Township of Governor's Island, N.H.?

[Just Sold]

Barbara Aichinger, is seeking to persuade her neighbors on Governor's Island to secede from the town and establish a separate municipality.

http://www2.laconiadailysun.com/stor...vernors-island

[jkjoshuatree]

More power to her!!

She certainly has a lot of moxie!!

[AC2717]

Good for her, I hope it works so others can follow their lead

[Seaplane Pilot]

I sincerely hope they're able to pull this off. I can't wait to hear the giant sucking sound when all that tax revenue is being taken away from those arrogant, pompous selectmen in Gilford.

[AC2717]

It makes you wonder
Sometimes I sit here, paying my taxes to Laconia at a rate of $19.81 for 2010
up $4.30 from when I first bought and realize that I receive no services from the town at all.
We have our own dumpster because we are not allowed city trash, we are not allowed mail boxes, cannot use the schools, cannot get a resident pass for the dump (at least in 2006 I was not able to) cannot register my car or truck in NH, we have city water and city sewer but we pay the separate bill for that so none of the property taxes going to that. I cannot use the schools. About the only thing I can use the library

So the city and state take my over $2000 a year taxes and I am not allowed to use anything for it. THey also take my boat registration and jetski registration and trailer for jetski registration but at least I am able to use my boat on NH lakes for that much, but I can do that with out of state registration

Oh yeah, that's right, I cannot vote on what they do with my money either


So makes you wonder over 230 years ago the same idea was muttered

TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!!!!!

Any one have the muster and money to set up a class action lawsuit on this, and honestly I am not joking but I do not have the where withall to pick up the flag and run with it. I am glad she does

[RailroadJoe]

As Thomas Paine once said "The Government that governs least governs best"

[Jonas Pilot]

I just don't know how you put up with the B.S. this state forces you to deal with. There has got to be other states that don't treat you like this.

[Heaven]

"When did our personal success become an open checkbook for big government?" asked Barbara Aichinger

Her arrogance is appalling. I'm sure her personal success had many footsteps along a path built and paid for by others.

[jrc]

Heaven, what does the route she traveled to her success have to do with anything?

Personally I think her plan will fail, just because of the inherent cost and complexity of the process.

Does she forfeit civil rights because someone helped her at some point in her life?

[bilproject]

Maybe all the Islands should get together and form their own county with no local towns. Combining all those taxes for the various Islands (we are all over taxed for what we get) we could all see at least a 50% reduction with an increase in services. How about it Bear Island, Rattlesnake, Cow, Long Island and all the smaller Islands, You In? If we could then all these towns would finally understand they are killing the golden goose.

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by bilproject

Maybe all the Islands should get together and form their own county with no local towns. Combining all those taxes for the various Islands (we are all over taxed for what we get) we could all see at least a 50% reduction with an increase in services. How about it Bear Island, Rattlesnake, Cow, Long Island and all the smaller Islands, You In? If we could then all these towns would finally understand they are killing the golden goose.

Count me in on Bear Island!

[Heaven]

Her "personal success" was no doubt in part due to the services she used throughout her entire life that were paid for by TAXES upon others, at least partially based on the VALUE of their "personal success". This is the worst form of "I got mine, now I don't want to share", or maybe "I got mine and now I'm gonna take my island and go home"

[Happy Gourmand]

I thnk I'll run for Mayor? Governor? President? King?
I'll do it for one lousy million a year, a waterfront home with a dock, and at least a 30' boat.
Then, when I "got mine" I ain't gonna share it with you!!

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Heaven

Her "personal success" was no doubt in part due to the services she used throughout her entire life that were paid for by TAXES upon others, at least partially based on the VALUE of their "personal success". This is the worst form of "I got mine, now I don't want to share", or maybe "I got mine and now I'm gonna take my island and go home"

I guess I don't understand the word "share" with respect to taxes. We pay taxes to fund the government, they use this money to do goverment work: build and staff schools, build roads, pay the police, fire, feed the poor, care for the elderly, where does "share" come in?

All she is saying is that her little island can do this better by themselves than as part of Gilford. Now I don't know this women, she may be dead wrong on the finances, but she has a right to persue this. We should all pay attention to where and how are taxes are spent and always be looking for better ways to provide the government functions.

[RailroadJoe]

jrc Living in a world with blinders on.

[tis]

I want to secede too. I don't think the towns like that though.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by RailroadJoe

jrc Living in a world with blinders on.

Very possible, but just to be clear, I'm talking about local goverment.

I understand that many in the Federal government are very good at "sharing" my money with people who promise to vote for them.

