Marine Patrol shake's their head!

tis · 06-18-2013, 04:44 PM

I yelled at someone last weekend and his reply was: "I'm going slow." I told him that didn't matter, it was the wake that matters.

Dave R · 06-18-2013, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

I yelled at someone last weekend and his reply was: "I'm going slow." I told him that didn't matter, it was the wake that matters.

It's not though, my boat makes a very obvious wake when I'm operating legally at headway speed, which is all you are required to do in a no wake zone in NH.

tis · 06-18-2013, 06:22 PM

We have had this discussion before and it depends on who the MP officer is if you get stopped or not. We had one officer who wouldn't even allow the tiniest ripple. Even I was shocked at who he stopped. Headway speed is not no wake, but I know you will probably argue it as it was argued before. No wake is no wake. Headway speed is headway speed. Years ago we used to have headway speed signs on the lake.

Dave R · 06-18-2013, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

We have had this discussion before and it depends on who the MP officer is if you get stopped or not. We had one officer who wouldn't even allow the tiniest ripple. Even I was shocked at who he stopped. Headway speed is not no wake, but I know you will probably argue it as it was argued before. No wake is no wake. Headway speed is headway speed. Years ago we used to have headway speed signs on the lake.

Hopefully the Marine Patrol will become more aware of the state's boating laws in the future.

270-D:1 Definitions.

VI. "Headway speed'' means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.

VIII. "No wake area'' means an area where a boat is to be operated only at headway speed.

tis · 06-18-2013, 07:02 PM

Most boats can go slower than 6MPH and the whole idea of a no wake area is you are not supposed to make a wake. There are reasons for not allowing wakes.

secondcurve · 06-18-2013, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

Most boats can go slower than 6MPH and the whole idea of a no wake area is you are not supposed to make a wake. There are reasons for not allowing wakes.

Tis:

That was my assumption, too. However, Dave R has proven that not to be the case based upon the facts he has posted. He has the best depth of knowledge about boats and boating on this site.

Maybe the regulation should be re-written to the following:

VI. "Headway speed'' means THE SLOWER OF 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.

Par Four · 06-18-2013, 08:20 PM

I've seen several posts were folks have apparently cut / pasted state boating regulations from an online source. I'd like to be able to reference them myself or time to time.

Could some post that URL or point me to the site?

Tnx

tis · 06-19-2013, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Tis:

That was my assumption, too. However, Dave R has proven that not to be the case based upon the facts he has posted. He has the best depth of knowledge about boats and boating on this site.

Maybe the regulation should be re-written to the following:

VI. "Headway speed'' means THE SLOWER OF 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.

It probably should be rewritten. I was thinking the same thing before you posted it. The way it is is open to interpretation. I do believe no wake is meant to be no wake. But just as we can't agree on here, possible the officers don't agree. Someone should ask them.

Chaselady · 06-19-2013, 08:05 AM

I understand what Tis means. There are many people who believe that going "slower" is okay in a NWZ. I live in a NWZ, and it is amazing how many people slow down and PLOW through, throwing the biggest wake possible. When they hit the other end, they open up again. These same people never think to look behind their boat and see the wake they are making, or notice our boat being thrown against the dock.
The majority of these folks seem to be seasoned boat operators, many " older" types. And I'm not a spring chicken myself!

jrc · 06-19-2013, 09:35 AM

Most NH laws regarding boating are here:

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/.../270-D-mrg.htm

Most NH rules regarding boating are here:

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rule.../saf-c400.html

You have to follow the rules and the laws

jrc · 06-19-2013, 09:55 AM

All laws are trade-offs especially no wake zones. You have to trade off the rights of a boater to travel and operate his vessel safely, the rights of other boaters not to be endangered and the rights of property owners to not have their property damaged.

Maybe 6 MPH is too fast, but that's the trade off we have. With planning boats the wake goes up pretty quickly with speed until they plane. I know the difference between 6 MPH and 12 MPH on my boat is incredible.

It doesn't help with respect for NWZ, that some of them seem political rather than safety motivated.

BroadHopper · 06-19-2013, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrc

It doesn't help with respect for NWZ, that some of them seem political rather than safety motivated.

Definitely the case in the past few years.

During Bike Week I saw all kinds of infractions. Someone left the launch ramp at Irwin Marine and plane on the wrong side of the marker in front of the bridge. He was very lucky he didn't hit the rocks. Everyone was waving and sounding their horns. He just smile and wave back. I saw the same guy planing through the no wake zone in the Weirs Channel and eventually slow down because of the traffic. I notice he did not have NH registration.

Dave R · 06-19-2013, 11:59 AM

Our state legislature has determined that the wake created by any boat going 6 MPH or less is not a problem. If a boat has to exceed 6 MPH to maintain steerage, it is allowed. I generally run at 5 MPH in no wake zones, but I'm not required to. I can't go slower than 4 MPH and maintain steerage.

I routinely see MP boats going all of the allowed 6 MPH in no wake zones.

Woodsy · 06-19-2013, 09:48 AM

All boats make a wake of some sort... there is always a ripple of some size behind the boat caused by the water being displaced by the hull of the boat.

