How has the lake changed????

[Bearislandmoose]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

I think it did more harm than good.

I'm sure it did just that for a very few people. I know of at least eight of them. But those people were the ones who caused all this in the first place, so they have to live with what they wrought. And those are the people you should be mad at, not following. These people "thundered" around the lake at completely inappropriate speeds in completely inappropriate vessels, causing many of the lake's more appropriate users to stay home. Weekends especially had become a time for "regular folk" to leave their boats sitting at their docks, because it had become a free-for-all out there. How was that fair? These few loud aggressive boaters were on this very forum bragging about speeds like 80 or 90 MPH, on this lake! On the weekend! How in the world could that have been "safe"? And some of these same boaters had names on their boats that suggested no respect for others...suggested that they'd love an opportunity to run you down if you didn't get out of their way. And some of them would be on these forums and the other GFBL forums after those same weekends talking about all the time they had spent at Naswa, how much they had drunk over the same weekend they were boating so fast, and how big their heads were on Monday morning. How did they get home from the Naswa in that condition? Meanwhile, we have people being killed on the lake by some of these same drivers in some of these same boats, going too fast, and we are supposed to excuse it because "they were drinking"?
Then these same cowboys start an anti-SL club and name it "Safe" boaters??? And you guys fall for it???
I feel bad for the good, safe boater who likes the high speed thrill and who had bought an expensive offshore boat and used to like to put the throttle down now and then, when it was safe to others for him to do so (like on a Wednesday afternoon in late November). But he was not the object of that SL law, he is an unintended but necessary victim of it. And he needs to recognize who brought the law on him. It was not Warren or Ed or Sandy (assuming those are all not the same teenage boy). It was people like OCD. This is one of the very people who could not understand what Lake Winnipesaukee was to so many people and made the SL such an overwhelming favorite. Now you rally behind him and expect him to get it repealed for you? It's like hiring OJ Simpson as your spokesman in an anti gun control campaign. He might get the NWZ at the Barber's Pole repealed, but the fastest you'll ever be able to go through there (legally) is 45mph.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by Bearislandmoose

He might get the NWZ at the Barber's Pole repealed, but the fastest you'll ever be able to go through there (legally) is 45mph.

Unless of course the get out of my way crowd continues to thumb their nose at reasonable limits. I could see this crowd pushing the likes of LeTourneau and Forsythe to push for a bill such that there would be no speed limit on the broads("hey, what have we got to lose"). In response, their opposition agrees that yes, the broads can have a faster speed limit(45 MPH) than the rest of the lake while the bays and coves would all have a SL of 30-35 MPH. One might easily argue that 45 MPH is too fast for Wolfeboro Bay, Winter Harbor(or even the Barber Pole). And then the people in the Barber Pole might not even need to pursue a NWZ! Funny how things sometimes work out.

[Bearislandmoose]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

... don't preach to me or tell me what to do unless you decided to be civil.

Agreed. I am a big advocate of civility.

[Bearislandmoose]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

What make you guys thank the lake is better off?

Thank you for not calling me any names.

To answer your question; I found boating much more enjoyable the past two years.
I found that plenty of the big performance boats were still around, they just seemed to have been going slower this year. I can't say whether they stayed under 45 all the time, but they certainly were not out there going 80 or 90 anymore, at least while I was out there.
While I saw just as many boaters on the lake this past year, I noticed a greater number of those were smaller "family" boats; 21-footers and such. Yet I felt a lot more respect and friendliness out there. Maybe it was just a coincidence, or maybe I just happened to be in the right place at the right time so often over the past two years, but that is what I saw.
While I do have a power boat that might be able to do 45 (not really sure), I typically spend my boating time trolling or sailing. I never had a single case this year or last where a big performance boat was thundering straight at me, way too fast, and I had to worry whether he was going to run me down. I never once had to say an Act of Contrition or think about jumping overboard. I cannot count the number of times in past years where I had such incidents. Maybe it was just a coincidence.
You might disagree...you might be seeing things differently. That is your right. You might have seen hundreds of former performance boaters now piloting Carvers and using them to terrorize the shore front owners with huge eroding wakes. But I did not see that...not once. You didn't see what I saw, I didn't see what you saw. No big deal. I don't think you are lying and I hope you don't think I am lying. I just saw different things than you did.

Isn't a civil debate fun?

Ed

[sunset on the dock]

The biggest thing we noticed this summer was a difference in our trip through the Broads to go to Wolfeboro. Same thing...no huge performance boats coming up behind you (we wondering whether our relatively small boat will be seen) then passing by you with a deafening roar. No boats tearing out through the inlet to Wolfeboro Bay at some ungodly speed. We were far more comfortable having the kids out in kayaks and our 11 y/o seemed so proud to have a little more independence which comes not only with age but our comfort level to let him venture further from the cottage. Our neighbors pretty much agree that the noise level was significantly less. The whole scenario seems more in tune to what people want when coming to the lake for recreation. And all this with businesses in the area (according to some article I read in the LDS or Citizen) reporting they are doing significantly better than last year.