[Argie's Wife]

...if you don't like how things are run - get involved...

You don't have to be a voting-resident to have a say in how a municipality budgets or makes budgeting decisions. NH has one of the best Right to Know laws as any state. Public meetings allow for the public to have a chance to speak. Public hearings are held for the public to address a board or committee, whether it's a governing body or an advisory committee, on the issues that matter to them. Public meetings and hearings both have to be posted in two places in a town - one of those places can be the town's website or the school's website - and generally at the town hall, post office, school district's office, or local library. As for public hearings, they're generally also posted in the local newspaper (but they don't have to be...) It's not hard to see who's meeting when and where - and you can be a part of the process.

[Mink Islander]

Bear Island researched this top some years back. Even hired a retired state supreme court justice to research and advise them as I recall. Conclusion was that it wasn't legally feasible without the cooperation of the town you're seceding from. Not likely.

[Irish mist]

This is a very difficult thing to do. Weirs Beach tried to leave Laconia back in the 90s & could not get it done.

[LadyJane]

Be careful what you wish for

[fatlazyless]

http://www.wves.sau48.org/ with just maybe 30 students spread out through grades K-8, it spends about $28,000/student, and pays the tuition for any Waterville Valley student that decides to go to Plymouth High School.

How many elementary school students, grades K-8, would the proposed Town of Governor's Island be likely to have enrolled?

[Belmont Resident]

If what I was told by a town employee is correct then Governors Island used to be part of Laconia.
They decided they did not want to be part of Laconia because they were being taxed too much. They decided to become part of Gilford.
Once again from what I was told, the taxes from the Island are what keep the taxes for the rest of the Gilford residents as low as they are.

Now I don’t know how many are, year round residents on the Island, but I can’t have a lot of sympathy for 2nd home owners, when so many can’t even afford one home.
And as far as I know we all know ahead of time what we are getting into before we sign on the dotted line.

We just got our tax bill for our 2nd home in Northern Maine and it was a staggering $1100.00. Yes that is eleven hundred. No complaints here, it’s a small price to pay for the solitude we enjoy during all of the summer holidays when the lake is a zoo. Not to mention the thousands of miles of snowmobile riding from our doorstep.

[fatlazyless]

Take a look at a map of Gilford and Laconia, and it's easy to see why Gov Isl would have been originally considered to be part of Laconia judging from the boundary line location between Gilford and Laconia in relation to Gov Isl's location.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

Now I don’t know how many are, year round residents on the Island, but I can’t have a lot of sympathy for 2nd home owners, when so many can’t even afford one home.
And as far as I know we all know ahead of time what we are getting into before we sign on the dotted line.

We just got our tax bill for our 2nd home in Northern Maine and it was a staggering $1100.00. Yes that is eleven hundred. No complaints here, it’s a small price to pay for the solitude we enjoy during all of the summer holidays when the lake is a zoo. Not to mention the thousands of miles of snowmobile riding from our doorstep.

It may be hard to have "sympathy" for people that for example own property on the Gov's Island, at the same time they like everyone else have to weigh the purchase of a piece of property against the total cost of ownership. It's a bit difficult to do that when the town clearly has a target on the prime property and on a whim can tax you right out of it? What's a reasonable figure, taxes double? triple? quadruple? in say 10 years? This is obscene no matter how "well to do" you may or may not be, especially when the perceived "rich" are hit hard as to keep the cost of living low for the rest. This is all out class warfare and it's wrong. I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination - I look at many of the mcmansions and shake my head wondering why anyone needs such a place, but I don't for one minute think they should be screwed because they have more than I do. Careful what you wish for, at some point there will be no more "rich" people to go after.

Nothing you get from the government is free, somebody had to pay for it through taxes. We have far to many expecting everything for nothing, well time to cut them off the gravy train and let them go out and earn a living just like the rest of us.

[tis]

Good post Maxum. But you got me sidetracked. I was going to say if GI is successful, I think I will move there!

[MarkinNH]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

We have far to many expecting everything for nothing, well time to cut them off the gray train and let them go out and earn a living just like the rest of us.

AMEN to that !!

[RailroadJoe]

Good luck. How do you get rid of 100 Senators and how ever many representatives at once. And where can you find any one honest enough not to worry about their Party and worry about the Americans.

[Grandpa Redneck]

Originally Posted by MarkinNH

AMEN to that !!

Yep, as my Grandpa used to say you can't get something for nothin' unless some one somewhere is is gettin' nothin' for something!!

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by RailroadJoe

Good luck. How do you get rid of 100 Senators and how ever many representatives at once. And where can you find any one honest enough not to worry about their Party and worry about the Americans.

