Donzi Poker Run violating the law

Bonnie W · 07-28-2013, 05:08 PM

BI and concerned others..... Not that I feel I need to post this but I would like to explain. First off, I was in the helicopter taking photos. There was no videos of this run taken except by spectators that I saw and a few go pros on some of the boats. And a still shot of a boat in a NWZ will not really prove that someone violated the NWZ not with that many boats going through one area. What apparently happened according to the anchor DONZI was that when my husband (the organizer & lead boat) went through The BI NWZ he idled out and quite a bit more and then took off. When he did that boats coming out of the NWZ did the same causing quite the wake in the NWZ and some boats did violate the NWZ as they were getting swamped.

As for the pictures you are looking for as proof, we are still in the process of touching them up and sorting them out to sell to boat owners for the sole purpose of paying for the helicopter. The pictures will be up soon on the lake Winnipesaukee DONZI Facebook page. Feel free to look at them and if you recognize the violator(s) I will personally speak to them.

This run was not planned to directly cause you stress, but rather get a bunch of boats, both performance and family boats to have fun seeing the lake and getting a nice picture of their boat. We have always been respectful of the lake and of others as it is our lake too. We had DONZI boats from all over New England as well as PA, DE, & NC. We try to hit as much of the lake as possible to show off our lake.

To address another concern/comment someone made, yes, marine patrol was notified about the event and they were either at or near every stop that we made. This is a condition to the permit.

Again, we did not mean to show disrespect to anyone.

In this same post I would like to thank everyone who participated and supported the run. As always we had a blast. I believe for the first time ever, we ended with more boats then we started with. It was great to see the family boat with the tube tied to its engine hatch join us. Again thank you all. Pictures will be up soon I will post when they are up.

Regards
George and Bonnie

classic22 · 07-28-2013, 05:38 PM

I was there in the run...maybe towards the front of the pack, and I can tell you we were as well as the boats around us were respecting the NWZ as well as all no wake zones we encountered. I can not vouch for all participants, how ever its up to all participants to adhere to the rules, and if they dont, they are individually responsible for there own actions, and has nothing to do with the event itself. Complain all you want to marine patrol, it has nothing to do with the event itself.

Seaplane Pilot · 07-28-2013, 06:11 PM

Just a simple case of the elitists having another temper tantrum because they have not succeeded in scrubbing the lake of performance boats. If this had been a Four Winns Poker Run, there would have been no sabre rattling to speak of. That's all - case closed.

NoBozo · 07-28-2013, 07:18 PM

I have experience with Helicopter (Photo) Flyovers on Naragansett Bay a few years ago. I have a Donzi. There was a flyover but I was unaware that the helo was "interested" in ME.

Maybe three months later I got a letter in the mail stating they had photos of my boat and would like to sell them to me. OK: FINE. IF I were to agree to BUY the photos they had of me...The fee was about a $125 each pic. They DID Not offer to SHOW me the photos.

Here was the Catch. THEY would Still OWN the copyright. Even though I payed them..I did NOT OWN the picture...and I therefore could not Copy, Transmit..Print..or Save.. the picture.. .yada yada.

NB

Bonnie W · 07-28-2013, 08:31 PM

Sorry to hear about your experience with your flyby. We have no intentions of charging that much money for pictures. We took between 6-10 pictures of every boat that was in or near our pack. We are selling all the digital images to the boat owners. They can do whatever they please with them. We do not know how much we are going to charge but I can assure you it will not be even close to what your were quoted. Thanks for the post and I hope this puts my groups minds and pocketbooks to ease.

Bear Islander · 08-03-2013, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonnie W

...When he did that boats coming out of the NWZ did the same causing quite the wake in the NWZ and some boats did violate the NWZ...

So much for the repeated claim that no boats violated the NWZ.

VitaBene · 08-03-2013, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

So much for the repeated claim that no boats violated the NWZ.

Please have the decency to at least post the entire quote and explanation from Bonnie W as opposed to parsing and taking it out of context.

"What apparently happened according to the anchor DONZI was that when my husband (the organizer & lead boat) went through The BI NWZ he idled out and quite a bit more and then took off. When he did that boats coming out of the NWZ did the same causing quite the wake in the NWZ and some boats did violate the NWZ as they were getting swamped."

