Dock Damage

NoBozo · 06-07-2012, 10:11 AM

rgilfert: That's a pretty solid looking dock. As Slickcraft mentioned, the uprights on HIS dock go right to the bottom. I have seen uprights on the dock where I stay during vacation, just like yours..ie Not touching the bottom..they also wobble more than I would like. In addition, they are only Nailed to the facia. I think the Idea is to be "Break Away" if the ice gets hold of them.

I would do like Slickcraft has done..fasten with carriage bolts..BUT I would Remove ALL the uprights in winter. (Circulators on rattlesnake probably are not practical because of power outages.)

With the uprights Solidly on the bottom you can add some weight to the deck to keep it from floating UP off the T-Phone poles...IF that were likely. I'll take a guess that the T-Phone poles are embedded in concrete beneath the stones, which would also help to hold the breakwater together as well.

NB

Slickcraft · 06-07-2012, 10:53 AM

By the way, I made an error is saying that I use carriage bolts to secure the posts to the 4X8 frame. In fact I use 5/8" galvanized hex head bolts so that they can be removed each fall after removing the decking strip next to each post. You will have to counter-sink the hex bolt heads on the outside of the post. Carriage bolts will lose their purchase making removal difficult.

Photo shows damage from ice sheet that came in from the south and took hold of the posts two years ago.

jmen24 · 06-07-2012, 10:59 AM

If the concern is that the water will lift the dock sections off the structural framing, then you can solve that by installing hurricane straps, linking each component to the next.

Any lumberyard will have them in stock. Long straps wrapped around the poles to the beams and then "hurricane clips" from the beams to each deck joist.

The hurricane clips you would need would be the H2.5AZ's or the H1's: http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/H.asp

The strap for the pole to beam connections: could be as simple as a metal band wrapped around and attached at each end to the cross beams or a cable system. Just don't use eyelets that you would buy at the hardware store, they are not rated and will likely fail if tested by uplift (not likely given the pictures.

For the posts, I would not bed them in the lake bottom for reasons of ice damage and water saturation fatigue in the posts. If you are looking for a simple system that will add a structural element to them (for boat tie off) then I would suggest using these: http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/dptz.asp Bolt the plates to your joists and use structural screws (GRK Screws)to anchor into the post. The beauty of this system is that you will have the ability to remove the posts without having to remove the carraige bolts (requires getting into the water). Use two connectors per post. You can paint these connectors black and it will add a nice clean and finished look to the install.

All hanger nails need to be rated Can't Sag Nails i.e. Joist hanger nails. Leave the common 8D's in the box for this project.

Also add your post padding to ensure that nothing is able to scratch up the boat.

Island Girl · 06-07-2012, 02:38 PM

I went by your dock yesterday... It is fine... Water is high here, though!

Rattlesnake Guy · 06-07-2012, 08:43 PM

At times like this, I wish my dock was as safe as your's is.

ApS · 06-08-2012, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmen24

(snipped)
"...Long straps wrapped around the poles to the beams and then "hurricane clips" from the beams to each deck joist..."

This dock had supporting 4x6s from the breakwater.

Telephone poles sound like a good upgrade.

fatlazyless · 06-08-2012, 08:01 AM

One way to get some telephone poles for free is to ask at the electric utility or telephone company for poles damaged by weather or automobile accident. Sometimes, they have these broken pieces of telephone poles left over from damages.

Steveo · 06-08-2012, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

One way to get some telephone poles for free is to ask at the electric utility or telephone company for poles damaged by weather or automobile accident. Sometimes, they have these broken pieces of telephone poles left over from damages.

Just be careful that they are not poles treated with creosote or other preserving agents - not healthy for the lake.

LIforrelaxin · 06-08-2012, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

One way to get some telephone poles for free is to ask at the electric utility or telephone company for poles damaged by weather or automobile accident. Sometimes, they have these broken pieces of telephone poles left over from damages.

I would not use polls from the telephone company, they are most definitely treated. Older one with creosote as mentioned. Other with new fangled treatment that are supposed to be more environmentally friendly but still harmful to the lake.

As for stability of post on the cantilever docks I have a few suggestions..

--- one if you plan on removing the posts every year as you should, you could always create a footing that you could put the end of the post in that sits on the lake bottom and is heavy enough to help stabilize things... remember however it most be removable from the water.

--- The second is to brace from the bottom of the post back up to the far side of the deck frame. This would be my preferred method....

