No Wake at the Barbers Pole...???

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Regarding ALL the discussion that's been had in this thread and the two letters to the editor posted here, how can the BP NWZ not be wide enough for two boats to pass each other while maintaining the minimum 150' between both crafts and shore? Using Google Earth, I measured the width of that area; the minimum width I found, shore to shore, was 825 ft while other areas were greater than 900 ft. Two boats passing each other would need an absolute minimum of 450' to allow for distances between themselves and shore on either side. Even if you allow 500', that STILL leaves 300'+ to maintain distance from other boats and shore. What am I missing when so many people are saying it's too narrow?!?!?

Just for reference, the Eagle Island NWZ measured at 710' at it's narrowest, also using Google Earth. I can't tell you how many boats I've seen blowing through this one on plane; I've even caught the Doris E (or Sophie C, I don't remember which) buzzing through without slowing down!

Granted, I don't know how accurate (or inaccurate) Google Earth is when it comes to measuring but unless someone has strung a tape measure across or used surveying instruments, it's close enough for me!

[VtSteve]

You're not missing anything. Except for this one area on the lake, every-thing's just peachy

[gtagrip]

Why is it that all are in agreement with what SBONH exposed this scam except 3 or 4 people in this forum. They tried to sneak a NWZ through the process and got called on it. I guess it's only the sneaks in this forum that are upset about it.

[VtSteve]

I like those odds actually

The real people without an agenda were exposed to what those few folks stand for. Hazelnut and others sought to be inclusionary, and not make reactionary statements pro or con on this issue. HN was also very concerned that the people that lived there were not informed. Pretty much period.

I had some people (nobody that's posted on the NWZ threads), ask me privately what I thought of people gushing with sheer delight over the SL issue and how well it's worked, yet when speaking of the BP area, it seems like mass chaos and ultra high speed. I did not once state the obvious.

They figured it out themselves. The bottom line is this. As a group, there can, and will be, disagreements over many things. But the vast majority of us try to discuss things out in the open, whether we agree with one side or the other. In this case, there were mixed results over actual NWZ. But there were only the same few that didn't think the methods or means used were pretty sneaky.

So some folks decided it was time to let everyone in on this little secret. I think the majority of people in this forum got a real eye-opener from these disclosures.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by gtagrip

Why is it that all are in agreement with what SBONH exposed this scam except 3 or 4 people in this forum.

Why is it that the GFBL crowd feels/says they are the oppressed majority when most people polled in NH and a majority of our state legislature were in favor of a SL?

Why is it that some people feel jeans and sweatshirts are appropriate attire when appearing before a legislative body in Concord?

.......The answer my friend is blowin' in the wind.........


I suspect the people in the BP will indeed get their NWZ. Having spoken with some of the people involved, it seems that in previous attempts virtually everyone on the mainland side of the BP, people on Squirrel and Little Birch Islands, and many people along the BP shore of Cow Is. including many of HN's neighbors and +/-? even the former owner of his house signed in favor of the NWZ. This varies significantly with HN's version of only 3 people in the BP being in favor. I think some of the people on this forum need to read the previously printed (on this forum) emails to the DOS by residents of the BP as to why they felt the NWZ was needed. The DOS agreed. I wouldn't be surprised to see the DOS eventually institute this NWZ by administrative rule, similar to how a SL was instituted on Squam. People are indeed starting to take back the lake from a crowd hanging in the shadows who claim they are a majority but are clearly not.

[fatlazyless]

"New Hampshire's procedure for declaring a 'no wake' zone under scrutiny after reversal of 'Barber Pole' decision" is the title of a front page article in today's Nov 20 www.laconiadailysun.com

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

"New Hampshire's procedure for declaring a 'no wake' zone under scrutiny after reversal of 'Barber Pole' decision" is the title of a front page article in today's Nov 20 www.laconiadailysun.com

You mean this isn't an anonymous op-ed piece written under an alias riddled with lies and spin, but an actual article, complete with facts and stuff?

Get out!

[fatlazyless]

Michael Kitch, a reporter for the LaDaSun wrote it, and he writes lots of articles or reports on local town meetings, and in learning journalism, journalism students try to learn the difference between reporting and editorializing, if such a thing is even possible.

To read it like a printed paper newspaper, go to "new LaDaSun format" last message - message #16 for a working link which turns the LaDaSun back into its' old style.

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Why is it that the GFBL crowd feels/says they are the oppressed majority when most people polled in NH and a majority of our state legislature were in favor of a SL?

Why is it that some people feel jeans and sweatshirts are appropriate attire when appearing before a legislative body in Concord?

.......The answer my friend is blowin' in the wind.........


I suspect the people in the BP will indeed get their NWZ. Having spoken with some of the people involved, it seems that in previous attempts virtually everyone on the mainland side of the BP, people on Squirrel and Little Birch Islands, and many people along the BP shore of Cow Is. including many of HN's neighbors and +/-? even the former owner of his house signed in favor of the NWZ. This varies significantly with HN's version of only 3 people in the BP being in favor. I think some of the people on this forum need to read the previously printed (on this forum) emails to the DOS by residents of the BP as to why they felt the NWZ was needed. The DOS agreed. I wouldn't be surprised to see the DOS eventually institute this NWZ by administrative rule, similar to how a SL was instituted on Squam. People are indeed starting to take back the lake from a crowd hanging in the shadows who claim they are a majority but are clearly not.

Why is it that you and others of your ilk conveniently fail to admit that SBONH has only questioned the legality of the process regarding the establishment of the BP NWZ the rather than the result? If indeed "virtually" all (who can claim legal residency--a fact that you conveniently leave out!) in the area of the BP are in favor of a NWZ, then let them participate in and abide with the decision of the Tuftonboro authorities.

The fact that the BP NWZ was not established in a manner consisitent with the rules and regulations of the town of Tuftonboro apparently does not matter to you as long as the ends justify the means. The fact that you remain silent on the surrepticious, disingenuous, and unscrupulous manner in which the BP NWZ was initially established is abhorring.

It is occasions such as this that are the basis for the contempt and loathing that NH natives and residents express towards individuals such as you, as I am doing now.

