Winterization date???

jazzman · 10-17-2012, 11:30 PM

How long do you wait to winterize??? I'd love to eek another couple weeks out, but I'm getting worried about night time freeze up in my cabin.

I'm staying here, so the temp stays reasonable inside during the day because I use portable heaters or fire up the wood stove if it gets real cold, but the pipes are all exposed under the house and the pump / pressure tank / hw tank are all in a shed hanging off the back of the house.

I assume all that fairly warm water out there in the lake must buffer the temps a little.

Of course the water is getting shallow off the dock too... Maybe it's all a sign that it's time to wax skis.

MDoug · 10-18-2012, 05:32 AM

We close camp on Bear Oct. 24. The lake water seems to keep our pipes warm enough to prevent freezing--so far. Archie drains pipes and winterizes for us when we leave.

Slickcraft · 10-18-2012, 07:53 AM

You should be OK for two more weeks. With warm lake, warm ground and seasonal day temps, it would take a very hard freeze to burst a pipe. We normally take the water out on Welch the last week in Oct.

tis · 10-18-2012, 08:07 AM

If you are staying there and it gets really cold at night, just leave the faucets dripping just a tiny bit and they won't freeze.

DickR · 10-18-2012, 10:32 AM

You can install a little insurance in the form of sheet polyethylene to isolate the piping from the breeze. With the pipes underneath the cabin, the ground and the cabin floor above both will radiate heat to the pipes and keep them from freezing on a windless night that drops into the upper 20s. But if you have a breeze moving cold air past the pipes then you could well see freezing in the pipes. If the cold night is just from radiational cooling in a clear sky with no wind to mix things up, you'll be fine. If the cold air is behind a high pressure area still building in from the northwest, there'll be a breeze along with the cold.

Years ago, at our first camp, I thought I could get away until my usual end-of-October shutdown. One old night with a breeze behind it came two days before shutdown, and it cost me a weekend underneath fixing split piping and popped joints.

NoBozo · 10-18-2012, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

If you are staying there and it gets really cold at night, just leave the faucets dripping just a tiny bit and they won't freeze.

Drip Drip: This works if your Soil Pipe is in a warm space. If the Soil Pipe is exposed to freezing temps..like under the cabin, the dripping water will build up ICE in the Soil Pipe. Sooner or later, when you flush the toilet, the sewage will STOP at the Ice Plug. Totally messy to clean up.

NB

tis · 10-18-2012, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoBozo

Drip Drip: This works if your Soil Pipe is in a warm space. If the Soil Pipe is exposed to freezing temps..like under the cabin, the dripping water will build up ICE in the Soil Pipe. Sooner or later, when you flush the toilet, the sewage will STOP at the Ice Plug. Totally messy to clean up.

NB

Well, I thought he meant just for a few more weeks until he has to leave for the winter. Of course exposed pipes will freeze when it's really cold.

moose tracks · 10-18-2012, 06:55 PM

We have made it a tradition to close up on Veteran’s Day. We have a basement and do not have exposed pipes. We never had a problem with frozen pipes.

camp guy · 10-18-2012, 10:05 PM

Personally, I would winterize sooner than later, simply because later may be lousy weather and the whole winterizing process will be that much more complicated and certainly unpleasant.

It is seductive to want to stretch it our one more weekend, then maybe, one more, but this is New Hampshire and you can bet that the cold and unpleasant weather is coming, even if we do have some pleasant days sprinkled about.

The potential damage and ensuing repairs just aren't worth a few hours more of cottage life. If you put the cottage up for the winter while it is still marginally pleasant, you will have good memories to carry you through to the spring. A stretch of bad weather now, during which you have to winterize, will leave you with a 'taste' in your mouth all during the off season.

Just my thoughts.

jazzman · 10-19-2012, 06:07 PM

So I'm not having much luck getting the guy who winterized my new place for years to call me back... Looks like someone carefully laid the plumbing out since there are handy hot and cold water drains you can get to without even getting dirty. I've got a compressor, so I can easily drain the lines and blow them out.

I'm a little perplexed about what to do with the water pump though. I have one mounted to the top of the pressure tank. The rubber hose looks to go maybe 50+ feet into the lake and it looks like there are sand bags holding it in place. It doesn't look like this has been pulled out every year (and who would want to put the sand bags back in the cold water in May). There are also no signs that the pump has been pulled every year (fittings are kind of rusty and there are no wrench marks).

Does the pump drain along with the rest of the system and can you leave the rubber hose in the lake for the winter? The hose looks like it's carefully threaded gown through rocks at the shore line (to protect it from ice damage)?

Slickcraft · 10-19-2012, 06:36 PM

There should be a brass drain plug on lower face of the pump. Also a drain valve on the bottom of the tank.

