speedometer vs. GPS

[hancoveguy]

Rusty, I am really not trying to argue with you and I apologize if my previous post looked sarcastic or disrespectful. Was not my intention. Some people just don't understand that without the estimation rule,( and a few other discretionary allowances of L/E) you would have no legal grounds to stop the vehicle and even warn him. I agree with you 100% about an officer's lack of certification. If you cant maintain certification, stay home. But the scenario I gave you is real and I assure you it happens all the time. Just to expand a bit more on it. Lets say you estimate and when you pull the car over the person...was drunk or just robbed a bank or just smacked his wife around or just committed any crime. Without the estimation rule, you have no grounds to stop the vehicle. If you stop it anyway, anything you discover ie drunk, car full of money from bank robbery, bloody knuckles from domestic A&B etc... all of this is 100% inadmissable in court. In other words, because the evidence was obtained without probable cause for the stop, the evidence is lawfully excluded from trial (wong sun- fruit of poisonous tree doctrine).

Its a balancing test-
The rights of persons to be secure from illegal search and siezure (4th amd)
vs
The rights of the police to make reasonable attempts to ensure the safety of the motoring public.

Worst case- someone is unlawfully (but not maliciously) given a non criminal traffic fine
Best case- complete motoring anarchy is prevented (slight hyperbole)


Respectfully
HCG

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by hancoveguy

Worst case- someone is unlawfully (but not maliciously) given a non criminal traffic fine
Best case- complete motoring anarchy is prevented (slight hyperbole)

HCG, the issue with how you losely throw around a traffic citation is you discount the days of background checks and the internet.

Get a secret/top secret security clearance for the Fed Gov and EVERY ticket and hangnail you ever had needs to be revealed. Those tickets also have an impact on your insurance rates.

I was run over by an SUV while riding my bike. During the disposition my driving record, the # of hairs on my head, you name it was put on the table for the drivers insurance company to see.

Speeding ticket fines are nothing. That's why people speed. Make the punishment or fine harsh/high enough and it would be nearly eradicated. But, just like DUI, it's an industry that generates money.

Also, giving cops a loose leash to stop for any reason isn't reasonale either. When I was in the Navy and 19 yo my best friend and I spent 2 weeks in Florida. While driving home as we passed into GA, I was doing exactly the speed limit. Getting a ticket while in the Navy nuclear power program with a submarine designation could get you adminstratively dropped from the program on personal conduct grounds. I was driving a Ford Taurus and it was 2 or 3 AM. Out of nowhere a state trooper pulled us over . Apparently 2 white males in a basic 4-door sedan doing the speed limit in the middle of the night on I-95 fit the drug running profile. When he stopped us, he asked where we were going. I told him VA. He then asked us to step out of the car and had us put our hands on the hood while he was radioing in my license. I also handed him my military ID which didn't seem to impress him. During that time he asked if he could search my car and I made the mistake of asking "why" instead of "go ahead". My friend then had the wits to ask why he stopped us. He said my license plate light was out. We go to the back of the car and it was on

About 45 minutes on the side of the road and having a drug dog search the car we were let go.

I have a jaded view of how police conduct business so I'm not cutting you even 0.0000001% slack. My rights and the constitution mean something to me and your post above seems like you're willing to bend them. Of course being a cop, I'm not surprised.

[Ryan]

Relevant on a few levels....

http://www.cnbc.com/id/41621788

[lawn psycho]

I like the cops face at the end of the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTJwx...layer_embedded

[hancoveguy]

Okay, it appears one of us is a bit too bitter from way back. My involvement in this post was on a novelty level, maybe I could shed some light on the way some things are done from a perfectly legal law enforcement stand point. I believe I even used the word "playfully." You apparently are a bit more emotionally involved in this issue than I care to devote the energy required to defend my position. I guarantee you my respect and knowledge of "our" constitution is at least equal to yours if not better (several pedigrees to back this up). You clearly dislike the police in general and are hiding behind "your" constitutional rights to justify this vitriol.

For your benefit, I will refrain from any further comments, posts or threads that may purport to force my overzealous, "big brother," unconstitutionality on the forum's readers. I will limit my posts to regaling the readers with stories of when I was in the service and my rights were violated and offer short stories involving me being the perpetual victim.

