Just curious?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni

I agree with limits in coves, narrow areas and at night for safety. In the broads it just doesn't fit, a lot of people I speak to avoid the broads for rough water not speeders.

You'd be shocked at all the unlighted "low-information boaters" out after dark.

...We love the lake and bought here in 2007, it was all about the boating. To have a large area like the broads that you can't go over 45, well, never mind. Sadly, I didn't vote the lake as a top New England destination when that poll was out and I cannot believe I didn't, but for us, it isn't. But those who like the lake without traffic or noise prevailed.

• The Broads doesn't have to be rough—the scofflaws prefer the calm waters of coves. Saturday, the usual weekend white Donzi blasted through Winter Harbor mid-morning at speeds approaching 100-MPH!

(Yeah, I know, "Donzis can't go that fast")

• When my family bought here in 1956, it wasn't about the boating so much as living on "Golden Pond". Now that we on Lake Winnipesaukee have learned that 6% of Loon mortality is due to boats—it was time.

(Not including human mortality rates here).

• Just Friday, a Loon surfaced next to me on the dock, and promptly dove "from the danger"—resurfacing only 20-feet further away.

• Loons can dive for two minutes or even much longer. Loons aren't checking for Donzis when they resurface for air—nor are Donzis checking for Loons...

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by ApS

100-MPH!

(Yeah, I know, "Donzis can't go that fast")

• When my family bought here in 1956, it wasn't about the boating so much as living on "Golden Pond". Now that we on Lake Winnipesaukee have learned that 6% of Loon mortality is due to boats—it was time.

100 MPH?

"Golden Pond" is a few miles NW of Winni. Squam is a beautiful lake.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by ApS

The Broads doesn't have to be rough—the scofflaws prefer the calm waters of coves. Saturday, the usual weekend white Donzi blasted through Winter Harbor mid-morning at speeds approaching 100-MPH!
(Yeah, I know, "Donzis can't go that fast")

100 MPH? I find that real hard to believe.
However, if you see the same boat ("usual weekend white Donzi") every weekend, perhaps you should inform MP to be on the lookout?

[jrc]

If someone was regularly driving a boat dangerously at speeds approaching 100 MPH in Winter Harbor, I'd use my phone to take a movie. Posted on this site or youtube, and sent to the MP, the problem would be solved quick.

BTW what caused 94% of the loon mortality, maybe we should address that?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by jrc

BTW what caused 94% of the loon mortality, maybe we should address that?

In a thread about speed, that would be a "red herring"...

Originally Posted by jrc

If someone was regularly driving a boat dangerously at speeds approaching 100 MPH in Winter Harbor, I'd use my phone to take a movie. Posted on this site or youtube, and sent to the MP, the problem would be solved quickly.

A good idea—and I did have my camera ready.

The background shoreline could then be measured on a chart, and the elapsed-time on the YouTube could be used to calculate the speeds reached on each successive "run". Not that it would persuade others—who likely know this "visitor"—who would otherwise use Barber Pole waters to use as "speed-suitable".

This year, unfortunately, he didn't appear on his usual day of racing-around Winter Harbor; perhaps he'd damaged his lower unit, and had to wait until a replacement "appeared"?



As Webbs pointed out, "...I agree with limits in coves, narrow areas and at night for safety..."

Winter Harbor is not for racing-around in; unfortunately, Winter Harbor—like most coves—is calm when the Broads would be unsuited for "racing-around".
______________________________

BTW, Winter Harbor has its own long-established Loon pair and nesting area.

[jrc]

Once again you seem to miss my simple points:

When it comes to speed, the whole loon subject it is a red herring. Even the loon center attributes less than one loon death a year to boat collisions. How many of those are speed related?

You say there is this usual weekend scofflaw, yet you seem unable to predict his patterns well enough to capture even one incriminating photo. The story strains credibility.

[Woodsy]

Guys....

Its just more APS crap..

He is stirring the pot because he can. Anyone with any knowledge of deep V hulled speed boats know you need chop to go fast... calm water is slow sticky water! Winter harbor is barely 1.5 miles long x 0.5 miles wide.... not nearly enough room for ANY boat (except maybe a top Fuel Hydro) to hit 100 MPH.... (they like calm flat water)


As far as Loons go, another attempt at stirring the pot... Its what he does!

Woodsy

[BroadHopper]

There are plenty of them! Good thing my GPS register top speed traveled. Whenever one of the trolls calls the marine patrol that I pass their residence at 100 mph, I show the marine patrol I wasn't anywhere near breaking the speed limit. This is getting very old...........................

