Canoe

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by smokinupthelake

Ingredients
Kosher salt
Vegetable oil
1 pound cavatappi or elbow macaroni
1 quart milk
8 tablespoons (1 stick) unsalted butter, divided
1/2 cup all-purpose flour
12 ounces Gruyere cheese, grated (4 cups)
8 ounces extra-sharp Cheddar, grated (2 cups)
1/2 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper
1/2 teaspoon nutmeg
1 1/2 pounds cooked lobster meat
1 1/2 cups fresh white bread crumbs (5 slices, crusts removed)

serves 6-8 so just about there 24 oz divided by 7 = 3.5 oz lobster

Read more at: http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/i...ml?oc=linkback

OK...I'll bite on that one. Let's look at the math:

The dock price of lobster is about $3.50/pound and lets consider the yield to be about 25% (conservative). We will estimate that there is about $4.00 of lobster in the dish with wholesale markup.

The pasta is about $1.00/lb so the contribution is .14
The milk is about $1.50/qt so the contribution is .21
The cheese is approximately $4.00 (16 oz) so the contribution is .57

Let's say everything else is another .50 (reasonable). Then the total cost of ingredients is $5.42.

Since Canoe prices this dish at $22, the direct margin is 75%

At a 66% direct margin, there is room for about 50% more lobster or a price of about $16 for the dish.

Clearly, Canoe has the right to price their food any way they like. No one is forcing me to eat there...I just think that their pricing is not reflective of the current market conditions. Just my opinion

Jetskier

[ITD]

Originally Posted by jetskier

OK...I'll bite on that one. Let's look at the math:

The dock price of lobster is about $3.50/pound and lets consider the yield to be about 25% (conservative). We will estimate that there is about $4.00 of lobster in the dish with wholesale markup.

The pasta is about $1.00/lb so the contribution is .14
The milk is about $1.50/qt so the contribution is .21
The cheese is approximately $4.00 (16 oz) so the contribution is .57

Let's say everything else is another .50 (reasonable). Then the total cost of ingredients is $5.42.

Since Canoe prices this dish at $22, the direct margin is 75%

At a 66% direct margin, there is room for about 50% more lobster or a price of about $16 for the dish.

Clearly, Canoe has the right to price their food any way they like. No one is forcing me to eat there...I just think that their pricing is not reflective of the current market conditions. Just my opinion

Jetskier

You forgot overhead costs and labor costs, people don't work for free, electricity, water, maintenance, insurance, so on and so on, if you base your prices soley on raw materials cost you will be bankrupt very quickly.....

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by ITD

You forgot overhead costs and labor costs, people don't work for free, electricity, water, maintenance, insurance, so on and so on, if you base your prices soley on raw materials cost you will be bankrupt very quickly.....

Direct margin is the price - cost of goods sold. Profit is defined by direct margin - indirect costs (staffing, rent etc...). What you are describing comes out of the direct margin. I described this correctly.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by jetskier

Direct margin is the price - cost of goods sold. Profit is defined by direct margin - indirect costs (staffing, rent etc...). What you are describing comes out of the direct margin. I described this correctly.

You described cost of goods sold in a way that will bankrupt a business owner. Labor is a part, usually a large part of cost of goods sold. Your model assumes that you take the ingredients at cost and not account for the labor to make the final product. That labor, which at a minimum for what we are talking about here includes, preparation, cooking, plating and serving. You then talk about a margin based on an incomplete cost. You can't just forget about direct labor and call it overhead. No wonder you think it is too expensive.

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by ITD

You described cost of goods sold in a way that will bankrupt a business owner. Labor is a part, usually a large part of cost of goods sold. Your model assumes that you take the ingredients at cost and not account for the labor to make the final product. That labor, which at a minimum for what we are talking about here includes, preparation, cooking, plating and serving. You then talk about a margin based on an incomplete cost. You can't just forget about direct labor and call it overhead. No wonder you think it is too expensive.

If you believe that $22 is a great deal for lobster mac and cheese, by all means patronize this establishment. I believe that it is too expensive for the lakes region as was the minute lobster tail and steak that was cooked to only a few bites. That is my opinion...you are free to have a different one.

Jetskier

[ITD]

Originally Posted by jetskier

If you believe that $22 is a great deal for lobster mac and cheese, by all means patronize this establishment. I believe that it is too expensive for the lakes region as was the minute lobster tail and steak that was cooked to only a few bites. That is my opinion...you are free to have a different one.

Jetskier

Fair enough.

[wilcochef]

Jetskier it is a good thing you do not own a restaurant because you would be out of business in 4 to 5 months. Canoe is not buying whole lobsters and picking them. This is a very time consuming process that most restaurants do not do. They buy Lobster Meat for $16.00 to $25.00 depending if Tail is involved and the time of year. Picked meat does not change price with the whole lobster market. Lakes region restaurants have to pay rent, utilities, labor and other expenses year round. I have worked in restaurants where 4 people came in on a winter night but we still have to pay the bills. Please learn more about the restaurant business before you put down a local restaurant for pricing.

[Pineedles]

As described in an earlier, last year thread, lobster meat is bought and priced according to the amount of "leg" meat it contains. Knucke and claw plays a part, but it's volume of leg meat that really determines the price.

[wilcochef]

I disagree Pineneedles the Lobster meat that we buy does not include leg meat, this is fluff and is used in lower quality shacks and for things such as Lobster Pie and Casseroles

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by wilcochef

I disagree Pineneedles the Lobster meat that we buy does not include leg meat, this is fluff and is used in lower quality shacks and for things such as Lobster Pie and Casseroles

But we can agree! The "amount" of leg meat that you serve is Zero.

