Fully Moderated Forums comes to Winnipesaukee.com

[Skip]

Yes....Don does indeed "own" this website.

Lock, stock and constitutionally protected barrell!

What do some of you not understand?

This site is the intellectual and constitututionally protected property of one person, and one person only....Don.

Any person that posts here, regardless of Don's carefully worded rules, does so at the whim, will and fancy of Don.

No one has a right or even a privilege to be here but Don.

The vast majority of the regular posters here understand that, and have voted with their feet when it come to some of these controversial and repetitive threads.

That a handful of you still don't understand Don's rights and his mission here would be laughable, if you didn't repeat your ignorance on the subject over and over and over and over!

Don has to be doing something right. He is approaching his second decade of existence here. I have seen a number of individuals attempt to copy Don's success, only to wither and fade within a matter of months.

I've had the privilege to be his guest for almost a decade now. I have gotten to understand the method of his madness during that time, and feel safe to say few love the Lakes region as much as Don, very few have sacrificed the time & money to promote it as Don does, and very few families have allowed their loved ones to spend so much time away from family to allow far away families the ability to visit the Lake electronically any time of the day or night.

Quite frankly I find some of the comments and allegations made against Don here, and in the other thread, dispicable.

This website is filled with so many helpful, interesting and just plain nice folk. But boy does it have a few jerks wedged in the crevices!

That some of you can't tell what column you fall in to is oh sooooo sad....

Once again, sorry Don....I won't post in these two foolish threads again.

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by Skip

Yes....Don does indeed "own" this website.

Lock, stock and constitutionally protected barrell!

What do some of you not understand?

This site is the intellectual and constitututionally protected property of one person, and one person only....Don.

Any person that posts here, regardless of Don's carefully worded rules, does so at the whim, will and fancy of Don.

No one has a right or even a privilege to be here but Don.

The vast majority of the regular posters here understand that, and have voted with their feet when it come to some of these controversial and repetitive threads.

That a handful of you still don't understand Don's rights and his mission here would be laughable, if you didn't repeat your ignorance on the subject over and over and over and over!

Don has to be doing something right. He is approaching his second decade of existence here. I have seen a number of individuals attempt to copy Don's success, only to wither and fade within a matter of months.

I've had the privilege to be his guest for almost a decade now. I have gotten to understand the method of his madness during that time, and feel safe to say few love the Lakes region as much as Don, very few have sacrificed the time & money to promote it as Don does, and very few families have allowed their loved ones to spend so much time away from family to allow far away families the ability to visit the Lake electronically any time of the day or night.

Quite frankly I find some of the comments and allegations made against Don here, and in the other thread, dispicable.

This website is filled with so many helpful, interesting and just plain nice folk. But boy does it have a few jerks wedged in the crevices!

That some of you can't tell what column you fall in to is oh sooooo sad....

Once again, sorry Don....I won't post in these two foolish threads again.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by Skip

Yes....Don does indeed "own" this website.

Lock, stock and constitutionally protected barrell!

What do some of you not understand?

This site is the intellectual and constitututionally protected property of one person, and one person only....Don.

Any person that posts here, regardless of Don's carefully worded rules, does so at the whim, will and fancy of Don.

No one has a right or even a privilege to be here but Don.

The vast majority of the regular posters here understand that, and have voted with their feet when it come to some of these controversial and repetitive threads.

That a handful of you still don't understand Don's rights and his mission here would be laughable, if you didn't repeat your ignorance on the subject over and over and over and over!

Don has to be doing something right. He is approaching his second decade of existence here. I have seen a number of individuals attempt to copy Don's success, only to wither and fade within a matter of months.

I've had the privilege to be his guest for almost a decade now. I have gotten to understand the method of his madness during that time, and feel safe to say few love the Lakes region as much as Don, very few have sacrificed the time & money to promote it as Don does, and very few families have allowed their loved ones to spend so much time away from family to allow far away families the ability to visit the Lake electronically any time of the day or night.

Quite frankly I find some of the comments and allegations made against Don here, and in the other thread, dispicable.

This website is filled with so many helpful, interesting and just plain nice folk. But boy does it have a few jerks wedged in the crevices!

That some of you can't tell what column you fall in to is oh sooooo sad....

Once again, sorry Don....I won't post in these two foolish threads again.

Do we still not have the right to voice our opinion? Or is that frowned upon in this "renewed" Winnipesaukee forum? Call it a foolish thread now if you want. I guess if we're not talking about how great our boat ride was today and how pretty the white puffy clouds we saw today on that boat ride it's not applicable.
Yes, Don owns the site and can make any rules he wants. And to use the word "jerks" in my opinion is childish.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by gtagrip

Do we still not have the right to voice our opinion?

Technically, you never had that right in the first place. A forum is conceptually like private property.

