more expert testimony on SB-27

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I don't undertstand how raising the speed limit to 55 on the Broads affects kids going to camp on Bear Island. With the 45 MPH daytime speed limit, there's obviously nothing to limit to on-water activities right now. If the speed limit gets raised in the Broads, nothing changes for Bear Island camps, it's still 45 MPH near the camps.

You are correct. I am not opposed to 55 mph on the broads. It seems to be a very reasonable compromise.

The central argument is speed limits vs no limits.

Are you saying that if 55 in the broads passes you will then be perfectly happy with speed limits?

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Are you saying that if 55 in the broads passes you will then be perfectly happy with speed limits?

I think 55 is a little slow for an area that's 15 square miles open water, but it's better than 45 and a step in the right direction. I was perfectly happy without daytime limits, but I think 45 around areas like Bear Island is reasonable and prudent.

[fatlazyless]

Yesterday's April 20 Laconia Citizen, which is now only available to read when you buy it for 50-cents at a news stand and not on the internet anymore, had a headline article on the SB-27 hearing at the statehouse. The Concord Monitor, Laconia Daily Sun, and the Laconia Citizen all had news stories on it. The Union Leader, which is the biggest newspaper in the state, did not cover it.

The article in the Citizen suggests that the tide of legislative opinion in the 400-seat House of Representatives could be turning, and that it well could be that SB-27 will be voted NO by a majority of the state reps.

Of the 80 different people who attended the hearing as visitors to the statehouse, which included "camp directors, the Loon Preservation Society, business owners, the N.H. Lakes Association, and regular voters": 73 signed the roll as being against SB-27, which raises the speed limit in the broads from 45-mph up to 55-mph, and only 7 were in favor. That's a ratio of ten to one!

Could be that Gov Lynch and his veto stamp may not be needed? Time will tell?

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

The article in the Citizen suggests that the tide of legislative opinion in the 400-seat House of Representatives could be turning, and that it well could be that SB-27 will be voted NO by a majority of the state reps.

You are right "fatlazyless", the tide is changing in a big way.

The Republican State Representative D. J. Bettencourt, the House majority leader, has just put this thing to bed. He is against SB-27.


This is what the Citizen article said:

Boat speed limit supporters buoyed by hearing
Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 6:00 am

Boat speed limit supporters buoyed by hearing By JOHN KOZIOL jkoziol@citizen.com citizen.com | 0 comments

CONCORD — Based on his and others' testimony, including a number of Lakes Region lawmakers, Warren Hutchins is optimistic that a bill to raise the daytime speed limit in The Broads on Lake Winnipesaukee will not succeed.

Senate Bill 27, which squeaked out of the Senate on a 13-11 vote, was the subject of four hours of hearings Tuesday before the House of Representative's Transportation Committee which will vote on the item sometime next month.

In addition to what he said appeared to be the committee's receptivity to the pro-speed limits argument, Hutchins, who is a Laconia resident and a member of WinnFABS — the Winnipesaukee Family Alliance for Boating Safety — also has an e-mail pledge from state Rep. D.J. Bettencourt, the House Republican leader, to oppose SB27.

SB27 represents a compromise presented by the Safe Boaters of New Hampshire, which has faced off against WinnFABS since 2006, that would have eliminated numeric speed limits on the Big Lake entirely, instead letting Marine Patrol officers determine whether a boat was traveling too fast for current conditions.

Having prevailed in getting the Legislature in 2009 to adopt a 45-mile-per-hour daytime limit and 25 mph nighttime limit on Lake Winnipesaukee, WinnFABS and its supporters were upset when the N.H. General Court last year raised the nighttime limit to 30 mph. When SB27 was introduced earlier this year, WinnFABS lined up against it and later against the compromise proposed by SBONH that would raise the daytime limit to 50 mph, but only in The Broads.

Last week, both WinnFABS and SBONH released studies that they said bolstered their respective positions. On Tuesday, Hutchins said he reiterated some of the points in his group's research which he noted found overwhelming support for speed limits on Lake Winnipesaukee.

By his math, Hutchins thinks speed limit supporters outnumbered opponents by a factor of 10:1 on Tuesday, based on the number of people who noted their preference in writing to the committee; while in direct testimony, "and I try not to be prejudiced, but I believe it was close to 85 percent of speakers who wanted to leave the 45-25 as it is."