There is a BIG difference and you know it.

You are involved with some pretty big events at the Hatch Shell- do you think that all the attendees are well behaved and don't irritate the neighbors as they come, go and partake in the events? Permits and a police presence allow your group to break many laws- fireworks, noise, etc.

This group had a permit and a LEO presence and by all accounts, yours excepted, enjoyed the day and had fun. Last time I checked that is what life is all about.

If you can't deal with a few minutes of inconvenience when the Donzi Poker run comes by Bear, that is too bad- and really kind of sad.

classic22 · 08-03-2013, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Please have the decency to at least post the entire quote and explanation from Bonnie W as opposed to parsing and taking it out of context.

"What apparently happened according to the anchor DONZI was that when my husband (the organizer & lead boat) went through The BI NWZ he idled out and quite a bit more and then took off. When he did that boats coming out of the NWZ did the same causing quite the wake in the NWZ and some boats did violate the NWZ as they were getting swamped."

There is a BIG difference and you know it.

You are involved with some pretty big events at the Hatch Shell- do you think that all the attendees are well behaved and don't irritate the neighbors as they come, go and partake in the events? Permits and a police presence allow your group to break many laws- fireworks, noise, etc.

This group had a permit and a LEO presence and by all accounts, yours excepted, enjoyed the day and had fun. Last time I checked that is what life is all about.

If you can't deal with a few minutes of inconvenience when the Donzi Poker run comes by Bear, that is too bad- and really kind of sad.

Nice job summarizing! and to add the donzi poker run did not violate any laws.

Bear Islander · 08-04-2013, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classic22

Nice job summarizing! and to add the donzi poker run did not violate any laws.

I really don't understand how you can think the poker run did not violate the NWZ. Did you not read the post by the organizers that admitted that "some boats did violate the NWZ".

The idea that boats might have been swamped changes nothing. Read the law and tell me where is says anything like that. I have watched the Marine Patrol stop boats going fast through the NWZ during a bad thunderstorm. And if you check with the MP you will find that poker runs get no dispensation from NWZ laws.

That "I can go fast through the NWZ because there is a storm coming" idea is a common misconception. You can't!

NH_boater · 08-04-2013, 08:57 PM

As a matter of priorities, most boaters would probably choose to rush through a NWZ if there is a lightening storm bearing down on their family. Equally, I would expect that some land owners along NWZ's would understand.

Bear Islander · 08-04-2013, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NH_boater

As a matter of priorities, most boaters would probably choose to rush through a NWZ if there is a lightening storm bearing down on their family. Equally, I would expect that some land owners along NWZ's would understand.

I have no problem with someone rushing home when a storm is coming. And I doubt if my neighbors have a problem with it either. However I have talked to the Marine Patrol about this very subject and they have a different view.

Then again would you go through the Weirs Channel at speed if a storm was coming? Who gets to decide which NWZ must observed, and which can be ignored when not convenient.

BroadHopper · 08-04-2013, 09:41 PM

I posted earlier that early in July there was a severe thunderstorm alert in Meredith and when the storm appeared as many as 50 boats left the public docks and headed WOT through the NWZ. There was a patrol boat in the NWZ near the docks and he didn't do anything about it. I and another boater waited the storm out and left later. Why didn't the patrol boat put on his lights and sirens?

jrc · 08-04-2013, 11:16 PM

Maybe we should be asking just why there is a no wake zone there in the first place? I mean 150' from shore is the standard rule so why isn't that good enough?

The mail boat docks just fine at the Weirs without a special no wake zone. There are plenty on narrower passages without no wake zones. I'll have to get out my tape measure but it looks like there's plenty of room to safely travel between Bear and Pine without being 150' from either.

How many signatures do I need to petition for it's removal? I mean I'd agree to leave it there it there was a demonstrated need for one. Removing the zone would free up people from guarding it to watch the real danger areas on the lake.

Woodsy · 08-05-2013, 07:49 AM

The NWZ that's off Bear Island is there for safety reasons..... its blind corner of sorts and narrows down a bit because of the underwater hazard. While I am not a fan of this particular NWZ, I do understand why its there...