Put an end to career politicians - IE term limits, that won't solve the problem but maybe slow the damage done. Plus the electorate needs to be better educated on what the heck is going on and how it affects them. How many times have you seen a news crew hit the streets of say NYC and ask people basic questions about current events and the answers they get in response is nothing short of astonishing. As long as that continues we're doomed to fail as a society and a country.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by tis

Good post Maxum. But you got me sidetracked. I was going to say if GI is successful, I think I will move there!

I would too if I could afford it, but all those mean nasty "rich" people have priced me out of the market

[tis]

Maybe we can pool our resources?

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by tis

Maybe we can pool our resources?

I got the first 20 bucks...

[tis]

I think I can do a little more than that!!!! We can buy one of the smaller olders places---

[MAXUM]

I hear ya, it's going to be tough having to squeeze into a 10,000 SQFT summer camp.

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

If what I was told by a town employee is correct then Governors Island used to be part of Laconia.
They decided they did not want to be part of Laconia because they were being taxed too much. They decided to become part of Gilford.
Once again from what I was told, the taxes from the Island are what keep the taxes for the rest of the Gilford residents as low as they are.

Now I don’t know how many are, year round residents on the Island, but I can’t have a lot of sympathy for 2nd home owners, when so many can’t even afford one home.
And as far as I know we all know ahead of time what we are getting into before we sign on the dotted line.

We just got our tax bill for our 2nd home in Northern Maine and it was a staggering $1100.00. Yes that is eleven hundred. No complaints here, it’s a small price to pay for the solitude we enjoy during all of the summer holidays when the lake is a zoo. Not to mention the thousands of miles of snowmobile riding from our doorstep.

Not picking a fight here, but just because they have a second home does not mean they should have to pay more for it because they can afford it.

[Heaven]

Well help me out then, does Gilford charge a greater tax rate for GI than for other areas of Gilford?

[Mink Islander]

At least that's according to the Governors Island Club website. It was once part of Gilmanton according to that site.

[Mink Islander]

Originally Posted by Heaven

Well help me out then, does Gilford charge a greater tax rate for GI than for other areas of Gilford?

If your mansion is worth millions, as most if not all on GI are, then you will pay a lot of taxes. If that property is increasing in value faster than the average home in town, then their taxes will rise faster than others too. That's the NH tax scheme. Gilford (and GI) is no different than any other town/taxpayer in that regard.

[samosetguy]

The thing I don't get is I pay over $4k a year in RE taxes in NH (more than I pay in MA) yet I'm a NON-RESIDENT when buying my fishing license. To me, that's sort of an unnecessary slap in the face to all us seasonal property owners.

And since I'm venting, would it kill a Policeman to spend some time on Scenic Dr/Belknap Pt Rd in Gilford. It's a beautiful road that I would guess at least hundreds use a week in the summer for biking/running/walking. I swear I'm almost hit 3 times a summer by some speeding driver yet I rarely ever see the police try to stop speeders. Where else in the town is more important for them to sit in between calls?

Lastly, I emailed the chief of Gilford Police two years ago asking if I should take any precautions before taking my family hiking in the fall (i.e. around hunting season). His reply . . . "I don't know, I don't hunt." Maybe I'm being too critical but I was disappointed with that reply.

[Mink Islander]

I agree we should be treated as residents for such things as fishing licenses and snowmobile registrations. But that's a state, not a town issue. Show me the state rep that will lift his/her pinkie for a non-resident/non-voter. I will say, Gilford treats it's (non bridged) island residents better than any other town on the lake. Partly because there are a surprising number of islanders who are also full time mainland Gilford residents, partly out of longstanding tradition, but mostly because Gilford islanders are organized and proactive on town issues that impact them. Perhaps Gilford needs a non resident taxpayer association to consolidate issues and bring a better voice to the discussion. Equally true for other towns around the lake.

[RailroadJoe]

I drive Belknap Point Road at least twice a month and am always traveling about 20 miles per hour. I always stop at Lincoln Park, so maybe I like to see the lake.

Also if you hike any time during hunting season even if your on a road near woods, wear something orange, never wear white. When hunting in the woods hunters look for movement.

[Merrymeeting]

Like many things in life, the McMansions stick out because of their size and become the topic of most conversations.

But, when I travel around the lakes, I still see that the very large majority of homes are owned by hard-working, middle-class, families, whom in many cases have owned the property for generations.

Then everyone wants to tax the "rich" and the taxes reach the point where the hard working family can no longer justify owning the property. They sell to a richer family who does a tear-down on the "little" house... and the cycle continues.

Be careful what you wish for.

