Ban kids from restaurants?

[GTO]

Didn't the old St Charles church have a separate room for kids while mass was taken place? I seem to remember it as a kid....not that I ever went in there. I'm not sure what is more obnoxious these days, kids or the adult that talks on his/her cell phone so everyone else in the place can hear also

[nj2nh]

How is a kid supposed to learn how to behave in a restaurant if they are banned from going to them. Honestly, I am having a really hard time believing anyone thinks this is a good idea. If you don't want to encounter kids, stay home or eat later when they won't be there.

Kids are people, too!

And before you jump all over me, I do agree that people should not bring children anywhere (Friendly's or the Ritz) under the following circumstances:

1. The kids are cranky because they spent all day in the water and didn't get a nap.

2. After, say, 7pm no matter how happy the kids are unless it's a quick stop at Burger King out of desperation.

3. When the kids outnumber the parents more than 4-1.

I have two boys. Both are teens. They never, ever caused a problem in a restaurant and we have taken them everywhere - including the formal dinners on a cruise, but we always went early and we never went cranky.

Don't blame the kids. Blame their parents who don't really care about their kids or the people around them. It is self-centered adults who are the problem, not their poor unfortunate children.

[TOAD]

Originally Posted by nj2nh

How is a kid supposed to learn how to behave in a restaurant if they are banned from going to them. Honestly, I am having a really hard time believing anyone thinks this is a good idea. If you don't want to encounter kids, stay home or eat later when they won't be there.

Kids are people, too!

And before you jump all over me, I do agree that people should not bring children anywhere (Friendly's or the Ritz) under the following circumstances:

1. The kids are cranky because they spent all day in the water and didn't get a nap.

2. After, say, 7pm no matter how happy the kids are unless it's a quick stop at Burger King out of desperation.

3. When the kids outnumber the parents more than 4-1.

I have two boys. Both are teens. They never, ever caused a problem in a restaurant and we have taken them everywhere - including the formal dinners on a cruise, but we always went early and we never went cranky.

Don't blame the kids. Blame their parents who don't really care about their kids or the people around them. It is self-centered adults who are the problem, not their poor unfortunate children.

I was being facetious....some of those noisy, out of control, obnoxious little kids are the movers, shakers, pilots, generals, CEOs, inventors, scientists etc of the future. Sometimes little milk-toast kids just don't measure up. Just saying. In my 62 years here on this planet I would say the I have had less than half a dozen meals with compromised enjoyment because of overactive kids. I can handle that...can't you?

[kauriel]

This discussion has been very helpful because we had only been to canoe once (for a function) and didn't notice they had an adult only dining room. We had been meaning to go back but I think we may have just found a new reason to go!

As a patron, I like the idea of kid-free restaurants or at least adult only zones because not all children are well-behaved and their parents tend to seem oblivious! I would guess some business owners and wait staff might also like the idea given that it seems kids meals tend to be fairly cheap meaning lower revenue per meal/seat and potentially lower tips if you rely on the 15 or 20% rule.

For any restaurant owners considering a ban: you have my support!

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by nj2nh

How is a kid supposed to learn how to behave in a restaurant if they are banned from going to them. Honestly, I am having a really hard time believing anyone thinks this is a good idea. If you don't want to encounter kids, stay home or eat later when they won't be there.

Kids are people, too!

And before you jump all over me, I do agree that people should not bring children anywhere (Friendly's or the Ritz) under the following circumstances:

1. The kids are cranky because they spent all day in the water and didn't get a nap.

2. After, say, 7pm no matter how happy the kids are unless it's a quick stop at Burger King out of desperation.

3. When the kids outnumber the parents more than 4-1.

I have two boys. Both are teens. They never, ever caused a problem in a restaurant and we have taken them everywhere - including the formal dinners on a cruise, but we always went early and we never went cranky.

Don't blame the kids. Blame their parents who don't really care about their kids or the people around them. It is self-centered adults who are the problem, not their poor unfortunate children.

Folks, this is a family vacation destination. Emphasis on FAMILY! Kids are people too. Honestly, in all the times we have gone out to eat up here, I can't recall having a bad experience because of somebody else's kids. Maybe it's because I'm more laid back when I'm here...maybe because of it I'm just more tolerant then I was way back when. I certainly don't appreciate a screaming demon at the next table when we're out for a nice quiet dinner..but how often does that really happen? Not enough in my experience to make a rule to ban all kids from a restaurant. If there is an out of control kid near you at a restaurant, just call the manager over and ask to be moved...I doubt that such a request would be denied.
Otherwise, just lighten up a bit and enjoy...isn't that what we all want?

