2012 Fuel Costs

[Happy Gourmand]

No doubt politics and Wall Street are having some effect of the prices we see at the pump. But I also wonder if all the bull crap over in the Middle East is making the biggest difference?
At least one candidate (who is no longer a candidate) promised us $2 a gallon gas if he was to become our next President.
Would you agree that our current President would lower the price to $2 a gallon before the November election, if he could, to guarantee re-election?
IMO I think the President has less to do with gas prices than any on the other 3 reasons mentioned above.

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

No doubt politics and Wall Street are having some effect of the prices we see at the pump. But I also wonder if all the bull crap over in the Middle East is making the biggest difference?
At least one candidate (who is no longer a candidate) promised us $2 a gallon gas if he was to become our next President.
Would you agree that our current President would lower the price to $2 a gallon before the November election, if he could, to guarantee re-election?
IMO I think the President has less to do with gas prices than any on the other 3 reasons mentioned above.

From what I have been told the government has a lot more control over gas prices then we are lead to believe. I for one would not be surprised to find obama manipulates the prices so that he looks good during an election year. I don’t trust him at all.
Isn’t it sad, 20 years ago you would not hear of people talking such trash about the President of our country. Today you hear it on a regular basis.
Considering what we have to chose from I don’t see it ending any time soon.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

No doubt politics and Wall Street are having some effect of the prices we see at the pump. But I also wonder if all the bull crap over in the Middle East is making the biggest difference?
At least one candidate (who is no longer a candidate) promised us $2 a gallon gas if he was to become our next President.
Would you agree that our current President would lower the price to $2 a gallon before the November election, if he could, to guarantee re-election?
IMO I think the President has less to do with gas prices than any on the other 3 reasons mentioned above.

Clearly the Prez isn't setting the price from the oval office, thankfully we haven't gone that far off the cliff yet. However indirectly policy decisions that are made certainly would send signals to the markets that in turn drive the cost.

Since the middle east is the largest supplier of oil to the global market, any disruptions to that supply or even threats thereof would have an impact. Perception feeds speculation. Furthermore any US involvement (or lack thereof) to keep the region stable plays into that equation.

It's a bit disingenuous that any candidate promise gas to be sold at any particular price, that's just playing politics to score points. However there is no question that as I pointed out earlier that the president can influence the price indirectly by signaling either a friendly or hostile position in dealing with fossil fuel supply, refinement and use. Currently the smoke signals from DC are hostile in nature.

High gas prices are toxic to any president's approval rating and therefore so are his re-election chances. You can bet that if the people surrounding the current president believe this to be a big enough factor action will be forthcoming to reduce the price at the pump. It's anyone's guess what they will try to accomplish this since there is no question the current administration is not interested in about keeping the prices down.

One final thing, the cost of oil is set based on the value of the US dollar. Over the past few years with these 'quantitative easing' attempts, two thus far by the fed have flooded the market with essentially printed dollars resulting in deluding it's value. The US dollar is worth less so it takes more dollars to buy stuff. This drives inflation big time so the fact oil costs more can also be attributed to this as well. Whether or not it can be argued these QE programs by the fed have been successful in their intended purpose, the consequences are predictable, inflation, to what extent remains to be seen.

If gas prices to get as high as anticipated it's really going to wreak havoc on an already weak economy in the lakes region and north country of NH which is heavily dependent on tourism.

[Kamper]

If you can't afford to cruise and there's no place to raft, the only thing left is drifting. Folks will head up-wind, drop the sock, and bob all day. With luck you can get 6 hours from the Garden to Treasure.

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Clearly the Prez isn't setting the price from the oval office, thankfully we haven't gone that far off the cliff yet. However indirectly policy decisions that are made certainly would send signals to the markets that in turn drive the cost.

Since the middle east is the largest supplier of oil to the global market, any disruptions to that supply or even threats thereof would have an impact. Perception feeds speculation. Furthermore any US involvement (or lack thereof) to keep the region stable plays into that equation.

It's a bit disingenuous that any candidate promise gas to be sold at any particular price, that's just playing politics to score points. However there is no question that as I pointed out earlier that the president can influence the price indirectly by signaling either a friendly or hostile position in dealing with fossil fuel supply, refinement and use. Currently the smoke signals from DC are hostile in nature.