You have the right to free speech in public areas and free publication. You do NOT have a right to free speech inside or on another entities' private property.

Walk in to Walmart and try to setup a soapbox and starting preaching away at some core value you believe in. You'll be escorted off the premises post-haste and will have no recourse.

People seem to have make-believe "rights" to all sorts of things, or not understand what their Constitutional rights do and do not apply to. I'm not claiming to be an expert either, but you might want to do a little more research and understanding before you go too far off in what you believe to be "right".

[trfour]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Technically, you never had that right in the first place. A forum is conceptually like private property.

You have the right to free speech in public areas and free publication. You do NOT have a right to free speech inside or on another entities' private property.

Walk in to Walmart and try to setup a soapbox and starting preaching away at some core value you believe in. You'll be escorted off the premises post-haste and will have no recourse.

People seem to have make-believe "rights" to all sorts of things, or not understand what their Constitutional rights do and do not apply to. I'm not claiming to be an expert either, but you might want to do a little more research and understanding before you go too far off in what you believe to be "right".

You hit the nail right on the head!!!!

Ever since this thread showed up out here, I've been reading along and just praying to God to keep my mouth shut!.... I had to borrow one O'those white thingies what tie behind your back to keep me away from my keyboard, so to speak... you know, the boys in the white coats will lend'um for free!

Quality is job one out here! WebMaster Don not only Rocks & Rolls in this, and may I add, [ " The Best Website On This Planet " ]!!!!

Being a veteran myself, I have found that it is much more important to protect freedom of speech, and yet respect a more private space, should it also be important!...



Terry
__________________________________________________ ___

[fpartri497]

Get over It, Quit whining, get on with your life . This thread is total nonsense

[XCR-700]

I couldn’t help but laugh when I took a moment to clear my head and revisit some of the posts and I find it most interesting to see how some here who seem to support the moderation concept are also the ones who keep using interesting terms to address/describe any position counter to theirs.

Terms such as:

• I won't post in these two foolish threads again.
• You just don’t get it!
• That some of you can't tell what column you fall in to is oh sooooo sad....
• Will this never end?
• I think it should disappear into the sunset and never return.
• I've been reading along and just praying to God to keep my mouth shut!
• Get over It, Quit whining, get on with your life . This thread is total nonsense
• But boy does it have a few jerks wedged in the crevices!
• those who don't like the rules can simply go elsewhere.
• ETC, Etc, etc,,,

And people are talking about “rights and ownership and protections” and I cant help but ask the question is this what got the boating site saddled with moderation,,,

I am the first to admit that I am often strongly opinionated and maybe even a bit hot-headed, but these posts clearly seem intolerant of opposing views and the posters appear to embody an omniscient attitude !

Worst of all is this reoccurring theme that voicing an opinion/preference about not liking the concept of forum moderation and censorship is somehow an attack on the owner of the Winnipesaukee.com site, which could not be farther from the truth.

Is this really the example you folks want to be using to promote a kinder and more user friendly forum?

Or maybe this is what you consider leading by example??

Or is this just the shut up and do what I say or suffer the consequences of our group wrath???

I think I will stick to my original comment “Very Disappointing,,,”

[Blue Thunder]

You've posted 11 times in this thread alone. I think you've made your point.......can we move on?

Blue Thunder

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Blue Thunder

You've posted 11 times in this thread alone. I think you've made your point.......can we move on?

Blue Thunder

My apologies, I didn’t know there was a specific standard convention for the number of posts to a single and fairly active thread (and relatively obscure and hidden in the bowls of the site one no less)

But you are100% correct not only am I the one who got folks all riled up for voicing an apparently controversial opinion, I am probably its most prolific poster on this matter even after saying I would not say any more about the issue. Sorry,,,

I will close out my activity on this matter by saying that I have in fact seen reasonable posts in favor of moderation! I still remain convinced that it is NOT something I favor for a variety of reasons, but some here have made their case and probably better than I have.

I remain disappointed that the members of the site are not joining together to request a reconsideration of this change, and promising to conduct themselves in an adult and civil manner and focus on meaningful discussion without personal attacks nor being so thin-skinned and closed minded that any opposition to their point makes the other guy a bad-guy and label the post/thread ridiculous-foolish-nonsense-etc as we have seen in this thread!

The problems that have been reported on the boating forum are far more clear to me after seeing how this thread evolved and as was my original thought, there is a LOT of hostile energy around differences of opinion, and at least on this thread, NO legitimate concerns for personal attacks and NOT a single nasty PM to me! (not that I am looking for any,,,)

Well that’s what I walk away from this thread with,,,

I sincerely want to thank to all who posted in a reasonable and meaningful way!!!

I look forward to our next exciting adventure,,,

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Technically, you never had that right in the first place. A forum is conceptually like private property.

Then what is the sense of having a forum if different opinions cannot be heard?