[wilcochef]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

But we can agree! The "amount" of leg meat that you serve is Zero.

Yes I will agree with this Fluff belong with Peanut Butter not in Lobster Dishes

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by wilcochef

Jetskier it is a good thing you do not own a restaurant because you would be out of business in 4 to 5 months. Canoe is not buying whole lobsters and picking them. This is a very time consuming process that most restaurants do not do. They buy Lobster Meat for $16.00 to $25.00 depending if Tail is involved and the time of year. Picked meat does not change price with the whole lobster market. Lakes region restaurants have to pay rent, utilities, labor and other expenses year round. I have worked in restaurants where 4 people came in on a winter night but we still have to pay the bills. Please learn more about the restaurant business before you put down a local restaurant for pricing.

OK...then T-Bones is crazy for pricing an 8 oz lobster tail and 8 oz filet at $37. That seems to be about $14 for the tail and probably $7 for the steak. That should certainly put them out of business. Do you want to tell them or shall I?

Basically, what you are telling me is that no one should order a dish with lobster meat when the price of a lobster in the market is at the current low level. It is better to order a lobster.

As for your quip about learning the restaurant business...I don't feel that from a consumer standpoint that the pricing represents a good value. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it. If you want to go pay $22 for lobster mac and cheese or $30 for a tiny lobster tail/steak...hey, go for it! No one is stopping you.

Jetskier

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by jetskier

OK...then T-Bones is crazy for pricing an 8 oz lobster tail and 8 oz filet at $37. That seems to be about $14 for the tail and probably $7 for the steak. That should certainly put them out of business. Do you want to tell them or shall I?

Basically, what you are telling me is that no one should order a dish with lobster meat when the price of a lobster in the market is at the current low level. It is better to order a lobster.

As for your quip about learning the restaurant business...I don't feel that from a consumer standpoint that the pricing represents a good value. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it. If you want to go pay $22 for lobster mac and cheese or $30 for a tiny lobster tail/steak...hey, go for it! No one is stopping you.

Jetskier

I think we all get your point, and we agree that you are entitled to your opinion.
My opinion is that if you think the price of a meal is too high and not a good value, then don't order it.

[wifi]

Can I have the last word ?

[wilcochef]

Originally Posted by jetskier

OK...then T-Bones is crazy for pricing an 8 oz lobster tail and 8 oz filet at $37. That seems to be about $14 for the tail and probably $7 for the steak. That should certainly put them out of business. Do you want to tell them or shall I?

Basically, what you are telling me is that no one should order a dish with lobster meat when the price of a lobster in the market is at the current low level. It is better to order a lobster.

As for your quip about learning the restaurant business...I don't feel that from a consumer standpoint that the pricing represents a good value. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it. If you want to go pay $22 for lobster mac and cheese or $30 for a tiny lobster tail/steak...hey, go for it! No one is stopping you.

Jetskier

You are certainly entitled to your opinion as I am mine as for my "quip" I feel I am a little more qualified than you when it comes to food cost and pricing! I am sure that there are things that you are far more qualified then me in as well. T-Bones is a local chain so they have the luxury operating as a entity where the bottom line is provided by different locations, including locations that are not as seasonal as the Lakes region.

[baygo]

Originally Posted by jetskier

OK...I'll bite on that one. Let's look at the math:

The dock price of lobster is about $3.50/pound and lets consider the yield to be about 25% (conservative). We will estimate that there is about $4.00 of lobster in the dish with wholesale markup.

The pasta is about $1.00/lb so the contribution is .14
The milk is about $1.50/qt so the contribution is .21
The cheese is approximately $4.00 (16 oz) so the contribution is .57

Let's say everything else is another .50 (reasonable). Then the total cost of ingredients is $5.42.

Since Canoe prices this dish at $22, the direct margin is 75%

At a 66% direct margin, there is room for about 50% more lobster or a price of about $16 for the dish.

Clearly, Canoe has the right to price their food any way they like. No one is forcing me to eat there...I just think that their pricing is not reflective of the current market conditions. Just my opinion

Jetskier

Please tell me where you are shopping and guarantee me the quality that I assume CanoeI insists upon.

I'm paying $21 per pound for knuckle and Claw Lobster. $12 Per Pound for a high quality Grafton County cheddar cheese. $10 per pound for Gruyere cheese.

Chain restaurants are often content to use GMO product and can buy for less.

The rest of your numbers are close enough for government work. Of course government does not have to turn a profit.

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by baygo

Please tell me where you are shopping and guarantee me the quality that I assume CanoeI insists upon.

I'm paying $21 per pound for knuckle and Claw Lobster. $12 Per Pound for a high quality Grafton County cheddar cheese. $10 per pound for Gruyere cheese.

Chain restaurants are often content to use GMO product and can buy for less.

The rest of your numbers are close enough for government work. Of course government does not have to turn a profit.

Here are the wholesale NEFSC prices for lobster for the spot this week:

http://nefsc.noaa.gov/read/socialsci...er/lobster.txt

I seriously doubt that Canoe is paying the prices that you are (for cheese or lobster)...I am not surprised that Tavern 57 does, but you are playing in the high end market for the area. If Canoe wants to tell us what they pay...great. Otherwise we are all speculating and I think that they are high especially when T-Bones can offer 2x for $7 more. I have not found a definitive quality difference between the two restaurants and the dining experience is comparable.

Just my 2 cents

Jetskier