High gas prices are toxic to any president's approval rating and therefore so are his re-election chances. You can bet that if the people surrounding the current president believe this to be a big enough factor action will be forthcoming to reduce the price at the pump. It's anyone's guess what they will try to accomplish this since there is no question the current administration is not interested in about keeping the prices down.

One final thing, the cost of oil is set based on the value of the US dollar. Over the past few years with these 'quantitative easing' attempts, two thus far by the fed have flooded the market with essentially printed dollars resulting in deluding it's value. The US dollar is worth less so it takes more dollars to buy stuff. This drives inflation big time so the fact oil costs more can also be attributed to this as well. Whether or not it can be argued these QE programs by the fed have been successful in their intended purpose, the consequences are predictable, inflation, to what extent remains to be seen.

If gas prices to get as high as anticipated it's really going to wreak havoc on an already weak economy in the lakes region and north country of NH which is heavily dependent on tourism.

Maxum, I agree with you...lots of factors at work here.
The point I was trying to make is that the price of gas is dependent on many factors and one entity or individual may be able to invoke some influence regarding the final price, but the fact of the matter is that there is a very complicated "machine" with many "operators" that will determine the final outcome and thus the price.

[LIforrelaxin]

So I have been away for a while, just trying to not thing about the lake... But over the last few weeks my thoughts have turned back to the lake. And the gas prices have gotten me thinking. I have survived high gas prices before and didn't let it effect my boating and traveling habits. However this time things are different.... Before I always saw high gas prices as a temporary inconvience. However at this point there is no end in sight to the ever rising gas prices. Couple that with now being a family man, and having to worry not only about my self but also my wife and children. I believe this year will see changes in my habits. With the cost of fuel, I don't believe I will be at the lake every weekend. That alone will cut down on the hours I spend on the boat. I also believe that taking the boat for short meaningless rides around the island will probably also be cut down. However The long rides where I truely enjoy what the lake has to offer, will still happen... And of course the week I am on vacation, I will live on the boat.

In short the quality boating is going to continue to happen. However the ride friday night to unwhined after the trip, and the ride Sunday, just before going home are not going to be as frequent.

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

No doubt politics and Wall Street are having some effect of the prices we see at the pump. But I also wonder if all the bull crap over in the Middle East is making the biggest difference?
At least one candidate (who is no longer a candidate) promised us $2 a gallon gas if he was to become our next President.
Would you agree that our current President would lower the price to $2 a gallon before the November election, if he could, to guarantee re-election?
IMO I think the President has less to do with gas prices than any on the other 3 reasons mentioned above.

Finally some sanity to the discussion.

If any person in Washington, DC had control of gas prices then the price woud go down.

Some news reports state that up to $15.00 per barrel of gas is raised by Wall Street speculators.

Most don't realize that when a tanker fills up in the Middle East that oil may be bought and sold a dozen times before it gets to ports in US.

Most don't understand commodity trading and prefer not to learn about such.

Construct more refineries. Not in my back yard. And liability issues.

[NoRegrets]

Originally Posted by TheProfessor

Finally some sanity to the discussion.

If any person in Washington, DC had control of gas prices then the price woud go down.

Some news reports state that up to $15.00 per barrel of gas is raised by Wall Street speculators.

Most don't realize that when a tanker fills up in the Middle East that oil may be bought and sold a dozen times before it gets to ports in US.

Most don't understand commodity trading and prefer not to learn about such.

Construct more refineries. Not in my back yard. And liability issues.

I no longer believe what I read in the news or rely on headline facts to support my decision or positions. Research the refineries and pipeline companies and you will be amazed at how many there are. Most are efficient, safe, and have mature operations. Refined oil is now oue of our countries largest export items and is the largest industry (minus defense) that works to reverse our trade inbalance. Look into the HollyFrontier Corporation (HFC) as reference. They have a great website to visit to enlighten you on the business model and complexities. They also are major owner in a pipline company.

EPA regulations set by the Secretary of Energy has everything to do with the price of fuel. The largest refinery in the world closed in last month. Reason? They had a 700 million dollar EPA mandated refit. They could not make a profit so the shut down. They were on St. Croix, the largest employer of the Island, and most of the gas was targeted on the east coast. Three gas refineries on the east coast are now off-line due to EPA retrofits. EPA is dragging its feet on permits. Five coal fired electric plants are closing in Pennsylvania and two in New Jersey due to EPA rules. Look for brownouts this summer.