I just usually avoid that area all together... Its way more fun to drive between Mark Is & Bear Is or Mark Is and Timber IS when I am heading to that side of the lake from the Weirs.

I have seen people blow thru the Weirs Channel when there is a storm.... if safety wasn't an issue I would rather they go thru on plane instead of pushing a tom of water with their noses high all panicked because of some thunder & lightning.... I think the MP gives some leeway when people are rushing about due to a storm....

Woodsy

RTTOOL · 08-05-2013, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I have no problem with someone rushing home when a storm is coming. And I doubt if my neighbors have a problem with it either. However I have talked to the Marine Patrol about this very subject and they have a different view.

Then again would you go through the Weirs Channel at speed if a storm was coming? Who gets to decide which NWZ must observed, and which can be ignored when not convenient.

what would you do in the weirs channel with the water run the way it is you
can't help it but too make a wave or the boat goes back wards.

classic22 · 08-05-2013, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I really don't understand how you can think the poker run did not violate the NWZ. Did you not read the post by the organizers that admitted that "some boats did violate the NWZ".

The idea that boats might have been swamped changes nothing. Read the law and tell me where is says anything like that. I have watched the Marine Patrol stop boats going fast through the NWZ during a bad thunderstorm. And if you check with the MP you will find that poker runs get no dispensation from NWZ laws.

That "I can go fast through the NWZ because there is a storm coming" idea is a common misconception. You can't!

The poker run violated no laws or rules. "If" a boat that happened to be participating in the poker run violated a rule or a law, they individually are responsible for their own actions. Its very simple really.

LIforrelaxin · 08-05-2013, 03:00 PM

As I read this thread, I continue to think about one thing.... SAFETY..... Now I have been in more then a few No Wake Areas around the lake, and had to throttle up, to prevent swamping...

If I read this thread correctly there are those that believe that no matter what the NWZ should be obeyed. So I guess I should let me boat get swamped next time.......

There are times where safety must override everything else...

WinniFountain · 08-05-2013, 08:43 PM

Bonnie.....when will the pictures be ready to view from the Poker Run?

classic22 · 08-05-2013, 09:01 PM

they are on the lake winni donzi club facebook page

WinniFountain · 08-05-2013, 09:58 PM

Any way to see the pictures if I don't have a Facebook account?

Webbsatwinni · 08-03-2013, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Please have the decency to at least post the entire quote and explanation from Bonnie W as opposed to parsing and taking it out of context.

"What apparently happened according to the anchor DONZI was that when my husband (the organizer & lead boat) went through The BI NWZ he idled out and quite a bit more and then took off. When he did that boats coming out of the NWZ did the same causing quite the wake in the NWZ and some boats did violate the NWZ as they were getting swamped."

There is a BIG difference and you know it.

You are involved with some pretty big events at the Hatch Shell- do you think that all the attendees are well behaved and don't irritate the neighbors as they come, go and partake in the events? Permits and a police presence allow your group to break many laws- fireworks, noise, etc.

This group had a permit and a LEO presence and by all accounts, yours excepted, enjoyed the day and had fun. Last time I checked that is what life is all about.

If you can't deal with a few minutes of inconvenience when the Donzi Poker run comes by Bear, that is too bad- and really kind of sad.

Great reply, I am glad most people enjoy the lake in thier own way and allow others to as well.

Seaplane Pilot · 08-04-2013, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Please have the decency to at least post the entire quote and explanation from Bonnie W as opposed to parsing and taking it out of context.

"What apparently happened according to the anchor DONZI was that when my husband (the organizer & lead boat) went through The BI NWZ he idled out and quite a bit more and then took off. When he did that boats coming out of the NWZ did the same causing quite the wake in the NWZ and some boats did violate the NWZ as they were getting swamped."

There is a BIG difference and you know it.

You are involved with some pretty big events at the Hatch Shell- do you think that all the attendees are well behaved and don't irritate the neighbors as they come, go and partake in the events? Permits and a police presence allow your group to break many laws- fireworks, noise, etc.

This group had a permit and a LEO presence and by all accounts, yours excepted, enjoyed the day and had fun. Last time I checked that is what life is all about.

If you can't deal with a few minutes of inconvenience when the Donzi Poker run comes by Bear, that is too bad- and really kind of sad.

