Two bombs at the finish line of the Boston Marathon

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by Ride & Dive

History repeats and we allow, if not encourage, it.

I'm curious as to how you think we might be encouraging this type of thing. Unless we want to give up our essential liberties and live in a police state, there's always going to be a risk that some a**hole is going to do something crazy. And unless you're pretty high up in state or local law enforcement or employed by a three letter federal agency, you have no idea what kind of intelligence gathering, threat assessment and counter-terrorism operations are going on to keep us safe.

[Bear Islander]

My company does the sound, electric power and timing for the Boston Marathon. I have been on the race committee since 1983. The clocks across the finish line are ours. If you watch the videos on TV you see a scissors lift right next to the blast. That is where our speakers are and where I was standing. Thankfully all my employees are ok. I have a ruptured ear drum but all in all that is no big deal. I saw some terrible things in the minutes after the blast.

[HellRaZoR004]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

My company does the sound, electric power and timing for the Boston Marathon. I have been on the race committee since 1983. The clocks across the finish line are ours. If you watch the videos on TV you see a scissors lift right next to the blast. That is where our speakers are and where I was standing. Thankfully all my employees are ok. I have a ruptured ear drum but all in all that is no big deal. I saw some terrible things in the minutes after the blast.

Wow, I'm glad you and your employees are okay!

[nhboat61]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

My company does the sound, electric power and timing for the Boston Marathon. I have been on the race committee since 1983. The clocks across the finish line are ours. If you watch the videos on TV you see a scissors lift right next to the blast. That is where our speakers are and where I was standing. Thankfully all my employees are ok. I have a ruptured ear drum but all in all that is no big deal. I saw some terrible things in the minutes after the blast.

I'm glad to hear you are ok.

My step-son usually volunteers at the race via his fraternity. This year he choose to see the Sox game and just entered the T just before the explosions hit.

He lost his cell and we had a few tense hours trying to locate him. The campus police finally tracked him down and he called us.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

My company does the sound, electric power and timing for the Boston Marathon. I have been on the race committee since 1983. The clocks across the finish line are ours. If you watch the videos on TV you see a scissors lift right next to the blast. That is where our speakers are and where I was standing. Thankfully all my employees are ok. I have a ruptured ear drum but all in all that is no big deal. I saw some terrible things in the minutes after the blast.

Bear Islander;

Glad you and your employees are O.K. Hope your ears heal quickly and your eyes and mind forget the horrible scenes you witnessed.

Such a senseless tragedy...

Dan

[tis]

Now that's too close, BI! Glad you are ok!

[SteveA]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

My company does the sound, electric power and timing for the Boston Marathon. I have been on the race committee since 1983. The clocks across the finish line are ours. If you watch the videos on TV you see a scissors lift right next to the blast. That is where our speakers are and where I was standing. Thankfully all my employees are ok. I have a ruptured ear drum but all in all that is no big deal. I saw some terrible things in the minutes after the blast.

Glad you and all of your employees are OK. It must have been horrible scene to see.

[Just Sold]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

My company does the sound, electric power and timing for the Boston Marathon. I have been on the race committee since 1983. The clocks across the finish line are ours. If you watch the videos on TV you see a scissors lift right next to the blast. That is where our speakers are and where I was standing. Thankfully all my employees are ok. I have a ruptured ear drum but all in all that is no big deal. I saw some terrible things in the minutes after the blast.

BI - I am glad that you are OK as well as your employees. I hope that your ruptured ear drum heals quickly.

My prayers go out for the 3 that lost their lives and to the many injured and their families.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by TMI Guy

I'm curious as to how you think we might be encouraging this type of thing. Unless we want to give up our essential liberties and live in a police state, there's always going to be a risk that some a**hole is going to do something crazy. And unless you're pretty high up in state or local law enforcement or employed by a three letter federal agency, you have no idea what kind of intelligence gathering, threat assessment and counter-terrorism operations are going on to keep us safe.

Well when those three lettered agencies, department of homeland security and even the so called president of the USA all out refuse to call terrorism by name, and refuse to recognize where it's source is that is a fundamental problem don't you think? Doesn't take a police state to do common sense surveillance and yes profiling of those who commonly would carry out such acts.