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by gtagrip

Then what is the sense of having a forum if different opinions cannot be heard?

Dude. Seriously. The opinions HAVE been heard. About 8000 times. That's how we ended up here.

No one is trying to limit your ability to voice your opinion.

As far as I can tell, the moderation is simply making sure any blatant flame bait and trolling posts don't get posted, and you can't make a rational argument that THOSE posts add anything to the community.

It's *moderation* not *censorship* (for the most part, the only things being censored would appear to be those posts against the charter of the site, which you agreed to when signing up).

[Winnigirl]

IMO, there's a difference between expressing your opinion and beating a dead horse.

[CrawfordCentury]

Originally Posted by Winnigirl

IMO, there's a difference between expressing your opinion and beating a dead horse.

Ha! Since we're using this thread as a means of airing our grievances, I would like to express my utter dismay at this site's smileys selection. For example, this one would come in mighty handy on occasion

[VtSteve]

when the dead horse being beaten is your own. I think the next few years will provide some humor for many.

I read XCR's last post and understood full well what he meant. There are many that were quite put back by some of the more uncivil threads. In threads like this one, they may be civil, but their shout downs and put downs are still pretty obvious to most people.

I live right on Lake Champlain, up front and center. I "had" a next door neighbor from Winni, and we discussed the lake. She thought it was "so pristine" here. I reminisced about the cleaner water at Winni. She said, in a very civil tone, that Champlain was better because most every boat she saw here was a beautiful sailboat. So pristine.

She doesn't boat at all, neither power nor sail. Many on this forum remind me of her. She stated her case, and was quite perturbed, though civil, that anyone would dispute her view. It would be easier for me to turn a NASCAR driver into a pedal biker than vis versus.

[Rose]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

It will be interesting when the dead horse being beaten is your own.

My concern with beating any dead horse is that it ends up being unhealthy for the one doing the beating. I've learned over the years (and most likely lost a job because of it) that trying to get someone to see your logic is ultimately a waste of time and, if played out too long, sanity.

This situation of the entire boating forum being moderated rather than just the problematic few being punished reminds me of when I was in junior high and a few people misbehaved in the cafeteria. It ultimately led to the entire cafeteria being sat boy-girl-boy-girl for the entire lunch period. EEEEEWWWWW!!!! COOTIES!!!!! But I never thought how unfair of the adults to do that, I thought how unfair that we had to do that because of a few people who couldn't behave.

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

There has always been forum moderation. What a few of you are reacting to is the TIMING of the moderation or redacting. Countless times in the past I've seen recently posted items and tell myself that's not going to last long and a short time later, POOF, it's gone. It violated the forum rules. There was moderation. What Don has done for the moment is changed the timing of his "editing" from post post to pre-post. In other words. Instead of reviewing the posts after they show up on the web, in the boating forum he is reviewing them BEFORE they appear in public.

So, there should be no clamor about moderation - it has ALWAYS been around this site. Webmaster Don has always reviewed each and every post. And, Don is very moderate in his moderation (I would have "blown up" or "locked up" many more posts/threads than he has - like this one for instance ) .

IHMO he is a very "liberal" moderator. It is very clear what is being "moderated" (it's in the forum rules). Your ideas and comments are welcome and do not have to agree with anyone. However, your style or personal attacks (different from ideas) may not belong on this forum. Example: Do you think that Don agrees with everything FatLazyLess posts? (no offense FLL )

Let's give this a rest and go moderately about our enjoyment of the lake and this web site.

And again, a big Thank You to Don and to all whose participation help make this a great site.

sliding off box of soap now...

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Skip

Yes....Don does indeed "own" this website.

Lock, stock and constitutionally protected barrell!

What do some of you not understand?

This site is the intellectual and constitututionally protected property of one person, and one person only....Don.

Any person that posts here, regardless of Don's carefully worded rules, does so at the whim, will and fancy of Don.

No one has a right or even a privilege to be here but Don.

The vast majority of the regular posters here understand that, and have voted with their feet when it come to some of these controversial and repetitive threads.

That a handful of you still don't understand Don's rights and his mission here would be laughable, if you didn't repeat your ignorance on the subject over and over and over and over!

Don has to be doing something right. He is approaching his second decade of existence here. I have seen a number of individuals attempt to copy Don's success, only to wither and fade within a matter of months.

I've had the privilege to be his guest for almost a decade now. I have gotten to understand the method of his madness during that time, and feel safe to say few love the Lakes region as much as Don, very few have sacrificed the time & money to promote it as Don does, and very few families have allowed their loved ones to spend so much time away from family to allow far away families the ability to visit the Lake electronically any time of the day or night.

Quite frankly I find some of the comments and allegations made against Don here, and in the other thread, dispicable.

This website is filled with so many helpful, interesting and just plain nice folk. But boy does it have a few jerks wedged in the crevices!

