Questions while driving from Wolfeboro to Laconia

[Merrymeeting]

Today we had to run some errands in the Laconia area. A few questions came up along the way.

• Does anyone know what all the tree clearing is for on the eastern side of Alton Bay, across from the Mount Washington dock? I'm surprised I haven't seen anything in the forums about this (or perhaps I missed it).
  While we had seen the logging going on from the Rt. 28 side all summer, never realized how extensive it was and how far down the hill it goes. It's a large area and now that the leaves are gone, it's very noticeable.
• Anyone know how the state determines when to cut trees at a scenic view? The one just after Ellacoya Park, toward Gilford, is one of the prettiest spots on the lake. But the trees in front have grown up so much you almost can't see the view.

Just random thoughts after a drive in the quiet season.

[AC2717]

i cannot answer your questions, but your second point has been a concern of mine for the past 5 years, and sorry I have not brought it up in the past. All the Scenic veiws, not just those, are dissappearing because of this. In this case, I think it is an excellent idea to cut the tree tops down. Don't have to clear the trees but do something with the tops, or otherwise they are and will just become pull over stops

[Just Sold]

I have also seen the area in Alton Bay and it has been that way for over a year. I also do not remember it being discussed here on the forum. It starts at the end of Jewett Farm Road off of Bay Hill Road and goes up the hill to Rt 28. I cannot understand why it was allowed on such a steep hillside right above homes and the lake. I wonder if an individual or developer is planning something for the land. Any of the locals know anything about it?

[Belmont Resident]

I was driving down 11 into Alton and noticed it one weekend, and recently took 28 into Wolfeboro and noticed where they were cutting.
Definitely not close to the lake but it can be clearly seen from 11.
It could be a lot that was purchased by a logging company then raped.
This is a common practice, the big companies buy a lot for X, triple their money logging it, then sell it as a building lot.
Hey, many of the flatlanders will scoop it right up, they don't seem to like tree's.

[upthesaukee]

...but my understanding is that the area was severely overcut and a cease and desist order was executed. No activity in at least a year. Have a friend who lives on Jewett Farm Rd and he is indeed worried about what could happen with torrential rains like Irene.

Where is the oversight on this type of cutting?

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

No activity in at least a year.

I can't say I paid attention that closely, but there was definitely heavy logging equipment coming in and out of the Rt 28 side during this summer.

[upthesaukee]

...but then again, I don't watch it 24/7 . It just seems that the equipment just to the north of the water storage area at the top of Bay Hill Rd has not moved in a long time. Maybe I may be wrong on the year.

[HillBilly]

My sister and also my father live in that area, actually right next door. They were told by the owner that they were going to be doing some logging, but it has been clear cut. If we have some bad rains the hill will be in the lake. The man doing this work has taken just about every tree down and those that he hasn't cut he has dropped trees on them and they now have been broken. If you walk up my sister's driveway it is just a mess, smaller trees are laying all over the area. The neighbors have gone to the town and been told that there is nothing that can be done to stop this because it is private property.

[ghfromaltonbay]

Heard from 1 of the locals that the woman who owns the property needed money so she contracted a logger. I don't know who the logging company is, but it looks like they did a real lousy job and have left a lot of broken trees and quite a mess on the steep hillside. Driving back from Wolfeboro in late September there was a logging truck being loaded with trees at the work area off Rt. 28. Not only does the hillside look like it would pose a mudslide danger, but it also would be a fire hazard during drought conditions. Looks like some of the devastation after the ice storm several winters back. Can't believe no laws were broken.

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by ghfromaltonbay

Heard from 1 of the locals that the woman who owns the property needed money so she contracted a logger. I don't know who the logging company is, but it looks like they did a real lousy job and have left a lot of broken trees and quite a mess on the steep hillside. Driving back from Wolfeboro in late September there was a logging truck being loaded with trees at the work area off Rt. 28. Not only does the hillside look like it would pose a mudslide danger, but it also would be a fire hazard during drought conditions. Looks like some of the devastation after the ice storm several winters back. Can't believe no laws were broken.

We could be getting a significant amount of rain from a possible hurricane or tropical storm next week.
While there are loggers out there who do a nice clean job, there are others who make a mess and call it logging. We had a bad experience with a logger from tilton that left us with a bad taste for loggers.