[spider22]

Originally Posted by nj2nh

How is a kid supposed to learn how to behave in a restaurant if they are banned from going to them. Honestly, I am having a really hard time believing anyone thinks this is a good idea. If you don't want to encounter kids, stay home or eat later when they won't be there.

Kids are people, too!

And before you jump all over me, I do agree that people should not bring children anywhere (Friendly's or the Ritz) under the following circumstances:

1. The kids are cranky because they spent all day in the water and didn't get a nap.

2. After, say, 7pm no matter how happy the kids are unless it's a quick stop at Burger King out of desperation.

3. When the kids outnumber the parents more than 4-1.

I have two boys. Both are teens. They never, ever caused a problem in a restaurant and we have taken them everywhere - including the formal dinners on a cruise, but we always went early and we never went cranky.

Don't blame the kids. Blame their parents who don't really care about their kids or the people around them. It is self-centered adults who are the problem, not their poor unfortunate children.

I agree with you on this and I have seen stuff like this in the past. Our youngest of 4 kids is almost 14 now but I am sure that 10-13 years ago there the parents vacationing next to us must have thought we were the meanest parents in the world when we were getting our kids ready for bed at 9:00 and they were just getting ready to take their kids of roughly the same age to Funspot or some other activity. But by the middle of the week when we were still enjoying time in the middle of the day with our children because they were happy those parents were dealing with crabby kids who would just break out crying for no reason. I heard several times from those parents say "why are you so crabby today" to their young children. I am not saying that you should not loosen up a little on vacation but when you have young kids that are out all day in the sun and in the water and then you let them stay up until midnight 3 or 4 nights in a row please don't wonder why they are so crabby in a restaurant or any other place.

[dpg]

Can someone start a poll? (I don't know how too) So we can vote and all move on...

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by dpg

Can someone start a poll? (I don't know how too) So we can vote and all move on...

Here it is http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=12702

[trfour]

Even with todays economy, I couldn't imagine any respectable restaurant wanting to ban any of us kids.

Course #1, we were all taught from a very young age, and by the way born so too, that and to behave especially around the dinner table.

Course#2, I have personally enjoyed many delicious menus here in the Lakes Region, and around the world... You can check my record here, leave the belly!



Sides, have you ever tried eating with a fat lip?
Only kidding...


Here's a picture taken by Life Magazine back in 1952 when myfamily enjoyed lunch at the very exclusive Columbia Yacht Club in Philadelphia, PA. Mom And Dad and nine very well behaved children, at the time...
Terry
____________________________

Add another picture with some Asian flair...
After lunch, Wok'ing it off!

[WakeboardMom]

Funniest thing ever...(or not)....I was in El Mariachi in Moultonborough on Friday night with my husband. We walked in at 8:40...kinda late if you have kids. We sat at the bar, and I could see two tables in the corner that he couldn't see.

I said to him, "I don't know if those two tables are together, but if they're not, there's a lady being a really good sport." There was a young(er) couple sitting at a table for four with their three kids, so it was a little bit crowded, but the kids were small. They were small in stature because they were young in age. There were three kids ages about 2.5 or so to maybe 7. The youngest was a very cute little boy.

Little boy was not falling asleep at 8:45. Instead he was standing on his chair, making friends with the folks at the next table, who were four adults between the ages of thirty and fifty-ish. I thought those folks were being good sports, smiling at the little boy and not getting visibly annoyed.

10 or 15 minutes later that wasn't the case. The older folks weren't being mean, but they were no longer smiling at the little boy, instead they were chatting and trying their best to ignore him. At some point, the dad put the little boy on his lap and did his best to keep the little boy amused and away from the other diners; at that point it was after 9 pm.

This little vignette kind of illustrates why some restaurants might impose a ban on kids. I love kids; I had 4 and now I'm on to grandchildren. But at 8:30 - 9:00 on a Friday night, I'm looking to wind down from my crazy week. LOL...you'll find me at the bar.

[trfour]

Who don't have a clue how to raise their children in an more appropriate way of, ( first of all ).

# 1. Manners, around the dinner table!

# 2. How to coexist in an appropriate manner away from home!

# 3. So as to shine a light in and on a different direction!

The Hope's in our lives are so very much with us...