What happened yesterday regardless of who perpetrated it was terrorism, I find it fascinating that the president's comments later on that day omitted the obvious.

While I have no desire to may political hay out of such a despicable act - the fact it happened doesn't surprise or shock me in the least. Why? Because until the political correctness gets out of the way of identifying what causes this behavior to occur history is destined to repeat itself.

My heartfelt condolences to the families of those that lost loved ones, and to those that were injured my prayers for their families who will be forever changed as a result of this.

Finally BI, thankfully you were not hurt bad.

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Well when those three lettered agencies, department of homeland security and even the so called president of the USA all out refuse to call terrorism by name, and refuse to recognize where it's source is that is a fundamental problem don't you think? Doesn't take a police state to do common sense surveillance and yes profiling of those who commonly would carry out such acts.

You're engaging in cognitive dissonance. There are many sources of terrorism, from right wing extremists and left wing radicals right here in our own country, to the more familiar jihadists that many people seem to be singularly focused on.

Originally Posted by MAXUM

What happened yesterday regardless of who perpetrated it was terrorism, I find it fascinating that the president's comments later on that day omitted the obvious.

Perhaps he "omitted the obvious" because... it's obvious.

Originally Posted by MAXUM

While I have no desire to may political hay out of such a despicable act - the fact it happened doesn't surprise or shock me in the least. Why? Because until the political correctness gets out of the way of identifying what causes this behavior to occur history is destined to repeat itself.

And yet, here you are making political hay out of this despicable act.

Originally Posted by MAXUM

My heartfelt condolences to the families of those that lost loved ones, and to those that were injured my prayers for their families who will be forever changed as a result of this.

Finally BI, thankfully you were not hurt bad.

Agreed.

[JMR]

BI

Glad to hear that you were not injured worse. It must have been a hell of a day.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by TMI Guy

You're engaging in cognitive dissonance. There are many sources of terrorism, from right wing extremists and left wing radicals right here in our own country, to the more familiar jihadists that many people seem to be singularly focused on.



Perhaps he "omitted the obvious" because... it's obvious.



And yet, here you are making political hay out of this despicable act.



Agreed.

I am not engaging in cognitive dissonance, this is so crystal clear no need to introduce a bunch of psycho babble terms to muddy the waters. I did not identify any particular potential responsible party for this for a reason, cause it could be any one of the afore mentioned. However just for argument's sake let's say that based on what happened and how it happened it's probably likely that two of the three could be considered less likely. Right and left wing loons may have their issues, but they typically do not target innocent people in an attempt to injure or kill on a mass scale.

I do believe that the President's comments were very carefully worded as to not offend anyone (as usual) and his continued refusal to call it what it is to me is telling. Being able to vocalize the cause is step one. Apparently we aren't there yet, and in today's world that's a scary thought.

I am not making political hay out of this, just stating observations. I have not made any disparaging comments in regards to any politician with the exception of the president's comments which is hardly political and my comment was simply an observation.

[KonaChick]

To put a human face (or forum name) on this, I'm just extremely grateful that my husband is safe and OK. That's all......

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

I do believe that the President's comments were very carefully worded as to not offend anyone (as usual) and his continued refusal to call it what it is to me is telling. Being able to vocalize the cause is step one. Apparently we aren't there yet, and in today's world that's a scary thought.

What would you have wanted him to say? It's obvious that this was an act of terror, regardless of who is responsible. That should go without saying. Who would you have wanted the president to offend in making his comments? Other than a blanket condemnation of whoever is responsible (which was done), there's really no more that can responsibly be said at this time, because right now we have no idea who did this.

As far as "vocalizing the cause," what cause are you talking about? We have no idea right now what motivated the coward(s) responsible.

[codeman671]

This is getting a bit political...Lets lock this thread before it deteriorates further...

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by TMI Guy

What would you have wanted him to say? It's obvious that this was an act of terror, regardless of who is responsible. That should go without saying. Who would you have wanted the president to offend in making his comments? Other than a blanket condemnation of whoever is responsible (which was done), there's really no more that can responsibly be said at this time, because right now we have no idea who did this.