[ghfromaltonbay]

Originally Posted by HillBilly

My sister and also my father live in that area, actually right next door. They were told by the owner that they were going to be doing some logging, but it has been clear cut. If we have some bad rains the hill will be in the lake. The man doing this work has taken just about every tree down and those that he hasn't cut he has dropped trees on them and they now have been broken. If you walk up my sister's driveway it is just a mess, smaller trees are laying all over the area. The neighbors have gone to the town and been told that there is nothing that can be done to stop this because it is private property.

The devastation is quite visible from our place on the west side of the bay. One dry & very windy day in Sept. we could see dust swirling on the hillside, and I've noticed that at night you can now see the headlights of cars travelling north on Rt. 28. Hope the heavy rains we're supposed to get on the east coast don't create a mudslide. I also hope that someone clears all the debris. It looks like a natural disaster occurred rather than a planned logging job.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Positively shocking!

[songkrai]

From what I gather from original post.

Too many trees are cut down on private property.
Does owner of private property have the right to cut down trees?

Not enough trees cut down on scenic view.
Should trees be cut down for a scenic view?

A dichotomy of a dilemma.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

While there are loggers out there who do a nice clean job, there are others who make a mess and call it logging. We had a bad experience with a logger from tilton that left us with a bad taste for loggers.

Belmont Resident: I continue to be surprised by your wacky thought process. Today's example is shown by your two sentences above. In the first sentence you imply strongly that we shouldn't generalize and then in the next sentence you generalize! Such confusion. Do you sometimes get lost going to work?

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Belmont Resident: I continue to be surprised by your wacky thought process. Today's example is shown by your two sentences above. In the first sentence you imply strongly that we shouldn't generalize and then in the next sentence you generalize! Such confusion. Do you sometimes get lost going to work?

Seriously?
Where exactly did I put in the comment that YOU should not generalize? Am I missing something?
I simply stated that many do a great job while others do not.
I also stated (in not so many words) that based on several years of problems that we had, that at one point involved the local police, I personally have no love for loggers in general. That is a personal opinion and it is based on our experiences.
Remember that old saying all it takes is that one bad apple to turn your opinion sour even after all those good experiences.
So now if I was to see a logger starting work in the hundreds of acres behind out property, I would expect the worst but hope for the best.
To agree or disagree with a post is fine but your just being childish by dissecting what others say!

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by songkrai

From what I gather from original post.

Too many trees are cut down on private property.
Does owner of private property have the right to cut down trees?

Not enough trees cut down on scenic view.
Should trees be cut down for a scenic view?

A dichotomy of a dilemma.

I realized the dichotomy when I posted. But I also think you are reading more into my post than written.

I never said there were too many trees cut. I asked if anyone knew why they were cut.

I do find the extent of the devastation (that's what I would call it) troubling, but sometimes there are valid reasons.

I know there need to be lines drawn somewhere. But to me the real dichotomy is that an individual shorefront lot is in violation of the Shoreland Protection Act if even a single tree is cut within 50' of the shore, yet something like this can be done when it is very clear that it will impact the lake in a big way.

As for the scenic views, there are lots of ways to clear the view without adversely impacting the overall vegetation and watershed. Some trees if regularly clipped will grow fuller and stay just as healthy.

[John A. Birdsall]

I was totally surprised that these people were allowed to do this, it is dangerous and they must have gotten a permit from the town of Alton and or the state. They can destroy the landscape but cannot get a cell tower to be built cause they are ugly. Sorry but I think that little cottage by the lake is gonna get destroyed.

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

I realized the dichotomy when I posted. But I also think you are reading more into my post than written.

I never said there were too many trees cut. I asked if anyone knew why they were cut.

I do find the extent of the devastation (that's what I would call it) troubling, but sometimes there are valid reasons.

I know there need to be lines drawn somewhere. But to me the real dichotomy is that an individual shorefront lot is in violation of the Shoreland Protection Act if even a single tree is cut within 50' of the shore, yet something like this can be done when it is very clear that it will impact the lake in a big way.

As for the scenic views, there are lots of ways to clear the view without adversely impacting the overall vegetation and watershed. Some trees if regularly clipped will grow fuller and stay just as healthy.

Ok, this really happens. Someone buys a piece of land on the lake and wants all the tree's removed. But the state won't allow all the tree's to be cut. So the landowner asks what is the worst that can happen. He is told the fine for cutting all the tree's is X amount of dollars. Landowner says cut the tree's and pays the fine.
That came to me from a fellow contractor the worked on the job.

