Act of Stupidity

codeman671 · 06-07-2013, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RailroadJoe

If you apply Newtons Laws of Motion, you would realize that once he lets go of the rope he would slow down and sink.

He is wake surfing, not wake boarding as the video title mentions. That part of the video was normal, being driverless not so much. I am sure someone was either sitting below the dash or off to the side just in case. That boat is only traveling 8-10mph to achieve that wake and ride. Wake surfing is low speed, low impact. Wakeboarding is twice that speed.

NoBozo · 06-07-2013, 07:23 PM

I liked the Video Following the wakeboarding video..The one with the kid on the bicycle slamming into the back of the car he was being "Towed" behind. Classic. You just can't make this stuff up. People.....As a society ...WE are OVER.

NB

This'nThat · 06-07-2013, 09:28 PM

Of course this is a complete fake. The Laws of Physics won't allow this to happen.

First, Newton's Laws: For every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction. The action, in this case, is the boat going forward. The reaction is -- the water that is pushed backwards. The boat's propeller is pushing a lot of water backwards. Which will prevent the "surfer" from moving forward without the assistance of the rope tow. He's trying to make us believe the small wake behind the boat is sufficient to overcome this propeller wash. It isn't -- big time.

Second, gravity isn't assisting the "surfer" in this video. During ocean wave surfing, the surfer actually uses gravity to propel forward. Gravity is made available by the constantly increasing size of the wave. As an ocean wave approaches shore, it becomes higher as a result of the wave's energy traveling over more and more shallow conditions. The wave's energy causes the wave size to increase and turn nearly vertical. The surfer rides this front edge of the wave, and essentially continues to "fall" as the wave pushes him to shore. Without this effect, a wave is essentially non-surfable (if that's a word). A boat wake isn't a surfable wave.

Basically, this video is trying to make us believe that the boat's forward momentum is causing a wave condition that is also moving forward at the boat's speed, and has sufficient energy to carry the surfer with it. Folks -- this is physically impossible.

Par Four · 06-07-2013, 10:08 PM

I have no traiing Physics, but I'm not sure I see what you're saying.

If the video is fake, it's pretty well done.

How is this different than the surfers on the cruise ships?

ApS · 06-08-2013, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Par Four

I have no training in Physics, but I'm not sure I see what you're saying.

If the video is fake, it's pretty well done.

How is this different than the surfers on the cruise ships?

Add a full crew and a skipper at the helm, I watched this identical activity two days ago in Winter Harbor.

It's "wake-surfing", and there's no scientific reason it can't be done solo, as the camera has clearly captured.

More on Winnipesaukee "wake-surfing" from 3 years ago:
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...4&postcount=10

tis · 06-08-2013, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApS

Add a full crew and a skipper at the helm, I watched this identical activity two days ago in Winter Harbor.

It's "wake-surfing", and there's no scientific reason it can't be done solo, as the camera has clearly captured.

I saw that too, APS. And I thought at the time, I hope he doesn't fall down. It seems like it would be pretty easy for him to be sucked into the propeller. Am I wrong?

Little Bear · 06-08-2013, 07:57 AM

There are special wake surfing boats designed for this. They have ballast tanks in the stern, which are filled up to cause the stern to sink and which create the wake. A friend of mine had one. Check out this video:

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=nfjn3...%3Dnfjn3o75FCQ

NHWakesurfer · 06-08-2013, 08:54 AM

The wakesurfing part of the video is something we do all the time. You can only do it on an inboard no I/O or outboards. You fill up the internal ballast tanks and some additional fat sacks for weight on one side, go about 9.5 mph in a straight or slight arc that you are surfing on and you will throw a nice wave. You take the wakesurf board about 10 feet behind the side you surf on with a short knotted handled rope and once the boat gets you up and you find the sweet spot on the wave you throw the rope back in and you can go as long as you want. My kids record for us last summer was 7 and half minutes without the rope. Its alot of fun and when you fall you just sink in the water no pain.

The no driver part is either fake or one of the worst ideas i've seen.

google wakesurfing you will see alot of examples.