As far as "vocalizing the cause," what cause are you talking about? We have no idea right now what motivated the coward(s) responsible.

So if it was so obvious why not just call it like it is, or do you play the PC card till it becomes apparent that polling data shows that wasn't a popular thing to omit. What would I have wanted him to say, well what would Harry S Truman say if he were in the white house?

Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
Harry S. Truman

Vocalizing the cause = simply put "terrorism".

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
Harry S. Truman

Yes!! But first, you have to know who "them" is. And you better be 100% sure.

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Vocalizing the cause = simply put "terrorism".

Terrorism is the result, the cause has yet to be determined.

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Right and left wing loons may have their issues, but they typically do not target innocent people in an attempt to injure or kill on a mass scale.

See: McVeigh, Timothy and Rudolph, Eric.

[eillac@dow]

Thought I would share a video from tonight's Bruins game. It is simply amazing. Makes me proud to be a Bostonian and more importantly....an American.

http://video.bruins.nhl.com/videocen...ed-share-video

Hope I attached the link correctly!

[Bear Island South]

1 Dead, 1 Captured
Hopefully this is the end of a horrific week for Boston.
Thanks to all the LEO's for keeping us safe.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Bear Island South

1 Dead, 1 Captured
Hopefully this is the end of a horrific week for Boston.
Thanks to all the LEO's for keeping us safe.

• Anyone listen to the local police/FBI/EMT takedown of the 2nd suspect on an on-line scanner?

(The only scanner I'm aware of that has commercials!)


• One interesting part near the end was the result of an "open mike".



• Miranda has been given to the suspect perp.

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

Originally Posted by ApS

• Anyone listen to the local police/FBI/EMT takedown of the 2nd suspect on an on-line scanner?

(The only scanner I'm aware of that has commercials!)


• One interesting part near the end was the result of an "open mike".



• Miranda has been given to the suspect perp.

I was listening to Mass State Police Special Ops all day on my radio. It was great hearing everything unfold as it happened. I was amazed at how many false reports were broadcast on the national news outlets. I'm proud of the way the law enforcement, EMS and my brother boston firefighters handled themselves.

Open mics are a common occurrence and not a surprise with hundreds of people on portable radios.
The suspect was NOT given his Miranda rights. He will, instead, be held under the Public Safety Exemption.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by PaugusBayFireFighter

The suspect was NOT given his Miranda rights. He will, instead, be held under the Public Safety Exemption.

'Hadn't heard of a "Public Safety Exemption", although the withholding of Miranda is a common practice—at first.

Many news sources have "walked-back" their stories—NBC included...

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

Originally Posted by ApS

'Hadn't heard of a "Public Safety Exemption", although the withholding of Miranda is a common practice—at first.

Many news sources have "walked-back" their stories—NBC included...

So true, many news outlets retracted their stories when the facts actually came out.
The special interrogation team for high valued targets will have this turd for a good 48 hours without Miranda. Hopefully he is "encouraged" if he is "unable" to remember things.

[NoBozo]

Everyone is Happy with the results in Boston. Me to.

Is anyone concerned with the Massive Power brought to bear by the FEDS to capture ONE 19 year old... AND Shut Down the economy of one of the largest cities in America..??? I'M Very Concerned. NB

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

Everyone is Happy with the results in Boston. Me to.

Is anyone concerned with the Massive Power brought to bear by the FEDS to capture ONE 19 year old... AND Shut Down the economy of one of the largest cities in America..??? I'M Very Concerned. NB

I am not concerned at all and it was an appropriate reaction to the situation. Think of all of the damage more bombings in the city could have caused. Fenway Park, Sumner Tunnel, The Garden? Think of the uncertainty on the part of the citizens of Boston if they knew this subject was still on the loose and capable of more terrorism. Think of the additional costs of security to government and private industry everywhere if this subject had remained on the loose. Think of the "closure" and steps toward emotional healing the killing of one brother and capture of the other brought to the families of those killed and injured.

Look at the mesage this appropriate and swift justice sends to any potential future terrorists. Don't try this or any similar act of terrorism, we will hunt you down and bring you to justice!