[Bearislandmoose]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

... passing by you with a deafening roar.

They call that "thundering". There are actually clubs for these people built around this activity. They are called "thunder clubs". And they have forums where they brag about who is the best "thunderer". I swear this is the truth. You can't make this stuff up.

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

... Like loud mouth from George Diner flaunting the Meridith bay no wake. How about Rusty Maclear and his big resort? Dumping tons of phosphate and chemicals on his million dollar lawn? He's one of the founders. How about Brad Thurston and his looney renters. They are really bad. How come the founders can't show good examples of being good for the lake?

I can't speak for them, but anyone selfishly breaking our laws is a real idiot in my book (sorry for using such a harsh term, but sometimes it is called for). I don't know any of these people, but I think you should report them. I have no qualms about reporting illegal activity when I see it.

[Bearislandmoose]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

So what is the Winfabs and the SL supporters doing to promote safety?

I can't speak for anyone else, but as for me; I am respecting all of our boating laws, respecting other boaters, making sure that my boating does not have any negative impact on anyone else, and not putting any other boaters at risk just so that I can have a thrill. I believe if we all did the same, there would be no problems on the lake.

[Bearislandmoose]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

I thought you guys were going to pass laws limiting size of boats and HP.

I'm not involved with anything like that. Where did you hear this? Was it from the same person who told you that Rusty McLear is dumping phosphates in the lake? Was it from the same person who told you all the performance boat owners are trading them for cabin cruisers and swamping the shore front owners to punish them for supporting the SL? Was it the same person who told you the BP lakefront owners are opposed to a NWZ there and that they were behind the effort to repeal it? We need to put a stop to all these stories if they are false, or start gathering more evidence so we can prosecute these perpetrators if these stories are true.
Please give more details and I will help you address these things. What, specifically, have you heard and from whom, specifically? The only thing I hate more than a polluter or an environmental terrorist is a liar.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Bearislandmoose

The only thing I hate more than a polluter or an environmental terrorist is a liar.

Is a liar someone who makes a promise never to post here again but is back here again with numerous posts? Is that like a lie or just another exaggerated statement that is just one of many posted to mislead and go off topic?

I wish you would keep your promise. This web site was a nicer place for that short time without your constant character assassinations, personal attacks and skewed view. We know you dislike Scott, SBONH and performance boats. Pounding that message over and over again is getting sickening and ruining a great web site.

Have a nice life Bearisland moose (aka elchase and whomever) but take your lies elsewhere please. Honor your promise.

[Bearislandmoose]

Originally Posted by Mark

Is a liar someone who makes a promise never to post here again but is back here again with numerous posts?

I am keeping my promise not to post on that moderated forum where I made that promise, and will only post on this unmoderated forum unless someone taunts me back over there...I promise.

Originally Posted by Mark

that is just one of many posted to mislead and go off topic?

Ironically, your post is misleading and off topic.

Originally Posted by Mark

I wish you would keep your promise.

I'm sure you would like all of the 86% of Granite Staters who favor the SL to shut up and let you guys turn this into another Winnilakers.com. Or you might enjoy the SBONH forum better... nobody is allowed to post there unless they are anti SL. Every post is given 7 "thanks". It's a mutual admiration society. But every post is also being screenshot for future reference

Originally Posted by Mark

We know you dislike performance boats.

I love performance boats...at 45MPH or less. Stop lying.

[Bearislandmoose]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

The Church Landing pollution was published last summer in the Meredith paper. The free one available in Hannaford's.

I searched but cannot find anything where Rusty McClear was found dumping phosphates into the lake. I saw an article where there was run-off through the stream entering near Town Docks, but that was assumed to come form the Fire Station project. Can you give me a link to the story or tell me the date? I'm not saying that you are making this up, but I'd rather discuss it over the actual facts versus a vague recollection of them.

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

As for the BP No wake, a number of my friends own property there. They never knew it was coming. That what pi**ed them off.

I'm confused. In most of your posts, you have expressed hatred of shore front owners. Now you are agreeing they have special rights? Anyway, the only person from SBONH-NHRBA that I am aware of that has come forward claiming to own waterfront property on BP is Hazelnut, and he has said he agrees with is neighbors and is in favor of the NWZ, though admitting that is for selfish reasons. Can you tell us who else you know who lives on the BP and is against the NWZ? I'd assume they have been making their opposition public, and signed the SBONH-NHRBA petition, so there should be no reason not to identify them. I'd just like to compare the names to the tax maps.

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

I was a member of Winfabs in the beginning. I thought it was a good thing.

I've just spoken to several of the "founders", and nobody remembers you or anyone who they think could be you. Can you tell me if you were using an alias? Where/when were the meetings you attended, and who exactly said they were going to push for HP and size limits? Please provide some evidence of your membership so we can show that these people are lying.

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

As you can see, I'm not making these things up. Give your friend Sandy, Rusty, Merl or Brad a call if you want further clarification.