MJM · 06-08-2013, 08:55 AM

Sorry, THIS-N-THAT, but the action is possible, done regularly, and I've seen it. Just play around on youtube, you'll find lots of examples.

The speed is critical....basically 'plowing' so as to constantly create the rolling wave on which the board rides.

I would hope the part about not having anyone in the boat is fake!

RailroadJoe · 06-08-2013, 06:04 AM

On a cruise ship, the surfer isn't moving, the water is. With the surfer standing still, the force of the water being driven at him will create the wave's force strong enough for him to stand.

jmen24 · 06-08-2013, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by This'nThat

Of course this is a complete fake. The Laws of Physics won't allow this to happen.

First, Newton's Laws: For every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction. The action, in this case, is the boat going forward. The reaction is -- the water that is pushed backwards. The boat's propeller is pushing a lot of water backwards. Which will prevent the "surfer" from moving forward without the assistance of the rope tow. He's trying to make us believe the small wake behind the boat is sufficient to overcome this propeller wash. It isn't -- big time.

Second, gravity isn't assisting the "surfer" in this video. During ocean wave surfing, the surfer actually uses gravity to propel forward. Gravity is made available by the constantly increasing size of the wave. As an ocean wave approaches shore, it becomes higher as a result of the wave's energy traveling over more and more shallow conditions. The wave's energy causes the wave size to increase and turn nearly vertical. The surfer rides this front edge of the wave, and essentially continues to "fall" as the wave pushes him to shore. Without this effect, a wave is essentially non-surfable (if that's a word). A boat wake isn't a surfable wave.

Basically, this video is trying to make us believe that the boat's forward momentum is causing a wave condition that is also moving forward at the boat's speed, and has sufficient energy to carry the surfer with it. Folks -- this is physically impossible.

First off, you apparently have never surfed a rapid in a canoe or kayak before. The growing size of the wave is not what moves the surfer. It is a balance between gravity, friction and the velocity of the water. The only reason the surfer moves on an ocean wave is because the wave is changing its position in relation to the shore. If the wave stays in the same position relative to the boat, then there is no reason this is not possible.

Second, you are focusing on the wrong action. it is not that the boat is moving forward, it is that the water is being propelled backwards. That force is what creates the wave.

Based on your theory, this would be impossible!
http://youtu.be/WCDuIJMrLbo

NH_boater · 06-08-2013, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by This'nThat

Of course this is a complete fake. The Laws of Physics won't allow this to happen.

First, Newton's Laws: For every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction. The action, in this case, is the boat going forward. The reaction is -- the water that is pushed backwards. The boat's propeller is pushing a lot of water backwards. Which will prevent the "surfer" from moving forward without the assistance of the rope tow. He's trying to make us believe the small wake behind the boat is sufficient to overcome this propeller wash. It isn't -- big time.

Second, gravity isn't assisting the "surfer" in this video. During ocean wave surfing, the surfer actually uses gravity to propel forward. Gravity is made available by the constantly increasing size of the wave. As an ocean wave approaches shore, it becomes higher as a result of the wave's energy traveling over more and more shallow conditions. The wave's energy causes the wave size to increase and turn nearly vertical. The surfer rides this front edge of the wave, and essentially continues to "fall" as the wave pushes him to shore. Without this effect, a wave is essentially non-surfable (if that's a word). A boat wake isn't a surfable wave.

Basically, this video is trying to make us believe that the boat's forward momentum is causing a wave condition that is also moving forward at the boat's speed, and has sufficient energy to carry the surfer with it. Folks -- this is physically impossible.

I think the physics make this very possible. I think this is real. I think the camera work implies he is the only person on board, which I expect is the only fake part. The wave is just like a surfing wave, moving forward and producing a surf-able shape, propelling the surfer.

codeman671 · 06-08-2013, 01:32 PM

We see wake surfers every day right in front of the house. These arguments about it being physically impossible as viewed are nonsense.

