Summer Accidents

[XCR-700]

WOW, what a crazy busy summer for accidents on Winnipesaukee.

Not looking to stir the pot, just noting that its interesting that they all seem to involve common sense and basic boating and navigation skills, and that all the new laws and restrictions didn’t seem to help prevent these unfortunate events.

Also interesting to note that some of the operators most likely have the basic boating and navigation skills and should have had common sense, so it could be just unfortunate lapses in judgment and maybe a bit of luck of the draw.

Not too much more to say except be careful out there,,,

[Resident 2B]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

WOW, what a crazy busy summer for accidents on Winnipesaukee.

Not looking to stir the pot, just noting that its interesting that they all seem to involve common sense and basic boating and navigation skills, and that all the new laws and restrictions didn’t seem to help prevent these unfortunate events.

Also interesting to note that some of the operators most likely have the basic boating and navigation skills and should have had common sense, so it could be just unfortunate lapses in judgment and maybe a bit of luck of the draw.

Not too much more to say except be careful out there,,,

Great post!

Common sense and solid boating skills, including navagation, is what it is all about. The folks in Concord can be dubbed into making laws that will improve "boating safety", but in fact, the lake is no more safe today than it was two years ago. The people of NH might think the elected officials "fixed" a problem, but in reality, you cannot legislate common sense.

I believe a very experienced captain was at the helm of the "Lady Go Diva" today and still we had this result. I do not remember when the most recent "planting" of a GFBL boat onto the Witches occurred. In addition, many jumped onto the band-wagon of the "unspeakable law" when a certain female operator hit Diamond Island in very poor boating conditions. Today, in the middle of the day, with very clear visibility, in a well-known dangerous area, with good marking based upon the current laws, and look what happened, again with a very experienced operator at the helm!

Folks, accidents do happen and you cannot legislate common sense or safe boating solely by restricting sp_ed.

Time to rethink "boating safety in NH" based upon things that actually occur, like today's accident on the Witches, and not on biased and politically-generated hype.

Again, thank God no one was injured in today's accident.

R2B

[VtSteve]

Two boats sinking or capsized, a near head-on collision, 4 drownings in May. Sometimes they come in bunches, which is why statistics should be looked at over the long term. And when looked at that way, a pretty great record.

Was noise involved?

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

Two boats sinking or capsized, a near head-on collision, 4 drownings in May. Sometimes they come in bunches, which is why statistics should be looked at over the long term.

I'll buy 2 cents worth of that!

Lets hope the worst is behind us for this year,,,

[XCR-700]

Also just thinking how stressful such events are on the folks who are involved,,,

As a friendly reminder to everyone, if something doesn’t look right stop for just a moment and take a look at whats going on, where you are, and make sure all is as it should be.

And wherever possible, be sure to lend a hand, nothing worse that having people passing buy when your boat is not running or maybe something worse,,,

When it comes to the types of accidents we have seen this year a helping hand can be the difference between a saved life and one lost. It only takes a minute to stop and check if something doesn’t look quite right, and you will never miss the time lost out of your day if there was no problem, but it must seem like an eternity when you’re the one waiting for help.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

Two boats sinking or capsized, a near head-on collision, 4 drownings in May. Sometimes they come in bunches, which is why statistics should be looked at over the long term. And when looked at that way, a pretty great record.

Was noise involved?

Gee, it almost seems like this may be one of the UNsafest overall boating seasons on the lake.

[EllyPoinster]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Gee, it almost seems like this may be one of the UNsafest overall boating seasons on the lake.

I've got to wonder whether the great summer weather we have been enjoying this season is a factor. Better weather = more boats excursions = more opportunities for an accident?

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by EllyPoinster

I've got to wonder whether the great summer weather we have been enjoying this season is a factor. Better weather = more boats excursions = more opportunities for an accident?

I agree, much like last summer was effected (negatively) by weather, this one has as well (positively in this case).

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by EllyPoinster

I've got to wonder whether the great summer weather we have been enjoying this season is a factor. Better weather = more boats excursions = more opportunities for an accident?

I've seen more boats over here on the lake than ever before this summer. I also drive 500 miles per week on work, and the roads are pretty darn busy.

