board who are put in harms way by being near that dangerous area of the Lake. We must do something now to protect everyone.

Make The Witches a prohibited boating area.

Sorry Joe, while certainly heading in the right direction, your proposal just isn't useless enough and has a little too much supporting data to be enacted into law in NH (Ref. the SL law to see where you have erred). Keep trying though, I think adding a line about aliens may help.

[Kracken]

Originally Posted by Joe Kerr

It is fortunate that no one was hurt on the boat that smashed into The Witches this time. The Witches are dangerous and every year boats hit the rocks there. Those accidents use valuable resources to rescue and recover people and boats. Something must be done to save us from this hazard.

Experienced boaters as well as new and visiting boaters have trouble at The Witches so it is up to our government to do something to protect us. I urge you to petition your legislators to pass a law making it illegal to boat near The Witches. Charts, education and experience don't help prevent these accidents.

Ask any NH resident whether government should allow the public to continue to use their boats near these dangerous mostly hidden rocks and the vast majority will be in favor of protective restrictions. Make The Witches OFF LIMITS to power and sail boats. Don't wait for more injuries and destruction it's time to protect us now.

At night I can see boats in that area. It worries me and it scares me. Some might have young kids on board who are put in harms way by being near that dangerous area of the Lake. We must do something now to protect everyone.

Make The Witches a prohibited boating area.

Do we really need a law to tell people not to drive into the rocks? I would think a couple more decent markers would be enough.

[ishoot308]

ahh guy's... I think old Joe was joking and maybe just inferring a little sarcastic humor?? Maybe??

Dan

[Joe Kerr]

Originally Posted by ITD

Sorry Joe, while certainly heading in the right direction, your proposal just isn't useless enough and has a little too much supporting data to be enacted into law in NH (Ref. the SL law to see where you have erred). Keep trying though, I think adding a line about aliens may help.

I'll have get more politicians on my side then ITD (you are very wize). In part I'm thinking about how to come up with a WINNing FABulouS idea that prevents cavalier boating activity around the Witches by everyone including illegal aliens. Maybe the Marine Patrol can adopt Arizona style laws about aliens as a guide. Do we know how many Capt. Boneheads are undocumented citizens?

Originally Posted by ishoot308

ahh guy's... I think old Joe was joking and maybe just inferring a little sarcastic humor?? Maybe?? Dan

Dan, ya think?

BTW, no matter how you spell it I am not joking or Joe King. I am Joe Kerr!

[Capt. Quint]

A local boat from the Weirs docks slammed two torpedoes into our side, chief. We was comin' back, from the island of Timber, just delivered the bomb. A steak bomb from Crazy Gringo's. Eleven hundred men went into the water. Vessel went down in twelve minutes. Didn't see the first bass for about a half an hour.

Rock Bass... nine incher. You know how you know that when you're in the water, chief? You tell by lookin' from the dorsal to the tail.

Well, we didn't know. `Cause our steak bomb mission had been so secret, no distress signal had been sent. Huh huh.

They didn't even list us overdue for a week. Very first light, chief. The
rock bass come cruisin'. So we formed ourselves into tight groups. You know
it's... kinda like `ol squares in battle like a, you see on a calendar, like
the battle of Waterloo. And the idea was, the bass come near a man and then he'd start poundin' and hollerin' and screamin' and sometimes the bass would go away. Sometimes he wouldn't go away. Sometimes that bass, he looks right into you. Right into your eyes. You know the thing about a rock bass, he's got...lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll's eye. When he comes at ya, doesn't seem to be livin'. Until he bites ya and those black eyes roll over white.

And then, ah then you hear that terrible high pitch screamin' and the lake
turns red and spite of all the poundin' and the hollerin' they all come in
and rip you to pieces. Y'know by the end of that first dawn, lost a hundred
men! I don't know how many rock bass, maybe a thousand! I don't know how many men, they averaged six an hour. On Monday mornin' chief, I bumped into a friend of mine, Herbie Robinson from Cleveland. Baseball player, boson's
mate. I thought he was asleep, reached over to wake him up. Bobbed up and
down in the water, just like a kinda top. Up ended. Well... he'd been bitten
in half below the waist. Noon the fifth day, Mr. Hooper, a Lockheed Ventura
saw us, he swung in low and he saw us. He'd a young pilot, a lot younger than Mr. Hooper, anyway he saw us and come in low. And three hours later a big fat PBY comes down and start to pick us up.