The only negative here is that the second subject was not killed during the capture. Now we (taxpayers) can hire a lawyer for him, pay for a shrink, and house him for the next 60 or so years at a cost in the millionsof dollars.

No, I'm not concerned at all! Great job by all of those involved!

[Winnisquamguy]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

I am not concerned at all and it was an appropriate reaction to the situation. Think of all of the damage more bombings in the city could have caused. Fenway Park, Sumner Tunnel, The Garden? Think of the uncertainty on the part of the citizens of Boston if they knew this subject was still on the loose and capable of more terrorism. Think of the additional costs of security to government and private industry everywhere if this subject had remained on the loose. Think of the "closure" and steps toward emotional healing the killing of one brother and capture of the other brought to the families of those killed and injured.

Look at the mesage this appropriate and swift justice sends to any potential future terrorists. Don't try this or any similar act of terrorism, we will hunt you down and bring you to justice!



No, I'm not concerned at all! Great job by all of those involved!

The only negative here is that the second subject was not killed during the capture. Now we (taxpayers) can hire a lawyer for him, pay for a shrink, and house him for the next 60 or so years at a cost in the millions of dollars.

Tim McViegh (Oklahoma City bomber)only lasted about 5 years before he was put down. The Feds don't mess around.

[HomeWood]

I predict that he will plea deal for giving information and be given life. 60 years or so of him thinking about how he ran over his brothers body should give him sweet dreams.

As far as the public safety exemption of Miranda, it does exist. I am an LEO and I am allowed to ask a suspect who is under arrest questions like "where's the gun or where are there more IED's" (such as this case) prior to Miranda warnings. The PS exemption is really self explanatory, but some people have watched too many tv cop shows and apply what they see there to reality. It's very frustrating to us in law enforcement.

[Sandy Island fan]

"One 19 year old"?!?!?!!
Who, along with his older brother, killed three people and injured over a hundred? (and that's just the physical injuries - doesn't count the emotional scars to so many more). Who, along with his brother, assassinated an MIT officer who wasn't a threat to them? Who, along with his brother, were tossing IED's along a populated street? Whose brother had tried to detonate a suicide vest in an attempt to kill who knows how many more? Who was in a populated neighborhood, with - in all likelihood - additional explosives?
No, I am not at all concerned with the number of officers that worked together to get that "one 19 year old".

[HomeWood]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

Everyone is Happy with the results in Boston. Me to.

Is anyone concerned with the Massive Power brought to bear by the FEDS to capture ONE 19 year old... AND Shut Down the economy of one of the largest cities in America..??? I'M Very Concerned. NB

I'm concerned that that concerns you.

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by HomeWood

I'm concerned that that concerns you.

HomeWood, as a LEO, maybe you can answer some questions that I have.

When the tactical teams were going door-to-door in Watertown, did they need consent from the homeowners/occupants in order to enter the homes and conduct a search? If not, what exception to the 4th amendment applies in a situation such as this?

Was the shelter in place message from the governor (or whoever issued it) an order, or a request? If it was an order, under what authority (short of imposing martial law) can a government official order the citizens of a large city and four surrounding communities to stay inside? If citizens of Boston, Cambridge, Watertown, etc. had been found walking on the sidewalk yesterday, would they have been subject to arrest or detention?

These are not rhetorical questions. Without their ability to use 20/20 hindsight, I'm not surprised by the level of force that was brought to bear yesterday by the police and federal agencies. The suspects had already demonstrated the ability and willingness to kill and maim large numbers of innocent people, and nobody at the time knew if the remaining suspect (and possibly accomplices) had the capability to do even more. But, I don't think it's ever wrong to ask questions about how far our government can legally go in its efforts to protect those who have given their consent to be governed. The ends do not always justify the means.

[HomeWood]

Originally Posted by TMI Guy

HomeWood, as a LEO, maybe you can answer some questions that I have.

1) When the tactical teams were going door-to-door in Watertown, did they need consent from the homeowners/occupants in order to enter the homes and conduct a search? If not, what exception to the 4th amendment applies in a situation such as this?

2) Was the shelter in place message from the governor (or whoever issued it) an order, or a request? If it was an order, under what authority (short of imposing martial law) can a government official order the citizens of a large city and four surrounding communities to stay inside? If citizens of Boston, Cambridge, Watertown, etc. had been found walking on the sidewalk yesterday, would they have been subject to arrest or detention?