By comparison, last year was like a ghost town. Even the two 1/2 weeks of good weather last summer were pretty tame.

But given the accidents on Winni this summer, I don't think any could be linked to anything more than bad luck and/or inattention. Would not be a good year to look at statistics.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

But given the accidents on Winni this summer, I don't think any could be linked to anything more than bad luck and/or inattention. Would not be a good year to look at statistics.

I don't know about that... This may actually help hone in on where the problems are what can be done to avert them in the future.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

I don't know about that... This may actually help hone in on where the problems are what can be done to avert them in the future.

Of course you're right OCD.

That is the intent of statistics, to view final numbers and see if there is a correlation between rising and falling numbers. I think the message from boating accidents this year is "don't do that". Not much else you can do, except repeat the message.

[Coastal Laker]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

I've seen more boats over here on the lake than ever before this summer. I also drive 500 miles per week on work, and the roads are pretty darn busy.

By comparison, last year was like a ghost town. Even the two 1/2 weeks of good weather last summer were pretty tame.

But given the accidents on Winni this summer, I don't think any could be linked to anything more than bad luck and/or inattention. Would not be a good year to look at statistics.

Funny how perspective varies by person. I haven't seen much for boat traffic at all this year. I've definitely seen more than last year but nothing like years past and I'm out every weekend.

[Ryan]

It is truely a far cry from last summer when "[It] really made a huge difference
in returning civility to boating on Lake Winnipesaukee..." (LaDaSun 2/22/10).

IMHO - most of the incidents this year are due to a lack of education and/or common sense. I know many visitors that come to the lake either ignore or are simply ignorant to the certification requirements. Unfortunately, the resources are just not there for enforcement.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by Ryan

It is truely a far cry from last summer when "[It] really made a huge difference
in returning civility to boating on Lake Winnipesaukee..." (LaDaSun 2/22/10).

You can't resist, Mr. Signature Censored, throwing one one hand grenade into the discussion. As an officer of Winniopposition/SBONH, you should take the higher road. I rest my case.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

WOW, what a crazy busy summer for accidents on Winnipesaukee.

Not looking to stir the pot, just noting that its interesting that they all seem to involve common sense and basic boating and navigation skills, and that all the new laws and restrictions didn’t seem to help prevent these unfortunate events.

Also interesting to note that some of the operators most likely have the basic boating and navigation skills and should have had common sense, so it could be just unfortunate lapses in judgment and maybe a bit of luck of the draw.

Not too much more to say except be careful out there,,,

Nah just means it's time for winter, lots of snow, and good ice pack on the lake.... I'm so ready to bust out the sleds and go for a ride!!

[VitaBene]

We should be starting trail work parties soon for the Moultonborough Club. Hopefully we will have a good snow season based on the summer weather!

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

You can't resist, Mr. Signature Censored, throwing one one hand grenade into the discussion. As an officer of Winniopposition/SBONH, you should take the higher road. I rest my case.

Please keep in mind that just because someone disagrees with you or "any" restriction doesn't mean they are automatically an officer of SBONH. Please lets keep the organizations out of this topic.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Nah just means it's time for winter, lots of snow, and good ice pack on the lake.... I'm so ready to bust out the sleds and go for a ride!!

Well given that both of my boats are out of commission at the moment,,, I'll agree, bring it on Baby!!!

Actually one of the best snowmobile day trips I have had in years was a grand tour of Winnipesaukee 2 years ago.

Met David531 from this site that day up in Wolfboro and he guided us around the north side of the lake and took us back to his house for refeshments. It really made it a day to remember. David is a real class act, sure glad to be sharing Winnipesaukee with him (frozen or liquid!)

Looking forward to another tour on the lake when it looks like a winter wonderland.

But then again maybe not just yet,,, or as they all say, all things in due time,,,

Hope to hook up with you when it is sledding season.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Well given that both of my boats are out of commission at the moment,,, I'll agree, bring it on Baby!!!

Actually one of the best snowmobile day trips I have had in years was a grand tour of Winnipesaukee 2 years ago.

Met David531 from this site that day up in Wolfboro and he guided us around the north side of the lake and took us back to his house for refeshments. It really made it a day to remember. David is a real class act, sure glad to be sharing Winnipesaukee with him (frozen or liquid!)