Among the speakers on behalf of the speed limits were Jeff Thurston of Thurston Marine in Laconia, as well as state representatives Alida Millham, R-Gilford, chair of the Belknap County Delegation, as well as Peter Bolster, R-Alton; and Harry Accornero and Bob Luther, both of whom are Republicans from Laconia.

Hutchins presented letters from both the Laconia City Council and the executive board of the Lakes Region Planning Commission supporting current speed limits.

A member of the Laconia Planning Board, Hutchins also pointed out that, of the 1,500 approved residential units in Laconia, 85 percent are in The Weirs "and the reason for that is the lake."

"We need buyers who want to come buy these properties," said Hutchins, and the buyers will come, he continued, if they know they will have safe access to the lake.

Hutchins said he called members' attention to the fact that the transportation committee has no one from the Lakes Region serving on it and said the committee needs to question the credibility of those who come before it to speak on behalf of SB27.

"I feel very confident" that SB27 will not get out of the committee to the full House, said Hutchins. "I felt that the committee members were paying attention and could discern credible evidence."

He added that he was further encouraged by a reply he received to an e-mail he sent to Bettencourt.

In his April 10 answer, a copy of which Hutchins provided to The Citizen, Bettencourt concedes that, while he previously opposed speed limits, that no is longer the case.

"Since this issue directly affects an area outside of my district, I am going to be deferential to those voices who experience and live with this issue everyday. Therefore, it is my intention to oppose Senate Bill 27."
Bettencourt said feedback "indicates the limits have been a success and that the lake has not lost its fun or enjoyment. It is also clear that the speed limits have not stopped ANYONE from boating. In fact, they have instilled and reinforced a sense of proper behavior on our state's most important and well-known waterway."

[lawn psycho]

If SB-27 does not pass, does WinnFlabs think the issue will be dead?

Also, in the article posted by Rusty he fails to point out that some legislators testified in support of the bill.

I've gone to about 10 public hearings combined between Concord and Disgusta. If anyone thinks the sign-in log is the tell-tale of the constituency then we're all in trouble.

We really don't know how this vote is going to go and for Hutchins to say otherwise is an optimistic WAG. I think it's a huge political mistake for WinnFlabs to oppose SB-27. Kinda like taking points off the board after kicking a FG to try for a TD and then fumbling the next snap.

The claims made by WinnFlabs are just over the top absurd.

Unfortunately the boating community is a relatively small percentage so you'll have people who know nothing about boating chiming in. You can tell by reading some of the comments. This is something WinnFlabs gets a tactical advantage and they don't have to even work to gain it.

According to WinnFlabs, prior to the speed limit everyone was driving around at WOT and people were staying off the water because of speeding boats. Now it's all song birds and canoes. Of course we all know that's not the truth.

I can respect people's opinion but the exaggerations and distortion added to statements used by BI, APS and others is where they lose credibility IMO. You'd think I've never driven a boat on Winni and because they say something that it just "must be so." I can see with my own eyes thank you.

In the end, WinnFlabs has not ONE piece of evidence that the SL improves safety for ANYONE. Will be an interesting vote nonetheless.

[Rusty]

You know what’s funny psycho? SB-27 was originated by a young immature dreamer, and when he said at the meeting; "I just saw it as not only crushing my dream, but crushing the dreams of other kids growing up”, that pretty much summed it up for why this bill was originated (and why it will be defeated). His need and dreams for speed was the only thing behind this bill and all his followers drank the Kool Aid. He bought himself a “Thunder Boat” and come hell or high water he is going to see how fast he can go and everyone else better get out of his way. That is immature in my book.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Rusty

You know what’s funny psycho? SB-27 was originated by a young immature dreamer, and when he said at the meeting; "I just saw it as not only crushing my dream, but crushing the dreams of other kids growing up”, that pretty much summed it up for why this bill was originated (and why it will be defeated). His need and dreams for speed was the only thing behind this bill and all his followers drank the Kool Aid. He bought himself a “Thunder Boat” and come hell or high water he is going to see how fast he can go and everyone else better get out of his way. That is immature in my book.

