Todays article on SB-27....2/23/11

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Rusty

For his part, Forsythe was not showing his hand. He said that he was unable to attend the entire committee hearing and intended to review all the testimony presented. Forsythe, who is aligned with the Republican Liberty Caucus of New Hampshire and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance, said that he regarded SB-27 as "pro-freedom bill." However, in the next breath, he acknowledged that a significant share of his constituents, favored the speed limits.

I hope Mr. Forsythe does not consider the opinions of his contituents when voting. He is not a representative and is not supposed to base his votes on popular opinion or things specific to his district. Being a Senator his job is much more important and he is supposed to vote based on facts and for the good of the entire state, popular or not. It seems like so many Senators (especially at the national level) forget that and are concerned more with doing the popular thing to get re-elected than doing the right thing.

[lawn psycho]

All I know is 45 MPH won't stand the test of time. It turns a majority of boats into "technical" law breakers. Many boats can cruise at 50 MPH down Alton Bay with plenty of seperation and there is no pandamonium.

The speed limit won't change one thing on the lake.

It's people like me that will drive Warren Hutchins and his ilk crazy as we know how to contact legislators too

Rusty, look at the demographic of the pro-SL crowd. White belts, plaid pants, pocket protectors and reading glasses hanging from their chests, and shoes that have velcro for laces. So, "if the shoe fits" (pun intended)

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I hope Mr. Forsythe does not consider the opinions of his contituents when voting. He is not a representative and is not supposed to base his votes on popular opinion or things specific to his district. Being a Senator his job is much more important and he is supposed to vote based on facts and for the good of the entire state, popular or not. It seems like so many Senators (especially at the national level) forget that and are concerned more with doing the popular thing to get re-elected than doing the right thing.

http://jimforsythe.com/about-jim/

12-years active duty in the Air Force......anybody know what rank he achieved....captain or major....just guessing?

It sure seems like his vote is the swing vote what with two for, and two against within the senate transportation committee. Hey, there's no rule that the full senate cannot decide to overlook the recommendation of a committee and not go along with its' recommendation.

So's locally, the two state senators with towns that border Lake Winnipesaukee, Senators Bradley and Forrester both say they support the speed limit. Have to wonder which way the third local state senator, Senator Forsythe, will be voting?

[TiltonBB]

Enough Crap!

I have been boating on Winnipesaukee for over 40 years and I own both residential and commercial property on the lake in two different towns.

Anyone (really anyone) who tells you that the speed limit is either needed or has made one bit of difference is delusional.

Every summer I am out in my my boat at least 5 days a week from May 1st until sometime in October. The only change that I have seen while boating on the lake is that for the last two years there has been reduced traffic because of the economy. The proof of that is that marinas have many slip vacancies and the gas consumption on the lake is down substantially. Ask the marina owners.

There is no credible evidence that the speed limit accomplishes a thing except to waste the time of legislators, marine patrol, and citizens and taxpayers!

The clowns that keep pushing this should find a new hobby!

[Sandy Beach]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Enough Crap!

I have been boating on Winnipesaukee for over 40 years and I own both residential and commercial property on the lake in two different towns.

Anyone (really anyone) who tells you that the speed limit is either needed or has made one bit of difference is delusional.

Every summer I am out in my my boat at least 5 days a week from May 1st until sometime in October. The only change that I have seen while boating on the lake is that for the last two years there has been reduced traffic because of the economy. The proof of that is that marinas have many slip vacancies and the gas consumption on the lake is down substantially. Ask the marina owners.

There is no credible evidence that the speed limit accomplishes a thing except to waste the time of legislators, marine patrol, and citizens and taxpayers!

The clowns that keep pushing this should find a new hobby!

Everyone has a right to be wrong but the speed limit rhetoric is over the top. Your concise comments TiltonBB sum it up so well. Too bad there are no "studies" to demonstrate how true this is.

Some people would rather the MP spend hours and hours playing speed laser tag with a very few fast boats instead of watching for safe passage and right of way violations and safety issues.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Enough Crap!