[Kamper]

I sympathize with you out-of-staters. When I worked in Mass. No one asked me how I wanted my income tax dollars to be spent.

Have you thought about establishing a precedent in your home state for NH to follow? How often have you commuicated to your rep.s that you feel "taxation without representation" goes against the traditions of the Commonwealth? I'm sure we'd all be interested in any response you get.

[TOAD]

Originally Posted by Kamper

I sympathize with you out-of-staters. When I worked in Mass. No one asked me how I wanted my income tax dollars to be spent.

Have you thought about establishing a precedent in your home state for NH to follow? How often have you commuicated to your rep.s that you feel "taxation without representation" goes against the traditions of the Commonwealth? I'm sure we'd all be interested in any response you get.

It's not called a "Commonwealth" for nothing.

[SIKSUKR]

Interesting topic and timely for myself. I just spent the last few days on an island in Maine which did just this. My gf's daughter got married this past weekend on Long Island in Casco Bay. It used to be part of Portland but it seceded from it some time ago. Talked to a few locals that are very happy about that. The thing that stood out and I thought was funny was that the cars on the island didn't have any license plates or inspection stickers. Lots of old vehicles that probably would not pass. Many golf carts for transportation also. Pretty cool experience and a nice feel to the place. Not sure it compares to the GI situation with that being a bridged island and the homes on LI being very modest summer camps. fwiw

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by RailroadJoe

I drive Belknap Point Road at least twice a month and am always traveling about 20 miles per hour. I always stop at Lincoln Park, so maybe I like to see the lake.

Also if you hike any time during hunting season even if your on a road near woods, wear something orange, never wear white. When hunting in the woods hunters look for movement.

I cannot stress enough as a hunter, if you venture into the woods wear something blaze orange and a lot of it.

[Belmont Resident]

I never said I agreed with the taxes, just that that’s how it is. I just don’t have sympathy for the rich mainly because a lot, not all, tend to look down on the rest of us, and there is a lot of that up here. Another thing we see a lot of up here is the people who have a lot of money are some of the cheapest ones when it comes to having work done to their houses.

Yup I’m all for term limits on all these bottom feeding politicians, especially the ones like Kennedy who was so old and useless he couldn’t even walk or stand up with out shaking.

And yes they should put an end to the people working the system while we pay for it.
A drug test for anyone on welfare, unemployment or any other assistance program would probably help weed out some. There is so much wrong, where do you start.
But now I’m off topic anyways.

[The Big Kahuna]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

I never said I agreed with the taxes, just that that’s how it is. I just don’t have sympathy for the rich mainly because a lot, not all, tend to look down on the rest of us, and there is a lot of that up here. Another thing we see a lot of up here is the people who have a lot of money are some of the cheapest ones when it comes to having work done to their houses.

Are you kidding me!

[Belmont Resident]

Multimillion dollar homes, lake front, and views. All add up to a higher tax rate no matter what town you live in. GI just happens to be all million dollar homes not a mixture like other areas of the lake.
Honestly one of the biggest eye sores on the lake unless you own there.
I have not met many who just can not understand the need for that much wasted space.
I've always believed in having what I need in a house, not building to impress.

[MarkinNH]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

I never said I agreed with the taxes, just that that’s how it is. I just don’t have sympathy for the rich mainly because a lot, not all, tend to look down on the rest of us, and there is a lot of that up here. Another thing we see a lot of up here is the people who have a lot of money are some of the cheapest ones when it comes to having work done to their houses.
.

You must have run into a lot of bad apples. I have worked for and still work for Many of these wealthier waterfront homeowners and can honestly say that at least for the ones I know and work (ed) for they have been some of the most down to earth, friendliest and generous people I know. The "come on in, have a cup of coffee, tell us how you have been" kind of people.

[RailroadJoe]

Never judge all because of a few, except politicians naturally.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

I just don’t have sympathy for the rich mainly because a lot, not all, tend to look down on the rest of us, and there is a lot of that up here.
But now I’m off topic anyways.

Wow. Usually you reap what you sow. Sounds from your post that you're the one that looks down on people.

[jrc]

I just don’t have sympathy for the rich mainly because a lot, not all, tend to look down on the rest of us, and there is a lot of that up here.

There is no correlation between money and arrogance, I've met jerks at every income level. Class warfare is a dangerous weapon, look at the riots in England.

BTW Belmont Resident, you own two homes, by most definitions you are rich.

[flyguy]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

GI just happens to be all million dollar homes not a mixture like other areas of the lake.