No wonder they want a speed limit. Their perception of speed is a performance boat looking like speed. Not the speed of the boat itself.

Since this whole thing started, I stop water/bare foot skiing in Winter Harbor because of a certain troll................................

[jrc]

Believe me I know about trolls and that particular troll but if he goes un-answered a new reader might take him at his word.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by jrc

Believe me I know about trolls and that particular troll but if he goes un-answered a new reader might take him at his word.

Bingo. Most of the posts and replies that I have made in the SL forum have been to debunk some of the myths they tend to throw out there.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

There are plenty of them! Good thing my GPS register top speed traveled. Whenever one of the trolls calls the marine patrol that I pass their residence at 100 mph, I show the marine patrol I wasn't anywhere near breaking the speed limit. This is getting very old...........................

No wonder they want a speed limit. Their perception of speed is a performance boat looking like speed. Not the speed of the boat itself.

Since this whole thing started, I stop water/bare foot skiing in Winter Harbor because of a certain troll................................

Sorry to hear that you stopped skiing in Winter Harbor because of our resident "TROLL". That's exactly the outcome that he wanted. I may just take my new ski boat over there this weekend. Give the troll something else to cry about!

[ApS]

From winnipesaukee.com's FAQs:

No "trolling" (trying to start arguments and upset people)!

"For example, mass media has used troll to describe "a person who defaces Internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families."

If you go here, you'll find that I participate in less than half of the speed limit debates.

I might upset people if I posted, "The NHMP has a secret agenda to remove the speed limit from NH lawbooks."



When I did want people to know what I thought, I wrote the following, which appeared in the GSN just three days before Lake Winnipesaukee's darkest boating tragedy.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Guys...Anyone with any knowledge of deep V hulled speed boats know you need chop to go fast...calm water is slow sticky water!

So you'd be advising someone who's been around amphibious aircraft, EDO floats, flying boats and floatplanes all his life about choppy and calm waters?

Don't make me get out my baby pictures!

Originally Posted by Woodsy

"...Winter harbor is barely 1.5 miles long x 0.5 miles wide.... not nearly enough room for ANY boat (except maybe a top Fuel Hydro) to hit 100 MPH.... (they like calm flat water)..."

They've added a "STOP" sign at the entrance to Winter Harbor?



Actually, that's one of my pet peeves: hearing a scofflaw a full minute before entering Winter Harbor. (Next to switching their Captain's Choice on-and-off-and-on "at speed" in protected waters).

So who approves of the speeds required for barefoot waterskiing in in the calm waters of coves? (Something I''ve never seen).



With all due respect to Moultonborough's "anecdotal statements":

"Loon mortality from watercraft":

[BroadHopper]

APS. What does sailing prams anarchy has to do with this thread?

Perhaps we should start another thread on the othe 60% that are killing the loons such as sail or paddle boats...........................

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by ApS

From winnipesaukee.com's FAQs:

I might upset people if I posted, "The NHMP has a secret agenda to remove the speed limit from NH lawbooks."

Perhaps you would if it were not true.

Remember the sailboat called the "Queen of Winnipesaukee" that operated out of the Weirs? Well, I think we've now discovered the "King of Winnipesaukee" (although self appointed, and actual coronation has yet to be verified)

[fatlazyless]

...funny or at least thought provoking how the Queen of Winnipesaukee 45' sailboat got sold and sailed off to Florida ocean waters.....and ditto that for my neighbor's 27' Skater w/ twin 300-hp outboards, that he promoted as "107-mph gps verified out on the broads," also got sold to Florida ......just u listen to me....see...thissy here boat belongs down in Florida! ....seems like the super-duper of Winni boats all end up in Florida.....boo-hoo-hoo-hoo !!

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by ApS

You'd be shocked at all the unlighted "low-information boaters" out after dark.


• The Broads doesn't have to be rough—the scofflaws prefer the calm waters of coves. Saturday, the usual weekend white Donzi blasted through Winter Harbor mid-morning at speeds approaching 100-MPH!

(Yeah, I know, "Donzis can't go that fast")

• When my family bought here in 1956, it wasn't about the boating so much as living on "Golden Pond". Now that we on Lake Winnipesaukee have learned that 6% of Loon mortality is due to boats—it was time.

(Not including human mortality rates here).

• Just Friday, a Loon surfaced next to me on the dock, and promptly dove "from the danger"—resurfacing only 20-feet further away.