We have owned numerous wakeboard boats as well. In wake surfing depth is important, you actually have to be in 30-40 feet of water I am told as the plowing of the boat and shape of the wake are not as good in shallow depths. The wave action actually extends quite a bit under the surface.

dog paw · 06-08-2013, 03:25 PM

I cant beleive you guys don't see more wakesufing up there. Need to send some of your physics professors down hear and sink 5-6 hundered of those SOB's on our lake, on any given weekend. Seem's to be the new kid thing. One of those hulks roll by your dock with 2 tons of ballast on board you'll think it was the Mt Washington

hear's another on the Mastercraft site...

Someone should foward it to his insurance company

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...ad.php?t=54909

RailroadJoe · 06-08-2013, 04:44 PM

I apoligize to the members in that I did not think it was a true method of surfing. After checking various sources, on the web, I now see that it is possible to wake surf behind a boat without a tow rope. I wish I could talk to my old physics professor, just to see what he could tell me.

tis · 06-08-2013, 05:19 PM

I believe he is wakesurfing. I don't believe he is doing it without someone in the boat.

ITD · 06-08-2013, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RailroadJoe

I apoligize to the members in that I did not think it was a true method of surfing. After checking various sources, on the web, I now see that it is possible to wake surf behind a boat without a tow rope. I wish I could talk to my old physics professor, just to see what he could tell me.

Don't sweat it Joe, I think it would be pretty interesting to see a physics guy describe what is going on. I tubed behind a 52 foot Bertram once, the wake looked like a mountain behind that thing....

Legionnaire70 · 06-08-2013, 06:37 PM

How come the same cloud above the steering wheel in the upper left corner never moved? Hmmmmmm....

Par Four · 06-08-2013, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legionnaire70

How come the same cloud above the steering wheel in the upper left corner never moved? Hmmmmmm....

Looks to me like they all move in unison, starting at the 00:10 mark when he's at idle and it begins to rock as he takes off his jacket, thru the 1:00 mark when he gets back aboard.

What I do notice is the boat is not evenly trimmed out. Seems like its down a bit on the port side, the transom is not level with the horizon. Could be that a hidden human is in the bow area on the port side? Or maybe that particular boat, at that particular speed and prop pitch combo, without the offsetting eight of the driver?

Or, it could be he's got it setup to specifically ride that way using the water ballast fat bags in order to get just the right shape of wake.

Either way I'm struck with how casual the young lad is thru the whole thing, and doesn't really even look at the camera.

codeman671 · 06-08-2013, 09:18 PM

Wakeboard boats do not have trim, they are either straight shaft inboard or vdrive. Some have wake plates that are meant to help shape the wake but do help with bow lift, they are usually in the center as opposed to trim tabs. When wake surfing you intentionally sink one corner of the stern by filling a ballast tank on a specific side to create the curl in the wake needed.

Par Four · 06-08-2013, 09:34 PM

Thanks Codeman. Is this style boat typically a bow rider?

codeman671 · 06-08-2013, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Par Four

Thanks Codeman. Is this style boat typically a bow rider?

Yes. I have never seen a closed bow wakeboard boat. Also it is imperative that you never try to wake surf on an outboard or stern drive boat. The prop on a wakeboard boat is far enough forward and partially blocked by the rudder so that if you do slide down the front of the wake you will not get clipped. A website I read indicated that at 9-10mph there is 800lbs of force being generated by the wake that will prevent one from getting too far under the boat.

Dave R · 06-09-2013, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeman671

Yes. I have never seen a closed bow wakeboard boat. Also it is imperative that you never try to wake surf on an outboard or stern drive boat.

I guess I'll have my surfing buddy leave his board at home. Darn, that looks like fun, but the thought of mixing it up with a Bravo 3 is rather daunting...

NHWakesurfer · 06-09-2013, 09:44 AM

Codeman actually the newer wake boats have what they call surftabs on both sides along with the tab in the middle. this allows you to really drop one side or the other depending if you surf regular foot or goofy foot (right forward)

Dave R. you are right to think that not wanting to tangle with the Bravo's. Never ever on an I/O or outboard you would get messed up if you came to close and fell. The inboards or V-drives are the only thing that works. The prop is out of the way.