That's not what I see in this close-up aerial video of the northeast shore of GI: Governors Island Helicopter Tour. Yes, there are megamansions, but there are still some original camps there, and long stretches of woods.

[NoBozo]

Nice video Bill. I just noticed something I hadn't noticed before..All those very expensive property's ..and NO Real Boathouses. Just a few open-walled "carports".

Are new construction boathouses no longer permitted on the lake..?? There is a nice new Stone boathouse over on Umbrella Point (Wolfeboro Neck)....but it was built on dry land (actually blasted out of solid rock) and then a lagoon dredged out in front afterward.

Maybe the property owners on GI just aren't Rich Enough to "Get er done". NB

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

Multimillion dollar homes, lake front, and views. All add up to a higher tax rate no matter what town you live in. GI just happens to be all million dollar homes not a mixture like other areas of the lake.
Honestly one of the biggest eye sores on the lake unless you own there.
I have not met many who just can not understand the need for that much wasted space.
I've always believed in having what I need in a house, not building to impress.

BR, I think you are confused. The higher the assessed value for the town, the lower the tax rate. Having a bunch of big houses that don't use town services is a real boon to a town's tax rate reduction. Of course how much money the town spends is just as important.

Personally, I like the looks of any size place that is well done. I have not seen a strong correlation between well done and money spent. You can find plenty of both on either end of the bell curve.

[Jonas Pilot]

Rattlesnake Guy said ...

"Personally, I like the looks of any size place that is well done. I have not seen a strong correlation between well done and money spent. You can find plenty of both on either end of the bell curve."

Well said.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by flyguy

.... in this close-up aerial video of the northeast shore of GI: Governors Island Helicopter Tour. Yes, there are ...

Say hey....that looks like two tennis courts, complete with tennis court nets, located just a few feet away from the water's edge, and nobody was playing any tennis! That's a big waste to see two empty and unused tennis courts!

So, what should I do to find a tennis-playing, bored Gov Isl widow in her fifties, or younger, like much younger? If she has a hot car with a manual transmission, that would be a big plus.......either German or Swedish is good!

I could be over there in the Alumacraft outboard in about five minutes! From Buoy 3 to Governor's Island: Distance......about three million dollars......: time....oh about five minutes or less!

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Say hey....that looks like two tennis courts, complete with tennis court nets, located just a few feet away from the water's edge, and nobody was playing any tennis! That's a big waste to see two empty and unused tennis courts!

So, what should I do to find a tennis-playing, bored Gov Isl widow in her fifties, or younger, like much younger? If she has a hot car with a manual transmission, that would be a big plus.......either German or Swedish is good!

I could be over there in the Alumacraft outboard in about five minutes! From Buoy 3 to Governor's Island: Distance......about three million dollars......: time....oh about five minutes or less!

That's the funniest thing you have posted in a loooong time!!

[Pineedles]

Feeling lucky FLL? You dont get, if you don't don't try! Give it a shot big guy! You could be fluffen off Walmart and doin Rodeo Drive if you're smart.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

New boathouses are not permitted in Center Harbor or Moultonboro but I think they are the only two towns that don't allow them.

[fatlazyless]

So, does the Town of Gilford allow the Governor's Island tennis court property to be exempt from the property tax for some reason like 'in current use' or because it is a community recreation facility, or something? After all, isn't the Castle in the Clouds, over in Moultonborough, applying to be property tax exempt, so if it's good for the Castle then it should be good for the tennis courts, too!

This makes good local property tax policy?
............

Compared to golf, sailing, or skiing; tennis is the cheapest sport around! Walk into Wal-Mart with a twenty dollar bill, and you can walk out fully equipped for tennis; twenty dollars will buy you a decent tennis racquet and six tennis balls, good enough to get you started in tennis, and most everyone already has sneakers and a hat.

Local tennis courts, totally free-to-use, are all over the area at municipal tennis courts in Ashland, Center Harbor, Meredith, Moultonborough, and Gilford. Only Waterville Valley has no free tennis, and that's because they have 18 red clay courts at the www.wvtennis.com which cost money to use and besides, clay tennis courts require a lot of daily court maintenance like they need to be watered and brushed out, just like a horse. Most likely, the Governor's Island tennis courts are not open to the public and are probably a private club. So, does the Governor's Island tennis court property pay regular property taxes because if they do then that would be a lot of money considering that waterfront location?

But who knows, anything is possible when it comes to being property tax exempt; just look at The Castle or the closed-up Camp Monotomy?

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

New boathouses are not permitted in Center Harbor or Moultonboro but I think they are the only two towns that don't allow them.