[VtSteve]

You have them pegged pretty well Yankee. They lurk, they smirk, they slither around behind people's backs to get their dirty deeds done. They avoid any and all discussion of facts.

Everyone knows the persona that has stated, many times, that Winni was an absolute boater's paradise last year and this year. He said it was because of the SL. Out of the blue, after slithering around behind people's backs, they come up with a NWZ at the BP.

This very same person states (as they all do now), that it's Full Throttle and anything goes in that area. Nobody's heard that before, not until after the NWZ issue blew up in their collective faces.

So how can it be true that everything's ok but the BP area is crazy fast? Well it can't be. They know that, so when pressed, they make a few snarky comments directed at the MP about lack of enforcement and move on.

The only thing dangerous about this little group of nasty men is their deranged ideas. One of them even stated a preference for having the lake be a large NWZ, as he enjoys that boating the best. But once they found out that the people they hate the most might even discuss civilly the NWZ issue, they got even madder. They had to make it appear that these people drove boats at 200 mph through there. In fact, some suggested it Might be a good idea, and wanted to bring everyone in on it.

The gang of grumpy old men would have nothing to do with this. They slithered behind everyone's backs and passed a ridiculous law before everyone woke up. Fact si, they are pathological, never, ever to be trusted. Their motives are about an insincere as any I've head or read about. They'd make DC politicians blush. The only thing they're upset about is that they were found out.

If you want to really tick them off and send them packing, just keep spreading the truth.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Why is it that the GFBL crowd feels/says they are the oppressed majority when most people polled in NH and a majority of our state legislature were in favor of a SL?

Why is it that some people feel jeans and sweatshirts are appropriate attire when appearing before a legislative body in Concord?

.......The answer my friend is blowin' in the wind.........


I suspect the people in the BP will indeed get their NWZ. Having spoken with some of the people involved, it seems that in previous attempts virtually everyone on the mainland side of the BP, people on Squirrel and Little Birch Islands, and many people along the BP shore of Cow Is. including many of HN's neighbors and +/-? even the former owner of his house signed in favor of the NWZ. This varies significantly with HN's version of only 3 people in the BP being in favor. I think some of the people on this forum need to read the previously printed (on this forum) emails to the DOS by residents of the BP as to why they felt the NWZ was needed. The DOS agreed. I wouldn't be surprised to see the DOS eventually institute this NWZ by administrative rule, similar to how a SL was instituted on Squam. People are indeed starting to take back the lake from a crowd hanging in the shadows who claim they are a majority but are clearly not.

I've never in my life read bigger LIES in a post. This entire post is a lie. The former owner of my house is dead. So unless you dug him up and used your hand to guide his signature you are telling lies.


Now for some levity:

Enjoy this one TB:

http://www2.laconiadailysun.com/story/barber-pole

New Hampshire's procedure for declaring a 'no wake' zone under scrutiny after 'Barber Pole' decision
By Michael Kitch
Nov 20, 2010 12:00 am

TUFTONBORO — The New Hampshire Department of Safety last week rescinded its decision declaring the Barber's Pole, the passage between Cow Island and the mainland, a "no wake zone" after representatives of Safe Boater of New Hampshire successfully challenged the legitimacy of the petition prompting the initial declaration.

State law (RSA 270:12) prescribes the procedure by which the commissioner of safety may place operating restrictions, including limits on the maximum horsepower or speed of boats, on lakes, ponds and rivers. The statute provides that at least 25 residents or property owners of each municipality bordering the water body may petition the commissioner, who after holding a public hearing may adopt rules to impose restrictions found to serve the public interest. Altogether restrictions have been imposed on more than 50 lakes and ponds, all identified in state law (RSA-270:76-132), through this process.

In May, the commissioner received a petition to impose a "no wake zone" on the so-called Barber's Pole strait. A hearing was held on July 21 and on July 30 Commissioner of Safety John Barthelmes issued an order declaring Barber's Pole, a stretch of water about twice the length of the Weirs Channel, a "no wake zone."

Many property owners on both Cow Island and the mainland were stunned and surprised by the decision, since they were not aware that a petition had been filed and a public hearing held. Noting the relatively low volume of boat traffic and number of boating mishaps, they questioned the need for a 'no wake zone," which the Marine Patrol has rejected in the past. They claimed that islanders who commute daily and weekly would be adversely affected by the "no wake zone," which one person said stretched the time to traverse the channel to 17 minutes.

Eleven residents, including Scott Verdock, the president, and Bob Flannery, the political director, of Safe Boaters of New Hampshire, appealed to reopen the hearing, claiming that the Department of Safety failed to properly notice the public hearing and the petitioners failed to qualify as either residents or property owners of Tuftonboro.

Verdonck stressed yesterday that his organization, which formed to oppose legislation setting speed limits on Lake Winnipesaukee, was neither for or against the "no wake zone." Instead, he said that his membership was troubled that interested parties were not informed that a change in the operating protocols on the lake was being contemplated and that the credentials of the petitioners were apparently not verified.

"One of our members polled 58 residents of Barber's Poll and found only two who favored a 'no wake zone,'" Verdonck said. "We took no position either way. But, changes in the use of public waters should not be done under a shroud of secrecy. All the residents should be given an opportunity to participate in the decision."

The appeal was heard on October 1. The commissioner ruled that by posting a legal notice announcing the public hearing in the N.H. Union-Leader, a newspaper circulated throughout the state, the department met its obligation to provide public notification. He noted that the notice should not only be provided to residents or property owners but to all residents of the state, which has traditionaly be done by placing a notice in a statewide newspaper.

Verdonck disagrees and has asked Representative John Hikel (R-Goffstown) to file legislation requiring the petitioners to notify all abutters of the forthcoming hearing by certified mail. The process, he said, is akin to the procedure followed by local planning boards and by the New Hampshire Department of Environmental Services when chemical herbicides are applied to treat milfoil in lakes and ponds.

However, the commissioner found that the original petitioners failed to provide adequate proof that the signatories were either legal residents or property owners of Tuftonboro. Barthelmes instructed the petitioners to provide him with the necessary documentation within 30 days. According to Verdonck, they have failed to do so.

