Credit Card Fraud ?

Lakegeezer · 07-26-2012, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoBozo

FRANKLY: I have no idea why anyone NEEDS more than ONE (personal) Credit Card...

How about one for internet transactions and another for real-world use? In my case, I use three - with the third tied to my PalPal account. The goal is to isolate fraud. There have also been times that the bank's anti-fraud software threw a false positive and my card was denied (for example: bought gas and then a trailer within an hour). Having a second card to eliminate one of life's little hassles (unjustified denial) is priceless.

But, for all the stories of fraud, has anyone had problems reversing the charges? The few times that my card has been misused, it only took a call to the credit card company to fix the problem and issue me a new number.

hilltopper · 07-26-2012, 09:30 AM

I had someone hack into our checking account and make fraudulent charges in Canada. My wife often used the check card, where I would use a credit card, so someone got our accound number from the check card. It's a lot more unnerving when they hack directly into a checking account. In that case it is YOUR money. It was reimbursed without hassle but the wife is constantly reminded to use the rewards credit card and not the check card.

SAMIAM · 07-26-2012, 09:53 AM

We don't do any business or personal banking on line. Just too many hackers out there.
I do, however use a business credit card that gives me airline miles for most of my business supplies. Most vendors are glad to do it even though they lose a few 0/0 $$ because they get paid right on the spot. We, in turn pay our monthly bill in full when it comes in so we don't pay any interest.
Love to fly for free.

JasonG · 07-26-2012, 06:06 PM

I have owned many retail stores and merchant accounts. I have seen all sides of this. I have received chargebacks, had to file them too.

Tourist areas are high risk. Recently I was in Key West and my bank called me because they suspected my card # was leaked to a merchant in TX using a "test charge". Thinking back I used the card a lot. It may not be the merchant, but an employee taking an magnetic imprint of the card.

Yes you are protected against fraud. If you question something, just pay cash, its easier, especially with a small street merchant. Good idea to recycle the card # every 3-6 months if you use it that much.

wifi · 07-26-2012, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

....But, for all the stories of fraud, has anyone had problems reversing the charges? The few times that my card has been misused, it only took a call to the credit card company to fix the problem and issue me a new number.

I have. The credit card company calls the charger, and the charger must agree to reverse the charge. In this case, they didn't want to lose the $$, and I had a choice of ruining my credit, swallowing hard, or hiring a lawyer and paying more than the charge.....

dpg · 07-26-2012, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wifi

I have. The credit card company calls the charger, and the charger must agree to reverse the charge. In this case, they didn't want to lose the $$, and I had a choice of ruining my credit, swallowing hard, or hiring a lawyer and paying more than the charge.....

I hope you dropped them, you should not have to pay.

wifi · 07-26-2012, 07:45 PM

I did change

JasonG · 07-29-2012, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wifi

I have. The credit card company calls the charger, and the charger must agree to reverse the charge. In this case, they didn't want to lose the $$, and I had a choice of ruining my credit, swallowing hard, or hiring a lawyer and paying more than the charge.....

This is only partially true. If the charge was fraud, you are not liable, period. But you need to prove this, which usually involves matching signatures or a statement from yourself. Merchant loses out. If it is a disagreement of services with the merchant, that takes on a whole new level with many variables.

On a side note, taking fraud out of the picture to give a PSA...... Merchants are responsible for getting you what you paid for. If you order something via mail / internet and it doesnt arrive, arrives broken, or not as described, you can file a claim with your card company ( or ebay/amazon ). Merchants are responsible for getting you what you paid for, as described.

Anything else is unacceptable. Dont ever let a merchant tell you that it isnt their concern because it arrived broken, lost, etc because you didnt pay for insurance, sign something, etc. Insurance is a merchants responsibility and has no direct bearing to a buyers right to receive something they paid for.

tis · 07-29-2012, 07:38 AM

We just received new cards in the mail. Apparently ours were compromised but we haven't seen any charges. This is the 4th or 5th time. The most interesting charge we had was a permit for something to a city in the midwest.

SteveA · 07-29-2012, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonG

On a side note, taking fraud out of the picture to give a PSA...... Merchants are responsible for getting you what you paid for. If you order something via mail / internet and it doesnt arrive, arrives broken, or not as described, you can file a claim with your card company ( or ebay/amazon ). Merchants are responsible for getting you what you paid for, as described. .

This is excellent advice! I buy on Amazon often, and anytime I get a defective product, and I have on several occasions, they are VERY good at getting it replaced or returned. Never any argument. I have found Discover and American Express to be the easiest to deal with on returns or defective products.