While I am for SB-27, I do find that article painted Scott in the worst possible light. If the whole "dreams" pitch was truly his it was not the best pitch to put out there in the news...

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by codeman671

While I am for SB-27, I do find that article painted Scott in the worst possible light. If the whole "dreams" pitch was truly his it was not the best pitch to put out there in the news...

You are so right codeman671. I wonder if he cried at the meeting?

Just curious that's all.

[Bear Islander]

I consider Scott to be a friend. I have worked with him on other legislation. He believes in what he is fighting for, and he is doing it in an honorable way. I also think the compromise he wants for the broads is reasonable.

It is unfortunate that a great many responsible boaters have been inconvenienced by speed limits on Winni. I wish there were a way to allow responsible performance boaters to continue to use they lake in the way they once did.

However there is an old saying that you can't make an omelet, without breaking eggs. At the end of the day, I support speed limits and he does not.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Rusty

You know what’s funny psycho? SB-27 was originated by a young immature dreamer, and when he said at the meeting; "I just saw it as not only crushing my dream, but crushing the dreams of other kids growing up”, that pretty much summed it up for why this bill was originated (and why it will be defeated). His need and dreams for speed was the only thing behind this bill and all his followers drank the Kool Aid. He bought himself a “Thunder Boat” and come hell or high water he is going to see how fast he can go and everyone else better get out of his way. That is immature in my book.

Rusty, you seem to have some kind of hatred embedded in your post. I put this in perspective. If you think a driver going 55 MPH on Lake Winni in a nice boat is the anti-Christ than why do you own a lake front business?

Many of these boats were lawfully purchased at NH boat dealers. They don't pose anywhere near the threat that they've been portrayed to do.

If you want to ride slow in your boat then do so. There is so much water on the lake that there's room for everyone to operate. It's worked for a long time that way on the lake. The speed limit is propagated by a very narrow minded group. They've lost objectivity. The SL does nothing for safety and is why WinnFlabs has to repeatedly resort to embellishments of claims.

Again, we don't know how the vote will go. You and I can guess but weird stuff happens when votes get to the floor. I hope it passes. If not, I suspect we'll go through it all over again. What we need is the "right" person to get cited for a speedking violation It's not the slam dunk that traffic tickets are and could easily be contested.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Rusty, you seem to have some kind of hatred embedded in your post. I put this in perspective. If you think a driver going 55 MPH on Lake Winni in a nice boat is the anti-Christ than why do you own a lake front business?

Many of these boats were lawfully purchased at NH boat dealers. They don't pose anywhere near the threat that they've been portrayed to do.

If you want to ride slow in your boat then do so. There is so much water on the lake that there's room for everyone to operate. It's worked for a long time that way on the lake. The speed limit is propagated by a very narrow minded group. They've lost objectivity. The SL does nothing for safety and is why WinnFlabs has to repeatedly resort to embellishments of claims.

Again, we don't know how the vote will go. You and I can guess but weird stuff happens when votes get to the floor. I hope it passes. If not, I suspect we'll go through it all over again. What we need is the "right" person to get cited for a speedking violation It's not the slam dunk that traffic tickets are and could easily be contested.

I don’t have hatred for anyone. I don’t particularly care for hypocrites, but I don’t hate them.
I’ll just leave it at that.

I will say one thing though, it’s time for you to put your Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum away and try to enjoy what the state of NH has to offer you. I love this state and when people who don’t live here constantly think they know what’s best for us, it bothers the H*** out of me; and I’ll voice my opinion about that every chance I get.

[Dhuberty24]

what business does rusty own?

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Dhuberty24

what business does rusty own?

Since he could care less about those from out of town let him tell you. It was already revealed (I think in this thread actually). We'll see if he is willing to put his money where his mouth is.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Rusty

I don’t have hatred for anyone. I don’t particularly care for hypocrites, but I don’t hate them.
I’ll just leave it at that.

I will say one thing though, it’s time for you to put your Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum away and try to enjoy what the state of NH has to offer you. I love this state and when people who don’t live here constantly think they know what’s best for us, it bothers the H*** out of me; and I’ll voice my opinion about that every chance I get.

First, since Dirty Harry is protecting my herd of green friends he upgraded and that's a S&W 0.500 you're looking at That's some precious stuff he's watching over....