[hazelnut]

Furthermore all of the residents in the Barbers Pole channel on Cow Island OPPOSED THE NWZ. FACT not OPINION. These are my friends and my neighbors and many of them signed the petition opposed the NWZ. FACT not OPINION Sorry TB. FYI- The number of houses that directly abut the channel on the Cow Island side are 7 total homes one vacant lot with a dock.

[Kracken]

There is one member who has been outed and proven to be deceitful.
(posting under multiple names – caught)

There is another member who has been caught in multiple lies.
(talking to dead people-caught)

There is a third member that is completely incoherent.
(We shall see prove it speeders and kayaks )

Why are we wasting our time debating with deceitful, lying and incoherent people?

[Turtle Boy]

Well VtSteve (and hn)...you won...you have driven me off the forum for good. Your angry, degrading, and intimidating replies are one thing, but having received a PM with this link below showing your collection of assault weapons and warning me I should keep quiet for my own good was the last straw. Another notch in your belt for having driven another SL supporter off the forum. A founding member of SBONH...you are looking real good. Yeah I'm sure SBONH will have a lot of clout in Concord. Maybe they'll vote for your legislation out of fear. Here's your link for anyone else who might want to challenge you.

http://www.600rr.net/gallery//browse...mageuser=42657

At least I was sent your last name and Vt Address...my family might at least might get some closure should something bad happen. SBONH is going to go a long way with people like you on board. All my best,goodbye TB

[VtSteve]

You certainly didn't receive it from me.

It amazes me how far some of you guys will go, and for what?

Number one, that's not my gallery.
Number two, I have never owned a gun on my life, ever.
Number three. I have never owned a motor cycle, and have nothing whatsoever to do with anything your twisted mind can come up with.
The fact that someone has the same screen name as I do on a motorcycle forum doesn't interest me at all. I have no interest in bikes, nor guns.

I can tell you this sir, you have a very unique problem. You've been found to be lying multiple times. You obviously don't like that.

It's a surprising thing for me to see your post, I would have though even you'd be beneath it. I was wrong.

But after seeing this link, I shouldn't be amazed at all.

http://www.ftexploring.com/askturtle...urtleboy1.html

[VtSteve]

Feel free to post my last name and address right here TB.

I must say, I don't think I've ever had the displeasure of dealing with a more dishonest and disingenuous person.

And another thing TB.

I'll personally give Don access to my PM's immediately. I can tell you this with a straight face right now, You're lying again. Only this time, you've gone too far. If you try to doctor up something and say it's from me, I will give the authorities access to my entire account, starting with Don's access first.

[Turtle Boy]

By the way, this VTSteve sounds like a bad dude. His name is Steve , he's from VT, and the internet is full of his galleries showing pictures of all his assault weapons, such as at http://www.600rr.net/gallery//browse...mageuser=42657 He's probably a much more dangerous entity than . You might want to warn TB about getting too hot with him.

Here's the PM that was shared with me...you tell me how I should feel, esp. in light of your intimidating and degrading posts. I have left out your last name, town, and whom you're more scarier than. I'd be thrilled to have you prove this VtSteve is not you, if you can, given the distress you have caused for me and my family. Given your intimidating posts I'm not sure what to believe. And I am not a prude about guns but I don't print pictures of mine on line. PS that turtle boy link is not me.

[VtSteve]

That doesn't seem like much of a PM to me TB.

So, My name is Steve and I'm from Vt?
Brilliant! Absolutely Brilliant.
Now I've figured out how I can answer that Thread How Did You Come Up With Your Screen name.


Well TB, I'm not on any bike forum, don't own any guns, have no gun galleries, no motorcycles, none of that. AND, There Was Never Any Threatening Message From Me To Anybody.

I think that's pretty clear No?

I have a very complete record of every PM I've ever sent. So bring it on.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

By the way, this VTSteve sounds like a bad dude. His name is Steve , he's from VT, and the internet is full of his galleries showing pictures of all his assault weapons, such as at http://www.600rr.net/gallery//browse...mageuser=42657 He's probably a much more dangerous entity than . You might want to warn TB about getting too hot with him.

Here's the PM that was shared with me...you tell me how I should feel, esp. in light of your intimidating and degrading posts. I have left out your last name, town, and whom you're more scarier than. I'd be thrilled to have you prove this VtSteve is not you, if you can, given the distress you have caused for me and my family. Given your intimidating posts I'm not sure what to believe. And I am not a prude about guns but I don't print pictures of mine on line. PS that turtle boy link is not me.

Who sent you the PM? It sounds like it was not Steve.

I hope Don gets to the bottom of this. This is an internet forum where sometimes tempers flare, but there should be no threatening tolerated by anyone.

[VtSteve]

Inquiring minds would love to know. Sounds to me like he's hedging a little bit.

I'll see what Don can do for me.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

By the way, this VTSteve sounds like a bad dude. His name is Steve , he's from VT, and the internet is full of his galleries showing pictures of all his assault weapons, such as at http://www.600rr.net/gallery//browse...mageuser=42657 He's probably a much more dangerous entity than . You might want to warn TB about getting too hot with him.

Here's the PM that was shared with me...you tell me how I should feel, esp. in light of your intimidating and degrading posts. I have left out your last name, town, and whom you're more scarier than. I'd be thrilled to have you prove this VtSteve is not you, if you can, given the distress you have caused for me and my family. Given your intimidating posts I'm not sure what to believe. And I am not a prude about guns but I don't print pictures of mine on line. PS that turtle boy link is not me.

Say what? Am I missing something here?

[VtSteve]

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...48&postcount=1

TB's a creative little lad isn't he?

[Turtle Boy]

I have notified Don as well. No one said you sent it but Don will indeed verify that it was sent.

[hazelnut]

Steve Don sees every single PM, he does not need permission. Apparently this little fact escaped our little Turtle friend before he started lying YET AGAIN!