Looking forward to another tour on the lake when it looks like a winter wonderland.

But then again maybe not just yet,,, or as they all say, all things in due time,,,

Hope to hook up with you when it is sledding season.

Sounds like a plan, I just hope this year we don't get screwed for snow like last year. It was getting old having to trailer north of the notches to ride. I never got the chance last year to take a ride through the Ossipee mountains, if you've never done it, well worth it!

Vita-Bene let me know when you start to do trail work, with enough notice I might be able to help out a bit, especially if it involves whapping trees down. Any excuse to use my chainsaw is a good one!

[ApS]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

"...they all seem to involve common sense and basic boating and navigation skills, and that all the new laws and restrictions didn’t seem to help prevent these unfortunate events.

Also interesting to note that some of the operators most likely have the basic boating and navigation skills and should have had common sense , so it could be just unfortunate lapses in judgment and maybe a bit of luck of the draw..."

Correct: New laws have had no play this season: The "law" of Hypothermia did, however.

But—as one who doesn't even own a cell phone—a read-up in this month's Popular Science is illuminating: If you use your cellphone while driving, "you're not using common sense".

Science Confirms the Obvious 2010:

"Sometimes it takes long, hard study to pin down what we thought we knew all along—and to reveal surprising findings beneath the surface of common sense. People drive poorly when talking on their cellphone..."

Originally Posted by EllyPoinster

I've got to wonder whether the great summer weather we have been enjoying this season is a factor. Better weather = more boats excursions = more opportunities for an accident?

1) One would think that more accidents would occur in bad weather; however, the Coast Guard has long reported that most accidents occur on sunny days with calm water.

2) Last season, we had an active "Blizzard" court case to keep lesser (but otherwise-newsworthy) Winnipesaukee news stories off the front pages.

3) Yet now, so far in the year 2010, the effects of the many sunny days can be witnessed by one's tanning abilities! This effect didn't show up (on me) even after one entire 2009 boating season—as reported here during all of August and September...!
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...2&postcount=51

Not to take away from the crash, but after all, this year's night-collision involved quite a crowd in one boat—was it eight aboard one boat—or eleven?) With only one injured, this suggests that the impact wasn't quite what we'd read about.

You may recall that running aground wasn't limited to The Witches last year.

Maybe a name-change to something more sinister is needed there?

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

You can't resist, Mr. Signature Censored, throwing one one hand grenade into the discussion. As an officer of Winniopposition/SBONH, you should take the higher road. I rest my case.

I think you might have taken my quote out of context. I was sticking to the topic at hand, simply pointing out the differences between the tranquility that was 2009 and the lack of that we shall refer to as summer 2010.

Again, you will stop at nothing to take a shot at SBONH.org. I'm neither an officer nor an owner of a GF boat, so again, you're comments are misguided.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Gee, it almost seems like this may be one of the UNsafest overall boating seasons on the lake.

One might think so from the comments here, and the many "thank-you's".

But Director Barrett said this summer had a huge amount of boat traffic, and many fewer accidents. Arrests for alcohol were way up, perhaps due to night enforcements using a new tool in the NHMP quiver.

And we've just completed a full and busy season.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

One might think so from the comments here, and the many "thank-you's".

But Director Barrett said this summer had a huge amount of boat traffic, and many fewer accidents. Arrests for alcohol were way up, perhaps due to night enforcements using a new tool in the NHMP quiver.

And we've just completed a full and busy season.

I agree wholeheartedly.

The Lake is safe, continues to be safe and always was safe.

Even in the years of the highest accident statistics, the numbers are insignificant given the handful of accidents and deaths/injuries versus the hundreds of thousands of boaters plying the Lake every summer.

Yes, the Lake gets crowded, weather cooperating, on at best 10 to 12 weekends a year. And if you boat in the areas of high concentrations it can get aggravating at times.

But boating on Winni is one of the safest things you can do with your family while enjoying the summer in New Hampshire.

Geesh Bob...when is the last time you and I wholeheartedly agreed on a post?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Skip

when is the last time you and I wholeheartedly agreed on a post?