I disagree. There is a brand new boathouse in Moultonborough on a property for sale in Center Harbor bay. They dug into the shoreline to create a new waterline. Property is directly North of Little One Mile Island. Asking price is a bit over $5 million. Also, I believe another one has been built about 4 propertys to the west from the Centre Harbor town beach where the FF was held this year.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

If this is the property I am thinking of, the permit was obtained before the no boathouse zoning took effect or was grandfathered. Check with the COE and you will learn that there are no new boathouses in Moultonboro.

[Pineedles]

Both places were built fairly recently, within the past 5 years. I will check, thanks. One thing, what is COE? Corps of Engineers, Commission on Environment, ??

[Onshore]

Perhaps she meant C(ode) E(nforcement) O(fficer).

Under current standards, any new boathouse needs to be of the dug-in variety. There are 2 characteristics of Governer's island that may have contributed to the lack of boathouses in the area. The first is slope. The shoreline of Governor's gains elevation in a hurry. This makes for greater excavation needs and higher cuts in steeper slopes that will need to be restabilized. This increases the potential for erosion and stuctural problems. Shoreland Rules prohibit the construction of structures in slopes steeper than 25% because of these concerns. The second characteristic of Governor's that might be working against boathouse construction is the fact that much of Governor's shoreline experiences significant, natural, littoral transport of sand. This sand moving along the shoreline can fill in a boathouse in less than a year in some circumstances. It could render a boathouse unsustainable.

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by shore things

Perhaps she meant C(ode) E(nforcement) O(fficer).

Under current standards, any new boathouse needs to be of the dug-in variety. There are 2 characteristics of Governer's island that may have contributed to the lack of boathouses in the area. The first is slope. The shoreline of Governor's gains elevation in a hurry. This makes for greater excavation needs and higher cuts in steeper slopes that will need to be restabilized. This increases the potential for erosion and stuctural problems. Shoreland Rules prohibit the construction of structures in slopes steeper than 25% because of these concerns. The second characteristic of Governor's that might be working against boathouse construction is the fact that much of Governor's shoreline experiences significant, natural, littoral transport of sand. This sand moving along the shoreline can fill in a boathouse in less than a year in some circumstances. It could render a boathouse unsustainable.

Thanks Shore things. Both of the mentioned boathouses were "dug-in".

[Pineedles]

I went to the town ordinance section for M'boro and Sue is correct.

F. (1) Dug-in Boathouses in or over the water shall not be allowed. Proposed
Boathouses at the time of the adoption of this section of the ordinance shall be
eligible for a Town Building Permit until June 30, 2003.

I stand corrected. They must have proposed the boathouses much earlier.

[Ms Merge]

Well folks I must admit had I known this topic was blazing away for the last month I would have chimed in earlier. Although I am not the person who first came up with the idea for GI to form its own town (they have thought about it for decades) I have been the most recent person to champion the idea.

Just to clear the record...the comment in the LDS about my success being an open checkbook for big government was NOT in response to GI becoming its own town. If you read the article it was a response to comments from the Town Administrator Scott Dunn on my comments about the growth of the Gilford local government.

From 2000 to 2010 the municipal budget has grown 59% while the population increase has been only 4%. The school budget for Gilford has grown 69% while the student population has decreased by over 300 students. The issue is that Gilford local government GREW into the housing bubble. The assessments went up as the bubble grew and they grew the spending. It would have been a perfect time to keep the spending increase at the rate of inflation so that the tax rate was lowered. Gilford did not NEED this money...it WANTED it so it took it by force mostly from the non resident tax payers. 48% of the taxes in Gilford are paid for by people that cannot vote.

Governors Island pays 4.1M in property taxes (and GI was never part of Laconia). 1.1M goes to the town. The town has refused to redo GI's roads which are in pretty bad shape. If a GI resident dials 911 Laconia shows up first....GI gets very little for the 1.1M. GI has 12 students in the Gilford schools. GI residents pay 2M for those 12 students. That is $167,000.00 per student per year. Gilford now is a school listed as 'in need of improvement' as they have failed their AYP in 2 subjects 2 years in a row. The SAT scores are well below state average and barely at the national average yet the cost per student is twice national average.

Right now real estate values are crashing. However the town/school spending is not. So the assessments are dropping and the spending is flat so that means the tax rate goes up...for everyone...not just those 'rich' people on the water. Governors Island now has several sales BELOW assessed value and property is LISTED for below assessed value. The reason in part is because the real estate bubble has burst but the other reason is because Gilford's tax rate is high (except for Laconia) and buyers see the lack of services that they get on GI from Gilford. What few buyers there are for these waterfront homes buy in other towns. It is going to be very interesting as GI's assessments drop in a 'race to the bottom' and Gilford see's it tax rate sky rocket. Soon the people using the services will be paying for them and it will be interesting to see how they react. Gilford's goose that laid the golden egg ,year after year with the big assessments and very little pull on the services, is dead and not coming back anytime soon.

