more expert testimony on SB-27

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I'm a member and I don't have a fast boat. I bet I'm in the majority in that regard within SBONH.

To a casual observer, the SBONH's preliminary efforts just seemed like window dressing that was a lead-up to their #1 true intent of repealing the boat speed limits.

[Woodsy]

Why can there not be any COMPROMISE?? Its like the western front in WWI... Both sides seem dug in and unwilling to budge!

I have no problem with a nighttime limit because thats when ALL of the accidents cited by WINNFABS have occured!

I have a problem with a daytime limit because there is ABSOLUTELY NO DATA WHATSOEVER to show that its necessary! No accidents! No anything! Just anecdotal stories about how the guy went by me too close and too fast! We all have stories like that! Because I like to putt around the lake, I have stories like that involving every kind of boat!

We need to find a compromise that we can all live with so we can put this issue to rest once and for all! The divisiveness on the lake is acidic!

Woodsy

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Why can there not be any COMPROMISE?? Its like the western front in WWI... Both sides seem dug in and unwilling to budge!

I have no problem with a nighttime limit because thats when ALL of the accidents cited by WINNFABS have occured!

I have a problem with a daytime limit because there is ABSOLUTELY NO DATA WHATSOEVER to show that its necessary! No accidents! No anything! Just anecdotal stories about how the guy went by me too close and too fast! We all have stories like that! Because I like to putt around the lake, I have stories like that involving every kind of boat!

We need to find a compromise that we can all live with so we can put this issue to rest once and for all! The divisiveness on the lake is acidic!

Woodsy

Woodsy, my guess is that without a compromise the SL debate and future bills we keep coming up if the isn't compromise. I give credit to the SL propoents in getting it too pass as I'm surprised that a compromise wasn't demanded by the legislature. However, the opposition will continue to be fierce with the current law IMO so compromise now or with a different legislator the results could be drastically different later.

I don't have a dog in the fight for night time limits. As far as day limits, I simply look at the 150 ft rule as already being very agressive. 150 ft is a long way and I encourage anyone to go measure it out on their property and see how far away it is.

I've said it over and over, the speed limit itself won't make any difference on the lake except for a dozen or so who happen to get tickets. Making everyday bowriders into lawbreakers doesn't sit well with me.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Why can there not be any COMPROMISE?? Its like the western front in WWI... Both sides seem dug in and unwilling to budge.
Woodsy

Lake Winnipesaukee already has a no-limit speed zone.....and it is named Lake Winnisquam......go figure?

The waters of Lake Winnipesaukee run downstream for about two miles and pour into Lake Winnisquam. Lake Winnisquam is the state's third largest lake and has a lot fewer rocks than Winnipesaukee for boaters to tear up their props. Winnisquam has a no-fee, free to anyone, state boat launch facility complete with a double launch ramp, a big dock, parking for vehicle and trailer, and a toilet. All paid with money from boat registrations, and free to use by anyone. Lake Winnipesaukee does not have a similar state boat launch. It used to have Ames Farm Inn for a popular boat launch, day use spot, but not anymore.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Lake Winnipesaukee already has a no-limit speed zone.....and it is named Lake Winnisquam......go figure?

So maybe this shows that people are more prudent and want to go faster on the states LARGEST lake. Just sayin'

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I eagerly joined SBONH but was never interested in having any involvement with NHRBA. In hindsight, I think I chose well...

NHRBA had two years of safe-boating before "hindsight" went from zero to national headlines.

SBONH has less than one year from which any "hindsight" can be determined.

The Lake holds its breath.

__________________

[fatlazyless]

Today's February 18 www.laconiadailysun.com has a page 5 letter to the editor from the N H Camp Director's Association that strongly supports the 45/30 speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee and is a well written and intelligent letter.

The local newspapers have had quite a number of speed limits letters of late from a variety of people.

I know that Massachusetts has a state-wide boat speed limit of either 40 or 45, but here in NH the speed limit has been a lake-by-lake decision driven by local people. So, if Lake Winnisquam, the state's 3rd largest lake, wants a speed limit similar to Squam or Winnipesaukee, it would have to be locally putt-putt-putted.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Today's February 18 www.laconiadailysun.com has a page 5 letter to the editor from the N H Camp Director's Association that strongly supports the 45/30 speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee and is a well written and intelligent letter.

The local newspapers have had quite a number of speed limits letters of late from a variety of people.