Who's in agreement?

1) I'd always taken great pride watching NH boaters removing flood debris from an otherwise pristine Lake Winnipesaukee and putting it inside their own boats. That still occurs, but with the delicate graphics, hand-rubbed gelcoat polishings and white vinyl bolsters of too many visiting boaters, it's hardly becoming a widespread practice.

2) For 46 consecutive summers, living lakeside at the same spot on Lake Winnipesaukee one would expect a different perspective.

On August 08, 2002—with a letter to the editor—I called it right.

The title, "Anarchy and Mayhem" did reflect the unhappy condition that reigned too long on these waters: "Noise and Action" actually appeared as a Winnipesaukee headline in a major New Hampshire newspaper. (And at the forum).

3) Putting out "The Unwelcome Mat" seems to have moderated visitors whose recent inland-waters attitude was contrary to what I'd seen all those years on Lake Winnipesaukee—directly before me, my extended family and guests.

At the same time, I was privy to the same boats on "big-water" off Florida's sandy coastlines. We don't have sandy shorelines to catch our navigational errors here—and nothing approaches the "big-water" there.

When some boats on our inland waters rival military boats in appearance and performance, one can expect a gloomy assessment by residents. With all the paint, show, pretense, and noise, "stolen valor" comes to mind.

4) Navigation spars were made of wood just ten years ago: many of those wooden spars soared high above the heads of most boats' captains. Just ten years ago, nobody complained of "not-seeing" Winnipesaukee's wood spars, which would lean-over alarmingly!

Waterlogged, they were like "dead-heads"—or even dull lances pointed at the gunwales of Winnipesaukee's over-sized boats. Colliding with those waterlogged spars must have been a wake-up call to our visiting boaters.

As the years progressed, a growing number of spars were "made invisible" by breaking-off through collisions: Today, Maine's H&H Propeller service actually operates a delivery shuttle service that brings a brisk and booming replacement-propeller business to Lake Winnipesaukee's boat dealers.

*Shrug*.

When the majority of boats on the lake were wooden boats, you didn't take the chance of making splinters with those wood markers—that were not unlike telephone poles—anchored in large numbers around Lake Winnipesaukee.

5) I would never say that the lake has always been safe: it's a scenic lake with recently-added distractions—that hadn't included gauges and electronics that glow—to rob one's night-vision.

Future Winnipesaukee headlines should be less unnerving to us but you can count on some boater about to make headlines.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Who's in agreement?

1) I'd always taken great pride watching NH boaters removing flood debris from an otherwise pristine Lake Winnipesaukee and putting it inside their own boats. That still occurs, but with the delicate graphics, hand-rubbed gelcoat polishings and white vinyl bolsters of too many visiting boaters, it's hardly becoming a widespread practice.

2) For 46 consecutive summers, living lakeside at the same spot on Lake Winnipesaukee one would expect a different perspective.

On August 08, 2002—with a letter to the editor—I called it right.

The title, "Anarchy and Mayhem" did reflect the unhappy condition that reigned too long on these waters: "Noise and Action" actually appeared as a Winnipesaukee headline in a major New Hampshire newspaper. (And at the forum).

3) Putting out "The Unwelcome Mat" seems to have moderated visitors whose recent inland-waters attitude was contrary to what I'd seen all those years on Lake Winnipesaukee—directly before me, my extended family and guests.

At the same time, I was privy to the same boats on "big-water" off Florida's sandy coastlines. We don't have sandy shorelines to catch our navigational errors here—and nothing approaches the "big-water" there.

When some boats on our inland waters rival military boats in appearance and performance, one can expect a gloomy assessment by residents. With all the paint, show, pretense, and noise, "stolen valor" comes to mind.

4) Navigation spars were made of wood just ten years ago: many of those wooden spars soared high above the heads of most boats' captains. Just ten years ago, nobody complained of "not-seeing" Winnipesaukee's wood spars, which would lean-over alarmingly!

Waterlogged, they were like "dead-heads"—or even dull lances pointed at the gunwales of Winnipesaukee's over-sized boats. Colliding with those waterlogged spars must have been a wake-up call to our visiting boaters.