JasonG · 07-30-2012, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveA

This is excellent advice! I buy on Amazon often, and anytime I get a defective product, and I have on several occasions, they are VERY good at getting it replaced or returned. Never any argument. I have found Discover and American Express to be the easiest to deal with on returns or defective products.

I am an avid ebay and amazon seller and have been for over a decade. Even wrote a book about it... which I ironically sell on ebay and amazon.

Amazon is BIG on customer service and enforces its independent sellers to follow suit. The bottom line is if you use a credit card and you dont get what you paid for 100%, file a claim within a reasonable amount of time and you will win.

dpg · 08-02-2012, 11:56 AM

I agree something in Wifi's post doesnt sound right. If the credit card co. was notified and told the charge was fraudulant everything should of stopped right there. Don't get how he/she was made to pay or at least given a hard time.

jrc · 08-02-2012, 01:30 PM

I thinkl ther difference is dissatifcation vs fraud. If you call them and say Bob's restaurant charged me for a steak and it was burned, I told them I wouldn't pay but they charged me anyway. That's going to be a dispute.

But if call them and say I never went to the Bob's restaurant in Boise, as a matter of fact I've never been to Idaho. Why is there a $100 charge on my card? That's fraud, you should never have to pay more than $50.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/cons...dit/cre07.shtm

wifi · 08-02-2012, 07:49 PM

What I was trying to indicate, was that the bank said the "chargor" had to agree that the charge was fraudulent, otherwise, I needed to prove I didn't purchase the item or receive the service. To me, this is un-American, I won't prove my innocence.... well, lets not get into that

Most merchants are honest, and as mentioned Amazon whips its associates into shape. I had one that shipped me the wrong item, then denied it, one email to Amazon, and it was straightened up. Just beware if the merchant insists you got what you got charged, to preserve their bottom line, you might have a problem on your hands.

brk-lnt · 08-02-2012, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wifi

What I was trying to indicate, was that the bank said the "chargor" had to agree that the charge was fraudulent, otherwise, I needed to prove I didn't purchase the item or receive the service.

Your experience is very different than most peoples. I've filed a few claims over the years (mostly disputes for wrong charges, or over items that were received damaged/not as described). In every case my cards (Visa, MC, Amex) have given an immediate provisional credit. THEN they contact the merchant, who has to produce proof that my claim is without merit. In every case after about 6-8 weeks the provisional credit became permanent.

I've also been on the other end of this as a merchant, and can tell you that things are heavily biased in the card holders favor.

I'm not disputing what you experienced, but I do think that is very very atypical.

tis · 08-03-2012, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Your experience is very different than most peoples. I've filed a few claims over the years (mostly disputes for wrong charges, or over items that were received damaged/not as described). In every case my cards (Visa, MC, Amex) have given an immediate provisional credit. THEN they contact the merchant, who has to produce proof that my claim is without merit. In every case after about 6-8 weeks the provisional credit became permanent.

I've also been on the other end of this as a merchant, and can tell you that things are heavily biased in the card holders favor.

I'm not disputing what you experienced, but I do think that is very very atypical.

And it is expensive for the business to have a charge questioned. Last I knew it was 50$ but probably a lot more now.

brk-lnt · 08-03-2012, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

And it is expensive for the business to have a charge questioned. Last I knew it was 50$ but probably a lot more now.

It's been a while sinceI had my last business and did any volume of credit card activity, but I don't recall there being a fee associated with the chargebacks. We were mostly bigger ticket items (home theater, etc.), so a $50 fee on a $3000 chargeback wouldn't have been my primary concern

tis · 08-03-2012, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

It's been a while sinceI had my last business and did any volume of credit card activity, but I don't recall there being a fee associated with the chargebacks. We were mostly bigger ticket items (home theater, etc.), so a $50 fee on a $3000 chargeback wouldn't have been my primary concern

Still 50$ can add up if you get a lot of it.

jsn · 08-05-2012, 09:02 AM

Two kids (young adults) and I have had our bank card numbers( Bank of America) used fraudulently. None of us lost or misplaced our cards. All cards had airline tickets, hotel rooms and even porn on them! The only lead Bank of America could find on one card was that concert tickets had been bought through Live Nation and that is where they suspected the numbers had been hacked from. The other two cards were used for purchases initiating somewhere in Eastern Europe.
Now, each of us has one specific card to use for online business so that if it's stolen it will not result in taking finds from our savings/checking accounts.

DRH · 08-05-2012, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsn

Two kids (young adults) and I have had our bank card numbers( Bank of America) used fraudulently. None of us lost or misplaced our cards. All cards had airline tickets, hotel rooms and even porn on them! The only lead Bank of America could find on one card was that concert tickets had been bought through Live Nation and that is where they suspected the numbers had been hacked from. The other two cards were used for purchases initiating somewhere in Eastern Europe.
Now, each of us has one specific card to use for online business so that if it's stolen it will not result in taking finds from our savings/checking accounts.