Another Life Magazine photo that very clearly shows where I am from, and continue to be TODAY!
Terry

[Pineedles]

From trfour's picture, I notice no elbows on the table, except for the very youngst one. Wow, does that bring back memories. How many parents enforce that rule today?

[Jonas Pilot]

"Keep your elbows off the table, this is not a horse's stable".

[SIKSUKR]

And keep your hands in your lap or they will get a rulers tap.

[Grant]

If the kids are bad enough to be banned, then the parents are also.

My wife and I have raised four kids (now ages 22, 20, 20 & 16), and NEVER had an issue with behavior in an eating establishment -- whether is was Burger King or a fine restaurant. In fact, I can remember MANY times when we had all four out -- at very young ages -- and were approached by patrons who commented about how well behaved the children were.

The secret? There isn't one. It's called discipline. Respect. Instilling it in children is a primary responsibility of parenting. If you've failed on that front, then leave the kids at home when you go out to eat. Same with air travel, movie theatres, malls, libraries, concerts, etc.

Caveat: I do remember one Lake-related incident with my kids. We took them all on the Mount Washington for the long cruise. One of my twin daughters (probably 2 or 3 at the time) was definitely in a mood that day, and threw a full-blown, lying-on-the-deck-kicking, red-faced tantrum. I forget how we squelched it, but I remember thinking about telling her that I would toss her in the Lake if she didn't stop.

A photo from that fateful day...still cracks me up.

[sa meredith]

Grant...not really sure how to take your post...other than you standing up, taking a great big bow, and saying, "my wife and I got it right!"
Way to pat yourself on the back.
Telling people who may have fussy, fidgety, or possibly hyper-active kids, that they have failed??!! Shame on you.
Who appointed you to set the standard? Some may say 4 young children (say, 11 and under) sitting quietly, patienly, and calmly at a table, together, for any period of time, is indeed "abnormal".
As kids (3 of us) we were the "abnormal" ones, as mom ruled with an iron fist when we got home (yes, it means what it means) so we were quiet, out of fear ...but I'm quite certain those are no longer excepted methods of raising children.
Seriously, children are children...sometimes, as like adults, they get into foul moods, and don't know what to do with the emotion.
Maybe you didn't mean to sound harsh, and a bit snobby with your post...but it reads that way.
By the way...your daughter pulled a freak show on a public boat, in front strangers??? Her parents must be complete failures.

[Grant]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Grant...not really sure how to take your post...other than you standing up, taking a great big bow, and saying, "my wife and I got it right!"
Way to pat yourself on the back.
Telling people who may have fussy, fidgety, or possibly hyper-active kids, that they have failed??!! Shame on you.
Who appointed you to set the standard? Some may say 4 young children (say, 11 and under) sitting quietly, patienly, and calmly at a table, together, for any period of time, is indeed "abnormal".
As kids (3 of us) we were the "abnormal" ones, as mom ruled with an iron fist when we got home (yes, it means what it means) so we were quiet, out of fear ...but I'm quite certain those are no longer excepted methods of raising children.
Seriously, children are children...sometimes, as like adults, they get into foul moods, and don't know what to do with the emotion.
Maybe you didn't mean to sound harsh, and a bit snobby with your post...but it reads that way.
By the way...your daughter pulled a freak show on a public boat, in front strangers??? Her parents must be complete failures.

Ha! Setting the standard? Hardly. Patting myself on the back? Not quite. Just pointing out that it's not all that hard. As a parent, I'm as flawed as anyone...trust me. There's no handbook, and if there were, I wouldn't have read it. And, yes, children are children -- and to expect them to act otherwise is a waste of time. But to say that a large (and growing) percentage of parents today fall short when it comes to instilling the most basic sense of respect in their kids is not a stretch. Take a look around. Ask any teacher.

The basic premise of the thread -- banning kids from restaurants -- is patently absurd. But that point was raised for a reason. Think about it.

And the anecdote about the tantrum on the Mount? Merely an illustration that even a self-congratulatory snob like myself, who's raised potentially abnormal, Stepford-zombie offspring, has had a kid melt down. (Also an attempt to keep the post Lake-oriented, in keeping with Forum protocol.) And it wasn't the only time...far from it. My point: Incidents involving obnoxious, un-disciplined kids are way more prevalent today...and it's more often than not a reflection of lax parenting (AKA the "no longer excepted [sic] methods"). Your mileage may vary.