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

Ok, this really happens. Someone buys a piece of land on the lake and wants all the tree's removed. But the state won't allow all the tree's to be cut. So the landowner asks what is the worst that can happen. He is told the fine for cutting all the tree's is X amount of dollars. Landowner says cut the tree's and pays the fine.
That came to me from a fellow contractor the worked on the job.

And then the state will bring an enforcement action against the landowner that includes a remediation plan; that is, planting new trees to replace the ones that were illegally cut. The landowner doesn't get away with just paying a fine.

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by TMI Guy

And then the state will bring an enforcement action against the landowner that includes a remediation plan; that is, planting new trees to replace the ones that were illegally cut. The landowner doesn't get away with just paying a fine.

Agreed but unfortunately some have so much money they just do not care about the fines or anything that comes after so long as they can have their pretty lawns that leach chemicals into the lake and show off their butt ugly 10,000sqft. plus show piece.
It is sad but things like this happen a lot more then you might realize.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

We could be getting a significant amount of rain from a possible hurricane or tropical storm next week.

Only a few days remaining to install artificial turf!

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Gal

Positively shocking!

Seen from the air, the entire Alton area has many clearcut areas—it's depressing!

There's another stretch halfway up Moultonborough's Red Hill that's relatively narrow, but has been clearcut for about a half-mile. That devastation can only be seen from Route 109 for a few seconds—heading northbound.

[DickR]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

....... some have so much money they ....... show off their butt ugly 10,000sqft. plus show piece.

The ideal lakefront house has a wonderful view of the lake but cannot be seen from the lake.

[jeffatsquam]

Originally Posted by DickR

The ideal lakefront house has a wonderful view of the lake but cannot be seen from the lake.

Sounds like the houses I build on Squam

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by jeffatsquam

Sounds like the houses I build on Squam

I couldn't agree more Jeff.
I'm working with a building contractor on a Squam Lake house and I was amazed at just how much nicer Squam Lake is.
5 million dollar home that fits into the surrounding landscape so well you would never even know it wasn't a camp. Until you view it up close and inside.
It is to bad they did not place the same restrictions on Winni way back when, it would present a much more appealing lakefront.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

This photo was taken today.



Now that the leaves are down, the lack of trees is more noticeable.

[Winnigirl]

That's awful. Thank you for the pictures.

[Just Sold]

I went by on East Side Drive today and there is a small brook that flows from the clear cut area between some cottages right into Alton Bay near a boat house

[upthesaukee]

Great picture, RG, but it only shows half the devastation of that hillside. It is clear cut all the way to the base of the trees you see by the houses on East Side Dr.

I also went by the site and there is indeed new signs of work going on. Looks like there is more logs being brought out now.

[Slickcraft]

Here is a link to a summary of the state laws:
http://extension.unh.edu/resources/f...253_rep274.pdf

There are restrictions on clear cutting within certain distances from roads (150'), streams (50') and great ponds (150'). Outside of that I don't see any restriction to clear cutting in state law. There are restrictions relative to wetlands and large areas of terrain alteration.

Prior to harvest an "intent to cut" must be submitted to the town and signed by the BOS. This however primarly relates to collection of the timber tax and serves as notice to the pending activity. Other than monitoring for compliance with the state laws and collecting the timber tax, unfortunately I am not aware of any authority that a town has. Normally when the state preempts the regulation of certain activities, town's have little or no ability to impose additional regulations.

There is another clear cut area in Alton much larger than that pictured here. On Cherry Valley Road, Rt 11A, north side, last lot in Alton along the Gilford boundary. Look north along the ridge line when near Laura Lane on 11A.

[Lakesrider]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

There's another stretch halfway up Moultonborough's Red Hill that's relatively narrow, but has been clearcut for about a half-mile. That devastation can only be seen from Route 109 for a few seconds—heading northbound.

You sure that is not the old ski/wakeboard hill?

[Belmont Resident]

I've been driving by this area recently and one thing I noticed is the equipment looks to have come from a war zone.
It looks like one skidder is broken down, the other is quite antiquated, while the log truck looks to be just barely road worthy.
My guess would be the landowner is raping every dime they can get out of the land then putting it up for sale with views and the next owner of the land will be responsible for taking care of necessary drainage issues.
Has anyone thought of contacting the state and informing them of the possible problems of sediment transfer into the lake?
Didn't they shut down that project by the Weirs for lots of runoff violations years ago? That land is up on a hill overlooking the lake as well with a road in between.
Maybe someone should drop a dime!!