I know that Massachusetts has a state-wide boat speed limit of either 40 or 45, but here in NH the speed limit has been a lake-by-lake decision driven by local people. So, if Lake Winnisquam, the state's 3rd largest lake, wants a speed limit similar to Squam or Winnipesaukee, it would have to be locally putt-putt-putted.

Well written and intelligent? I beg to differ. "Our camps are protective cocoons for their positive skills, experiences and memories." Really? Is it beneficial to keep kids in cocoons instead of letting them experience the real world in a positive light. These camps are using scare tactics to promote support for the speed limit - nothing more. The kids are pawns and the camps should be ashamed for disseminating such trash. Keep digging the hole...you'll soon be to China.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Well written and intelligent? I beg to differ. "Our camps are protective cocoons for their positive skills, experiences and memories." Really? Is it beneficial to keep kids in cocoons instead of letting them experience the real world in a positive light. These camps are using scare tactics to promote support for the speed limit - nothing more. The kids are pawns and the camps should be ashamed for disseminating such trash. Keep digging the hole...you'll soon be to China.

The New Hampshire Camp Directors Association represents 180 camps in the state. They voted unanimously to support speed limits, but what do they know.

You take one comment out of context and criticize it. They use their campers as "pawns" and "camps should be ashamed for disseminating such trash". Then in the next post you wonder why speed limit supporters are unwilling to talk compromise.

Funny how you never want to talk compromise when you think you have the votes in the legislature.

Tell me again why these camp directors don't have a clue? One would think they are fairly knowledgeable about safety, boating, the environment etc..

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

The New Hampshire Camp Directors Association represents 180 camps in the state. They voted unanimously to support speed limits, but what do they know.
....
Tell me again why these camp directors don't have a clue? One would think they are fairly knowledgeable about safety, boating, the environment etc..

That's 180 camps in NH, not on Winnipesaukee. I'm also curious how many of those camps aren't even on water. My daughter spent a couple summers at horse camps and the only water was swimming pools. So let's agree that number is not germaine to the issues at hand with a Lake Winnipesaukee speed limit.

How many active summer camps are on Winnipesaukee? The obvious one's I know of. The camp directors are using a blanket statement so what applies to one lake doesn't apply to another.
Most activities I see from the camps are very near where the camps are located which makes sense for safety. The stay close to the camps not because of boats but to allow for greater supervision. Period.

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

The New Hampshire Camp Directors Association represents 180 camps in the state. They voted unanimously to support speed limits, but what do they know.

You take one comment out of context and criticize it. They use their campers as "pawns" and "camps should be ashamed for disseminating such trash". Then in the next post you wonder why speed limit supporters are unwilling to talk compromise.

Funny how you never want to talk compromise when you think you have the votes in the legislature.

Tell me again why these camp directors don't have a clue? One would think they are fairly knowledgeable about safety, boating, the environment etc..

Ironic that YOU are complaining about someone taking comments out of context. It is your trademark to do such. You invariably attempt to spin your way around a debate by using the same lame and transparent tactic. You infer that it's a fact that 180 camp directors know what's best for the boating public on Winni then complain that somone else takes a comment or fact out of context and posts it to support their argument?



Your agenda is really becoming transparent.

[lawn psycho]

Yankee, what is disgusting is how BI and other SL supporters are willing to distort and mislead to obtain their objective. We should get collections of signatures at the sand bars and popular swimming holes to start taking back the lake!

I have a good way to combat this but will reveal it only after the testimony is completed.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

The New Hampshire Camp Directors Association represents 180 camps in the state. They voted unanimously to support speed limits, but what do they know.

You take one comment out of context and criticize it. They use their campers as "pawns" and "camps should be ashamed for disseminating such trash". Then in the next post you wonder why speed limit supporters are unwilling to talk compromise.

Funny how you never want to talk compromise when you think you have the votes in the legislature.

Tell me again why these camp directors don't have a clue? One would think they are fairly knowledgeable about safety, boating, the environment etc..

A typical knee-jerk reaction: "Comments taken out of context". I'm all for compromise but you guys want it your way and only your way. This lake is big enough for everyone to enjoy as they wish, but the camps, kayakers, sailboaters and other bands of elitists have pushed this way over the edge - again, under the auspices of "safety". That's the biggest red herring I've ever seen.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

A typical knee-jerk reaction: "Comments taken out of context". I'm all for compromise but you guys want it your way and only your way. This lake is big enough for everyone to enjoy as they wish, but the camps, kayakers, sailboaters and other bands of elitists have pushed this way over the edge - again, under the auspices of "safety". That's the biggest red herring I've ever seen.