My apologies to anyone else I may have offended,
HCG

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by hancoveguy

Okay, it appears one of us is a bit too bitter from way back. My involvement in this post was on a novelty level, maybe I could shed some light on the way some things are done from a perfectly legal law enforcement stand point. I believe I even used the word "playfully." You apparently are a bit more emotionally involved in this issue than I care to devote the energy required to defend my position. I guarantee you my respect and knowledge of "our" constitution is at least equal to yours if not better (several pedigrees to back this up). You clearly dislike the police in general and are hiding behind "your" constitutional rights to justify this vitriol.

For your benefit, I will refrain from any further comments, posts or threads that may purport to force my overzealous, "big brother," unconstitutionality on the forum's readers. I will limit my posts to regaling the readers with stories of when I was in the service and my rights were violated and offer short stories involving me being the perpetual victim.

My apologies to anyone else I may have offended,
HCG

Hancoveguy;

I for one find your posts most informative, honest and respectful. I truly hope you will continue to post as you have and not change your ways because of one or two disagreeing posts.

Be proud of how you serve the community! I thank you for it!

Respectfully;

Dan

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by hancoveguy

Okay, it appears one of us is a bit too bitter from way back. My involvement in this post was on a novelty level, maybe I could shed some light on the way some things are done from a perfectly legal law enforcement stand point. I believe I even used the word "playfully." You apparently are a bit more emotionally involved in this issue than I care to devote the energy required to defend my position. I guarantee you my respect and knowledge of "our" constitution is at least equal to yours if not better (several pedigrees to back this up). You clearly dislike the police in general and are hiding behind "your" constitutional rights to justify this vitriol.

For your benefit, I will refrain from any further comments, posts or threads that may purport to force my overzealous, "big brother," unconstitutionality on the forum's readers. I will limit my posts to regaling the readers with stories of when I was in the service and my rights were violated and offer short stories involving me being the perpetual victim.

My apologies to anyone else I may have offended,
HCG

Hancoveguy,

I think you have done an outstanding job with all of your comments concerning this threads topic. I asked you questions and IMHO you gave me honest and well thought out answers.

Thank you for your service to our great country and also for being a member of law enforcement who do such a great job to protect our communities.

If I have said something that offended you in anyway then I apologize.

Rusty

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by hancoveguy

Okay, it appears one of us is a bit too bitter from way back. My involvement in this post was on a novelty level, maybe I could shed some light on the way some things are done from a perfectly legal law enforcement stand point. I believe I even used the word "playfully." You apparently are a bit more emotionally involved in this issue than I care to devote the energy required to defend my position. I guarantee you my respect and knowledge of "our" constitution is at least equal to yours if not better (several pedigrees to back this up). You clearly dislike the police in general and are hiding behind "your" constitutional rights to justify this vitriol.

For your benefit, I will refrain from any further comments, posts or threads that may purport to force my overzealous, "big brother," unconstitutionality on the forum's readers. I will limit my posts to regaling the readers with stories of when I was in the service and my rights were violated and offer short stories involving me being the perpetual victim.

My apologies to anyone else I may have offended,
HCG

HCG, I just so happen to have a relative how owns a seacoast business that is frequented by a large number of Seacoast PDs. I know more than a handful on a personal level. I don't dislike the police in general but know some officiers who I don't believe should be allowed to wear badges. I'm sure you know some of them. At least based on your previous posts I didn't think you fit that category until I saw the what appears to be an acceptance of 'blurring' reasons to stop someone and I understand the tough position cops are placed in when it seems the crooks have the upper-hand.

I've told this story to other officers over the years and nearly everyone of them comes up with a justification for it and many like yourself tend to use an "end justifies the means argument."

It happened to me and I'm sure it's happened again to someone else. That's unfortunate as it was a humilating/scary experience for a 19 yo old impressionable kid which I was at the time.

[BroadHopper]

Talked to someone at Garmin about the radar - garmin discrepency. They say both devices should be dead on. They are willing to be expert testimony on the validity of the GPS. If the courts don't believe the accuracy of the GPS, that would put the GPS system in a nutshell.