As the years progressed, a growing number of spars were "made invisible" by breaking-off through collisions: Today, Maine's H&H Propeller service actually operates a delivery shuttle service that brings a brisk and booming replacement-propeller business to Lake Winnipesaukee's boat dealers.

*Shrug*.

When the majority of boats on the lake were wooden boats, you didn't take the chance of making splinters with those wood markers—that were not unlike telephone poles—anchored in large numbers around Lake Winnipesaukee.

5) I would never say that the lake has always been safe: it's a scenic lake with recently-added distractions—that hadn't included gauges and electronics that glow—to rob one's night-vision.

Future Winnipesaukee headlines should be less unnerving to us but you can count on some boater about to make headlines.

APS, do you get a sore shoulder from trying to pat yourself on the back?

Would one of your dull headed lances do a number on a lake vistor's undersized vessel?

The only boats that I have seen on this lake that look like military boats are the MP's Rigid Inflatable Boats.:

I think you should start petitioning to have the oversized and overpowered Mt Washington banished from this lake

This lake will never be "safe". It was not safe when the Algonquins paddled across the broads long before a non-native American set foot upon this land. We can only strive to make the lake safer through education and enforcement of the law.

[RailroadJoe]

Enforcement of the law ! Just like our enforcement of the highway laws ?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

APS, do you get a sore shoulder from trying to pat yourself on the back?

Would one of your dull headed lances do a number on a lake vistor's undersized vessel?

The only boats that I have seen on this lake that look like military boats are the MP's Rigid Inflatable Boats.:

I think you should start petitioning to have the oversized and overpowered Mt Washington banished from this lake

This lake will never be "safe". It was not safe when the Algonquins paddled across the broads long before a non-native American set foot upon this land. We can only strive to make the lake safer through education and enforcement of the law.

This is the best post I have seen in a long time! :rolle ye2::bana na:

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by RailroadJoe

Enforcement of the law ! Just like our enforcement of the highway laws ?

Yes, I would say so. At least the NH highways I travel (93 and 293) a few times a week, at very varied hours heading to Manchester airport or MA for meetings. I usually set my cruise control at 72-73 in a 65 MPH zone and find that most do the same. I rarely see egregious driving violoations.

100% enforcement is impossible, but I think most people that drive in NH realize the SP or local departments are pretty vigilant (I do live in Moultonboro, famous for the gauntlet!).

[ApS]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

This lake will never be "safe".

Your argument is not with me—but with member Skip, who continues to assert:

"The Lake is safe, continues to be safe and always was safe."

Originally Posted by VitaBene

I usually set my cruise control at 72-73 in a 65 MPH zone and find that most do the same. I rarely see egregious driving violations.

Then you missed the knot of southbound motorists I was caught up in going 85-MPH, on the way to the border. I realized I was "way-over", pulled in, and was promptly passed by a "Pilgrim" bus—going 90!

Originally Posted by VitaBene

(I do live in Moultonboro, famous for the gauntlet!).

When managing "the gauntlet", one must pass not one—but two—schools with kiddies.

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Would one of your dull headed lances do a number on a lake vistor's undersized vessel?

You misquote—then miss my point completely.

Each wood spar was a "silent sentinel" on every boater after dark—PVC, not so much.

Originally Posted by VitaBene

The only boats that I have seen on this lake that look like military boats are the MP's Rigid Inflatable Boats.:

They don't have to be painted gray to look military. The attachment below shows a near-shore vessel of a foreign military that threatened a U. S. Navy ship in the Arabian Sea.

Another appeared recently in The U.S. Naval Institute's publication of Proceedings, a monthly periodical. The issue reviews just one poor Caribbean country's interdiction fleet—featuring one of eight similar patrol boats—made by Nor-Tech.

"...built without bunks and water tanks to fit 100 extra gallons of fuel and other equipment, such as a FLIR camera and communications equipment. They are used for coastal and riverine patrol, search and rescue operations, anti-narcotics operations, go-fast interdiction. They are armed with a M-60 machine gun and they carry M-16 rifles."
—Wikipedia

Isn't that "military"?

Here's the foreign-Navy vessel that threatened a U.S. Navy vessel:

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

...Your argument is not with me—but with member Skip...