I have been boating on Winnipesaukee for over 40 years and I own both residential and commercial property on the lake in two different towns.

Anyone (really anyone) who tells you that the speed limit is either needed or has made one bit of difference is delusional.

Every summer I am out in my my boat at least 5 days a week from May 1st until sometime in October. The only change that I have seen while boating on the lake is that for the last two years there has been reduced traffic because of the economy. The proof of that is that marinas have many slip vacancies and the gas consumption on the lake is down substantially. Ask the marina owners.

There is no credible evidence that the speed limit accomplishes a thing except to waste the time of legislators, marine patrol, and citizens and taxpayers!

The clowns that keep pushing this should find a new hobby!

How much reduced traffic was there, i.e., 100 less boats or maybe 1000 less boats? It’s easy to say you saw less boats, but how many? Certainly if you know for a fact that there were less boats then you must have a count from prior years to compare it to.

Evidently you went to each marina on the Lake and asked each of them about how many slip vacancies they have compared to prior years…..could you share that number with us? Maybe you took pictures from prior years and then went around and compared them to what you see now. Please share that with us also.

Gas consumption is down substantially….how much down compared to prior years? You must have that number so why not share it with us. There is no sense in all of us going around and bothering the marinas when you have already done that.

Thank you for all your research and I will be waiting for this very important data.

[lawn psycho]

Rusty, over the winter Melvin Village Marina sends out the holiday reminders and little tidbits about whats going on at the dealership/marina. Sorta reminds you that you even own a boat when there's snow drifts outside

Matt, the new president even wrote in the letter that it was a tough year for sales.

Not many years ago, you had to get on a waiting list for most marinas on the lake. Now I'm almost certain for a boat under 25-30 ft you can get a slip with ease if you decide to switch to another marina or boat sizes.

I'm willing to bet if someone invested time in putting the data together that you asked for (possibly tongue and cheek), that it would show reduced gas purchases and slips rentals for the last two years.

I'm been able to make reservations at places last minute on prime days with EASE whereas in the past I would have required to place them well in advance.

And if gas prices keep climbing and stay high we can all hang on to our hats for another hit to the economy. The stock market is practically waiting for an excuse to have a correction right now.....

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Rusty

How much reduced traffic was there, i.e., 100 less boats or maybe 1000 less boats? It’s easy to say you saw less boats, but how many? Certainly if you know for a fact that there were less boats then you must have a count from prior years to compare it to.

Evidently you went to each marina on the Lake and asked each of them about how many slip vacancies they have compared to prior years…..could you share that number with us? Maybe you took pictures from prior years and then went around and compared them to what you see now. Please share that with us also.

Gas consumption is down substantially….how much down compared to prior years? You must have that number so why not share it with us. There is no sense in all of us going around and bothering the marinas when you have already done that.

Thank you for all your research and I will be waiting for this very important data.

Without breaking the confidence entrusted to me by many business owners that I am personal friends with I will tell you this: Gas sales at marinas on the lake have been down for the last three years. In 2010 the amount of the decrease I heard from owners I talked to was in the 25% to 30% range.

In addition to the commercial and residential property on the lake that I own I also own a slip at Mountain View Yacht Club the largest marina on the lake. That slip has been rented to a tenant for many years.

MVYC has 284 slips about 50% of which are used by owners and the other half are rented out. Until 2008 there was always a waiting list to get a slip there. In 2010 there were over 50 slips (at just this one marina) whose owners wished to rent them out but could not find tenants so the slips remained vacant.

Across the United States last spring and into summer, boat sales were running about 35 percent down and in April they were 20 percent down. The sterndrive/jet boat segment sales were down about 28 percent, the personal watercraft segment was down about 13 percent. In addition, the ski boat segment was down about 25 percent. The information is based on new U.S. boat registrations in geographically dispersed states representing roughly half of the U.S. boat market.

Is with this information combined with my personal observations (involving an extensive amount of common sense) that I have come to the obvious conclusion that the boat traffic on Winnipesaukee is down substantially. I have formed my opinions based on fact, not speculation.