So, call me old school. Opinionated. I won't deny it, and don't mean to hold myself up as a model. As a kid, I was far from angelic, but I am grateful to my parents for not only instilling a real sense of discipline and respect in us, but giving us the latitude to make (and learn from) our own mistakes along the way. I've tried to do the same with my own kids.

[upthesaukee]

When our kids were young, we would come up to the lake, and after a day on the boat, Mom would say let's go out to eat. So it was off to the Schooner in Lakeport (now Avery's), Hickory Stick, Cider Press, Woodshed, etc.. The kids (girl and boy) were usually pretty good. Every once in a while, a little sidewards kick of a leg, or an "inadvertent" poke with an elbow would elicit that "look from Dad" or a "knock it off from Mom".

Most trying time was at the Schooner. My parents knew the owner (Roland and his wife, whose name escapes me at the moment). Roland would see we were there and come out and take the kids into the kitchen. After a while, the kids would come out followed shortly by our meal. Shortly thereafter, it was "eat your supper or no dessert". Come to find out, Roland used to feed the kids in the kitchen, and they would come out stuffed. Thanks Roland.

Maybe the whole idea is being looked at wrong. Don't ban kids, they don't know any better. Ban the parents who don't care who their kids are bothering other diners!

While hanging with friends yesterday, we were reminded of a stay at the Sagamore in Lake George. Their very fine dining restaurant did not allow children under the age of 12 in it, and the beautiful sitting area and lounge off the lobby, over looking the lake, had a sign stating "Well behaved children only". Maybe this is a way to go.

[Pineedles]

Good for you Grant! Gotta say that you got it right 110%. Unfortunately, "It's all about the children" today. I think sa is very upset about the Red Sox, and he is mad at the world today.

[TOAD]

Originally Posted by Grant

The secret? There isn't one. It's called discipline. Respect. Instilling it in children is a primary responsibility of parenting. If you've failed on that front, then leave the kids at home when you go out to eat.

A photo from that fateful day...still cracks me up.

And that picture put a big smile on my face!

[SAMIAM]

I'd say Grant got it right and you do deserve a pat on the back for teaching your kids that there are consequences for their actions.
Many of today's parents actually reward their kids with loving attention after they have done something bad......thinking they can reason with them as if they were an adults. They soon realize that acting up gets them a lot of great face time with mom or dad......they aren't stupid.
I don't suggest that you beat your kid with a baseball bat, but spankings did the trick for 800 years.
Fear is not a bad emotion....it keeps even us adults out of trouble.

[sa meredith]

Wow...my point is being missed by quite a bit...
I certainly agree that far too many parents have failed to instill respect, and the need to act appropriatly in public, in young children. Some actually just let the kids do their own thing and ignore.
However...
I thought it strange that someone would post that they "NEVER had a issue with behavior..." and that "...if you've failed at that, leave the kids at home". Just a terrible thing to write. Grant himself said his kid pulled a side way nutty on the Mount (which is weird, he said he never had a single incident...maybe his child used their mulligan?)
My point is simply this...many well behaved, well mannered children, have their off day. They're kids! Who knows what you're going to get from day to day? To see a child act up in a restaraunt, and think their parents have "failed" at teaching discipline, is bit too judgemental for me. At times, kids will be kids. But I got the feeling that what Grant was saying, was..."well, not MY kids. We did it right" ...and thought that a bit weird.
That's all.
As for other remarks...yep, the Sox have me in wonderful frame of mind. ARE...YOU...FREAKIN'...KIDDING...ME???!!!

And I agree about kids needing a good smack from time to time. We got them regularly...and, as a result learned ma and dad meant business, when they told us to smarten up.
I eat at the VK regularly, because they don't tolerate nonsense there. The wait staff frequently smack youngsters upside the head...and it keeps the peace very nicely.

[fpartri497]

the wait staff frequently slaps kids up side the head? sounds like a law suit to me

[sa meredith]

Originally Posted by fpartri497

the wait staff frequently slaps kids up side the head? sounds like a law suit to me

Pease tell me you didn't think I was serious?
The VK staff is top notch...you can't find a better crew of team players.

[fpartri497]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Pease tell me you didn't think I was serious?
The VK staff is top notch...you can't find a better crew of team players.

Ya got me there, I fell for that one

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by fpartri497

the wait staff frequently slaps kids up side the head? sounds like a law suit to me

Nope, just the out of control adults get smacked.

[MarkinNH]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Nope, just the out of control adults get smacked.

Guilty as charged