• Loons can dive for two minutes or even much longer. Loons aren't checking for Donzis when they resurface for air—nor are Donzis checking for Loons...

You forgot to mention Canoes, kayaks and sailboats being a much bigger threat to loons than Donzis. From the NHF&G...

"Non-motorized watercrafts, such as canoes and kayaks, have access to shallow water near loon nesting and brood sites, which can lead to nest abandonment. Additionally, canoeists and kayakers are more apt to use remote areas and have a greater ability for stealth. This type of activity is most detrimental during early incubation when egg investment is lowest and the likelihood of nest abandonment is highest. Disturbance from sailboats and windsurfing has not been quantified. Anecdotal and behavioral evidence suggests a sail can be perceived as a visual threat, and therefore has the potential to disrupt nesting and brooding activity, even in areas of high recreational use."

Maybe sailing should be banned during Loon nesting activities???

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

You forgot to mention Canoes, kayaks and sailboats being a much bigger threat to loons than Donzis. From the NHF&G...

"Non-motorized watercrafts, such as canoes and kayaks, have access to shallow water near loon nesting and brood sites, which can lead to nest abandonment. Additionally, canoeists and kayakers are more apt to use remote areas and have a greater ability for stealth. This type of activity is most detrimental during early incubation when egg investment is lowest and the likelihood of nest abandonment is highest. Disturbance from sailboats and windsurfing has not been quantified. Anecdotal and behavioral evidence suggests a sail can be perceived as a visual threat, and therefore has the potential to disrupt nesting and brooding activity, even in areas of high recreational use."

Maybe sailing should be banned during Loon nesting activities???

AMEN! Time to kill the red herrings, not the loons.

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by ApS

You'd be shocked at all the unlighted "low-information boaters" out after dark.


• The Broads doesn't have to be rough—the scofflaws prefer the calm waters of coves. Saturday, the usual weekend white Donzi blasted through Winter Harbor mid-morning at speeds approaching 100-MPH!

(Yeah, I know, "Donzis can't go that fast")

• When my family bought here in 1956, it wasn't about the boating so much as living on "Golden Pond". Now that we on Lake Winnipesaukee have learned that 6% of Loon mortality is due to boats—it was time.

(Not including human mortality rates here).

• Just Friday, a Loon surfaced next to me on the dock, and promptly dove "from the danger"—resurfacing only 20-feet further away.

• Loons can dive for two minutes or even much longer. Loons aren't checking for Donzis when they resurface for air—nor are Donzis checking for Loons...

ApS, I guess I missed the point you are trying to make. My point was I agree with night speed limits, what does a boat light have to do with that?

And only boats over 45mph are a danger to loons? And if a loon is underwater for two minutes as you say, how would a boater at any speed see them? I would hope that boaters of any speed would avoid a bird they could see. Last week I saw a few kids in a small boat tossing what looked like rocks at birds on the water, should we outlaw one of the following:

• Kids?
• Rocks?
• Small Boats?

I hope you don't take this wrong, it was just that the post was on the speed limit and while speed limit items are kept in the corner as it offends people, your reply to my comment seemed to try to add in arguments that had nothing to do with speed itself.

Cheers!

[LIforrelaxin]

Well I read this thread and as someone put out there that 6% of loon deaths are related to boats.... I thought I would find some other statistics...

In Maine over the last 20 years 28% of Adult loon deaths, have been positively identified to be because of lead poising...

Reading another study 40% of loons sent to Tuft Veterinary school in Mass. for analysis have been contributed to Lead poisoning.

--- NH did just pass a law against lead sinkers and jigs....

So now that the issues with Lead fishing tackle have been addressed, why don't we lay off speed limits, give the public a chance to get all the lead fishing tackle out of circulation, and see how the loon population responds.

I don't mean to stir the pot.... but trying to pull Loon conservation concerns into a speed limit discussion, when there are other documented concerns that are more greatly effecting the loon population, .... well enough said.

[topwater]

It's not LEAD...... There are more damn loons around then you can shake a stick at. Go to ANY and I mean ANY lake around and you will see your fair share of LOONS. Loons on the endangered list...please...give me a break. The danger comes from predatory birds,foxes, minks, muskrats,Kayakers, canoeist, stupid kids, jet skies and disease. The Loon people should start protecting GREY SQUIRRELS, because I have seen a lot of dead ones lately in the road. After all LOONS and SQUIRRELS both come from the RODENT FAMILY don't they? LOL