This is yet another example of completely lying by Turtle boy. However here is my favorite part, Turtle Boy is now crying that we are mean and denigrating. Hmmm lets see if my memory serves me correctly. Who is the ONLY person on winnipesaukee.com to EVER harass me about my teaching abilities? Who is the ONLY person to EVER make rude and outright nasty comments about what I do and how I treat my students? I'll give you all a chance to research TB's posts. Please do so and see what a nasty, mean, completely condescending a$$ he is. Now he wants to sit here and cry that we caught him lying TWICE now!

Please do us all a favor and disappear forever, or better yet reinvent yourself as your buddy did. Come up with a new screen name and start over. You have embarrassed yourself one time too many and it is time to cut your losses and leave us alone. I am so sick of the lying and character assassinations on this site. What certain members did to Scott and now what YB is doing here is DISGUSTING. Furthermore Don I was completely pissed off that you would let TB question my job and how I do it. Now I'd love to see what this latest BS is all about.

I have chosen (at my own peril for sure) to share a TREMENDOUS amount of personal information about myself on this forum. Many know me as a teacher that has a home on Cow Island. Everyone knows where that house is as well. Fortunately many on this forum have become good friends, even some who I have disagreed with. UNFORTUNATELY only ONE person on this forum has taken this personal information and attacked me. The one and only TURTLE BOY! Now he is making up lies in an attempt to attack yet another person on this forum. This is completely and utterly disgusting behavior and not one member of this forum should be subjected to it. I am not sure about anyone else but I HAVE HAD IT!!!!!!! Enough is enough. This guy is nothing but a cancer on this forum.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Steve Don sees every single PM, he does not need permission. Apparently this little fact escaped our little Turtle friend before he started lying YET AGAIN!

This is yet another example of completely lying by Turtle boy. However here is my favorite part, Turtle Boy is now crying that we are mean and denigrating. Hmmm lets see if my memory serves me correctly. Who is the ONLY person on winnipesaukee.com to EVER harass me about my teaching abilities? Who is the ONLY person to EVER make rude and outright nasty comments about what I do and how I treat my students? I'll give you all a chance to research TB's posts. Please do so and see what a nasty, mean, completely condescending a$$ he is. Now he wants to sit here and cry that we caught him lying TWICE now!

Please do us all a favor and disappear forever, or better yet reinvent yourself as your buddy did. Come up with a new screen name and start over. You have embarrassed yourself one time too many and it is time to cut your losses and leave us alone. I am so sick of the lying and character assassinations on this site. What certain members did to Scott and now what YB is doing here is DISGUSTING. Furthermore Don I was completely pissed off that you would let TB question my job and how I do it. Now I'd love to see what this latest BS is all about.

I have chosen (at my own peril for sure) to share a TREMENDOUS amount of personal information about myself on this forum. Many know me as a teacher that has a home on Cow Island. Everyone knows where that house is as well. Fortunately many on this forum have become good friends, even some who I have disagreed with. UNFORTUNATELY only ONE person on this forum has taken this personal information and attacked me. The one and only TURTLE BOY! Now he is making up lies in an attempt to attack yet another person on this forum. This is completely and utterly disgusting behavior and not one member of this forum should be subjected to it. I am not sure about anyone else but I HAVE HAD IT!!!!!!! Enough is enough. This guy is nothing but a cancer on this forum.

Again...Don will verify what was and wasn't sent. And as far as your teaching abilities go....go back and review what the comment was in response to...you and your buddy are scary indeed. You 2 are probably the most responsible for harassing more people who have disagreed with you off the forum. One of my favorites was calling someone pond scum. I have seen eloquent posters like fat jack, frank m, evenstar and ski man hounded off the forum by you and your buddies because they disagree with you.

Now I await proof there are 2 Vt Steves...havn't seen it yet.

[VtSteve]

I'll try to be as civil as one can be, given the circumstances and developments of today being as they are.

Absolutely nobody is trying to scare anyone away from anywhere. The developments in this forum today, are a direct reflection of certain people being called out for posting lies. Before that, certain people were caught using tactics that most folks deem sneaky. Those tactics were further supported by people that seemed to have turned up missing.

I don't think it's particularly mean or nasty to point these things out, because they are patently obvious to anyone following this wonderful story. But it's one thing to disagree, or even get angry when called out. But it's yet another to accuse someone of sending messages like you inferred, and still another to post someone's gallery and claim it's mine. It's not, plain and simple. This is a simple case of professional trollers using slander and lies to stifle any conversation they don't agree with.

If you can't debate the topic, and refuse to back up your own statements, this is what you have left. Your insinuations and attacks are personal, slanderous, and pretty much indicative of what you stand for. I post my opinions in a public forum, without hiding, and for all to see. I can be wrong, I can be right. But trust me on this, I won't lie.

It's pretty ironic how you guys continue to berate and badger HN, a man who's put forth the most valid and selfless information on the thread topic overall. HN is also a guy that spent some serious time debating whether or not his own selfish reasons for agreeing with you on the NWZ overrode the public's interest. He decided it was not, and consulted and discussed it with the people he lives with on the Island. Regardless of whether I agreed with him or not, I respect how he spent personal time on the issue, and discussed it with his neighbors.

That's the way real life is supposed to work. Not sneaking around behind people's backs, lying about contacts and petitions, and even resorting to fake personal and slanderous attacks when you've been found out. It's called having character.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...48&postcount=1

TB's a creative little lad isn't he?

Sure he is! I was thinking he was starting to sound like APS!

[RANGER CANOE CO]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

By the way, this VTSteve sounds like a bad dude. His name is Steve , he's from VT, and the internet is full of his galleries showing pictures of all his assault weapons, such as at http://www.600rr.net/gallery//browse...mageuser=42657 He's probably a much more dangerous entity than . You might want to warn TB about getting too hot with him.

Here's the PM that was shared with me...you tell me how I should feel, esp. in light of your intimidating and degrading posts. I have left out your last name, town, and whom you're more scarier than. I'd be thrilled to have you prove this VtSteve is not you, if you can, given the distress you have caused for me and my family. Given your intimidating posts I'm not sure what to believe. And I am not a prude about guns but I don't print pictures of mine on line. PS that turtle boy link is not me.