That some of you can't tell what column you fall in to is oh sooooo sad....

Once again, sorry Don....I won't post in these two foolish threads again.

Great post Skip. I completely agree that Don has total control and people have to respect his wishes concerning what topics and debate should and should not occur.

Per your suggestion and that of many others it was said to take the debate elsewhere. So in the spirit of getting the hot topics that continuosly come up off winni.com and hopefully allows for the boating forum to become un-moderated once again, sbonh set up a forum where these discussions can go on. I truely hope that it will be an alternative and a place Don can point to, to make sure those same conversations no longer occur here. If anyone is interested it is as www.sbonh.org/forums

[NoBozo]

I posted on the Boating Forum ..maybe 10:00 AM (Tues) this morning. I didn't write the time down. Why would I..? SAMIAM got posted at 9:25. SO: No new posts for EIGHT hours. That works for me. NB

[RI Swamp Yankee]

If I recall correctly, in the "good old days" every post by every member was moderated. Somehow the forum survived quite nicely and became what it is today. Thanks Don for doing what you had to do to make it what it is now.

[webmaster]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

I posted on the Boating Forum ..maybe 10:00 AM (Tues) this morning. I didn't write the time down. Why would I..? SAMIAM got posted at 9:25. SO: No new posts for EIGHT hours. That works for me. NB

I usually check in to approve posts frequently but I happen to be on vacation this week. We had company today and were out in the boat most of the day and then went straight to dinner. Sorry, I'll try to do better tomorrow.

[VitaBene]

Enjoy your vacation Don. We will survive!

[Skip]

Originally Posted by webmaster

I usually check in to approve posts frequently but I happen to be on vacation this week. We had company today and were out in the boat most of the day and then went straight to dinner. Sorry, I'll try to do better tomorrow.

Glad you are taking a much needed break Don...and take your time with the website, most of us here are very patient and very understanding of the fantastic job you do here!

[Winnipesaukee]

XCR, we won! A check reveals the over-moderation of the forum is over (at least, for now). What a proud day for America and free speech fighters everywhere!

[Shedwannabe]

Winnipesaukee

How deeply into your cheek can your tongue get? The debate over moderation is as over as the Iraq war was over when Bush declared "Mission Accomplished"? Are you suggesting this thread has another 7 years of life in it? ;-)

[jeffk]

It is a very rare place that you can say whatever you want to. Try walking through a public park and yelling at people at random and see how long you get away with it before a police officer has a conversation with you. Pure freedom of speech doesn't really exist. We are expected to use our voice in a respectful and non threatening manner. We are constantly being "moderated" by society.

In this forum we have always been moderated by the rules of the forum that we all agreed to when we join. Don has respectfully allowed us to police ourselves until we demonstrate that some of us are incapable of doing that. I'm sure Don has stepped in to enforce the rules through moderation with extreme regret. It is a disappointment in his vision for the site and a major hassle for him as well. The rules have not changed, Don as simply tightened up the enforcement. My experience with Don has been that he is extremely tolerant and fair. Don has not stopped debate, simply required that we be respectful and fair. That should not be a burden.

[Winnipesaukee]

Originally Posted by Skip

Quite frankly I find some of the comments and allegations made against Don here, and in the other thread, dispicable [sic].

Skip, Did you spend your legal career working for, I don't know, the Hazelwood School District?

Yes, I understand that because Don owns this website, legally he can do whatever he wants on it. We agree here.

But the point of my argument is that he is acting directly against what this country was founded upon. Surely I can disagree with his actions, right? We should also closely scrutinize him, because he is our one and only public authority figure (sorry, maybe I'm too much of an American... )

There is no other vehicle for public communication in the Lakes Region in which any and all ordinary people can log on and easily express their opinions. This forum is our ONLY option for expressing ourselves to other members of the Lakes Region. Since we have nowhere else to go, we are forced to take whatever Webmaster feeds us.

From a moral standpoint, in this American's opinion, he should not be censoring (and by censor I mean delay or change posts in any way, with or without the permission or notification of the poster) our messages. It is simply not his duty. His scope of censorship should be limited to banning those who frequent post hateful or pornographic messages.

I recently made a post in the boating section (Etiquette) which I later found to be changed. (I said "Capt Bonehead" and later found it changed to " {He} " ) Webmaster is already overstepping his role by micro-moderating our posts. And the least he could do is TELL us he changed something.

MY posts should not be delayed (and pre-read and changed) because of the actions of others.

Webmaster is not doing anything illegal (and nobody here thinks so). Again, the spirit of his actions are closer to that of the Chinese government than what we enjoy as Americans.

If our country hasn't burnt to the ground as a result of giving 300 million people this huge freedom of speech, why should it be so hard to control a couple hundred people on a message board?

Webmaster, just lift the pre-screening. I promise cities won't fall into the sea.