Once again you embellish.

While Vitabene and I might have a difference of opinion on the term safety, it is definitely not an argument.

Its unfortunate that you can't seem to grasp the difference of two adults having a difference of opinion on a subject and moving on, versus continually arguing the same point ad nauseum.

I must admit that in the Land of Bickerers, you remain King.

But no, Vitabene and I have no argument here. We are just two adults with a different point of view that express opinions and then move on.

You should try it some time!

[ApS]

We could move on, but when views are diametrically opposed, it's hardly "bickering".

I view Lake Winnipesaukee's surface 7 days a week, yet I agree with VitaBene on "safety"—as I stated:

"I would never say that the lake has always been safe: it's a scenic lake with recently-added distractions—that hadn't included gauges and electronics that glow—to rob one's night-vision."

A lake view from a distant city—via video link—appears to produce strange definitions, unrealistic expectations, and alienating conclusions.

Safer boating took place this year when incredibly good weather should have produced the usual increase in boating mishaps. Patting the backs of the NHMP doesn't cut it with me: they do a decent job, but credit for "safe waters" goes to boating education and an increasing familiarity with New Hampshire's boating rules.

"Dropping off-plane" seems to have been too much trouble for some captains—and occasional exceptions did occur—but let's not forget that a reduction in numbers of the "usual suspects" occurred when The Unwelcome Mat was put out.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

They don't have to be painted gray to look military. The attachment below shows a near-shore vessel of a foreign military that threatened a U. S. Navy ship in the Arabian Sea.

Another appeared recently in The U.S. Naval Institute's publication of Proceedings, a monthly periodical. The issue reviews just one poor Caribbean country's interdiction fleet—featuring one of eight similar patrol boats—made by Nor-Tech.

Isn't that "military"?

It's not just color. When someone mentions a military-looking vessel, the first thing that pops into the average person's head is NOT usually a Nor-Tech 39ft center console with twin, triple or quad outboards and an official-gov't-looking seal on the hull! The only thing that makes that boat a "gov't naval vessel" is the fact it has weapons and instead of the usual Nor-Tech custom graphics, it has what looks like a government seal on the side. That boat is the exception, not the rule.

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

"Dropping off-plane" seems to have been too much trouble for some captains—and occasional exceptions did occur—

Did and still do apparently; my wife and I watched a 24-26ft Monterey (I believe) fly through the NWZ between Eagle and Governor's Islands yesterday around 6:35pm, on plane and probably travelling about 30-35mph. He didn't even TRY to slow down! Of course, he was the only boater in that zone at the time so maybe the law didn't apply to him???? I can't tell you how many times we've watched boats drive through that NWZ as if it didn't exist!! We had one that looked like he was going to climb up my stern until he realized we were in a NWZ and I was travelling at NWS! It's always amusing when we have to force someone to obey the law!

Also, it appears that NWZ's don't apply to the pilots working for CruiseNH. About a month ago, we watched either the Doris E. or Sophie C. cruise through the same NWZ at what was probably their normal cruising speed but that still creates a pretty good wake. I know because we were IN that NWZ when they went through and their wake had us wallowing in the water pretty good as we went through at NWS.

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

but let's not forget that a reduction in numbers of the "usual suspects" occurred when The Unwelcome Mat was put out.

Would that be the new speed limit? 'Cause damn, as "unwelcome" as we are, we're still here (and we're not going anywhere) and the area businesses are still more than happy to take our money! I guess they don't "dislike" performance boaters as much as they SAY they do!!

[tc_mike]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

Also, it appears that NWZ's don't apply to the pilots working for CruiseNH. About a month ago, we watched either the Doris E. or Sophie C. cruise through the same NWZ at what was probably their normal cruising speed but that still creates a pretty good wake. I know because we were IN that NWZ when they went through and their wake had us wallowing in the water pretty good as we went through at NWS.

I have also witnessed this many times. It seems to me that these two boats do not alter speed in no wake zones. This does cause a bit of a jam for boats who *are* travelling at headway speed as large wakes are much less manageable at very slow speed.

I believe that the Mount also does not alter speed in no wake areas - but it's not really a big deal because her wake is virtually non-existent.