Sir, as a new member, I find your accusations disturbing against another member here. It is impossible to hack into someones user name controls, to then send a PM. There are 3 members on this site with "VT" user names, 2 of them with zero posts. So,,, Post the alleged threatening PM you supposedly received, that you are so threatened and afraid of, for all to read. If you do not as per my request. Then Sir, you are not telling the truth, and you are a disservice to this web site.

[Turtle Boy]

As I said, we'll leave it to Don to verify that TB was indeed warned; any person would be disturbed to hear this and then see the link. Clearly it is in my best interests to have 2 VtSteves given the nature of the link. Again, Don can verify that said was warning was legit. In the meantime, as per this AM's LDS, I see more light has been shed on the gang of two and their accusations of lying and dishonesty. Oh wait, the person's last name is Clark...has to be related to WC. Or you would only have to change 3 letters to change Clark to Chase.

Majority of people on Barber Pole Road want a no wake zone
Nov 23, 2010 12:00 am
To the editor,

Michael Kitch’s article (Saturday, Nov. 20) concerning the no wake zone (NWZ) in the Barber Pole requires some clarification. As someone who has summered for 27 years in my parents’ cottage in this area, I am aware of three attempts since 1997 to get a NWZ in place. The area in question is the 390-feet between the buoy and Squirrel Island. This narrow and congested passage can be a logistical nightmare in the summer, given the 150-foot passage law. People in the Barber Pole recognized this and over these 13 years a majority of people from Barber Pole Rd., Squirrel and Little Birch Islands, and many people on the Cow Island passage in the Barber Pole have signed-on in favor. Incidentally, several of the Cow Islander’s who have signed-on in the past were neighbors of the person quoted in your article as being only able to find two people in favor of the NWZ. One only has to read the names of people who signed in favor of the NWZ at the hearing last July and read the letters submitted subsequently to the DOS to realize just how many people are in favor. Seventeen extra minutes to traverse the channel? My calculation using the length of the proposed area was less than two minutes!

Also keep in mind the stated objective when SBONH was formed last year was to oppose the speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee. To this end they started an online petition whereby people from all over the country and beyond were encouraged to sign because “your lake could be next”. Now Mr. Verdonck objects to the manner in which Barber Pole residents input was obtained? Furthermore, at the second hearing in October, appellants from outside the Barber Pole were allowed to testify, but no one in favor of the NWZ.

I find it compelling that the DOS would rule in favor of this NWZ, citing serious safety issues, and then reverse its ruling on a technicality. I was one such technicality in that the property that I will inherit is still in my parents’ name so I was not considered a landowner. Other names were similarly disqualified because they were spouses who did not appear on the deed etc. The statutes regarding the submission of signatures are vaguely worded and the original petitioners were told only that “25 signatures were needed”.

The area in question is indeed a safety hazard with many of its residents in favor of a NWZ. The DOS agreed. They need to do the right thing and institute this NWZ before a serious accident occurs.

C. Clark

Tuftonboro

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Majority of people on Barber Pole Road want a no wake zone
Nov 23, 2010 12:00 am
To the editor,

One only has to read the names of people who signed in favor of the NWZ at the hearing last July and read the letters submitted subsequently to the DOS to realize just how many people are in favor.

C. Clark

Tuftonboro

I can't believe this didn't make the front page....oh, that's right...that's because it's an opinion piece - where facts do not matter.

[hazelnut]

Yup that's it TB you win! You're right, this C. Clark fella knows my neighbors better than I do.

WOW! You and C. Clark must be omniscient. Please can you tell me what residents of Rattlesnake Island are thinking? Better yet how about the folks that live in Suissevale, what issues are plaguing them pray tell.
By all means don't bother reading the COW ISLAND forum where the current living property owners that live in the channel (myself included) openly discuss our opposition to a NWZ in the channel. No, no, no take Mr. C. Clark's word for it. Don't bother listening to facts where 99% of the folks that have houses in the channel vehemently oppose the NWZ INCLUDING the YMCA Camp directors. No why would you listen to that? Why would you care that at the October 1st hearing the room was filled with the disgruntled residents of Barbers Pole Road and Cow Island that were pissed off that your little sneaky friends tried to pull a fast one. Let's ignore the fact that the state squashed the ruling because none of the "names" could be verified on the original petition. Funny though the state had no problem whatsoever verifying the names on the petition to re-open the hearing. Hmmm that's odd?

You and Mr. C. Clark can go live in your land of make believe and lies.
The state researched all those names submitted to the DOS and figured out what we all knew, none of them were residents or property owners. But hey that doesn't matter to you or Mr Clark, cuz thems the facts. We all know what happen when you are confronted with facts don't we? You lash out, lie, and then cry wee wee wee all the way home when people prove you are lying.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

As I said, we'll leave it to Don to verify that TB was indeed warned; any person would be disturbed to hear this and then see the link.

Like the segment from Monday Night Football, "C'MON MAN!"

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

As I said, we'll leave it to Don to verify that TB was indeed warned; any person would be disturbed to hear this and then see the link.

Which of course, was your intent, to get people disturbed. You threw it out there with the hopes of trashing your opponent, knowing full well you and your buddies had no idea what you were talking about. Nor, did you care. It was an intentional act, like a chop block. Take the penalty, but inflict some damage. Again, lack of character. IMHO, of course.

[Skip]

For those of you that subscribe or purchase the Sunday Union Leader, you can find an editorial penned by Ed Chase regarding th Barber's Pole No-Wake issue. The letter is featured prominenetly on the main editorial page of today's paper.

Of interest is the correct prediction he makes that one of the goals of the leader of SBONH is to revoke the current speed limits on Lake Winnipesaukee.

Being showcased on the main editorial page, his letter is sure to get a great deal of exposure and hopefully will generate significant intelligent debate in reference to the concerns he airs.

Interesting letter Ed!

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by Skip

For those of you that subscribe or purchase the Sunday Union Leader, you can find an editorial penned by Ed Chase regarding th Barber's Pole No-Wake issue. The letter is featured prominenetly on the main editorial page of today's paper.