The hose to the lake needs to be removed from the lake and drained. There should be a coupling in the hose that can be disconnected so that water will drain from the pump down to that point. The lower section can then be pulled for the lake, it will have a check valve on the end with a strainer. Take this end uphill so all the water drains out of this section. Cover the uncoupled hose ends with cloth and twine keeping the mice out.

Bear Island South · 10-19-2012, 09:48 PM

We close up and winterize on Thanksgiving weekend, our experience has been 7 seasons and no problems with pipes freezing. We have seen all kinds of weather, it is always an adventure.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...t=closing+camp

Pine Island Guy · 10-20-2012, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzman

So I'm not having much luck getting the guy who winterized my new place for years to call me back... Looks like someone carefully laid the plumbing out since there are handy hot and cold water drains you can get to without even getting dirty. I've got a compressor, so I can easily drain the lines and blow them out.

Misty Blue gave me a nice tip that saved my a lot of time and energy... cut your plastic intake pipe down close to the water, and install a coupling "T" with a standard boiler valve on the "T"... this way you can open the valve and drain the entire house down, then hook up your compressor at the "T" and blow any remaining water out of the system, including the pump and tank... I go around and open/close one faucet, toilet, etc at a time until nothing else is coming out, then do it again just to make sure...

The nice thing is that in the spring, you can hook up a little pump (I've used a $6.99 "drill pump" on my electric drill), to the same boiler valve, and prime the entire system, then close the valve...

What a beautiful day today on the lake, wow!!! PIG

camp guy · 10-20-2012, 06:53 PM

jazzman - even though you said you can't seem to get in touch with the gentleman who winterized your house previously, I'd make the humble suggestion that you keep trying, but be prepared with a Plan B. There may be some little idiosyncracies about your house that are very important, the consequences of which might be serious.

If you are stuck, a competent plumber could handle the job.

The suggestions given on this site are all very accurate, and with that having been said, it is very nice to have a working relationship with a plumber on a year round basis just in case a need arises beyound your personal capabilities.

Good luck.

IslandRadio · 10-22-2012, 11:51 AM

Closed up this weekend (Oct 21st). Usually do close up the 3rd weekend in Oct., although one year we did stay on for another week.

For some reason, everyone who lives on the Island near to our place closes up Columbus day, which seems WAY too early - particularly this year.

Personally, I would have kept it open another week, but the IslandPrincess was reasonably insistent

codeman671 · 10-22-2012, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzman

So I'm not having much luck getting the guy who winterized my new place for years to call me back...

Did you call Steve at Island Support? He got to mine within 2 days of calling.

jazzman · 10-22-2012, 01:22 PM

I did finally get a call back from the guy has been winterizing the place for years... Hopefully he'll do it on a day I can watch.

I'm still puzzled by my water source hose that enters the water behind a bunch of rocks and then through a good sized chunk of 4" PVC. It sure looks like it's meant to stay there through the winter.

I'm still trying for 2 more weeks.

riverat · 10-25-2012, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pine Island Guy

Misty Blue gave me a nice tip that saved my a lot of time and energy... cut your plastic intake pipe down close to the water, and install a coupling "T" with a standard boiler valve on the "T"... this way you can open the valve and drain the entire house down, then hook up your compressor at the "T" and blow any remaining water out of the system, including the pump and tank... I go around and open/close one faucet, toilet, etc at a time until nothing else is coming out, then do it again just to make sure...

The nice thing is that in the spring, you can hook up a little pump (I've used a $6.99 "drill pump" on my electric drill), to the same boiler valve, and prime the entire system, then close the valve...

What a beautiful day today on the lake, wow!!! PIG

Also do not forget to put non-toxic antifreeze into your drains and toilet tank and such, I always disconnect the compressor and pour some in the line and reconnect and than crack each faucet until a little comes out of each to insure any bellies in the pipes that may hold water are protected.

Dave M · 11-08-2012, 02:02 PM

I just closed my camp on 11/3. I was watching the weather.
Just a couple of other things.
When I put in a new bath in I put a "T" with and 90D elbow with a plug on the cold line to the shower control. When I winterize I put volume control in the middle, undo the plug and pour antifreeze until it comes out of the tub faucet. Protects the control, would be a job to replace. I have tongue & groove knotty pine boards for walls. Just put a knob on one of the boards and pull out 3 sections(not nailed) to get to back of control.
Also on the dripping, I use an outside faucet, don't have to worry about anything. Use a gutter piece to move water away from house if you want to increase volume a bit

Dave M

jazzman · 11-08-2012, 09:56 PM

I finally bailed out on 11/6... Webcam shows snow on the dock today, so I guess I cut it close.

FWIW, my pump plumbing does live in the lake for the winter. The plumber who has taken care of the place for years says it's never been an issue because mine and the neighbor's breakwaters are fairly close together and the pump lines are in between them.