These are not my friends, and I am not calling you a liar, but as I said, I cannot confirm your account at all. Please give me more specifics and I will get to the bottom of this. If these things you are saying are true, I want to expose it as much as anyone.

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

I will be against any and all future laws that will tell me what I can do on the lake.

How about a bill that tells you that you have to let some stranger tie up to your dock overnight if he says he is drunk? Are you against that?

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

We are not going to give in to someone who is not a lake native or residence.

Like OCD (Scott Verdonck), who is from MA?

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

BTW I happen to enjoy all the pro and amatuer races we had on the lake. It's a thing of the pass, Thanks to you supporters.

But such permitted events are exempt from the speed limit. And those races stopped ten years before the SL for financial reasons. So what do the SL supporters have to do with that?

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

They moved the water ski events to Winnisquam and one pro water skier moved to Rocky Pond in Gilmaton. A pro wakeboarder move to Lake Norman in NC. Thanks to all the hostilities brewed on this lake.

These events moved from Winni, one to NC, because of the SL supporters...ten years before the SL? If that is what they are telling you, then I think they are pulling your chain. Don't you?

[sunset on the dock]

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, " martini " in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"


In light of the alcohol tainted reputation of your movement, isn't it time for a new signature?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, " martini " in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"


In light of the alcohol tainted reputation of your movement, isn't it time for a new signature?

As I've said before: How many times a day do you people polish your halos?

[Bearislandmoose]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

As I've said before: How many times a day do you people polish your halos?

Are you defending BWI? If one of "us people" had a signature like that, you would not be the first to chastise it? Come on.
That signature is the perfect summary the SOBNH philosophy. I'm surprised you all don't use it.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Bearislandmoose

Are you defending BWI? If one of "us people" had a signature like that, you would not be the first to chastise it? Come on.
That signature is the perfect summary the SOBNH philosophy. I'm surprised you all don't use it.

I know, right? I mean his signature is an obvious implication that he is a regular offender of BWI laws. And of course, that also implies that all SBONH members are regular offenders of BWI laws.

Who wouldn't come to that conclusion?

Hey BIM, you have never seen that quote, or a similar one 1,000 times before in other places?

[Bearislandmoose]

Originally Posted by chipj29

Hey BIM, you have never seen that quote, or a similar one 1,000 times before in other places?

Yes ...on the SOBNH and OSO forums...where it belongs. But BH is the only one who claims to be drinking martini's while piloting his boat. The others seem to prefer beer, maybe because it doesn't spill as easily as they "skid in to the dock sideways", screaming "WOO HOO what a ride! Was that a kayak I ran over out there?".
Thank God for the SL.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by Bearislandmoose

Yes ...on the SOBNH and OSO forums...where it belongs. But BH is the only one who claims to be drinking martini's while piloting his boat. The others seem to prefer beer, maybe because it doesn't spill as easily as they "skid in to the dock sideways", screaming "WOO HOO what a ride! Was that a kayak I ran over out there?".
Thank God for the SL.

I could use a martini right now after reading this diatribe.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Bearislandmoose

Yes ...on the SOBNH and OSO forums...where it belongs. But BH is the only one who claims to be drinking martini's while piloting his boat. The others seem to prefer beer, maybe because it doesn't spill as easily as they "skid in to the dock sideways", screaming "WOO HOO what a ride! Was that a kayak I ran over out there?".
Thank God for the SL.

Please provide exact quotes from BH where he claims to be drinking martinis while piloting his boat.

Please provide exact quotes where anyone claims to "skid in to the dock sideways".

Nevermind, don't bother. You won't find it, because the quotes don't exist. You are making stuff up, as usual.

[Bearislandmoose]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Sandy, Rusty, Merl and Brad are the founders. So obviously you are spinning something! I'm outa here!

You throw out all these wild accusations about people, make unsubstantiated claims that you were part of Winfabs until you "found God", and tell all these unbelievable tales, then when asked for some details to back up any of it all, you accuse the asker of "spinning something" and just say "I'm outa here!" (sic)? Sounds very fishy to me. If I didn't see how truthful a person you claim to be, I'd have to suspect you have been making all this stuff up to scare and slander. Is SBONH-NHRBA putting you up to this?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

They don't respect the rights of the property owners as most of them are not voters. I'm one of few year round residents that do not tolerate laws telling us lake folks what to do.

The law tells lakefront residents that anyone can anchor in three inches of water directly in front of your place.

"The lake belongs to everybody".

How well are you tolerating that?

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

I think it is Winfabs as most of their signature came from elsewhere in NH. Not from the lakes region. They had the legislatures fooled that they were signatures from the lake.

Why not elsewhere besides the lakes region?

"The lake belongs to everybody".

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

More laws. It will never end.

"The lake belongs to everybody", but look to SBONH-NHRBA to bring at least three more laws to the lake—this year alone.

If I were a resident, I'd be embarrassed for SBONH-NHRBA in their arrogance will attempt to "flip" hard-fought New Hampshire laws.

What must SBONH-NHRBA think of New Hampshire's legislators, that such years-long deliberations can be so readily overturned?