If I had unplug the Garmin right after the stop, they may be able to hack the memory and show the court my accurate speed. next time I know better. The date and time will be stamped.

I still say the officer had a bad day and made my day.

Twice in my life, I was picked up for DUI and had my day in court. I am profound hard of hearing and my speech is not good. I have bad equilibrium and I can not walk a straight line. I was giving the breathalyzer and I pass. Yet, the officers insist I was onto something and arrested me. Both times I was found guilty in, what my lawyer says, 'kangaroo court'. Yet both officers failed to appear in appeals court. So the convictions were thrown out. I lost my license for 30 days even though I was innocent. Is that justice? Since then, I hate to be driving around at night.

Next time I get caught speeding, I'm saving my GPS memory.

[hancoveguy]

Thank you Skip, Rusty and Dan (Ishoot), for the kind words. I really enjoy this forum and will continue to post (thank you for the priviledge). I did attempt to agree to disagree but I stooped and took the bait. Shame on me, lol.

I am renewed and refreshed and can't wait til ice out...
Bring on the boating season!!!


HCG

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by hancoveguy

Thank you Skip, Rusty and Dan (Ishoot), for the kind words. I really enjoy this forum and will continue to post (thank you for the priviledge). I did attempt to agree to disagree but I stooped and took the bait. Shame on me, lol.

I am renewed and refreshed and can't wait til ice out...
Bring on the boating season!!!


HCG

Took the bait? I guess someone else typed those words for you that giving tickets and pulling people over for virtually any reason based on officer discretion is OK. Funny how the brotherhood and Skip was so quick to defend you. I stand 100% behind what I've posted and if you think you are taking some kind of high road, your posts above shows your character as an officer IMO.. The only "bait" appears to be the one's you pull over when you are on your next power trip.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Took the bait? I guess someone else typed those words for you that giving tickets and pulling people over for virtually any reason based on officer discretion is OK. Funny how the brotherhood and Skip was so quick to defend you. I stand 100% behind what I've posted and if you think you are taking some kind of high road, your posts above shows your character as an officer IMO.. The only "bait" appears to be the one's you pull over when you are on your next power trip.

L.P.

I guess I'll take the bait this time...By your term "brotherhood" are you alluding to the fact I am somehow involved with law enforcement?? If so, let me state for the record that I am not. I do not know nor have I ever met Hancoveguy. I merely stated that I have enjoyed his posts in the past and respect what he does for a living. You may not and that is your opinion.

Dan

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

L.P.

I guess I'll take the bait this time...By your term "brotherhood" are you alluding to the fact I am somehow involved with law enforcement?? If so, let me state for the record that I am not. I do not know nor have I ever met Hancoveguy. I merely stated that I have enjoyed his posts in the past and respect what he does for a living. You may not and that is your opinion.

Dan

I was referring to skip......

[jrc]

Lawn psycho, you make some good points but you went too far. Just like on the rafting thread.

I've had spirited discussions on this board with some of these guys. If you discuss things rationally they will respond in kind. You can learn a lot and make your point. Even if you never agree with someone, it is good to see why they believe what they believe.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by jrc

Lawn psycho, you make some good points but you went too far. Just like on the rafting thread.

I've had spirited discussions on this board with some of these guys. If you discuss things rationally they will respond in kind. You can learn a lot and make your point. Even if you never agree with someone, it is good to see why they believe what they believe.

I was fine with the back and forth banter until he posted to Rusty about the innocuous nature of a speeding ticket based on subjective criteria and it's OK for people to get a ticket even if they may not have deserved it. Tickets are not as innocuous as you may think so if I were to get one, the officer better damn well have a proper justification. A Ferrari looks fast to me even when parked, so why not just write a speeding ticket and place it under the wiper blade?

[jrc]

I'm not disputing your side of the discussion. A speeding ticket is no small matter.

All I'm saying is you could have explained your concern with HCG's opinions and had a better chance of making him understand your concerns, it you didn't go to all brotherhood and power trip stuff.

You now have missed that opportunity. He now just thinks you're a hothead.

Just like the rafting zone discussion, lots of really good points and then the blast them with the radio comment, discussion over.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by jrc

I'm not disputing your side of the discussion. A speeding ticket is no small matter.