I hope I have provided the facts you were looking for.

Enforcement of the existing laws without a speed limit is all that we need.

Again, the people trying to push legislation that we do not need should go find a new hobby.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Without breaking the confidence entrusted to me by many business owners that I am personal friends with I will tell you this: Gas sales at marinas on the lake have been down for the last three years. In 2010 the amount of the decrease I heard from owners I talked to was in the 25% to 30% range.

In addition to the commercial and residential property on the lake that I own I also own a slip at Mountain View Yacht Club the largest marina on the lake. That slip has been rented to a tenant for many years.

MVYC has 284 slips about 50% of which are used by owners and the other half are rented out. Until 2008 there was always a waiting list to get a slip there. In 2010 there were over 50 slips (at just this one marina) whose owners wished to rent them out but could not find tenants so the slips remained vacant.

Across the United States last spring and into summer, boat sales were running about 35 percent down and in April they were 20 percent down. The sterndrive/jet boat segment sales were down about 28 percent, the personal watercraft segment was down about 13 percent. In addition, the ski boat segment was down about 25 percent. The information is based on new U.S. boat registrations in geographically dispersed states representing roughly half of the U.S. boat market.

Is with this information combined with my personal observations (involving an extensive amount of common sense) that I have come to the obvious conclusion that the boat traffic on Winnipesaukee is down substantially. I have formed my opinions based on fact, not speculation.

I hope I have provided the facts you were looking for.

Enforcement of the existing laws without a speed limit is all that we need.

Again, the people trying to push legislation that we do not need should go find a new hobby.

Those personal facts might be good enough for you but they sure aren’t what I would call accurate statistical analysis data.

“25% to 30% range”……. “about 50%”……”over 50 slips”, “running about 35 percent down”, “ski boat segment was down about 25 percent”, “representing roughly half of the U.S. boat market” ??????

Come-on TiltonBB, you can’t just throw figures like that around without having backup data. Spend some more time getting realistic figures and then let us know what you come up with.

Maybe as a hobby you should take a class in statistical analysis.

[jarhead0341]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Those personal facts might be good enough for you but they sure aren’t what I would call accurate statistical analysis data.

“25% to 30% range”……. “about 50%”……”over 50 slips”, “running about 35 percent down”, “ski boat segment was down about 25 percent”, “representing roughly half of the U.S. boat market” ??????

Come-on TiltonBB, you can’t just throw figures like that around without having backup data. Spend some more time getting realistic figures and then let us know what you come up with.

Maybe as a hobby you should take a class in statistical analysis.

and your facts are posted where?

[jarhead0341]

Still waiting

Originally Posted by jarhead0341

and your facts are posted where?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by jarhead0341

Still waiting

Open the lid and look inside. You'll find the facts there for sure!

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Those personal facts might be good enough for you but they sure aren’t what I would call accurate statistical analysis data.

“25% to 30% range”……. “about 50%”……”over 50 slips”, “running about 35 percent down”, “ski boat segment was down about 25 percent”, “representing roughly half of the U.S. boat market” ??????

Come-on TiltonBB, you can’t just throw figures like that around without having backup data. Spend some more time getting realistic figures and then let us know what you come up with.

Maybe as a hobby you should take a class in statistical analysis.

I can assure you that the majority of people reading my previous post will find it factual and informative. The only readers that will not agree are those with blinders on and a pre-disposition to an illogical conclusion. Those people who are aware of what is happening on the lake will agree with the facts presented. Sorry that it appears that you are not in that group.

Rather than ask me to do your homework perhaps you could provide some facts of your own.

You can try this web address for more information. There are weekly reports generally prepared for people involved in the boating industry:

http://www.boating-industry.com/

The facts regarding boat registrations that I presented are outlined there.

The problem with the pro speed limit crowd is, to paraphrase Ronald Regan's words: It isn't that they don't know anything it is just that so much of what they know is wrong!