CanisLupusArctos · 06-08-2012, 03:23 PM

The WeatherCam's site displays the latest lake level reading also. It's only the number and not a graph like Bizer, but it gives a basic idea of what's happening. Also, in the WeatherCam's view, when the water is calm, you can see only ONE tiny bit of Black Cat Shoals showing if the lake level is officially full. No rocks at all means it's above-full. More rock(s) and it's below-full.

06-07-2012, 10:53 AM	#2
Slickcraft Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Welch Island and The Taylor Community Posts: 3,314 Thanks: 1,232 Thanked 2,103 Times in 960 Posts	By the way, I made an error is saying that I use carriage bolts to secure the posts to the 4X8 frame. In fact I use 5/8" galvanized hex head bolts so that they can be removed each fall after removing the decking strip next to each post. You will have to counter-sink the hex bolt heads on the outside of the post. Carriage bolts will lose their purchase making removal difficult. Photo shows damage from ice sheet that came in from the south and took hold of the posts two years ago. Attached Images Last edited by Slickcraft; 06-07-2012 at 11:06 AM. Reason: add photo

06-07-2012, 02:38 PM	#4
Island Girl Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Central MA Posts: 2,352 Thanks: 18 Thanked 535 Times in 179 Posts	Dock is fine, rgilfert I went by your dock yesterday... It is fine... Water is high here, though! __________________ Island Girl ....... Make Lemonade

06-08-2012, 08:01 AM	#7
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,786 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,022 Times in 744 Posts	One way to get some telephone poles for free is to ask at the electric utility or telephone company for poles damaged by weather or automobile accident. Sometimes, they have these broken pieces of telephone poles left over from damages. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

06-07-2012, 10:11 AM	#1
NoBozo Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Portsmouth. RI Posts: 2,231 Thanks: 400 Thanked 460 Times in 308 Posts	rgilfert: That's a pretty solid looking dock. As Slickcraft mentioned, the uprights on HIS dock go right to the bottom. I have seen uprights on the dock where I stay during vacation, just like yours..ie Not touching the bottom..they also wobble more than I would like. In addition, they are only Nailed to the facia. I think the Idea is to be "Break Away" if the ice gets hold of them. I would do like Slickcraft has done..fasten with carriage bolts..BUT I would Remove ALL the uprights in winter. (Circulators on rattlesnake probably are not practical because of power outages.) With the uprights Solidly on the bottom you can add some weight to the deck to keep it from floating UP off the T-Phone poles...IF that were likely. I'll take a guess that the T-Phone poles are embedded in concrete beneath the stones, which would also help to hold the breakwater together as well. NB

06-07-2012, 10:59 AM	#3
jmen24 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,139 Thanks: 223 Thanked 319 Times in 181 Posts	If the concern is that the water will lift the dock sections off the structural framing, then you can solve that by installing hurricane straps, linking each component to the next. Any lumberyard will have them in stock. Long straps wrapped around the poles to the beams and then "hurricane clips" from the beams to each deck joist. The hurricane clips you would need would be the H2.5AZ's or the H1's: http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/H.asp The strap for the pole to beam connections: could be as simple as a metal band wrapped around and attached at each end to the cross beams or a cable system. Just don't use eyelets that you would buy at the hardware store, they are not rated and will likely fail if tested by uplift (not likely given the pictures. For the posts, I would not bed them in the lake bottom for reasons of ice damage and water saturation fatigue in the posts. If you are looking for a simple system that will add a structural element to them (for boat tie off) then I would suggest using these: http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/dptz.asp Bolt the plates to your joists and use structural screws (GRK Screws)to anchor into the post. The beauty of this system is that you will have the ability to remove the posts without having to remove the carraige bolts (requires getting into the water). Use two connectors per post. You can paint these connectors black and it will add a nice clean and finished look to the install. All hanger nails need to be rated Can't Sag Nails i.e. Joist hanger nails. Leave the common 8D's in the box for this project. Also add your post padding to ensure that nothing is able to scratch up the boat.

The Following User Says Thank You to Island Girl For This Useful Post:
rgilfert (06-07-2012)

06-07-2012, 08:43 PM	#5
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	At times like this, I wish my dock was as safe as your's is.

06-08-2012, 03:23 PM	#10
CanisLupusArctos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Center Harbor Posts: 1,049 Thanks: 15 Thanked 472 Times in 107 Posts	The WeatherCam's site displays the latest lake level reading also. It's only the number and not a graph like Bizer, but it gives a basic idea of what's happening. Also, in the WeatherCam's view, when the water is calm, you can see only ONE tiny bit of Black Cat Shoals showing if the lake level is officially full. No rocks at all means it's above-full. More rock(s) and it's below-full.