Tamarack Labor Problems

chipj29 · 04-01-2005, 09:13 AM

I am a reformed manager of one of the national chain restaurants who shall remain nameless. I say reformed because I got out of the biz. Anyway, our company policy was that we could only hire age 18 and over. Part of that reason was because we served alcohol. The other part was because of what is being discussed here. It is just too difficult to manage. Like Pepper said, it is difficult enough to manage the restaurant and give our customers the best service possible. Throw some intense clock management on top of that and it gets even worse. We did have many many "kids" under 18 apply for jobs with us, and our standard answer was come back when you are 18. No matter what their experiences were, we just couldn't do it. And in a lot of cases we lost out on what could have been very productive employees.

With all that said, I now work M-F, "normal" hours, and 8 years later I still miss the business. I may make a stab at opening my own someday, but that I am still unsure of. Good luck to Pepper, Samiam and the other restaurant owners and managers. It is hard work but I know it is very very rewarding!

phoenix · 04-01-2005, 09:42 AM

the shame here is the law which was suppose to protect children from work abuse is actually hurting their chances to get a part time job. We are hiring foreign students vs. local. I don't think that the problem is owners not taking a chance it is the inflexibility of the law. Maybe that should change

Rattlesnake Gal · 04-01-2005, 09:59 AM

Perhaps someone can invent a time clock with alarms or beepers of some kind for the young workers.
They are a great resource and it is a shame they are being phased out.
(Way back when, my boss was in violation too!

Glad for both of us she didn’t get caught!)

Emeljee99 · 04-01-2005, 12:36 PM

Hi folks,

I've been a member for a long time, but have been away from the boards for a while!

Am I right in believing the majority of these rules are only in effect during school? This doesn't effect summer help (school vacation) does it?

SAMIAM · 04-03-2005, 09:26 AM

One of my line cooks has been with me for 20 years.He is an excellent employee and asked me if I'd hire his 16 year old son and he'd train him on Saturdays.This was pre DOL and of course I said yes and he turned out to be a enthusiastic and very competent kid.We love him.
His dad starts work at 6am and his son wouls start at 7am,but to save gas ,they started riding together and the son would hang out until starting time.Several times without my knowledge,we had a little breakfast rush and the son signed in a few minutes early...around 6:45 to help his dad. Bingo...the evil Samiam abused another innocent worker...his early starts cost me around $2,500 of the total $7,500 fine.Kids under 18 can't start work before 7am even on weekends....and yes ITD...I am aware of that law.
In my 30 years in business I've always hired sons and daughters of employees.You should see the stars in their eyes when they get their first check.....That little cocky swagger when they learn their job to the point that older employees treat them with respect. Scores of my kids bought theire first car from savings gained by working.My night manager started with me when he was 13......the son of my day manager.......her daughter works for me too....and I don't see this happening again and it makes me very angry and very sad.
Sorry about rambling.......maybe later I'll share the story of my audit by the DOL

Paugus Bay Resident · 04-03-2005, 10:42 AM

It's been interesting to see the "other side" of the story. Something most of us we're probably unaware of.

BroadHopper · 04-04-2005, 12:33 PM

I guess I was lucky. I was in the construction trade from 14 till about 28 years old. I always work 60, 70 hours a week. If I had not done so I will not be able to afford college. I think in part I have learn the value of work and hard-earned money. Something the newer generation lacks.

tricia1218 · 04-05-2005, 01:24 PM

As a teenager I worked at a local lake business, the owners where not the least bit concerned with scheduling teenagers 8+ hours a day or even allowing breaks. Only until I worked a job at home in MA, was I made aware of the breaks and lunches being mandatory.

Cheffy · 05-19-2005, 10:24 AM

Although I myself am not in the habit of hiring below the age of 16...I usually have one or two staff that are 15. I do this, because it is a great age to introduce newcomers to the buisness, get aquanted with their parents, and start good work habits. It is sometimes inconvienent I must admit to let someone go early in the night.....but I try to use them at times when maybe I just need an extra for a few hours, so it doesn't present a huge burden for the rest of the staff when they leave.

A quick tip for all of you out there that need to be sure your staff punches out at the right time.....$4.99 at brooks, a cheap alarm clock...set it and forget it. Give yourself a 5 minute warning to the 9 o'clock rule, make sure it reflects the same time you have on your time clock system.....and it should help you stay in compliance.