[Seaplane Pilot]

I don't care how much factual data gets presented - it will never matter to the speed limit crowd. Why let facts get in the way of a great soap opera? Half of these people ought to receive an Oscar for their performances.

[ronc4424]

Rusty, I don't know whether you boat on wknds, but when ever I put my jet boat ( it goes 59 mph, but I keep it at 39 so I don't break any laws ) in Center Harbor, and put put down to Alton Bay, one only has to use ones eyes to notice how much traffic there isn't.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Those personal facts might be good enough for you but they sure aren’t what I would call accurate statistical analysis data.

“25% to 30% range”……. “about 50%”……”over 50 slips”, “running about 35 percent down”, “ski boat segment was down about 25 percent”, “representing roughly half of the U.S. boat market” ??????

Come-on TiltonBB, you can’t just throw figures like that around without having backup data. Spend some more time getting realistic figures and then let us know what you come up with.

Maybe as a hobby you should take a class in statistical analysis.

What accurate statistcal data was analyzed by the pro-speed limit folks when they pushed to have the sunset provision ended a year early?

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Those personal facts might be good enough for you but they sure aren’t what I would call accurate statistical analysis data.

“25% to 30% range”……. “about 50%”……”over 50 slips”, “running about 35 percent down”, “ski boat segment was down about 25 percent”, “representing roughly half of the U.S. boat market” ??????

Come-on TiltonBB, you can’t just throw figures like that around without having backup data. Spend some more time getting realistic figures and then let us know what you come up with.

Maybe as a hobby you should take a class in statistical analysis.

Hey Rusty/Elchase/Warren or however you might be, Get A Grip!

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by gtagrip

Hey Rusty/Elchase/Warren or however you might be, Get A Grip!

"however"???? do you mean whoever?

I would say you have a mild case of "Dysgraphia"

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by Rusty

"however"???? do you mean whoever?

I would say you have a mild case of "Dysgraphia"

Thanks for correcting my typo! When one works fulltime for a living, I'm typing quickly. Obviously, you knew what I meant!

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by gtagrip

Thanks for correcting my typo! When one works fulltime for a living, I'm typing quickly. Obviously, you knew what I meant!

No problem.

Have a good day!

[jarhead0341]

* 2 on tilton''s post I to am at mvyc and rent up until the last few years I was concerned about having a slip the last two years no worry there have been tons of open slips and have been driving around a lot less

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I hope Mr. Forsythe does not consider the opinions of his contituents when voting. He is not a representative and is not supposed to base his votes on popular opinion or things specific to his district. Being a Senator his job is much more important and he is supposed to vote based on facts and for the good of the entire state, popular or not. It seems like so many Senators (especially at the national level) forget that and are concerned more with doing the popular thing to get re-elected than doing the right thing.

I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment of the role politicians play, as we do live in a representative republic. Our elected representatives are just that, supposed to represent the best interest of their constituents. Therefore I would expect that they would take under consideration what the people they represent have to say and vote accordingly, even if it happens to be in direct conflict with their own personal position.

Of course facts need to weigh into any decision as well but you can't just completely disregard public opinion either. The problem is politicians spend their time pandering to special interests, fall prey to media scrutiny, or even worse take the "party line" all because they stand to personally gain from such positions. That's where we the voters have to pay close attention to who is in public office, these reps are NOT sent into office to do what's best for them or their political careers, they are there to represent the folks that put them there in the first place.

I fully expect that any elected official who may hold a position that is contrary to popular opinion would have the fortitude to go out and explain themselves to those that put them into office, if they are on the correct side of the issue they will successfully win the hearts and minds of the voters.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment of the role politicians play, as we do live in a representative republic. Our elected representatives are just that, supposed to represent the best interest of their constituents. Therefore I would expect that they would take under consideration what the people they represent have to say and vote accordingly, even if it happens to be in direct conflict with their own personal position.

Mr. Forsythe is not a Representative, he's a Senator. I agree that he's supposed to work in our best interest, but I disagree that he is supposed to vote for whatever is popular with his constituents, that's the job of Representatives.