Of interest is the correct prediction he makes that one of the goals of the leader of SBONH is to revoke the current speed limits on Lake Winnipesaukee.

Being showcased on the main editorial page, his letter is sure to get a great deal of exposure and hopefully will generate significant intelligent debate in reference to the concerns he airs.

Interesting letter Ed!

What could Ed Chase say that he hasn’t already said about the Barber’s Pole NWZ, SBONH president (Active Cult Member), or Lake Winni Speed Limit, that he hasn’t already said numerous times?

I’m not saying I disagree with him, I’m just curious as to what new exciting news he could possibly have.

Here is an article that was in the Concord Monitor on November 22, 2010:

“The New Hampshire Department of Safety has reversed its earlier decision that had established a no-wake zone in the narrow and often busy Barber's Pole channel of Lake Winnipesaukee as the result of a request from a group of boaters headed by a member of a performance boating club calling itself the Active Thunder Cult.
The Department of Safety made this reversal based on a technicality raised by this boating group, despite having earlier found that without the no-wake designation, present law "does not provide adequate safety" and that "no-wake speed along this route within Lake Winnipesaukee will improve public safety; maintenance of residential, recreational and scenic values . . . and environment and water quality."
Using the moniker "Safe Boaters of New Hampshire," the group, whose founder has stated a primary mission of having Lake Winnipesaukee's boating speed limit repealed, has arranged so that most boaters may again travel full throttle through the narrow, two-way channel, even after the Department of Safety had determined that "There is not sufficient availability and practicality of enforcement" to ensure safety in the channel absent no-wake speed limitations.”
ED CHASE
http://www.concordmonitor.com/articl...1/safe-boaters

[sunset on the dock]

Can anyone print the UL letter/editorial?...I was unable to track it down on the UL site....thanks.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

Can anyone print the UL letter/editorial?...I was unable to track it down on the UL site....thanks.

I heard through the grapevine it's basically a cut and paste from every other paper he has sent it to.

Poor guy it must kill him that the residents of the area are happy with the State's decision.

Next stop USA Today and then it's off to CNN.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

Can anyone print the UL letter/editorial?...I was unable to track it down on the UL site....thanks.

This is it:


The New Hampshire Department of Safety has reversed its earlier decision that had established a no-wake zone in the narrow and often busy Barber's Pole channel of Lake Winnipesaukee as the result of a request from a group of boaters headed by a member of a performance boating club calling itself the Active Thunder Cult.

The Department of Safety made this reversal based on a technicality raised by this boating group, despite having earlier found that without the no-wake designation, present law "does not provide adequate safety" and that "no-wake speed along this route within Lake Winnipesaukee will improve public safety; maintenance of residential, recreational and scenic values . . . and environment and water quality."

Using the moniker "Safe Boaters of New Hampshire," the group, whose founder has stated a primary mission of having Lake Winnipesaukee's boating speed limit repealed, has arranged so that most boaters may again travel full throttle through the narrow, two-way channel, even after the Department of Safety had determined that "There is not sufficient availability and practicality of enforcement" to ensure safety in the channel absent no-wake speed limitations.

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

Number two, I have never owned a gun on my life, ever.
Number three. I have never owned a motor cycle

Damn, and I was just beginning to like you!!

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

I've never in my life read bigger LIES in a post. This entire post is a lie. The former owner of my house is dead. So unless you dug him up and used your hand to guide his signature you are telling lies.

A quick call to one who was involved reveals 5 of HN's neighbors who signed a petition during a previous attempt for the NWZ. I sent their names to him by PM...not sure if any of these 5 were the previous owners of his house. Dead people can indeed not sign but they can sign while alive and then be allowed to die. Interesting article today. Seventeen minutes to pass through the 1200' or so proposed NWZ? I could swim it faster than that! HN found only 2 people pro NWZ? Perhaps he needs to read the testimony of the many people who sent their opinions after the July hearing which include their locations as well. Also read the names of people of the BP who signed in as pro NWZ in July. What a joke....two people in favor of the NWZ. And you talk of slimy people in their caves. "I see your true colors shining through" to use your previous Cyndi Lauper quote.

[Seaplane Pilot]

TB,

Since we are referencing music (your reference to Cyndi Lauper), here's one for you and your friends at WINFABS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__VQX2Xn7tI

It has such a nice ring to it. I think it should be the SOBNH theme song!

Take it to the bank.

SP

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

A quick call to one who was involved reveals 5 of HN's neighbors who signed a petition during a previous attempt for the NWZ. I sent their names to him by PM...not sure if any of these 5 were the previous owners of his house. Dead people can indeed not sign but they can sign while alive and then be allowed to die. Interesting article today. Seventeen minutes to pass through the 1200' or so proposed NWZ? I could swim it faster than that! HN found only 2 people pro NWZ? Perhaps he needs to read the testimony of the many people who sent their opinions after the July hearing which include their locations as well. Also read the names of people of the BP who signed in as pro NWZ in July. What a joke....two people in favor of the NWZ. And you talk of slimy people in their caves. "I see your true colors shining through" to use your previous Cyndi Lauper quote.

So 1 call to some unknown informant illicits the "fact" that there were or are 5 "neighbors" of HN who were in favor of the NWZ? And just how do you have access to this petition? This is nonsense.

Furthermore, please do not take offense of no one believes you that "many people" sent their opinions after the hearing...unless you provide some proof. Remember tourists and non-residents do not count.

While I am at it, what is your opinion of how the BP NWZ was enacted? From your responses in this thread you apparently have no problem with the FACT that the people who SIGNED the petition were just visiting, do not own property and are not residents of the Town of Tuftonboro. Are you are OK with the FACT that it was snuck through the system in an underhanded way?

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by Yankee

So 1 call to some unknown informant illicits the "fact" that there were or are 5 "neighbors" of HN who were in favor of the NWZ? And just how do you have access to this petition? This is nonsense.

