Shopping for new car time, opinions on dealerships wanted.

jrc · 05-13-2011, 09:39 AM

It is interesting to have "new" topic on the forum, even if only tangentally lake related.

Like most people, I've purchased new and used cars, it's a negotiation just like any other major purchase. The salesman is a professional negotiator, and usually the buyer isn't. So you, the buyer, needs to do whatever you can do to level the playing field.

Get educated. All negotiations are based on deception. The less you know the easier it is to pay too much. I think it is silly to call negotiating lying.

Buying a car is like playing poker, if you could see all your opponents cards, you could always place the proper bet. But you can't see all his cards, so why would you show him all yours?

His advantage is that he knows more than you, your advantage is that he needs to sell or he doesn't eat. Usually you can survive without a new car, he can't survive without selling.

Grady223 · 05-13-2011, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrc

It is interesting to have "new" topic on the forum, even if only tangentally lake related.

Like most people, I've purchased new and used cars, it's a negotiation just like any other major purchase. The salesman is a professional negotiator, and usually the buyer isn't. So you, the buyer, needs to do whatever you can do to level the playing field.

Get educated. All negotiations are based on deception. The less you know the easier it is to pay too much. I think it is silly to call negotiating lying.

Buying a car is like playing poker, if you could see all your opponents cards, you could always place the proper bet. But you can't see all his cards, so why would you show him all yours?

His advantage is that he knows more than you, your advantage is that he needs to sell or he doesn't eat. Usually you can survive without a new car, he can't survive without selling.

I have been very successful on new cars using 2 of Consumer Reports' products:
Bottom Line Price Report - go in give them your price and walk out if they don't match it
Build & Buy Service - build you car on line, local dealers submit bids to you. Bought my son a Honda Fit a couple months ago and got it for $400 less than I would have been willing to pay based on the Bottom Line Price Report.

ITD · 05-13-2011, 11:55 AM

I hate buying cars. I hate salesmen who refer to a potential purchase as your "investment". I have no qualms about walking out on a salesman. Every new car I've purchased (last one in 2008) had the salesman needing approval from the manager before a deal could be done. Dealerships' service departments continually disappoint me. I find it very hard to believe that a dealership can survive on a few hundred above invoice. I take consumer reports with a grain of salt.

Wow, that was a pretty negative post I just wrote, what was the original question???

SIKSUKR · 05-13-2011, 02:29 PM

I don't understand sa being upset about not telling the salesman you want to trade before negotiating.What's the big deal?Isn't the trade in worth the same before and after you negotiate?Give him the price you would have plugged into the deal in the first place.If that is a problem after the fact then the salesman was the one being deceiptfull.

sa,please feel free to correct me but why does it matter when a trade in is disclosed?

Grady223 · 05-13-2011, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I don't understand sa being upset about not telling the salesman you want to trade before negotiating.What's the big deal?Isn't the trade in worth the same before and after you negotiate?Give him the price you would have plugged into the deal in the first place.If that is a problem after the fact then the salesman was the one being deceiptfull.

sa,please feel free to correct me but why does it matter when a trade in is disclosed?

You never know what price you get for the car or the trade. I find negotiating them each separately gets you the best deal. Plus I usually sell the "trade" on my own.

TheProfessor · 05-13-2011, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grady223

You never know what price you get for the car or the trade. I find negotiating them each separately gets you the best deal. Plus I usually sell the "trade" on my own.

This is basically what I stated above. Two distinct issues and prices.

But it looks like some above jumped to the conclusion that this is a lie to the salesman/woman. And I was quoting Consumer Reports. Consumer Reports advises to do this.

Lucy Goose · 05-15-2011, 10:09 AM

Thank you all for your help and advice. We bought a car on Friday through some advice of a fellow forum member at Lovering Volvo in Meredith. A nice Mitsubishi Galant 2009 like brand new with only 12k on it and a 5/60 warranty remaining. They were very nice and speedy as well. Should be a good commuter car with fairly good gas mileage. Better than our caddy was getting which we got from Banks. Died with only 86000 on it. We went down there but they didn't want to offer anything up for it and didn't have much in the lot. We weren't real impressed with them. Too bad, my father went to them for years, but every sales person is different.