These are not rhetorical questions. Without their ability to use 20/20 hindsight, I'm not surprised by the level of force that was brought to bear yesterday by the police and federal agencies. The suspects had already demonstrated the ability and willingness to kill and maim large numbers of innocent people, and nobody at the time knew if the remaining suspect (and possibly accomplices) had the capability to do even more. But, I don't think it's ever wrong to ask questions about how far our government can legally go in its efforts to protect those who have given their consent to be governed. The ends do not always justify the means.

1) They would need consent to search door to door in order to just check. I don't know of any law that allows a warrantless search without consent in this kind of scenario. No consent would be needed if a) an arrest warrant was active for suspect #2, and b) if there is probable cause to believe he is hiding or barracaded in one of those residences. Also, no consent is needed if in direct pursuit of a suspect who is running and they run into a house. That would be unbroken pursuit, not 30 mins later after the officer loses sight. After that a search warrant would be needed to search a desired private residence or building. Most residents probably didn't have much of a problem letting the teams of officers search (IMO), but gaining consent after strongly insisting isn't a violation of the 4th amendment.

I don't know what might change if something is considered a military operation or something like that. That's out of my league.

2) Sounded like more of a request than an order because there were many citizens out and about that I saw on TV and there was no word of them being arrested. If it was an enforceable order, I'm sure it would have been made very very clear at the press briefings. Obviously most people took the request seriously and abided by it, which was very helpful to the efforts of all the LE agencies working.

The efforts made yesterday by all LE agencies involved were normal and everyday police practices to find a wanted person, but just on a much larger scale! Nobody bats an eye when a single neighborhood block is shut down to search for somebody, we do it all the time. Therefore, it looked unfamiliar and ok, concerning for some. This "massive power" has always existed. You saw numerous agencies working together outside of their jurisdictions, because of a thing called mutual aid. The outside agencies like Boston PD and NH State police, etc were cloaked under Watertown's police authority when officially requested to assist them (that's how NC works too. See the Dem Nat'l convention in Charlotte as an example). Feds and Mass Stateys obviously have jurisdition to begin with. This person is/was extremely dangerous and if the precautions taken for him were not done and another person was hurt or worse.....then what?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

Everyone is Happy with the results in Boston. Me to.

Is anyone concerned with the Massive Power brought to bear by the FEDS to capture ONE 19 year old... AND Shut Down the economy of one of the largest cities in America..??? I'M Very Concerned. NB

...and...

Originally Posted by HomeWood

I'm concerned that that concerns you.

1) I'm about in the middle on this, having followed this operation on the on-line scanner.

I'd be quick to want the perp's discovery should the perp be somewhere on my property; however, those asserting their 4th Amendment rights will receive a notation somewhere in police and public records.

On the other hand, it was the Feds who granted the asylums and student visas that precipitated all this.

2) Multi-agency officers set up a perimeter with tank-like vehicles—milled about—and a citizen calls-in the perp's presence outside the perimeter!

______________________________________


BTW I: Both perps walked from the bombing scene. The living perp somehow managed to drive their hijacked SUV ahead and "finished-off" his handcuffed brother while trying to run over police at that subsequent crime scene.

(By then, the police had run out of ammunition).

BTW II: The family has a shoplifting history at the Natick Lord & Taylor's.



BTW III: Anyone see what two movie stars attended the same school as the perp?

[HomeWood]

Originally Posted by ApS

...and...

BTW II: The family has a shoplifting history at the Natick Lord & Taylor's.

I worked in the Loss Prevention office of that store in the late 90's while in college. Small world, eh.

[patman]

Originally Posted by ApS

BTW I: Both perps walked from the bombing scene. The living perp somehow managed to drive their hijacked SUV ahead and "finished-off" his handcuffed brother while trying to run over police at that subsequent crime scene.

(By then, the police had run out of ammunition).