The wakes are big but still nothing like having a Carver come by the house at slow speed or a winni thunderstorm pounding us.

enjoy the summer

Buy a Mastercraft they are the best

tis · 06-09-2013, 10:24 AM

Thanks NHWakesurfer, for clearing that up. As mentioned above, I was worried about the propellers. Now, the second issue. Do you believe that boat really had no driver while he was wakesurfing??

Par Four · 06-09-2013, 10:37 AM

Yes, thanks for the info. This has been educational.

Does anyone happen to recognize what boat make/model this is? I'd like to look at some other views of it.

ApS · 01-09-2014, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeman671

Wakeboard boats do not have trim, they are either straight shaft inboard or vdrive. Some have wake plates that are meant to help shape the wake but do help with bow lift, they are usually in the center as opposed to trim tabs. When wake surfing you intentionally sink one corner of the stern by filling a ballast tank on a specific side to create the curl in the wake needed.

This is an example of a "manual" wake plate:

06-07-2013, 09:28 PM	#3
This'nThat Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 534 Thanks: 19 Thanked 134 Times in 61 Posts	Laws of Physics Of course this is a complete fake. The Laws of Physics won't allow this to happen. First, Newton's Laws: For every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction. The action, in this case, is the boat going forward. The reaction is -- the water that is pushed backwards. The boat's propeller is pushing a lot of water backwards. Which will prevent the "surfer" from moving forward without the assistance of the rope tow. He's trying to make us believe the small wake behind the boat is sufficient to overcome this propeller wash. It isn't -- big time. Second, gravity isn't assisting the "surfer" in this video. During ocean wave surfing, the surfer actually uses gravity to propel forward. Gravity is made available by the constantly increasing size of the wave. As an ocean wave approaches shore, it becomes higher as a result of the wave's energy traveling over more and more shallow conditions. The wave's energy causes the wave size to increase and turn nearly vertical. The surfer rides this front edge of the wave, and essentially continues to "fall" as the wave pushes him to shore. Without this effect, a wave is essentially non-surfable (if that's a word). A boat wake isn't a surfable wave. Basically, this video is trying to make us believe that the boat's forward momentum is causing a wave condition that is also moving forward at the boat's speed, and has sufficient energy to carry the surfer with it. Folks -- this is physically impossible.

06-08-2013, 08:55 AM	#9
MJM Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 262 Thanks: 0 Thanked 23 Times in 11 Posts	Does Happen Sorry, THIS-N-THAT, but the action is possible, done regularly, and I've seen it. Just play around on youtube, you'll find lots of examples. The speed is critical....basically 'plowing' so as to constantly create the rolling wave on which the board rides. I would hope the part about not having anyone in the boat is fake!

06-07-2013, 07:23 PM	#2
NoBozo Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Portsmouth. RI Posts: 2,231 Thanks: 400 Thanked 460 Times in 308 Posts	I liked the Video Following the wakeboarding video..The one with the kid on the bicycle slamming into the back of the car he was being "Towed" behind. Classic. You just can't make this stuff up. People.....As a society ...WE are OVER. NB

06-07-2013, 10:08 PM	#4
Par Four Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Central MA Posts: 77 Thanks: 23 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	I have no traiing Physics, but I'm not sure I see what you're saying. If the video is fake, it's pretty well done. How is this different than the surfers on the cruise ships?

06-08-2013, 07:57 AM	#7
Little Bear Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 580 Thanks: 125 Thanked 247 Times in 133 Posts	There are special wake surfing boats designed for this. They have ballast tanks in the stern, which are filled up to cause the stern to sink and which create the wake. A friend of mine had one. Check out this video: http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=nfjn3...%3Dnfjn3o75FCQ

06-08-2013, 08:54 AM	#8
NHWakesurfer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 64 Thanks: 12 Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts	The wakesurfing part of the video is something we do all the time. You can only do it on an inboard no I/O or outboards. You fill up the internal ballast tanks and some additional fat sacks for weight on one side, go about 9.5 mph in a straight or slight arc that you are surfing on and you will throw a nice wave. You take the wakesurf board about 10 feet behind the side you surf on with a short knotted handled rope and once the boat gets you up and you find the sweet spot on the wave you throw the rope back in and you can go as long as you want. My kids record for us last summer was 7 and half minutes without the rope. Its alot of fun and when you fall you just sink in the water no pain. The no driver part is either fake or one of the worst ideas i've seen. google wakesurfing you will see alot of examples.