You know that was the time I was most frightened? Waitin' for my turn. I'll never put on a lifejacket again.

So, eleven hundred men went in the lake, three hundred and sixteen men come out, the rock bass took the rest, August the 1, 2010. Anyway, we delivered the bomb.

[NoBozo]

I have no idea what that was about. Maybe it's the story the story of the USS Indianapolis at the end of WWII. If memoery serves me there were THREE survivors of a Shark Fest after the ship had been torpedoed..... the war had ended...and the ship was homeward bound. There was a Jap sub that didn't get the word.

The Captain of the Indianopolis did not follow the rules of wartime engagement and elected to steam in a straight line toward home instead of following a "Sinuous Compass Course". (ZIG ZAG).. I believe he was later court marshalled....the remaining crew stuck up for him. It didn't matter.

Sorry for the history lesson out of hand. NB

[jrc]

Think NB,


.....famous movie....



....in the water....




.....look at the posters name....

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

I have no idea what that was about. Maybe it's the story the story of the USS Indianapolis at the end of WWII. If memoery serves me there were THREE survivors of a Shark Fest after the ship had been torpedoed..... the war had ended...and the ship was homeward bound. There was a Jap sub that didn't get the word.

The Captain of the Indianopolis did not follow the rules of wartime engagement and elected to steam in a straight line toward home instead of following a "Sinuous Compass Course". (ZIG ZAG).. I believe he was later court marshalled....the remaining crew stuck up for him. It didn't matter.

Sorry for the history lesson out of hand. NB

I believe around 300 survived. USS Indianopolis was on a return trip from dropping off the better part of "Little Boy", one of the nuclear bombs that ended WW2.

[Tallyho]

I find no humor in Cpt. Quints posting, " I'll never put on a life jacket again". As a veteran, I consider it an insult to the crew of the cruiser USS Indianapolis. The dialogue was obviously taken from the movie Jaws, but the event actually happened. See below:


The Worst Naval Disaster in US History

At 12:14 a.m. on July 30, 1945, the USS Indianapolis was torpedoed by a Japanese submarine in the Philippine Sea and sank in 12 minutes. Of 1,196 men on board, approximately 300 went down with the ship. The remainder, about 900 men, were left floating in shark-infested waters with no lifeboats and most with no food or water. The ship was never missed, and by the time the survivors were spotted by accident four days later only 316 men were still alive.

The ship's captain, the late Charles Butler McVay III, survived and was court-martialed and convicted of "hazarding his ship by failing to zigzag" despite overwhelming evidence that the Navy itself had placed the ship in harm's way, despite testimony from the Japanese submarine commander that zigzagging would have made no difference, and despite that fact that, although over 350 navy ships were lost in combat in WWII, McVay was the only captain to be court-martialed. Materials declassified years later add to the evidence that McVay was a scapegoat for the mistakes of others.

[Resident 2B]

Originally Posted by Tallyho

I find no humor in Cpt. Quints posting, " I'll never put on a life jacket again". As a veteran, I consider it an insult to the crew of the cruiser USS Indianapolis. The dialogue was obviously taken from the movie Jaws, but the event actually happened. See below:


The Worst Naval Disaster in US History

At 12:14 a.m. on July 30, 1945, the USS Indianapolis was torpedoed by a Japanese submarine in the Philippine Sea and sank in 12 minutes. Of 1,196 men on board, approximately 300 went down with the ship. The remainder, about 900 men, were left floating in shark-infested waters with no lifeboats and most with no food or water. The ship was never missed, and by the time the survivors were spotted by accident four days later only 316 men were still alive.