All I'm saying is you could have explained your concern with HCG's opinions and had a better chance of making him understand your concerns, it you didn't go to all brotherhood and power trip stuff.

You now have missed that opportunity. He now just thinks you're a hothead.

Just like the rafting zone discussion, lots of really good points and then the blast them with the radio comment, discussion over.

I can rest on the fact that it's design engineers like me who bring these kind of things to market like radar guns (which isn't my area of practice) and then use technology to take it right back from them.

It must really piss off a cop to point a laser gun at a car and his display reads nothing or "Err"

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

I can rest on the fact that it's design engineers like me who bring these kind of things to market like radar guns (which isn't my area of practice) and then use technology to take it right back from them.

It must really piss off a cop to point a laser gun at a car and his display reads nothing or "Err"

Design engineers like you??? How in heck can you be a design engineer and be on this forum 24/7??

Thank god I didn't have people like you working for me when I was in the same field that you are in (or at least you say you are in).

It's no wonder that this country is falling behind when it comes to productivity….our design engineers are screwing the company that they work for by being on forums like this all day long!

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Design engineers like you??? How in heck can you be a design engineer and be on this forum 24/7??

Thank god I didn't have people like you working for me when I was in the same field that you are in (or at least you say you are in).

It's no wonder that this country is falling behind when it comes to productivity….our design engineers are screwing the company that they work for by being on forums like this all day long!

When we're full gear on a project it's nearly round the clock and I'm in between projects right now. I could only WISH we had slack-off time. Days away from the kick-off of the next project actually. I have enjoyed reading up on the latest radar technology over the last couple days and even finished another book and still had time to read the forum. Imagine that

You can step off the soap box now, I didn't realize that you're my keeper.

Psst, Rusty: I say, I say, BOY, I'm not at work right now

Edit: Odds are you would be working for me.

[Gavia immer]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

I can rest on the fact that it's design engineers like me who bring these kind of things to market like radar guns (which isn't my area of practice) and then use technology to take it right back from them.

It must really piss off a cop to point a laser gun at a car and his display reads nothing or "Err"

How much longer can you expect to be on "your" side of Federal law?

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Gavia immer

How much longer can you expect to be on "your" side of Federal law?

*Cough* lasar jamming vs radar jamming Go re-read above ^^^^^^^ and you'll see my reference was to radar. Lasar jamming is legal under Federal Law. For the record, lasar jamming is not full-proof but the high-end models are pretty darn good.

[Gavia immer]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

I was referring to skip......

Skip knows and researches law, but I don't recall that he is presently employed by any law enforcement agency.

[brk-lnt]

An interesting story on the officer/radar vs. GPS discussion:

http://skattertech.com/2011/02/how-m...traffic-court/

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

An interesting story on the officer/radar vs. GPS discussion:

http://skattertech.com/2011/02/how-m...traffic-court/

If one have enough evidence that you were within the limits, you can be found not guilty. I will be searching for similar stories. Next time an officer says his radar is clocking me ay an unreasonable speed. I will save my GPS data.

The Android app, by the way, is real. My daughter, who is a marathon runner uses the same app for her training. It tracks her whereabout on line and other runners compare data. Pretty slick!

[Gavia immer]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

I know more than a handful on a personal level. I don't dislike the police in general but know some officiers who I don't believe should be allowed to wear badges.

Would those include any of officers in the NH Marine Patrol?

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Gavia immer

Would those include any of officers in the NH Marine Patrol?

I don't know any NHMP officers nor have I ever been stopped, etc so that would be no. NHMP is probably a different scenario as many of them are seasonal and serve a slightly different clientele (boaters) where parking 149 ft from shore in a NRZ is reason to turn on the lights and politely asking people to move. The para-military type officers probably aren't satisfied with that type of duty

[hancoveguy]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

I like the cops face at the end of the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTJwx...layer_embedded

BTW, I truly hope you realize that this video is fiction produced by your radar detector company for the sole purpose of selling their products.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by hancoveguy

BTW, I truly hope you realize that this video is fiction produced by your radar detector company for the sole purpose of selling their products.

Do ya think?