The Following User Says Thank You to NHWakesurfer For This Useful Post:
Chaselady (06-08-2013)

06-08-2013, 06:04 AM	#10
RailroadJoe Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 620 Thanks: 259 Thanked 158 Times in 100 Posts	On a cruise ship, the surfer isn't moving, the water is. With the surfer standing still, the force of the water being driven at him will create the wave's force strong enough for him to stand.

06-08-2013, 01:32 PM	#13
codeman671 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,539 Thanks: 222 Thanked 828 Times in 499 Posts	We see wake surfers every day right in front of the house. These arguments about it being physically impossible as viewed are nonsense. We have owned numerous wakeboard boats as well. In wake surfing depth is important, you actually have to be in 30-40 feet of water I am told as the plowing of the boat and shape of the wake are not as good in shallow depths. The wave action actually extends quite a bit under the surface.

06-08-2013, 03:25 PM	#14
dog paw Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 34 Thanks: 4 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	I cant beleive you guys don't see more wakesufing up there. Need to send some of your physics professors down hear and sink 5-6 hundered of those SOB's on our lake, on any given weekend. Seem's to be the new kid thing. One of those hulks roll by your dock with 2 tons of ballast on board you'll think it was the Mt Washington hear's another on the Mastercraft site... Someone should foward it to his insurance company http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...ad.php?t=54909

06-08-2013, 04:44 PM	#15
RailroadJoe Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 620 Thanks: 259 Thanked 158 Times in 100 Posts	I apoligize to the members in that I did not think it was a true method of surfing. After checking various sources, on the web, I now see that it is possible to wake surf behind a boat without a tow rope. I wish I could talk to my old physics professor, just to see what he could tell me.

06-08-2013, 05:19 PM	#16
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,814 Thanks: 759 Thanked 1,469 Times in 1,025 Posts	I believe he is wakesurfing. I don't believe he is doing it without someone in the boat.

06-08-2013, 06:37 PM	#18
Legionnaire70 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 119 Thanks: 25 Thanked 31 Times in 21 Posts	How come the same cloud above the steering wheel in the upper left corner never moved? Hmmmmmm....

06-08-2013, 09:18 PM	#20
codeman671 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,539 Thanks: 222 Thanked 828 Times in 499 Posts	Wakeboard boats do not have trim, they are either straight shaft inboard or vdrive. Some have wake plates that are meant to help shape the wake but do help with bow lift, they are usually in the center as opposed to trim tabs. When wake surfing you intentionally sink one corner of the stern by filling a ballast tank on a specific side to create the curl in the wake needed.

06-08-2013, 09:34 PM	#21
Par Four Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Central MA Posts: 77 Thanks: 23 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Thanks Codeman. Is this style boat typically a bow rider?

06-09-2013, 09:44 AM	#24
NHWakesurfer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 64 Thanks: 12 Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts	Codeman actually the newer wake boats have what they call surftabs on both sides along with the tab in the middle. this allows you to really drop one side or the other depending if you surf regular foot or goofy foot (right forward) Dave R. you are right to think that not wanting to tangle with the Bravo's. Never ever on an I/O or outboard you would get messed up if you came to close and fell. The inboards or V-drives are the only thing that works. The prop is out of the way. The wakes are big but still nothing like having a Carver come by the house at slow speed or a winni thunderstorm pounding us. enjoy the summer Buy a Mastercraft they are the best

06-09-2013, 10:24 AM	#25
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,814 Thanks: 759 Thanked 1,469 Times in 1,025 Posts	Thanks NHWakesurfer, for clearing that up. As mentioned above, I was worried about the propellers. Now, the second issue. Do you believe that boat really had no driver while he was wakesurfing??

06-09-2013, 10:37 AM	#26
Par Four Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Central MA Posts: 77 Thanks: 23 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Yes, thanks for the info. This has been educational. Does anyone happen to recognize what boat make/model this is? I'd like to look at some other views of it.