Second, be careful about painting with a broad brush as some of us have some pretty deep NH ties. Last time I checked my boat also has a NH registration which means my boat is slipped and stored in NH. So try as you might, I have a vested interest in NH boating. Surprise, suprise

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Rusty

I don’t have hatred for anyone. I don’t particularly care for hypocrites, but I don’t hate them.
I’ll just leave it at that.

I will say one thing though, it’s time for you to put your Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum away and try to enjoy what the state of NH has to offer you. I love this state and when people who don’t live here constantly think they know what’s best for us, it bothers the H*** out of me; and I’ll voice my opinion about that every chance I get.

Rusty, without people from out of state, we would not have much of an economy in NH.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Rusty, without people from out of state, we would not have much of an economy in NH.

ViaBene,

May I ask where I said I didn't welcome out of state visitors?


Thank you,
Rusty

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Rusty

ViaBene,

May I ask where I said I didn't welcome out of state visitors?


Thank you,
Rusty

I am not going to argue semantics with you (or argue period), but when you say this:

I love this state and when people who don’t live here constantly think they know what’s best for us, it bothers the H*** out of me

regarding people from out of state (many who pay more in taxes here than I do), it is not very welcoming. Everyone that visits and supports our economy, or owns property and cannot vote, has the right to express their opinion on what we should do in NH.

The residents of NH reserve the right to listen or not.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Everyone that visits and supports our economy, or owns property and cannot vote, has the right to express their opinion on what we should do in NH.

The residents of NH reserve the right to listen or not.

You're right VitaBene, but I also have the right to express my disaproval of their opinion without you or anyone else saying I don't welcome visitors to NH.

If you don't want to argue with me or anyone else in this thread then maybe you shouldn't say anything. You can't have it all your way without a response from me or anyone else.

[jrc]

Rusty has a screen name the same a lakefront business owner's real first name. I don't remember either screen-name Rusty or the webmaster conforming that Rusty is Rusty.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by jrc

Rusty has a screen name the same a lakefront business owner's real first name. I don't remember either screen-name Rusty or the webmaster conforming that Rusty is Rusty.

Why the fascination with who I am or what business/es I have. Does it make me a better or worse forum member?

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by jrc

Rusty has a screen name the same a lakefront business owner's real first name. I don't remember either screen-name Rusty or the webmaster conforming that Rusty is Rusty.

If this Rusty is that Rusty, then it would be rather foolish for this Rusty to be trashing out of staters as a large volume of patrons to his establishments are tourists our non-residents.

I also recall ties from one of these establishments to a well known tradgedy on the lake.

Same Rusty? If so I would be careful of the darts I throw...

[jrc]

I'm not fascinated by who you are, I'm just commenting on Dhuberty24 questions.

It is interesting that you either are "that" Rusty and willing to risk all you built just to bust balls on this forum. Or, you are not "that" Rusty but are willing to let others think you are, I guess to trade on his name.

Either choice is sad.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by jrc

I'm not fascinated by who you are, I'm just commenting on Dhuberty24 questions.

It is interesting that you either are "that" Rusty and willing to risk all you built just to bust balls on this forum. Or, you are not "that" Rusty but are willing to let others think you are, I guess to trade on his name.

Either choice is sad.

How am I busting balls in this forum. I’m for the speed limit and you and others aren’t. Why am I such a bad person because I have different opinions than someone.

I have never advertised any business on this website, or forum. I like the name Rusty so I picked it for a forum user name. I am not trying to pretend to be anyone other than a forum member.

What do you want my forum name to be so that it doesn’t upset you so much?

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Rusty

How am I busting balls in this forum. I’m for the speed limit and you and others aren’t. Why am I such a bad person because I have different opinions than someone.

I have never advertised any business on this website, or forum. I like the name Rusty so I picked it for a forum user name. I am not trying to pretend to be anyone other than a forum member.

What do you want my forum name to be so that it doesn’t upset you so much?

Are you the business owner or not? Simple question.

You've been so quick to dismiss any opinion from others (ie, people who don't live in NH) and now you get miffed when called on it? Isn't that saying that their opinion doesn't count? You've typed those words multiple times too. Mouth = money?