Let's hear from HN. I suspect he is calling these 5 neighbors and may be surprised at what he hears. It's nice to see his lies exposed.
And did VtSteve just mention Nashua? Yeah thats a long way from the lake...but not as far as the SBONH signatures from all over the country and China. My favorites were Erica Blizzard's and Jimmy Hoffa's. Yup, signatures from all over the country...that's real honesty for you. Only two people in favor of the NWZ? This story gets better and better.
BTW, these 2 letters in the LDS this week go a long way at shining some sunlight into your cave. Will there be more? I would bet that in the not too distant future, SBONH's "friends"...Forsythe, Boutin, Hickel...will drop SBONH like a hot potato.

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Let's hear from HN.

No, let's hear it from you. I directly asked you the question. You are the one you are the one who's claiming it to be true, yet tell us nothing in anyway to substantiate it.

Again, what is your opinion of how the BP NWZ was enacted?

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Let's hear from HN. I suspect he is calling these 5 neighbors and may be surprised at what he hears. It's nice to see his lies exposed.
And did VtSteve just mention Nashua? Yeah thats a long way from the lake...but not as far as the SBONH signatures from all over the country and China. My favorites were Erica Blizzard's and Jimmy Hoffa's. Yup, signatures from all over the country...that's real honesty for you. Only two people in favor of the NWZ? This story gets better and better.
BTW, these 2 letters in the LDS this week go a long way at shining some sunlight into your cave. Will there be more? I would bet that in the not too distant future, SBONH's "friends"...Forsythe, Boutin, Hickel...will drop SBONH like a hot potato.

This is AWESOME! Yes TB did PM me and get this, the 5 people he mentions are either DEAD or have since sold, one he mentions is JTA in this thread (maybe the other BP thread) go check out his post. So TB how's it feel to have egg on your face? Remember I live there TB they ARE my friends my CLOSE friends and yes they ARE opposed to a NWZ. Nice try though. I'm done talking to you on this subject as all you do is lie and now that everybody has concrete proof I'll let you climb back into your shell and hang on to whatever dignity you have left.

Here is how it breaks down, TB referenced 5 property owners
#1 is dead I own that house now
#2 sold and the lot was divided into two lots BOTH signed AGAINST NWZ
#3 Is a poster in this thread JTA go read his position where he says NO NWZ is needed.
#4 Sold and moved to a Condo in Gilford new owner is against NWZ
#5 has not been to the island in 8-10 years.

hahahahaha No phone call needed buddy but your records are WAY out of date. Maybe those folks supported a NWZ back in the day but most of them are long gone from Cow Island.

Good try but once again you only show..

"You with the sad eyes
don't be discouraged
oh I realize
it's hard to take courage
in a world full of people
you can lose sight of it all
and the darkness inside you
can make you fell so small

But I see your true colors
shining through
I see your true colors
and that's why I love you
so don't be afraid to let them show
your true colors
true colors are beautiful
like a rainbow "

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

A quick call to one who was involved reveals 5 of HN's neighbors who signed a petition during a previous attempt for the NWZ.

Exactly as I said...5 of your neighbors were in favor of a NWZ. Not quite so black and white as you might lead one to believe. And how about people on the small islands and mainland. Two people in favor of a NWZ? ha ha ha ha .
Then again, aren't you the one who went to bars and arcades and was not able to find a single person in favor of the SL? Your abilities for deception and lies know no bounds. You have no shame. True colors indeed.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Exactly as I said...5 of your neighbors were in favor of a NWZ. Not quite so black and white as you might lead one to believe. And how about people on the small islands and mainland. Two people in favor of a NWZ? ha ha ha ha .
Then again, aren't you the one who went to bars and arcades and was not able to find a single person in favor of the SL? Your abilities for deception and lies know no bounds. You have no shame. True colors indeed.

Nice try with the misdirection but... You look foolish. Our petition has 98% of the abutters signing AGAINST the NWZ. The CURRENT proposal. I am so done engaging a person who out and out lies and then can not apologize when he is caught lying. It is BLACK AND WHITE 100% Black and white. The CURRENT property owners in the Barbers Pole channel overwhelmingly DO NOT support a NWZ in the area. What is so hard for you to comprehend? So you want to reference dead people and former property owners in your argument? Ok...

[Yankee]

I see dead people and others who no longer live here...they demand a no wake zone at the Barber Pole channel.

[VtSteve]

So whats ya gonna do now TB? Punt? Call the other two and have a consult?

It doesn't sound to me like HN was surprised by what he heard. It sounds to me like you've dished out some bald-faced lies, just like you and yours did during the SL debate. I'm beginning to wonder if any three people could possibly be so dishonest in real life? Only paid lobbyists that I know of can do this with a straight face.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

So whats ya gonna do now TB? Punt? Call the other two and have a consult?

It doesn't sound to me like HN was surprised by what he heard. It sounds to me like you've dished out some bald-faced lies, just like you and yours did during the SL debate. I'm beginning to wonder if any three people could possibly be so dishonest in real life? Only paid lobbyists that I know of can do this with a straight face.

Not surprised at all. All of us Islanders are a very close knit bunch. We have campfires at each others houses. We share resources, the very nature of living on an island dictates we do so. We spend a considerable amount of time together. We are all very close, this is not your average "neighbor I only see and wave at once in a while." Mainland folk would be surprised just how close island neighbors are with each other. So while TB who lives on the other side of the lake pretends he knows my neighbors better than me, we can all laugh at him. The reality is that on the island we spend a substantial amount of time at each others houses. We all walk through each others properties to go visit other neighbors. Rarely can you make it through a neighbors property without being invited in for a chat or a snack or drink. It is a completely different way of life. I love it and it has been amazing. With that said we all have spent a considerable amount of time this summer discussing the pro's and con's of this NWZ. While we all agreed that there would be many, MANY benefits to this proposed NWZ we as a group wholeheartedly agreed that the negatives outweighed the positives. We also were all disgusted by the process with which this was enacted. It was in our collective opinion that we could not support a law like this that had absolutely no basis with regard to safety. There is and was no safety issue. It was merely going to be a self serving initiative and we all agreed that we couldn't support it. Now let me tell you that this is pretty amazing due to the varied political viewpoints my neighbors and I have. One of my neighbors is a supporter of the SL. I still love the guy. While we agree to disagree on that one we have shared many a campfire and we have discussed our completely different perspectives on all things politics, the one thing we both agree on is that this NWZ proposal was a joke and is not necessary.
We are all happy to see that the process has worked for once. We owe a great debt of gratitude to all that came out and especially SBONH for their support.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

I've never in my life read bigger LIES in a post. This entire post is a lie. The former owner of my house is dead. So unless you dug him up and used your hand to guide his signature you are telling lies.