Argie's Wife · 05-15-2011, 11:48 AM

Congrats on the new ride!

That's a sweet looking ride.... I hope you got a red one. (Red = goes faster).

By the way, when I'm ready for a new/used car, I can find all this info, including how to honestly deal with the sales-end of the process on www.cars.com. When I'm not in the market, I love listening to Car Talk - it's almost as much fun as this thread!

BroadHopper · 05-15-2011, 02:10 PM

EBay is a great place to pick up used autos and boats. When the economy was sour a couple of years ago, dealers were auctioning off brand new cars and trucks!

My GF bought a used 2000 Mercedes SL convertible with only 60K miles on it for half the NADA price. We had to drive to Canada to get it. Been two years with no problems.

I bought a 2001 Jeep Cherokee with only 60K for only 9K. Had it for year with no problems. Funny thing with this purchase, the jeep was located in Laconia!

Four years ago I bought a 1988 Formula F223 LS at a third of the NADA price. The 9 hour drive to Maryland wasn't bad. I had a chance to boat the Potomac River. Again, no problem with the boat.

With EBay, you have to be patient, know the value of you purchase, srt a limit on how much you want to bid. EBay and Paypal will guarantee your purchase. There are some sweet deals out there!

jmen24 · 05-17-2011, 02:29 PM

OK, I will admit that I am pressed for time and was not able to read through all the posts above, so forgive me if this question has been answered above.

I just came back from a vacation in Florida, while down there I spent a small amount of time researching new vehicle prices. Next year, my lease is up on my truck and will be sending it back. I am looking to get back into a full size 4-door truck. Mainly the F-150 or 250. I have a year to figure that out, as well a another week a vaction next May (my lease turn in is in May 2012 as well).

While reviewing pricing on the exact same option vehicle in Florida as the one I found in NH, I noticed that the advertised price (from multiple dealerships, without the down payment fine print) started at 10K less than the starting price in NH. And was over 8K less than the negotiated price that a friend just made on the same model and featured truck.

The question is, is there something that I am not aware of that is causing this price difference? If not, than a purchase would be made during the next vacation and then either driven back or delivery would be arranged. I read through the fine print multiple times and contacted one dealer directly and got the same price verification. These are 2011 F-150 Lariat model trucks, new. The one in Florida actually had a nicer wheel package, as well as power running boards to boot (not that the power running boards are something I am looking for and would probably have removed)

Thanks in advance for the help.

ishoot308 · 05-17-2011, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmen24

OK, I will admit that I am pressed for time and was not able to read through all the posts above, so forgive me if this question has been answered above.

I just came back from a vacation in Florida, while down there I spent a small amount of time researching new vehicle prices. Next year, my lease is up on my truck and will be sending it back. I am looking to get back into a full size 4-door truck. Mainly the F-150 or 250. I have a year to figure that out, as well a another week a vaction next May (my lease turn in is in May 2012 as well).

While reviewing pricing on the exact same option vehicle in Florida as the one I found in NH, I noticed that the advertised price (from multiple dealerships, without the down payment fine print) started at 10K less than the starting price in NH. And was over 8K less than the negotiated price that a friend just made on the same model and featured truck.

The question is, is there something that I am not aware of that is causing this price difference? If not, than a purchase would be made during the next vacation and then either driven back or delivery would be arranged. I read through the fine print multiple times and contacted one dealer directly and got the same price verification. These are 2011 F-150 Lariat model trucks, new. The one in Florida actually had a nicer wheel package, as well as power running boards to boot (not that the power running boards are something I am looking for and would probably have removed)

Thanks in advance for the help.

Don't forget to add in Florida sales tax and whatever other fees never noted in price quotes.

jmen24 · 05-17-2011, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Don't forget to add in Florida sales tax and whatever other fees never noted in price quotes.

OK, that would make sense, but are we (as NH residents) required to pay sales tax in another state for a large ticket purchase?

I didn't think we had too, but then again this is new to me and that was something I was told.

I do understand that some taxes and fees are associated and not included in the advertised vehicle price, but that should be close (within a 1K) to a wash from state to state.