Barbara Aichinger
aka Ms. Merge

[IslandRadio]

Originally Posted by Ms Merge

Governors Island pays 4.1M in property taxes (and GI was never part of Laconia). 1.1M goes to the town.

Where does the remainder (and majority) of the property tax money go, if not to the town? I'm not overly familiar with New Hampshire tax procedures. Here in Mass, when I pay property taxes (to the Town in which I live), all of it goes to the Town. Then, the Town divides it between various local entities; schools, public safety, highway, etc.

Because Mass. has broad based taxes (I'm not arguing for or against, just reporting the facts), the town also receives money from the state, and this money is a significant portion of the town's revenue.

Do you mean 1.1M of G.I.'s 4.1M in property taxes goes to the Town's general government, and the remainder to schools and other entities within the town?

[Ms Merge]

In NH your property bill has 4 components. The first is the local government and yes the money goes right to them. The second is the local school district and yes the money goes right to them. The third is the county. The town actually cashes your check and writes the county a check. The last part of your tax bill goes to the state school fund and the town writes them a check. Based on the school funding formula some of the money may come back to your school district. So the property owners on Governor's Island together pay 1.1M directly to the town, 2.0 M to the Gilford school district and the last 1M goes to the county and state school fund.

Regards,
Ms Merge

[Heaven]

Point one, there is never a justification for opting out of school spending because an area, street, family or whatever has "only x" students.

Point two, even if a new town were formed you'd STILL be a non-resident taxpayer.

Point three, Gilford didn't STEAL the tax money, it was approved by VOTERS.

[Ms Merge]

Originally Posted by Heaven

Her arrogance is appalling. I'm sure her personal success had many footsteps along a path built and paid for by others.

Just to clear the air on this post....During the Selectman's meeting I was asking the Selectman to review the Town Employee's benefits and salaries. I have looked at them and I must say that they are better than most of the private sector. In addition they got raises every year throughout this economic down turn, absent the department heads who did not get raises last year. I mentioned the falling assessments as the towns revenue base and that in the private sector when we have falling revenue we usually freeze or cut wages and benefits. The Town Administrator Scott Dunn replied 'no town employee ownes two homes on Governor's Island'. This was his way of telling me that I had no right to complain and that I should just shut up and take it. My response was that my success and the success of any of my neighbors should not be an excuse to over pay the town employees. Like I have said in the past...they do not NEED the money they WANT it and take it by force through taxation.

With regards to my preceived personal success. Heaven, I am a product of the public schools. I did not have weathly parents. I paid my way through college, married a guy with a similar background. We started a company (www.futureplus.com) and have done fairly well. I challenge you to find the path that we followed that was paid for by others. Our company has had no banks, no bail outs, no TARP just hard work from us and our dedicated employees. We are the American Dream and we were fortunate enough to buy waterfront real estate on this beautiful lake. Never did I imagine it would have turned me into a property rights advocate (see www.NHPropertyRights.com). We pay good wages and benefits to our employees. My question, Isn't this the kind of people you want to attract to your community?

Regards,
Ms Merge

[Heaven]

My point was that you went to a public school, despite your claim that nothing was "paid for by others", , , well what do you call that?

Also look back to the time periods when your company was doing well and you were rewarding your employees accordingly (you WERE weren't you???). Municipal employees do not get rewarded at a level of the private sector during the cyclical economic booms.

And your american dream was paid for by people purchasing your product(s). It is a two way street.

[Ms Merge]

Originally Posted by Heaven

Point one, there is never a justification for opting out of school spending because an area, street, family or whatever has "only x" students.

Point two, even if a new town were formed you'd STILL be a non-resident taxpayer.

Point three, Gilford didn't STEAL the tax money, it was approved by VOTERS.

Heaven, My suggestion is not that the new town of Governor's Island not pay for the education of its residents. They indeed would but at a much lower cost. In fact I have proposed that a private fund be started that would pay 25% of a private education so that the island children would have choice.

You are correct that most of the property owners on Governors Island would still be non residents and thus not able to vote but we have seen many more people start to choose GI as their primary residence. I am one example of that. Currently we have about 100 registered voters on the island.

With regards to your last comment. Did I use the word STEAL? I have often complained about the budgets that are presented to the voters. Their is usually only one and it is higher than the last and the default budget is higher than the proposed one! I just have a real issue with the fact that Gilford is not more considerate of the large number of non resident tax payers in the town. The tax rate is simply too high.