And there it is again, yet another in a long series of lies (hence the term Pathalogical), from Turtle Boy himself.

Him and his gang of three must have a fairly weak case (obviously), to have to resort to lies all of the time. Somehow, they got a group of renters on an island to sign petitions in the dark of night, and sneak it on through.

The very same way they were pretty slick in getting signatures from Nashua and on up for a lake speed limit non boaters knew nothing about. They were so fearful of the truth, that they got the legislature to make the SL permanent before any facts or figures could be released. Wonder why that was?

I sincerely hope that those that don;t particularly like this form of "discussion", at least read through these threads. Perhaps after all this time, you can better judge what the uproar was really about.

Don't forget, this is not a dead issue. TB and his gang, like Ed/BIM/Warren will make sure that they continue to fabricate stories for each and every new law they want. So while the lake was sheer pleasure this year and last (except in the BP area), it might just be a hazard where anything goes according to this group tomorrow, or next May.

Wait until they start pushing for a special Lake Winnipesaukee Association patrol. One that adheres to the wishes of people that let them in power. Trust me, it's been done before elsewhere. Anyone that trusts any of these people is not rational.

And to TB. You've told more lies on this forum than anyone I've ever even heard of, much less witnessed. But what the heck, this is the internet, and you can say whatever. But the rantings of the little gang of friends across from BI go way beyond speed limits and a NWZ. These people are absolutely nuts about lots of things.

As for your latest rant? Don't forget, HN stated many times a NWZ was good for him personally. I know you've never commented to him on that, because to do so, would be civil.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

Regarding ALL the discussion that's been had in this thread and the two letters to the editor posted here, how can the BP NWZ not be wide enough for two boats to pass each other while maintaining the minimum 150' between both crafts and shore? Using Google Earth, I measured the width of that area; the minimum width I found, shore to shore, was 825 ft while other areas were greater than 900 ft. Two boats passing each other would need an absolute minimum of 450' to allow for distances between themselves and shore on either side. Even if you allow 500', that STILL leaves 300'+ to maintain distance from other boats and shore. What am I missing when so many people are saying it's too narrow?!?!?

Nobody from SBONH-NHRBA will advise this BP visitor?

Originally Posted by gtagrip

Why is it that all are in agreement with what SBONH exposed this scam except 3 or 4 people in this forum. They tried to sneak a NWZ through the process and got called on it. I guess it's only the sneaks in this forum that are upset about it.

1) As I am scarcely benefited by the NWZ—and had nothing to do with it in any of its four proposals—please leave out the insinuation that ApS is part of this proposal.

2) However, having lingered at the BP in a small boat, I can now readily support BP residents regarding this "Visitor-Abuse" issue.

3) BTW: Who will go "on record", saying:

"There will NEVER be a NWZ at Barber Pole!"

[Yankee]

Once again I have tried and failed to translate Acre Per Second's parsi. Can anyone help me to understand what the he11 he is talking about?

[hazelnut]

I'll tell ya what, I will let you in on a little secret:

http://www.quicktopic.com/18/H/2DcQnXwaD2qL

Knock yourself out TB and read that. It's the COW ISLAND FORUM. Yup that's the place where MY NEIGHBORS and I discuss all things Cow Island. All those folks posting on there are the real LIVING residents and current property owners. You'll have to dig through all the day to day minutia of Island life (forum is not threaded) but the discussion about the NWZ is in there.

Enjoy the reading.

[VtSteve]

It sounds like some very real constraints are needed for the Sophie C.

It also sounds like we need a version of Snopes.com dedicated to debunking the posts of the usual gang. If TB tells me it's a sunny day, I'm Still going to look outside and see for myself

From Hazelnut

Our petition has 98% of the abutters signing AGAINST the NWZ

Keep your guard up. TB and the boys will be trying to get petitions signed in Nashua and Manchester again.

"Boats as large as 200' pass through a narrow passage at speeds up to 400 mph. Do you agree that this area, where you can reach across the channel and shake hands with island people, should be a NWZ."

In another petition;

"The lake was as wonderful as it had been when the Indians paddled their canoes 400 years ago (except the BP area, where boats go faster than the speed of light). Do you agree that all boats should, by law, go no faster than 6 mph on Lake Winnipesaukee? The speed limit passed should be made permanent, before any of you know what the outcome is."

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

I'll tell ya what, I will let you in on a little secret:

http://www.quicktopic.com/18/H/2DcQnXwaD2qL

Knock yourself out TB and read that. It's the COW ISLAND FORUM. Yup that's the place where MY NEIGHBORS and I discuss all things Cow Island. All those folks posting on there are the real LIVING residents and current property owners. You'll have to dig through all the day to day minutia of Island life (forum is not threaded) but the discussion about the NWZ is in there.

Enjoy the reading.

And click the attachment on post #70 of this thread(knock yourself out HN) if you want to hear from some other islanders and mainland residents who live on the BP (didn't hear from any renters though). Your neighbors on Squirrel and Little Birch must love you...nothing like neighborly relations.

[VtSteve]

Those comments were discussed in depth earlier on TB. I think it's been pointed out that it's very hard to talk to the neighbors on squirrel.

Since you don't care to discuss your earlier "revelations", we can only assume most of what you guys come up with is a steaming pile. You've been proven to be "somewhat" disingenuous? Hazelnut seems to be pretty current, and quite active in the real world there. Thank goodness there are still people left that actually care about the truth. You do not appear to be one of them TB, and now everyone knows that.

But please, continue to tell us stories about all of your friends in the BP area, maybe we could do something about the Sophie C while we're at it.