The state also gives some room for error, when they see that you are a responsible employer, and take good measure to stay compliant. If your faced with an infraction, show the the inspector a posting on the wall that has signatures from all your staff that they understand the child labor law...show them the alarm clock with the 5 minute head start....and hey, if you notice once in a while that you did infact go over your time....make a note of it in the employee file, or directly on the time card, of why. Maybe the alarm clock didn't get reset after a power failure...or the staff member left on time, but forgot to punch out....Or the staff member was doing an outside chore, or was involved with changing out of uniform ect.....

while these may all be excuses, at least you took the time to note them, and if you took the time to note them, the state will also believe that you took action to make sure it didn't happen again in that senario.

While it may not buy you a get out of jail free card....it may be just enough to show your intent to be a responsible employer, and that you "want" to follow the law....verses the common argument which is "it's to hard" or "inconvienent" to follow the law.

SAMIAM · 05-19-2005, 05:34 PM

Cheffy..please refer to post #3 on this thread....The state has no mercy.....

Cheffy · 05-20-2005, 12:40 AM

Samiam, perhaps I just haven't had to deal with it for some time now, and thats why I remain the optimist lol. I did however face fines at a previous work place, in the $13,000.00 range (this is about 9 yrs ago), part of the infractions were prior to me being manager, and a few after I became manager....but the few little systems I had put in place to identify time issues and resolve them, bought me a freebie. Perhaps the inspector had just had a good day and wanted to show some mercy lol? who knows. But I wish everyone well in this department, it is unfortunate if the state takes a position of enforcement that is unreasonable. It really is unreasonable when you compare it to the court blotter in the citizen, "so and so was sentanced to 5 years in jail, with all but 30 days suspended, and recieved a $2500.00 fine with all but $200 suspended....." Makes me sick, and these people are the ones actually COMMITTING crimes!

Before you know it, there will be snow on the ground again....so if nothing sparks my interest in posting, I wish you all a great a prosperous summer, and happy eating to all of you that are generous enough to to support our various establishments!

04-04-2005, 12:33 PM	#7
BroadHopper Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 5,589 Thanks: 3,230 Thanked 1,107 Times in 797 Posts	Child labor laws I guess I was lucky. I was in the construction trade from 14 till about 28 years old. I always work 60, 70 hours a week. If I had not done so I will not be able to afford college. I think in part I have learn the value of work and hard-earned money. Something the newer generation lacks. __________________ Someday may never be an actual day.

05-19-2005, 10:24 AM	#9
Cheffy Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Young workers Although I myself am not in the habit of hiring below the age of 16...I usually have one or two staff that are 15. I do this, because it is a great age to introduce newcomers to the buisness, get aquanted with their parents, and start good work habits. It is sometimes inconvienent I must admit to let someone go early in the night.....but I try to use them at times when maybe I just need an extra for a few hours, so it doesn't present a huge burden for the rest of the staff when they leave. A quick tip for all of you out there that need to be sure your staff punches out at the right time.....$4.99 at brooks, a cheap alarm clock...set it and forget it. Give yourself a 5 minute warning to the 9 o'clock rule, make sure it reflects the same time you have on your time clock system.....and it should help you stay in compliance. The state also gives some room for error, when they see that you are a responsible employer, and take good measure to stay compliant. If your faced with an infraction, show the the inspector a posting on the wall that has signatures from all your staff that they understand the child labor law...show them the alarm clock with the 5 minute head start....and hey, if you notice once in a while that you did infact go over your time....make a note of it in the employee file, or directly on the time card, of why. Maybe the alarm clock didn't get reset after a power failure...or the staff member left on time, but forgot to punch out....Or the staff member was doing an outside chore, or was involved with changing out of uniform ect..... while these may all be excuses, at least you took the time to note them, and if you took the time to note them, the state will also believe that you took action to make sure it didn't happen again in that senario. While it may not buy you a get out of jail free card....it may be just enough to show your intent to be a responsible employer, and that you "want" to follow the law....verses the common argument which is "it's to hard" or "inconvienent" to follow the law.

05-20-2005, 12:40 AM	#11
Cheffy Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	compliance Samiam, perhaps I just haven't had to deal with it for some time now, and thats why I remain the optimist lol. I did however face fines at a previous work place, in the $13,000.00 range (this is about 9 yrs ago), part of the infractions were prior to me being manager, and a few after I became manager....but the few little systems I had put in place to identify time issues and resolve them, bought me a freebie. Perhaps the inspector had just had a good day and wanted to show some mercy lol? who knows. But I wish everyone well in this department, it is unfortunate if the state takes a position of enforcement that is unreasonable. It really is unreasonable when you compare it to the court blotter in the citizen, "so and so was sentanced to 5 years in jail, with all but 30 days suspended, and recieved a $2500.00 fine with all but $200 suspended....." Makes me sick, and these people are the ones actually COMMITTING crimes! Before you know it, there will be snow on the ground again....so if nothing sparks my interest in posting, I wish you all a great a prosperous summer, and happy eating to all of you that are generous enough to to support our various establishments!