That being said, No wake / headway speed is meant to be the SLOWEST possible speed that you can maintain steerage (ie: control) of your boat. It does not mean going so slow (dead slow) as to have to shift in and out of gear.... in order to minimize your wake. Most boats can maintain steerage with engine at idle in gear between 3-5 MPH. Some need a little more speed to maintain steerage, some a little less.

For example...

Take the Weirs Channel in the spring.... the Dam is open letting the excess water from the lake drop. There is at least 5-6 MPH current thru there (sometimes more), especially where it narrows by the bridge. To overcome this current a boat would have to travel faster than the current... so you are looking at 8-10 MPH. Your forward speed is only 4-5 MPH. You are def throwing a wake, but in light of the current, you HAVE to in order to maintain steerage/control of your boat.

The key to the law is MAINTAIN STEERAGE!

Woodsy

06-18-2013, 08:20 PM	#7
Par Four Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Central MA Posts: 77 Thanks: 23 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	URL available? I've seen several posts were folks have apparently cut / pasted state boating regulations from an online source. I'd like to be able to reference them myself or time to time. Could some post that URL or point me to the site? Tnx

06-19-2013, 09:48 AM	#14
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,968 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	All boats make a wake of some sort... there is always a ripple of some size behind the boat caused by the water being displaced by the hull of the boat. That being said, No wake / headway speed is meant to be the SLOWEST possible speed that you can maintain steerage (ie: control) of your boat. It does not mean going so slow (dead slow) as to have to shift in and out of gear.... in order to minimize your wake. Most boats can maintain steerage with engine at idle in gear between 3-5 MPH. Some need a little more speed to maintain steerage, some a little less. For example... Take the Weirs Channel in the spring.... the Dam is open letting the excess water from the lake drop. There is at least 5-6 MPH current thru there (sometimes more), especially where it narrows by the bridge. To overcome this current a boat would have to travel faster than the current... so you are looking at 8-10 MPH. Your forward speed is only 4-5 MPH. You are def throwing a wake, but in light of the current, you HAVE to in order to maintain steerage/control of your boat. The key to the law is MAINTAIN STEERAGE! Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

06-18-2013, 04:44 PM	#1
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,817 Thanks: 759 Thanked 1,469 Times in 1,025 Posts	I yelled at someone last weekend and his reply was: "I'm going slow." I told him that didn't matter, it was the wake that matters.

06-18-2013, 06:22 PM	#3
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,817 Thanks: 759 Thanked 1,469 Times in 1,025 Posts	We have had this discussion before and it depends on who the MP officer is if you get stopped or not. We had one officer who wouldn't even allow the tiniest ripple. Even I was shocked at who he stopped. Headway speed is not no wake, but I know you will probably argue it as it was argued before. No wake is no wake. Headway speed is headway speed. Years ago we used to have headway speed signs on the lake.

06-18-2013, 07:02 PM	#5
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,817 Thanks: 759 Thanked 1,469 Times in 1,025 Posts	Most boats can go slower than 6MPH and the whole idea of a no wake area is you are not supposed to make a wake. There are reasons for not allowing wakes.

06-19-2013, 08:05 AM	#9
Chaselady Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Melvin Village Posts: 309 Thanks: 150 Thanked 105 Times in 73 Posts	I understand what Tis means. There are many people who believe that going "slower" is okay in a NWZ. I live in a NWZ, and it is amazing how many people slow down and PLOW through, throwing the biggest wake possible. When they hit the other end, they open up again. These same people never think to look behind their boat and see the wake they are making, or notice our boat being thrown against the dock. The majority of these folks seem to be seasoned boat operators, many " older" types. And I'm not a spring chicken myself!

The Following User Says Thank You to Chaselady For This Useful Post:
tis (06-19-2013)

06-19-2013, 09:35 AM	#10
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	Most NH laws regarding boating are here: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/.../270-D-mrg.htm Most NH rules regarding boating are here: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rule.../saf-c400.html You have to follow the rules and the laws

The Following User Says Thank You to jrc For This Useful Post:
Par Four (06-19-2013)

06-19-2013, 09:55 AM	#11
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	All laws are trade-offs especially no wake zones. You have to trade off the rights of a boater to travel and operate his vessel safely, the rights of other boaters not to be endangered and the rights of property owners to not have their property damaged. Maybe 6 MPH is too fast, but that's the trade off we have. With planning boats the wake goes up pretty quickly with speed until they plane. I know the difference between 6 MPH and 12 MPH on my boat is incredible. It doesn't help with respect for NWZ, that some of them seem political rather than safety motivated.

06-19-2013, 11:59 AM	#13
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,985 Thanks: 246 Thanked 744 Times in 444 Posts	Our state legislature has determined that the wake created by any boat going 6 MPH or less is not a problem. If a boat has to exceed 6 MPH to maintain steerage, it is allowed. I generally run at 5 MPH in no wake zones, but I'm not required to. I can't go slower than 4 MPH and maintain steerage. I routinely see MP boats going all of the allowed 6 MPH in no wake zones.

The Following User Says Thank You to Woodsy For This Useful Post:
ishoot308 (06-19-2013)