I have been pushing for a compromise for years. That was back when the watchword on the anti-SL side was "NO LIMITS". Kind of hard to compromise with that. But I tried, check out this post from more than three years ago. And there are lots more.


http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...oads#post62946

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I have been pushing for a compromise for years. That was back when the watchword on the anti-SL side was "NO LIMITS". Kind of hard to compromise with that. But I tried, check out this post from more than three years ago. And there are lots more.


http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...oads#post62946

I'm not for speed limits in the broads, but I do have to side with BI on this one. He was for a compromise back when and "NO LIMITS" was the battle cry! I was going to mention this a while back when the "compromise" conversation came back into play, but decided to stay out this for a while.

[lawn psycho]

Does anyone have the data showing the speeds that tickets were issued by MP for 2010?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Does anyone have the data showing the speeds that tickets were issued by MP for 2010?

SBONH might be a good place to start; however, SBONH doesn't appear to know how many speeding tickets were issued in the first place. SBONH is quoted as saying, 21 tickets were issued, but had earlier stated 20.

Presently, that number has dropped down to 8; however, many of the NHMP's latest data for 2010 ("hat-tip" to VitaBene) are listed as "pending":



Does it matter anyway? Skip said it best, when he asserted "the effort is doomed".

In Concord, the word "compromise" has been thrown into the discussion—a compromise is never voiced from the position of a convincing argument.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Why can there not be any COMPROMISE?? Its like the western front in WWI... Both sides seem dug in and unwilling to budge!

I have no problem with a nighttime limit because thats when ALL of the accidents cited by WINNFABS have occured!

I have a problem with a daytime limit because there is ABSOLUTELY NO DATA WHATSOEVER to show that its necessary! No accidents! No anything! Just anecdotal stories about how the guy went by me too close and too fast! We all have stories like that! Because I like to putt around the lake, I have stories like that involving every kind of boat!

We need to find a compromise that we can all live with so we can put this issue to rest once and for all! The divisiveness on the lake is acidic!

Woodsy

Here's a compromise proposal: How about modifying the safe passage law? (You know, the law that's already on the books requiring 150' distance between the boat and any shore, swimraft, dock, swimmer, another boat, etc., when said boat is traveling more than headway speed.) Let's modify this law to state that any boat going over 45mph (this seems to be the trigger point according to speed limit supporters) be required to double the current 150' buffer and maintain a 300' distance between the boat and any shore, swimraft, dock, swimmer, another boat, etc. This is a distance of a football field and should be a welcome compromise from both sides. What say you speed limit supporters? Are you willing to consider this compromise or is it all or nothing for you? Let's hear it.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Here's a compromise proposal: How about modifying the safe passage law? (You know, the law that's already on the books requiring 150' distance between the boat and any shore, swimraft, dock, swimmer, another boat, etc., when said boat is traveling more than headway speed.) Let's modify this law to state that any boat going over 45mph (this seems to be the trigger point according to speed limit supporters) be required to double the current 150' buffer and maintain a 300' distance between the boat and any shore, swimraft, dock, swimmer, another boat, etc. This is a distance of a football field and should be a welcome compromise from both sides. What say you speed limit supporters? Are you willing to consider this compromise or is it all or nothing for you? Let's hear it.

I don't want my everyday middle of the road bowrider to be limited to 45 MPH and turn a majority of the boats on the lake into law breakers. 45 MPH is too slow.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

To a casual observer, the SBONH's preliminary efforts just seemed like window dressing that was a lead-up to their #1 true intent of repealing the boat speed limits.

Here's what's on the SBONH home page:

"This group is dedicated to discussing safe power boating and recreational activities on Lake Winnipesaukee and the other inland lakes of the Lakes Region in NH. We work together to help shape legislation that affects our freedoms and enjoyment of the lakes."

Clearly, SBONH is involved in SB-27, I'm pretty sure everyone is aware of that.

The casual observer can also note the SBONH has also been involved with US Power Squadron Safety Inspections prior to endorsing SB-27. Those safety inspections have nothing to do with speed limits and amount to more than just "window dressing", IMO.

FWIW, I eagerly joined SBONH but was never interested in having any involvement with NHRBA. In hindsight, I think I chose well...