I purchase cabinet grade materials for my custom cabinetry and furniture side business, in Vermont (the closest location to me for quality furniture grade lumber), but because my projects are in NH, I do not pay VT Sales tax. Other VT suppliers are the same way for windows and doors, purchases made for my primary construction job. I am the buyer and the payer so I review all statements prior to cutting a check.

You may be right on that Dan, that would quantify the difference in sticker price.

ishoot308 · 05-17-2011, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmen24

OK, that would make sense, but are we (as NH residents) required to pay sales tax in another state for a large ticket purchase?

I didn't think we had too, but then again this is new to me and that was something I was told.

I do understand that some taxes and fees are associated and not included in the advertised vehicle price, but that should be close (within a 1K) to a wash from state to state.

I purchase cabinet grade materials for my custom cabinetry and furniture side business, in Vermont (the closest location to me for quality furniture grade lumber), but because my projects are in NH, I do not pay VT Sales tax. Other VT suppliers are the same way for windows and doors, purchases made for my primary construction job. I am the buyer and the payer so I review all statements prior to cutting a check.

You may be right on that Dan, that would quantify the difference in sticker price.

If they deliver the car to you in NH you will not pay taxes. If you take possession of it in Florida you will pay tax on it I believe. I just went through this as I purchased a new vehicle on line from a Pennsylvania dealership about two weeks ago. They delivered it to my home in NH and all was good, no tax paid...

Dan

tis · 05-17-2011, 04:05 PM

We bought and took possession of a car in Fl., having 20 day plates on it, then had it shipped to NH and registered it here. We didn't pay the sales tax.

jrc · 05-17-2011, 04:05 PM

I bought at couple of cars in Massachusettes over the years and picked them up at the dealer in Mass, never paid a nickel in Mass sales tax. I think where you register the car determines the tax not where you pick it up.

ishoot308 · 05-17-2011, 04:18 PM

Funny thing I just purchased a vehicle in NH for my business office in Maryland. Had to sign a paper from dealer saying I was registering it in NH. Drove it down to MD with NH plates and will re-register next year in MD and pay whatever tax is due....

jrc · 05-17-2011, 11:03 PM

nothing is ever simple

jmen24 · 05-18-2011, 07:58 AM

Thanks all for the information. Sounds like some money can be saved but I will ask the proper questions before heading down to do some shopping.

05-13-2011, 02:29 PM	#4
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	Am I missing something? I don't understand sa being upset about not telling the salesman you want to trade before negotiating.What's the big deal?Isn't the trade in worth the same before and after you negotiate?Give him the price you would have plugged into the deal in the first place.If that is a problem after the fact then the salesman was the one being deceiptfull. sa,please feel free to correct me but why does it matter when a trade in is disclosed? __________________ SIKSUKR

05-15-2011, 02:10 PM	#9
BroadHopper Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 5,591 Thanks: 3,232 Thanked 1,107 Times in 797 Posts	EBay EBay is a great place to pick up used autos and boats. When the economy was sour a couple of years ago, dealers were auctioning off brand new cars and trucks! My GF bought a used 2000 Mercedes SL convertible with only 60K miles on it for half the NADA price. We had to drive to Canada to get it. Been two years with no problems. I bought a 2001 Jeep Cherokee with only 60K for only 9K. Had it for year with no problems. Funny thing with this purchase, the jeep was located in Laconia! Four years ago I bought a 1988 Formula F223 LS at a third of the NADA price. The 9 hour drive to Maryland wasn't bad. I had a chance to boat the Potomac River. Again, no problem with the boat. With EBay, you have to be patient, know the value of you purchase, srt a limit on how much you want to bid. EBay and Paypal will guarantee your purchase. There are some sweet deals out there! __________________ Someday may never be an actual day.

05-13-2011, 09:39 AM	#1
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	It is interesting to have "new" topic on the forum, even if only tangentally lake related. Like most people, I've purchased new and used cars, it's a negotiation just like any other major purchase. The salesman is a professional negotiator, and usually the buyer isn't. So you, the buyer, needs to do whatever you can do to level the playing field. Get educated. All negotiations are based on deception. The less you know the easier it is to pay too much. I think it is silly to call negotiating lying. Buying a car is like playing poker, if you could see all your opponents cards, you could always place the proper bet. But you can't see all his cards, so why would you show him all yours? His advantage is that he knows more than you, your advantage is that he needs to sell or he doesn't eat. Usually you can survive without a new car, he can't survive without selling.