ApS · 11-09-2012, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzman

FWIW, my pump plumbing does live in the lake for the winter.

Fifty-five years ago, our maintenance guy always removed the pipe going into the lake; however, it was galvanized pipe. When that pipe became perforated with leaks, it was replaced with black plastic water piping. Our neighbors never removed their plastic pipe from the lake: my only concession to the freezing problem was to install a hose bib "tee" below the surface—probably an unnecessary extra step. "Cracking" the hose bib gives some comfort over winter, then I use a boat-hook to lift it above the surface to close it in April.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

If you are staying there and it gets really cold at night, just leave the faucets dripping just a tiny bit and they won't freeze.

That works; however, I've found a huge block of ice below the hose bib!

From the "Wayback Machine", another thread on closing up:
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=1241

Here's a comprehensive "closing-up checklist"...:
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=3980

10-17-2012, 11:30 PM	#1
jazzman Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Mont Vernon NH & Big Barndoor Island Posts: 327 Thanks: 4 Thanked 185 Times in 63 Posts	Winterization date??? How long do you wait to winterize??? I'd love to eek another couple weeks out, but I'm getting worried about night time freeze up in my cabin. I'm staying here, so the temp stays reasonable inside during the day because I use portable heaters or fire up the wood stove if it gets real cold, but the pipes are all exposed under the house and the pump / pressure tank / hw tank are all in a shed hanging off the back of the house. I assume all that fairly warm water out there in the lake must buffer the temps a little. Of course the water is getting shallow off the dock too... Maybe it's all a sign that it's time to wax skis.

10-18-2012, 05:32 AM	#2
MDoug Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 343 Thanks: 116 Thanked 42 Times in 39 Posts	Winterization We close camp on Bear Oct. 24. The lake water seems to keep our pipes warm enough to prevent freezing--so far. Archie drains pipes and winterizes for us when we leave.

10-18-2012, 06:55 PM	#8
moose tracks Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Loudon, Tennessee, foothills of the Great Smoky Mountains Posts: 283 Thanks: 336 Thanked 41 Times in 33 Posts	Veteran's Day We have made it a tradition to close up on Veteran’s Day. We have a basement and do not have exposed pipes. We never had a problem with frozen pipes. __________________ Moose Tracks

10-18-2012, 10:05 PM	#9
camp guy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: formerly Winter Harbor, still Wolfeboro Posts: 1,224 Thanks: 317 Thanked 560 Times in 310 Posts	Winterization date Personally, I would winterize sooner than later, simply because later may be lousy weather and the whole winterizing process will be that much more complicated and certainly unpleasant. It is seductive to want to stretch it our one more weekend, then maybe, one more, but this is New Hampshire and you can bet that the cold and unpleasant weather is coming, even if we do have some pleasant days sprinkled about. The potential damage and ensuing repairs just aren't worth a few hours more of cottage life. If you put the cottage up for the winter while it is still marginally pleasant, you will have good memories to carry you through to the spring. A stretch of bad weather now, during which you have to winterize, will leave you with a 'taste' in your mouth all during the off season. Just my thoughts.

10-19-2012, 06:07 PM	#10
jazzman Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Mont Vernon NH & Big Barndoor Island Posts: 327 Thanks: 4 Thanked 185 Times in 63 Posts	How do you winterize your water pump So I'm not having much luck getting the guy who winterized my new place for years to call me back... Looks like someone carefully laid the plumbing out since there are handy hot and cold water drains you can get to without even getting dirty. I've got a compressor, so I can easily drain the lines and blow them out. I'm a little perplexed about what to do with the water pump though. I have one mounted to the top of the pressure tank. The rubber hose looks to go maybe 50+ feet into the lake and it looks like there are sand bags holding it in place. It doesn't look like this has been pulled out every year (and who would want to put the sand bags back in the cold water in May). There are also no signs that the pump has been pulled every year (fittings are kind of rusty and there are no wrench marks). Does the pump drain along with the rest of the system and can you leave the rubber hose in the lake for the winter? The hose looks like it's carefully threaded gown through rocks at the shore line (to protect it from ice damage)?

10-18-2012, 07:53 AM	#3
Slickcraft Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Welch Island and The Taylor Community Posts: 3,384 Thanks: 1,260 Thanked 2,148 Times in 983 Posts	You should be OK for two more weeks. With warm lake, warm ground and seasonal day temps, it would take a very hard freeze to burst a pipe. We normally take the water out on Welch the last week in Oct.

10-18-2012, 08:07 AM	#4
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,941 Thanks: 795 Thanked 1,493 Times in 1,040 Posts	If you are staying there and it gets really cold at night, just leave the faucets dripping just a tiny bit and they won't freeze.