The ship's captain, the late Charles Butler McVay III, survived and was court-martialed and convicted of "hazarding his ship by failing to zigzag" despite overwhelming evidence that the Navy itself had placed the ship in harm's way, despite testimony from the Japanese submarine commander that zigzagging would have made no difference, and despite that fact that, although over 350 navy ships were lost in combat in WWII, McVay was the only captain to be court-martialed. Materials declassified years later add to the evidence that McVay was a scapegoat for the mistakes of others.

I have to totally agree.

As a veteran from Viet Nam, I see nothing funny in the post by Capt. Quint. Capt. Quint, please respect those that served and gave their lives and remove your grossly distasteful post.

Webmaster, please remove this post if Capt. Quint feels it should remain.

Thank you.

R2B

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by Tallyho

The ship's captain, the late Charles Butler McVay III, survived and was court-martialed and convicted of "hazarding his ship by failing to zigzag" despite overwhelming evidence that the Navy itself had placed the ship in harm's way, despite testimony from the Japanese submarine commander that zigzagging would have made no difference, and despite that fact that, although over 350 navy ships were lost in combat in WWII, McVay was the only captain to be court-martialed. Materials declassified years later add to the evidence that McVay was a scapegoat for the mistakes of others.

I thought I had seen or heard something on The History Channel discussing this (maybe it was the Military Channel) so I went looking for more info. I found the quote below at Wikipedia. Justice was eventually served, albeit too late to try to relieve any of the guilt suffered by Capt. McVay.

"Fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz remitted McVay's sentence and restored him to active duty. McVay retired in 1949. While many of Indianapolis's survivors said McVay was not to blame for the sinking, the families of some of the men who died did. The guilt that was placed on his shoulders mounted until he committed suicide in 1968, using his Navy-issue revolver. McVay was discovered with a toy sailor in one hand on his front lawn.

In October 2000, the United States Congress passed a resolution that Captain McVay's record should state that "he is exonerated for the loss of Indianapolis." President Bill Clinton signed the resolution. The resolution noted that although several hundred ships of the US Navy were lost in combat in World War II, McVay was the only captain to be court-martialed for the sinking of his ship."

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by Joe Kerr

..... I urge you to petition your legislators to pass a law making it illegal to boat near The Witches. ...... Make The Witches OFF LIMITS to power and sail boats. .....

.. or pass a law to raise the lake level by 6 feet. That would also help those that complain that it is too shallow near their docks and boathouses.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

I'm sure he has a chart, and is quite familiar with the lake. I doubt slowing down would have helped much. There was another boat that sunk last week, and they were only going 5 mph. Gosh, this is getting complicated

One way to examine that sinking is to determine the time and location of the cruiser, "Life is Good".

Originally Posted by jrc

Let's face it, the NH spar buoys are tough to see in the chop or at night. I think switching to something fatter would help.

1) Lake Winnipesaukee had something fatter—about 20 years ago...oversized boats started hitting them and breaking them off. On the other hand, cast-iron ATON buoys would provide the incentive to make Winnipesaukee's boat "drivers" into "helmsmen"—and instantly identify any problem boaters.

2) Everything is tough to see at night.

One proposal for night-time navigation around our markers would be solar-powered marker lights:



3) Look, markers are easy to see in the light of morning and afternoon. Boating at mid-day has the markers sunlit from above; however, the rocks they are marking are more easily seen at mid-day.

4) To improve the markers' apparent day-time invisibility, the NH Legislture should mandate that each marker get upgraded with this new item:




(The author of "The Streets of Laredo" gets an apology from me for my Title here...)

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by Joe Kerr

It is fortunate that no one was hurt on the boat that smashed into The Witches this time. The Witches are dangerous and every year boats hit the rocks there. Those accidents use valuable resources to rescue and recover people and boats.

Why is it the "governments responsibility to take care of us? What ever happened to responsibility for ones' actions?

No, experienced boaters as well as most of new and visiting boaters have absolutely no problem with navigating their way around the Witches. You can see the proof of this every weekend in the summer. It is up to the Captain of his craft to safely navigate around any hazards he might encounter

Again, it is not the responsibility if "the government". And yes Charts, education and experience can will and do prevent these accidents!

To reiterate, it is already is and has been for decades.