[Ms Merge]

Originally Posted by MDoug

Count me in on Bear Island!

Folks, this is not that far fetched. What I would recommend is that you approach your legislators. You can form an unincorporated area. This is actually the definition of a township. My idea for Governor's Island was to form an incorporated place which is a town.

Since the non bridged islands are largely seasonal this would fit perfectly with an unicorporated place. What it would take would be a bill sponsored by your state legislature. I actually think given the current political environment it would pass. You would not be responsible for the town and local school portion of the tax bill but would still pay the county and the state school fund. You would then negotiate with the county (always looking for funds) for the services you collectively would desire. Your taxes would be very low and you would be happy.

Regards,
Ms Merge

[IslandRadio]

I can see it now - the township of Rattlesnake Island

[JMR]

I am told that years ago thee was a discussion of a number of the islands coming together to form a town. As you might guess, the issue is (always?) too high taxation for the little benefit that islands actually get from towns. The offset is the costs of police, fire and some admiistration in the new town. And I suspect, the attitude of the town that you are trying to leave. Since, most towns do not want to lose taxable real estate.

The NH legislature has the power to create towns and change the boundaries of towns. It comes from the concept that towns and counties are the creation of the state legislature. Thus the state can change them at any time.

For example, Sugar Hill was once a portion of another town (Littleton?), but the legislature carved it out to stand on its own. It was challenged and the NH Supreme Court upheld the creation of sugar Hill by the legislature. As you might guess, it was years of litigation between the two before and after the legislature acted.

I have heard, but not checked, that Governors Island left laconia for Guilford back in the day.

A cynical view would be that money speaks when it comes to these decisions to change towns, etc.

For what it is worth..........

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by JMR

IFor example, Sugar Hill was once a portion of another town (Littleton?), but the legislature carved it out to stand on its own. It was challenged and the NH Supreme Court upheld the creation of sugar Hill by the legislature.

Actually, Sugar Hill was part of Lisbon in 1962. Second youngest town in Nh behind Harts Location 2001.

[fatlazyless]

Since about October, 2007, the Gilford Police Dept has been represented through collective bargaining with the town by the Teamsters Union. So, how do the property tax payers of Gilford like them apples what with the Teamsters Union www.teamsters.org negotiator squaring off against the town with regard to police salary pay, overtime, family health & dental insurance, vacation days, sick leave and pension benefits?

If you google "Gilford NH Police Dept joins Teamsters Union", you can read up on it.

The same is true for Meredith Police too, but with a different union group, and not the Teamsters. I think it is www.afscme.org/home for the Meredith Police. The motto of the AFSCME is "We make America happen!" and what it should really say is "We make America happen for our members, thanks to your property taxes!"

Do the police pay property taxes too? Sure they do, some of them do anyway, and who can blame them for wanting to have a "good job at a good wage," but when the entire town budget is paid from the local property tax, it just seems like an out of whack tax system.

One strong reason why the local selectmen's role as a low-paid, volunteer town administrative board gets compromised is because many of the towns give their selectmen the same excellent family insurance policy coverage as their police and town employees. By getting the same expensive health insurance coverage, it's like everybody in the town's employment is all in the same one big boat that includes selectmen, teachers, police, fire, dpw, administrative, etc. They all in the same big boat, and it's kept afloat by the local property tax.

Supposedly, the board of selectmen is up at the steering wheel, driving the boat, and the selectmen's position was originally designed to be a "check & balance" that would keep local spending down low what with the selectmen being a volunteer, low-paying position that would attract people who did it to be a local volunteer and to be fiscally conservative. It used to work like that, but once the selectmen board, who are steering the boat and got their hand on the throttle control, once they start to get the same very expensive health insurance as everybody else in town, then they is basically all in the same boat, and have pretty much the same financial interests.

So who is steering the boat that wants to keep the town cruising along at a nice slow, conservative, low-cost speed? Is there anybody on-board in Gilford. It seems like it probably could be that the Gilford Budget Committee would do a better job of steering that Gilford boat because the BudCom members do NOT get the Gilford health insurance coverage that the selectmen get.

Plus, Gilford is an SB-2 town, so that must help a lot to keep that Gilford boat running along at a slower, less expensive speed, what with all warrant articles decided by a secret, all day long, ballot vote, as opposed to a town meeting, show of hands, vote.

So, it seems like stripping away all the health insurance benefits from the Gilford selectmen would probably change the tenor of the select board, because it would become a position that was a low pay, per diem, true volunteer position.