Do as I say, not as I do.

07-28-2013, 05:08 PM	#1
Bonnie W Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 5 Thanks: 2 Thanked 10 Times in 2 Posts	My Apologies BI and concerned others..... Not that I feel I need to post this but I would like to explain. First off, I was in the helicopter taking photos. There was no videos of this run taken except by spectators that I saw and a few go pros on some of the boats. And a still shot of a boat in a NWZ will not really prove that someone violated the NWZ not with that many boats going through one area. What apparently happened according to the anchor DONZI was that when my husband (the organizer & lead boat) went through The BI NWZ he idled out and quite a bit more and then took off. When he did that boats coming out of the NWZ did the same causing quite the wake in the NWZ and some boats did violate the NWZ as they were getting swamped. As for the pictures you are looking for as proof, we are still in the process of touching them up and sorting them out to sell to boat owners for the sole purpose of paying for the helicopter. The pictures will be up soon on the lake Winnipesaukee DONZI Facebook page. Feel free to look at them and if you recognize the violator(s) I will personally speak to them. This run was not planned to directly cause you stress, but rather get a bunch of boats, both performance and family boats to have fun seeing the lake and getting a nice picture of their boat. We have always been respectful of the lake and of others as it is our lake too. We had DONZI boats from all over New England as well as PA, DE, & NC. We try to hit as much of the lake as possible to show off our lake. To address another concern/comment someone made, yes, marine patrol was notified about the event and they were either at or near every stop that we made. This is a condition to the permit. Again, we did not mean to show disrespect to anyone. In this same post I would like to thank everyone who participated and supported the run. As always we had a blast. I believe for the first time ever, we ended with more boats then we started with. It was great to see the family boat with the tube tied to its engine hatch join us. Again thank you all. Pictures will be up soon I will post when they are up. Regards George and Bonnie

07-28-2013, 05:38 PM	#2
classic22 Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 40 Thanks: 6 Thanked 81 Times in 13 Posts	donzi poker run I was there in the run...maybe towards the front of the pack, and I can tell you we were as well as the boats around us were respecting the NWZ as well as all no wake zones we encountered. I can not vouch for all participants, how ever its up to all participants to adhere to the rules, and if they dont, they are individually responsible for there own actions, and has nothing to do with the event itself. Complain all you want to marine patrol, it has nothing to do with the event itself.

07-28-2013, 06:11 PM	#3
Seaplane Pilot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,177 Thanks: 664 Thanked 943 Times in 368 Posts	Just a simple case of the elitists having another temper tantrum because they have not succeeded in scrubbing the lake of performance boats. If this had been a Four Winns Poker Run, there would have been no sabre rattling to speak of. That's all - case closed. Last edited by Seaplane Pilot; 07-29-2013 at 11:01 AM.

07-28-2013, 07:18 PM	#4
NoBozo Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Portsmouth. RI Posts: 2,231 Thanks: 400 Thanked 460 Times in 308 Posts	Helicopter Flyovers I have experience with Helicopter (Photo) Flyovers on Naragansett Bay a few years ago. I have a Donzi. There was a flyover but I was unaware that the helo was "interested" in ME. Maybe three months later I got a letter in the mail stating they had photos of my boat and would like to sell them to me. OK: FINE. IF I were to agree to BUY the photos they had of me...The fee was about a $125 each pic. They DID Not offer to SHOW me the photos. Here was the Catch. THEY would Still OWN the copyright. Even though I payed them..I did NOT OWN the picture...and I therefore could not Copy, Transmit..Print..or Save.. the picture.. .yada yada. NB Last edited by NoBozo; 07-28-2013 at 07:52 PM.

08-04-2013, 09:41 PM	#12
BroadHopper Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 5,614 Thanks: 3,245 Thanked 1,115 Times in 801 Posts	What is the Marine patrol perspective? I posted earlier that early in July there was a severe thunderstorm alert in Meredith and when the storm appeared as many as 50 boats left the public docks and headed WOT through the NWZ. There was a patrol boat in the NWZ near the docks and he didn't do anything about it. I and another boater waited the storm out and left later. Why didn't the patrol boat put on his lights and sirens? __________________ Someday may never be an actual day.