Are the cards you are discussing debit cards or credit cards? If they are credit cards, I suggest you use Bank of America's "ShopSafe" service when ordering anything online. ShopSafe assigns you a different "alias" card number, expiration date, and CCV code for each purchase. You choose the maximum amount that can be charged to each "alias" number and when it will expire. Each purchase using ShopSafe actually posts to your real credit card account, but the vendor at the other end of the transaction never sees your real number. We've been using ShopSafe for several years and it works great.

07-26-2012, 09:30 AM	#2
hilltopper Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Meredith Posts: 727 Thanks: 25 Thanked 109 Times in 70 Posts	I had someone hack into our checking account and make fraudulent charges in Canada. My wife often used the check card, where I would use a credit card, so someone got our accound number from the check card. It's a lot more unnerving when they hack directly into a checking account. In that case it is YOUR money. It was reimbursed without hassle but the wife is constantly reminded to use the rewards credit card and not the check card.

07-26-2012, 09:53 AM	#3
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,920 Thanks: 341 Thanked 1,693 Times in 595 Posts	We don't do any business or personal banking on line. Just too many hackers out there. I do, however use a business credit card that gives me airline miles for most of my business supplies. Most vendors are glad to do it even though they lose a few 0/0 $$ because they get paid right on the spot. We, in turn pay our monthly bill in full when it comes in so we don't pay any interest. Love to fly for free.

07-26-2012, 06:06 PM	#4
JasonG Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 310 Thanks: 48 Thanked 45 Times in 33 Posts	I have owned many retail stores and merchant accounts. I have seen all sides of this. I have received chargebacks, had to file them too. Tourist areas are high risk. Recently I was in Key West and my bank called me because they suspected my card # was leaked to a merchant in TX using a "test charge". Thinking back I used the card a lot. It may not be the merchant, but an employee taking an magnetic imprint of the card. Yes you are protected against fraud. If you question something, just pay cash, its easier, especially with a small street merchant. Good idea to recycle the card # every 3-6 months if you use it that much.

07-26-2012, 07:45 PM	#7
wifi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Lakes Region Posts: 1,321 Thanks: 282 Thanked 287 Times in 169 Posts	I did change

The Following User Says Thank You to JasonG For This Useful Post:
SteveA (07-29-2012)

07-29-2012, 07:38 AM	#9
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,814 Thanks: 759 Thanked 1,469 Times in 1,025 Posts	We just received new cards in the mail. Apparently ours were compromised but we haven't seen any charges. This is the 4th or 5th time. The most interesting charge we had was a permit for something to a city in the midwest.

08-02-2012, 11:56 AM	#12
dpg Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,618 Thanks: 157 Thanked 235 Times in 172 Posts	I agree something in Wifi's post doesnt sound right. If the credit card co. was notified and told the charge was fraudulant everything should of stopped right there. Don't get how he/she was made to pay or at least given a hard time.

08-02-2012, 01:30 PM	#13
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	I thinkl ther difference is dissatifcation vs fraud. If you call them and say Bob's restaurant charged me for a steak and it was burned, I told them I wouldn't pay but they charged me anyway. That's going to be a dispute. But if call them and say I never went to the Bob's restaurant in Boise, as a matter of fact I've never been to Idaho. Why is there a $100 charge on my card? That's fraud, you should never have to pay more than $50. http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/cons...dit/cre07.shtm

08-02-2012, 07:49 PM	#14
wifi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Lakes Region Posts: 1,321 Thanks: 282 Thanked 287 Times in 169 Posts	What I was trying to indicate, was that the bank said the "chargor" had to agree that the charge was fraudulent, otherwise, I needed to prove I didn't purchase the item or receive the service. To me, this is un-American, I won't prove my innocence.... well, lets not get into that Most merchants are honest, and as mentioned Amazon whips its associates into shape. I had one that shipped me the wrong item, then denied it, one email to Amazon, and it was straightened up. Just beware if the merchant insists you got what you got charged, to preserve their bottom line, you might have a problem on your hands.

08-05-2012, 09:02 AM	#19
jsn Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 21 Thanks: 10 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Two kids (young adults) and I have had our bank card numbers( Bank of America) used fraudulently. None of us lost or misplaced our cards. All cards had airline tickets, hotel rooms and even porn on them! The only lead Bank of America could find on one card was that concert tickets had been bought through Live Nation and that is where they suspected the numbers had been hacked from. The other two cards were used for purchases initiating somewhere in Eastern Europe. Now, each of us has one specific card to use for online business so that if it's stolen it will not result in taking finds from our savings/checking accounts.