10-18-2012, 10:32 AM	#5
DickR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 764 Thanks: 4 Thanked 260 Times in 172 Posts	You can install a little insurance in the form of sheet polyethylene to isolate the piping from the breeze. With the pipes underneath the cabin, the ground and the cabin floor above both will radiate heat to the pipes and keep them from freezing on a windless night that drops into the upper 20s. But if you have a breeze moving cold air past the pipes then you could well see freezing in the pipes. If the cold night is just from radiational cooling in a clear sky with no wind to mix things up, you'll be fine. If the cold air is behind a high pressure area still building in from the northwest, there'll be a breeze along with the cold. Years ago, at our first camp, I thought I could get away until my usual end-of-October shutdown. One old night with a breeze behind it came two days before shutdown, and it cost me a weekend underneath fixing split piping and popped joints.

10-19-2012, 06:36 PM	#11
Slickcraft Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Welch Island and The Taylor Community Posts: 3,384 Thanks: 1,260 Thanked 2,148 Times in 983 Posts	There should be a brass drain plug on lower face of the pump. Also a drain valve on the bottom of the tank. The hose to the lake needs to be removed from the lake and drained. There should be a coupling in the hose that can be disconnected so that water will drain from the pump down to that point. The lower section can then be pulled for the lake, it will have a check valve on the end with a strainer. Take this end uphill so all the water drains out of this section. Cover the uncoupled hose ends with cloth and twine keeping the mice out.

The Following User Says Thank You to Slickcraft For This Useful Post:
jazzman (10-19-2012)

10-19-2012, 09:48 PM	#12
Bear Island South Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Southboro, MA Posts: 579 Thanks: 75 Thanked 384 Times in 170 Posts	Thanksgiving for us We close up and winterize on Thanksgiving weekend, our experience has been 7 seasons and no problems with pipes freezing. We have seen all kinds of weather, it is always an adventure. http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...t=closing+camp

The Following User Says Thank You to Bear Island South For This Useful Post:
Bear247 (10-20-2012)

The Following User Says Thank You to Pine Island Guy For This Useful Post:
Slickcraft (10-20-2012)

10-20-2012, 06:53 PM	#14
camp guy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: formerly Winter Harbor, still Wolfeboro Posts: 1,224 Thanks: 317 Thanked 560 Times in 310 Posts	Winterization... jazzman - even though you said you can't seem to get in touch with the gentleman who winterized your house previously, I'd make the humble suggestion that you keep trying, but be prepared with a Plan B. There may be some little idiosyncracies about your house that are very important, the consequences of which might be serious. If you are stuck, a competent plumber could handle the job. The suggestions given on this site are all very accurate, and with that having been said, it is very nice to have a working relationship with a plumber on a year round basis just in case a need arises beyound your personal capabilities. Good luck.

10-22-2012, 11:51 AM	#15
IslandRadio Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Mirror Lake - Full time resident Posts: 398 Thanks: 70 Thanked 156 Times in 61 Posts	Closed up this weekend (Oct 21st). Usually do close up the 3rd weekend in Oct., although one year we did stay on for another week. For some reason, everyone who lives on the Island near to our place closes up Columbus day, which seems WAY too early - particularly this year. Personally, I would have kept it open another week, but the IslandPrincess was reasonably insistent

10-22-2012, 01:22 PM	#17
jazzman Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Mont Vernon NH & Big Barndoor Island Posts: 327 Thanks: 4 Thanked 185 Times in 63 Posts	I did finally get a call back from the guy has been winterizing the place for years... Hopefully he'll do it on a day I can watch. I'm still puzzled by my water source hose that enters the water behind a bunch of rocks and then through a good sized chunk of 4" PVC. It sure looks like it's meant to stay there through the winter. I'm still trying for 2 more weeks.

11-08-2012, 02:02 PM	#19
Dave M Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 395 Thanks: 4 Thanked 26 Times in 24 Posts	I just closed my camp on 11/3. I was watching the weather. Just a couple of other things. When I put in a new bath in I put a "T" with and 90D elbow with a plug on the cold line to the shower control. When I winterize I put volume control in the middle, undo the plug and pour antifreeze until it comes out of the tub faucet. Protects the control, would be a job to replace. I have tongue & groove knotty pine boards for walls. Just put a knob on one of the boards and pull out 3 sections(not nailed) to get to back of control. Also on the dripping, I use an outside faucet, don't have to worry about anything. Use a gutter piece to move water away from house if you want to increase volume a bit Dave M

11-08-2012, 09:56 PM	#20
jazzman Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Mont Vernon NH & Big Barndoor Island Posts: 327 Thanks: 4 Thanked 185 Times in 63 Posts	I finally bailed out on 11/6... Webcam shows snow on the dock today, so I guess I cut it close. FWIW, my pump plumbing does live in the lake for the winter. The plumber who has taken care of the place for years says it's never been an issue because mine and the neighbor's breakwaters are fairly close together and the pump lines are in between them.