The older brother was the one that was out of ammo from what I read. (Deveau = Chief Edward Deveau)

http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2013...bvM/story.html

After several minutes, the elder brother, Tamerlan, walked toward the officers, firing his gun until he appeared to run out of bullets, Deveau said. Officers tackled him and were trying to get handcuffs on him, when the stolen SUV came roaring at them, the younger brother at the wheel.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/20/us/bos...ils/index.html

"He all of a sudden comes out from under cover and just starts walking down the street, shooting at our police officers, trying to get closer," Deveau said. "Now, my closest officer is five to 10 feet away, and they're exchanging gunfire between them. And he runs out of ammunition -- the bad guy -- and so one of my police officers comes off the side and tackles him in the street.

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

Originally Posted by patman

The older brother was the one that was out of ammo from what I read. (Deveau = Chief Edward Deveau)

http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2013...bvM/story.html



http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/20/us/bos...ils/index.html

During this shootout the MBTA cop is shot and bleeds out, he goes into cardiac arrest on scene. Two cops are doing CPR during this whole thing. Two of the six cops in the shootout are off duty. They had a pressure cooker bomb as well as 3 grenade type bombs thrown at them. Over 200 rounds were fired between the brothers and the Watertown/MBTA cops. They tackled suspect 1 and were nearly killed by the fleeing SUV. He dragged his brother 30 ft. Hopefully the coroner will confirm officer Donahue's bullet was the fatal shot. He deserves the recognition of killing the guy who nearly killed him.
The Watertown cops and fire along with the Mount ER staff saved officer Donahue's life. They deserve nothing but praise.

[patman]

Originally Posted by ApS

On the other hand, it was the Feds who granted the asylums and student visas that precipitated all this.

Asylum was granted back in 2002:

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/04/19...us-citizenship

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was granted asylum on September 27, 2002, receiving his green card on June 10, 2004.

[tis]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

Everyone is Happy with the results in Boston. Me to.

Is anyone concerned with the Massive Power brought to bear by the FEDS to capture ONE 19 year old... AND Shut Down the economy of one of the largest cities in America..??? I'M Very Concerned. NB

I don't know if concerned is the word I would use, but I couldn't believe that it took that many LOs to arrest him.

[MAXUM]

A huge shocker these guys are tied to and involved with radical Islamic terrorist organisations as if that was ever really in doubt from the moment this happened, but I'll digress from the "obvious" and move on.

This is a really tough call in measuring the response of law enforcement versus the rights of the people. The feds, local and state LEO's are all sworn to protect the public and there is no doubt the public needed protection from these two guys. At the same time the people have rights to. I think any prudent thinking individual would deduce that the situation warranted the response. Nobody knew what these two were capable of, what if any assistance they may have had, things were developing quickly and these guys were on the run so a very dynamic situation to say the least. However make no mistake about it, clearly they had no regard for human life and in a densely populated urban environment there isn't a whole lot of options other than take these guys down asap with deadly force or more innocent people could pay the ultimate price. If they hadn't come in with overwhelming force and additional people were killed I think there would have been hell to pay, at the same time I think some are giving them hell for over doing it and that's not fair. Well the way I look at it, in a situation like this rather see to much than not enough. One final thought, there is a BIG difference between the man hunt for these guys and potential constitutional rights of the people being violated versus the same thing occurring without any just cause or due process. So kudos the all the LEO's involved in taking these guys down, they did a great job.

The media on the other hand big fat zero in my book, they all failed miserably to accurately report the hard news.

[ITD]

I'm not too concerned about the shutdown that occurred to search for these guys. I'm very concerned about the shutdown in Massachusetts that occurred during the big snowstorm we had a few months ago where the Governor instituted a fine if you were caught driving.

That being said, I think we need to be very careful as rights are potentially infringed in the name of safety. There needs to be a line drawn as to when this type of action is justified and when it is not, right now that line seems very blurry.

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

A huge shocker these guys are tied to and involved with radical Islamic terrorist organisations... The media on the other hand big fat zero in my book, they all failed miserably to accurately report the hard news.

If by "involved with radical Islamic terrorist organisations" you mean something more than surfing the internet, than you're right, the media really has failed miserably, because they haven't reported anything more than that.

What do you know for a fact that the media hasn't reported that rises to the level of "involved with radical Islamic terrorist organisations"?