04-01-2005, 09:13 AM	#1
chipj29 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bow Posts: 1,874 Thanks: 521 Thanked 308 Times in 162 Posts	I am a reformed manager of one of the national chain restaurants who shall remain nameless. I say reformed because I got out of the biz. Anyway, our company policy was that we could only hire age 18 and over. Part of that reason was because we served alcohol. The other part was because of what is being discussed here. It is just too difficult to manage. Like Pepper said, it is difficult enough to manage the restaurant and give our customers the best service possible. Throw some intense clock management on top of that and it gets even worse. We did have many many "kids" under 18 apply for jobs with us, and our standard answer was come back when you are 18. No matter what their experiences were, we just couldn't do it. And in a lot of cases we lost out on what could have been very productive employees. With all that said, I now work M-F, "normal" hours, and 8 years later I still miss the business. I may make a stab at opening my own someday, but that I am still unsure of. Good luck to Pepper, Samiam and the other restaurant owners and managers. It is hard work but I know it is very very rewarding!

04-01-2005, 09:42 AM	#2
phoenix Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: phoenix and moultonboro Posts: 1,557 Thanks: 61 Thanked 276 Times in 194 Posts	the shame here is the law which was suppose to protect children from work abuse is actually hurting their chances to get a part time job. We are hiring foreign students vs. local. I don't think that the problem is owners not taking a chance it is the inflexibility of the law. Maybe that should change

04-01-2005, 09:59 AM	#3
Rattlesnake Gal Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Central NH Posts: 5,252 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 1,451 Thanked 1,349 Times in 475 Posts	Perhaps someone can invent a time clock with alarms or beepers of some kind for the young workers. They are a great resource and it is a shame they are being phased out. (Way back when, my boss was in violation too! Glad for both of us she didn’t get caught!)

04-01-2005, 12:36 PM	#4
Emeljee99 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi folks, I've been a member for a long time, but have been away from the boards for a while! Am I right in believing the majority of these rules are only in effect during school? This doesn't effect summer help (school vacation) does it?

04-03-2005, 09:26 AM	#5
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,909 Thanks: 337 Thanked 1,686 Times in 592 Posts	One of my line cooks has been with me for 20 years.He is an excellent employee and asked me if I'd hire his 16 year old son and he'd train him on Saturdays.This was pre DOL and of course I said yes and he turned out to be a enthusiastic and very competent kid.We love him. His dad starts work at 6am and his son wouls start at 7am,but to save gas ,they started riding together and the son would hang out until starting time.Several times without my knowledge,we had a little breakfast rush and the son signed in a few minutes early...around 6:45 to help his dad. Bingo...the evil Samiam abused another innocent worker...his early starts cost me around $2,500 of the total $7,500 fine.Kids under 18 can't start work before 7am even on weekends....and yes ITD...I am aware of that law. In my 30 years in business I've always hired sons and daughters of employees.You should see the stars in their eyes when they get their first check.....That little cocky swagger when they learn their job to the point that older employees treat them with respect. Scores of my kids bought theire first car from savings gained by working.My night manager started with me when he was 13......the son of my day manager.......her daughter works for me too....and I don't see this happening again and it makes me very angry and very sad. Sorry about rambling.......maybe later I'll share the story of my audit by the DOL

04-03-2005, 10:42 AM	#6
Paugus Bay Resident Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Gilmanton, NH Posts: 754 Thanks: 136 Thanked 93 Times in 51 Posts	It's been interesting to see the "other side" of the story. Something most of us we're probably unaware of.

04-05-2005, 01:24 PM	#8
tricia1218 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: MA/Paugus Bay Posts: 155 Thanks: 31 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	As a teenager I worked at a local lake business, the owners where not the least bit concerned with scheduling teenagers 8+ hours a day or even allowing breaks. Only until I worked a job at home in MA, was I made aware of the breaks and lunches being mandatory.

05-19-2005, 05:34 PM	#10
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,909 Thanks: 337 Thanked 1,686 Times in 592 Posts	Cheffy..please refer to post #3 on this thread....The state has no mercy.....