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Bonnie W For This Useful Post:
hig (07-28-2013), NHBUOY (07-29-2013), Webbsatwinni (07-28-2013)

The Following User Says Thank You to Seaplane Pilot For This Useful Post:
Webbsatwinni (07-28-2013)

07-28-2013, 08:31 PM	#5
Bonnie W Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 5 Thanks: 2 Thanked 10 Times in 2 Posts	Sorry to hear about your experience with your flyby. We have no intentions of charging that much money for pictures. We took between 6-10 pictures of every boat that was in or near our pack. We are selling all the digital images to the boat owners. They can do whatever they please with them. We do not know how much we are going to charge but I can assure you it will not be even close to what your were quoted. Thanks for the post and I hope this puts my groups minds and pocketbooks to ease.

The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to VitaBene For This Useful Post:
BroadHopper (08-04-2013), ishoot308 (08-03-2013), LIforrelaxin (08-05-2013), NHBUOY (08-03-2013), NoBozo (08-04-2013), Pineedles (08-05-2013), SAMIAM (08-04-2013), Shreddy (08-05-2013), Webbsatwinni (08-03-2013)

08-04-2013, 08:57 PM	#10
NH_boater Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 298 Thanks: 14 Thanked 147 Times in 62 Posts	As a matter of priorities, most boaters would probably choose to rush through a NWZ if there is a lightening storm bearing down on their family. Equally, I would expect that some land owners along NWZ's would understand.

08-04-2013, 11:16 PM	#13
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	Maybe we should be asking just why there is a no wake zone there in the first place? I mean 150' from shore is the standard rule so why isn't that good enough? The mail boat docks just fine at the Weirs without a special no wake zone. There are plenty on narrower passages without no wake zones. I'll have to get out my tape measure but it looks like there's plenty of room to safely travel between Bear and Pine without being 150' from either. How many signatures do I need to petition for it's removal? I mean I'd agree to leave it there it there was a demonstrated need for one. Removing the zone would free up people from guarding it to watch the real danger areas on the lake.

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to jrc For This Useful Post:
NHBUOY (08-05-2013), RTTOOL (08-05-2013), Webbsatwinni (08-05-2013)

08-05-2013, 07:49 AM	#14
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,968 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	The NWZ that's off Bear Island is there for safety reasons..... its blind corner of sorts and narrows down a bit because of the underwater hazard. While I am not a fan of this particular NWZ, I do understand why its there... I just usually avoid that area all together... Its way more fun to drive between Mark Is & Bear Is or Mark Is and Timber IS when I am heading to that side of the lake from the Weirs. I have seen people blow thru the Weirs Channel when there is a storm.... if safety wasn't an issue I would rather they go thru on plane instead of pushing a tom of water with their noses high all panicked because of some thunder & lightning.... I think the MP gives some leeway when people are rushing about due to a storm.... Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to classic22 For This Useful Post:
Dave R (08-05-2013), hazelnut (08-06-2013), LIforrelaxin (08-05-2013)

08-05-2013, 03:00 PM	#17
LIforrelaxin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas, Lake Ray Hubbard and NH, Long Island Winnipesaukee Posts: 2,918 Thanks: 1,050 Thanked 900 Times in 530 Posts	As I read this thread, I continue to think about one thing.... SAFETY..... Now I have been in more then a few No Wake Areas around the lake, and had to throttle up, to prevent swamping... If I read this thread correctly there are those that believe that no matter what the NWZ should be obeyed. So I guess I should let me boat get swamped next time....... There are times where safety must override everything else... __________________ Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to LIforrelaxin For This Useful Post:
BroadHopper (08-05-2013), VitaBene (08-05-2013), Webbsatwinni (08-05-2013)

08-05-2013, 08:43 PM	#18
WinniFountain Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	When will the pictures be ready to view..... Bonnie.....when will the pictures be ready to view from the Poker Run?

08-05-2013, 09:01 PM	#19
classic22 Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 40 Thanks: 6 Thanked 81 Times in 13 Posts	pictures they are on the lake winni donzi club facebook page

08-05-2013, 09:58 PM	#20
WinniFountain Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Pictures... Any way to see the pictures if I don't have a Facebook account?