05-13-2011, 11:55 AM	#3
ITD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 2,936 Thanks: 478 Thanked 695 Times in 390 Posts	I hate buying cars. I hate salesmen who refer to a potential purchase as your "investment". I have no qualms about walking out on a salesman. Every new car I've purchased (last one in 2008) had the salesman needing approval from the manager before a deal could be done. Dealerships' service departments continually disappoint me. I find it very hard to believe that a dealership can survive on a few hundred above invoice. I take consumer reports with a grain of salt. Wow, that was a pretty negative post I just wrote, what was the original question???

05-15-2011, 10:09 AM	#7
Lucy Goose Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 228 Thanks: 29 Thanked 108 Times in 29 Posts	Thank you all for your help and advice. We bought a car on Friday through some advice of a fellow forum member at Lovering Volvo in Meredith. A nice Mitsubishi Galant 2009 like brand new with only 12k on it and a 5/60 warranty remaining. They were very nice and speedy as well. Should be a good commuter car with fairly good gas mileage. Better than our caddy was getting which we got from Banks. Died with only 86000 on it. We went down there but they didn't want to offer anything up for it and didn't have much in the lot. We weren't real impressed with them. Too bad, my father went to them for years, but every sales person is different.

05-15-2011, 11:48 AM	#8
Argie's Wife Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Alton Posts: 1,908 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 533 Thanked 579 Times in 260 Posts	Congrats on the new ride! That's a sweet looking ride.... I hope you got a red one. (Red = goes faster). By the way, when I'm ready for a new/used car, I can find all this info, including how to honestly deal with the sales-end of the process on www.cars.com. When I'm not in the market, I love listening to Car Talk - it's almost as much fun as this thread!

05-17-2011, 02:29 PM	#10
jmen24 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,139 Thanks: 223 Thanked 319 Times in 181 Posts	OK, I will admit that I am pressed for time and was not able to read through all the posts above, so forgive me if this question has been answered above. I just came back from a vacation in Florida, while down there I spent a small amount of time researching new vehicle prices. Next year, my lease is up on my truck and will be sending it back. I am looking to get back into a full size 4-door truck. Mainly the F-150 or 250. I have a year to figure that out, as well a another week a vaction next May (my lease turn in is in May 2012 as well). While reviewing pricing on the exact same option vehicle in Florida as the one I found in NH, I noticed that the advertised price (from multiple dealerships, without the down payment fine print) started at 10K less than the starting price in NH. And was over 8K less than the negotiated price that a friend just made on the same model and featured truck. The question is, is there something that I am not aware of that is causing this price difference? If not, than a purchase would be made during the next vacation and then either driven back or delivery would be arranged. I read through the fine print multiple times and contacted one dealer directly and got the same price verification. These are 2011 F-150 Lariat model trucks, new. The one in Florida actually had a nicer wheel package, as well as power running boards to boot (not that the power running boards are something I am looking for and would probably have removed) Thanks in advance for the help.

05-17-2011, 04:05 PM	#14
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,769 Thanks: 755 Thanked 1,462 Times in 1,018 Posts	We bought and took possession of a car in Fl., having 20 day plates on it, then had it shipped to NH and registered it here. We didn't pay the sales tax.

05-17-2011, 04:18 PM	#16
ishoot308 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island Posts: 6,308 Thanks: 2,407 Thanked 5,309 Times in 2,070 Posts	Funny thing I just purchased a vehicle in NH for my business office in Maryland. Had to sign a paper from dealer saying I was registering it in NH. Drove it down to MD with NH plates and will re-register next year in MD and pay whatever tax is due....

05-17-2011, 11:03 PM	#17
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	nothing is ever simple

05-18-2011, 07:58 AM	#18
jmen24 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,139 Thanks: 223 Thanked 319 Times in 181 Posts	Thanks all for the information. Sounds like some money can be saved but I will ask the proper questions before heading down to do some shopping.