Oil got to 145 dollars per barrel in 2005 and the president signed an energy policy opening drilling. The barrel price dropped to 40 dollars per barrel and gas dropped to 1.90 per gallon. Nothing else changed in the world. No new discoveries, Wars still in Iraq and Afghanistan, etc.

The current president appointed Steven Chu as Secretary of Energy. That pair is has been poison to "fossil" energy which in turn is the life blood of our economy. Go to the CSPAN website and watch the congressional hearings with the Secretary of energy and you will listen to the link of the administration to the gas price from the horse’s mouth!

[ITD]

Originally Posted by NoRegrets

I no longer believe what I read in the news or rely on headline facts to support my decision or positions. Research the refineries and pipeline companies and you will be amazed at how many there are. Most are efficient, safe, and have mature operations. Refined oil is now oue of our countries largest export items and is the largest industry (minus defense) that works to reverse our trade inbalance. Look into the HollyFrontier Corporation (HFC) as reference. They have a great website to visit to enlighten you on the business model and complexities. They also are major owner in a pipline company.

EPA regulations set by the Secretary of Energy has everything to do with the price of fuel. The largest refinery in the world closed in last month. Reason? They had a 700 million dollar EPA mandated refit. They could not make a profit so the shut down. They were on St. Croix, the largest employer of the Island, and most of the gas was targeted on the east coast. Three gas refineries on the east coast are now off-line due to EPA retrofits. EPA is dragging its feet on permits. Five coal fired electric plants are closing in Pennsylvania and two in New Jersey due to EPA rules. Look for brownouts this summer.

Oil got to 145 dollars per barrel in 2005 and the president signed an energy policy opening drilling. The barrel price dropped to 40 dollars per barrel and gas dropped to 1.90 per gallon. Nothing else changed in the world. No new discoveries, Wars still in Iraq and Afghanistan, etc.

The current president appointed Steven Chu as Secretary of Energy. That pair is has been poison to "fossil" energy which in turn is the life blood of our economy. Go to the CSPAN website and watch the congressional hearings with the Secretary of energy and you will listen to the link of the administration to the gas price from the horse’s mouth!

You've nailed it Noregrets, nailed it.

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by NoRegrets

Oil got to 145 dollars per barrel in 2005 and the president signed an energy policy opening drilling. The barrel price dropped to 40 dollars per barrel and gas dropped to 1.90 per gallon. Nothing else changed in the world. No new discoveries, Wars still in Iraq and Afghanistan, etc.

After 2005, gas prices continued to rise, until it hit over $4 in the summer of 2008. That was one of the triggers that destabilized the economy, that really broke in October, by reducing driving and along with it, consumer sales. Another spike over $4 a gallon this summer could set spending back again. This is good for the ecology of the lake, but tough on too many people.

[NoRegrets]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

After 2005, gas prices continued to rise, until it hit over $4 in the summer of 2008. That was one of the triggers that destabilized the economy, that really broke in October, by reducing driving and along with it, consumer sales. Another spike over $4 a gallon this summer could set spending back again. This is good for the ecology of the lake, but tough on too many people.

You are right. Energy is the backbone to our economy. It may take years to see impact from policy to consumer price. These situations are muti-dimensional to say the least. I do not like wall street speculation on energy and would like to see the law that allowed it reversed. Speculation activity seems to sling-shot price with no regard to value.

There is a balance that is needed to keep a healthy planet, society, and economic model. You cannot stop spending or spend too much. You need to be conservative at times and liberal when appropriate.

[garysanfran]

Originally Posted by NoRegrets

You are right. Energy is the backbone to our economy. It may take years to see impact from policy to consumer price. These situations are muti-dimensional to say the least. I do not like wall street speculation on energy and would like to see the law that allowed it reversed. Speculation activity seems to sling-shot price with no regard to value.

There is a balance that is needed to keep a healthy planet, society, and economic model. You cannot stop spending or spend too much. You need to be conservative at times and liberal when appropriate.

Let me try to explain "speculation"...Anyone who owns a share of stock is a "speculator" in what ever the segment that share of stock represents. Speculation is betting on future increase in value. This President (if he understood economics) could fire a shot over the head of "speculators" by throwing a damper on the future value of oil. If there is just a "perception" that future value of oil will be affected by today's decisions, the price will fall as stock holders sell.

Obama could announce tomorrow (or could have yesterday) that all Govt. vehicles are going to be converted to natural gas, an announcement to build the Keystone Pipeline, lift ban on Gulf drilling, open Anwar. In other words "drill, drill, drill". The price of oil will plummet as Chevron stockholders sell.


Obama said "There is nothing I can do to control gas prices". What he should have said, to be more accurate, is "I can't think of anything to do to lower gas prices".

The shape of the future depends on the decisions we make today.

[Barney Bear]

Gas tax refund application deadline for 2011 is April 15, 2012.

[This'nThat]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

Would you agree that our current President would lower the price to $2 a gallon before the November election, if he could, to guarantee re-election?

Here's a quote from our so-called president:
"Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity would necessarily skyrocket." -Barack Obama

And another one: "If somebody wants to build a coal power plant they can, it's just that it will bankrupt them because they are going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that's being emitted," -Barack Obama

And here's what he said when he canceled the Keystone pipeline that has been studied for 3 years, and which would be layed through Nebraska which already has hundreds of miles of similar pipelines: "The rushed and arbitrary deadline insisted on by Congressional Republicans prevented a full assessment of the pipeline’s impact, especially the health and safety of the American people, as well as our environment." -Barack Obama

So, the answer is: NO. He has no interest in lowering gas prices. Faux environmentalism is way too important for that.

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by This'nThat

Here's a quote from our so-called president:
"Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity would necessarily skyrocket." -Barack Obama

And another one: "If somebody wants to build a coal power plant they can, it's just that it will bankrupt them because they are going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that's being emitted," -Barack Obama

And here's what he said when he canceled the Keystone pipeline that has been studied for 3 years, and which would be layed through Nebraska which already has hundreds of miles of similar pipelines: "The rushed and arbitrary deadline insisted on by Congressional Republicans prevented a full assessment of the pipeline’s impact, especially the health and safety of the American people, as well as our environment." -Barack Obama

So, the answer is: NO. He has no interest in lowering gas prices. Faux environmentalism is way too important for that.

So many quotes, all out of context. You missed my point that a sitting president has little power to raise or lower gas prices on his own. I still believe that our current President, or any future President seeking reelection, would, if he/she could, lower the price of gas to garner enough votes to insure his/her reelection.

[This'nThat]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

So many quotes, all out of context.

Ok, so you weren't able to understand my previous quotes. My apologies. How about these; remember, now, this so-called president is telling us precisely how to get gas prices down:

1. "If we can figure out how to make energy out of algea, we'll be doing alright. Believe it or not, we could replace up to 17 percent of the oil we import for transportation with this fuel that we can grow right here in America." - Barack Obama
2. “Making sure your tires are properly inflated – simple thing. But we could save all the oil that they’re talking about getting off drilling – if everybody was just inflating their tires. And getting regular tune-ups? You’d actually save just as much!” - Barack Obama

Obama has no interest at all at reducing gas prices. It's all about apeasing his radical environmentalists. Because this isn't an energy policy -- it's a clear sign of pure stupidity.

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by This'nThat

Ok, so you weren't able to understand my previous quotes. My apologies. How about these; remember, now, this so-called president is telling us precisely how to get gas prices down:

1. "If we can figure out how to make energy out of algea, we'll be doing alright. Believe it or not, we could replace up to 17 percent of the oil we import for transportation with this fuel that we can grow right here in America." - Barack Obama
2. “Making sure your tires are properly inflated – simple thing. But we could save all the oil that they’re talking about getting off drilling – if everybody was just inflating their tires. And getting regular tune-ups? You’d actually save just as much!” - Barack Obama

Obama has no interest at all at reducing gas prices. It's all about apeasing his radical environmentalists. Because this isn't an energy policy -- it's a clear sign of pure stupidity.

I'm not inclined to get into a pi$$ing contest with you or anybody else. Yup, the current President has made some bad decisions that did not please every citizen of this great country. But then, so has every president, at least since George Washington. (Does that cover all of them?) I think we would all be better served if we could all make an effort to work WITH the current administration regardless of who might be occupying the oval office. The attitude of bipartisanship that permeates all of Washington and beyond is tearing this country apart. We're in serious trouble, let's all do what we can to work together with civility and compassion toward each other. Then, and only then will we be able to turn this sad state of affairs around and move forward to again making this the very best and most respected country in the world.